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MORE 224 VALK
- Thread starter jLorenzo
- Start date
I would be interesting in know more of the tech specs i.e. stock, action, barrel, overall weight...
@Lowlight ........ In response to your rhetorical question in the podcast of 260 - 6.5 CM - 6.5x47 and do we need 3?
because F!ck you thats why. thats what i say to people who just cant shut up. jesus, haters gonna hate.
Like you said, its just another tool.
because F!ck you thats why. thats what i say to people who just cant shut up. jesus, haters gonna hate.
Like you said, its just another tool.
Here are the spec's on Brian's MHSA Bolt Action
It’s a JP prototype chassis (production version coming soon) NF ATACR F1 5-25 Tremor 3 reticle, Zermatt Arms Bighorn Origin Action, Jewel trigger, Bartlein 1/7 Rem Varmint 26inch, Thunderbeast 223 ultra 7, Badger one piece rings, CPRifle sling. Mile High did the Gunsmithing and used their reamer, the rifle always shoots 1/4 to 3/8 MOA,
It’s a JP prototype chassis (production version coming soon) NF ATACR F1 5-25 Tremor 3 reticle, Zermatt Arms Bighorn Origin Action, Jewel trigger, Bartlein 1/7 Rem Varmint 26inch, Thunderbeast 223 ultra 7, Badger one piece rings, CPRifle sling. Mile High did the Gunsmithing and used their reamer, the rifle always shoots 1/4 to 3/8 MOA,
Quick questions: .224 Valk is based off of 6.8 spc case right?
Why did they choose that parent cartridge instead of the (my opinion) better Grendel case?
Are we going to see the .224 Predator/Grendel become SAAMI certified and another bias war between .224 Valk and .224 Pred?
I ask because I have a 6.5 Grendel and I'd rather not have to buy a whole new bolt to run .224 Valk.
Be Biased! - Lowlight
Why did they choose that parent cartridge instead of the (my opinion) better Grendel case?
Are we going to see the .224 Predator/Grendel become SAAMI certified and another bias war between .224 Valk and .224 Pred?
I ask because I have a 6.5 Grendel and I'd rather not have to buy a whole new bolt to run .224 Valk.
Be Biased! - Lowlight
I wonder if its a coincidence that the army is moving to 6.8 SPC, Perhaps we will now see SAPR's chambered in 224 valk on the frontlines.
After to listening to franks thoughts on the valk an seeing the video I got a bit interested this looks like a good bit cheaper to run then my 6.5x47l. I do question @Lowlight barrel life claims of 5000-6000 I realise you stated someone who is at 5000 rounds still shooting well but I think we need more from bolt gun users to be sure.
The guys who have been shooting fast twist 223 with 90g vld in f class for many years over on 6mmBR are usually reporting more like 2500-3000 round barrel life. The valk has a slightly bigger case than the 223 although with the sharper shoulder and longer neck but I don't know how much extra barrel life that will give. Now frank might be talking more about using factory loaded down ammo but for those looking to handload at full pressure I'm not so sure. The f class guys most likely push things to the absolute limit as well which may be why the low numbers.
The guys who have been shooting fast twist 223 with 90g vld in f class for many years over on 6mmBR are usually reporting more like 2500-3000 round barrel life. The valk has a slightly bigger case than the 223 although with the sharper shoulder and longer neck but I don't know how much extra barrel life that will give. Now frank might be talking more about using factory loaded down ammo but for those looking to handload at full pressure I'm not so sure. The f class guys most likely push things to the absolute limit as well which may be why the low numbers.
The actual number should be closer to 8000 rounds of barrel life, and 6000 is being very conservative.
If you push every round to 3100fps out of a bolt gun you will reduce it somewhat, but where will depend on the barrel more than anything.
I would suspect even pushed hard 6000 rounds is doable based on what we are seeing
If you push every round to 3100fps out of a bolt gun you will reduce it somewhat, but where will depend on the barrel more than anything.
I would suspect even pushed hard 6000 rounds is doable based on what we are seeing
Are people seeing good accuracy nodes out to distance without pushing the bullet too hard? I'm more intrigued with the prospect of a cartridge with velocities of 2700-2900 fps with greater barrel life than 3000+ fps with a shorter barrel life.
It really seems like a great choice for those of us who want to shoot more but dont want the cost per round of a .308 but would like the barrel life. + some added capabilities.
The fact that 1lb of powder can get you 280~ loads is what's selling my wife on the idea, I'd just like to get more trigger time and be able to go to local comps. I'll probably start out with a cheaper barrel and see if I like the caliber. Great podcasts guys!
The fact that 1lb of powder can get you 280~ loads is what's selling my wife on the idea, I'd just like to get more trigger time and be able to go to local comps. I'll probably start out with a cheaper barrel and see if I like the caliber. Great podcasts guys!
I think I may have to give mile high a call and get one those bartlein barrels spun up in .224 v for my origin action.
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I have an Impact Valkyrie bolt on the way. Going to be shooting this thing at least 500 rnds/month.
By middle to end of next year, will have quite a bit of data on it (not that I don’t believe Frank).
By middle to end of next year, will have quite a bit of data on it (not that I don’t believe Frank).
So Frank has really got me interested in a 224...now just to play devil's advocate, etc I started to wonder what the big differences between the 224V and a 22BR would be? Thoughts? I'm sure barrel life isn't close to 6k with the 22BR, but would it be reasonable (3k+)? The little looking I did shows only about a 2-4gr charge weight difference between the 2. With the long neck of the BR and an appropriate reamer spec, I would think being able to get varmint and the heavier 70-80gr bullets to shoot well out of it would be pretty easy (then I don't need to order a new bolt face lol)
I think components would be easier and cheaper to find with the 224, I hate to be the factory ammo guy but it really does make a difference in these small centerfire rifles. I'd kinda like one gun that I dont have to chase brass with. Still would be interesting to see the real world numbers side by side. Maybe I'll do some looking.
It’s pretth easy,
Valkyrie has factory ammo availability with 88/90gr bullets combined with a 5k+ barrel life, low recoil, and high BC. Nothing out there in the same class currently offers this.
Comparing it to any type of round that requires loading is a waste of time.
Just not enough powder in a .223 case. Really loses its edge. The fact that a .22 cal bullet can make it out to 2112 yards is enough said for me. The .223 is really stretching it at 1k.
Loaded to the same overall length if it were doable without having the full diameter of the bullet below the case mouth the 223 would be an anemic round compared to the 224V.
A .223 AI would be close speed wise, but no factory ammo. The .224V beats the 22BR in barrel longevity for sure. The factory ammo advantage argument does not hold any weight to me, anyone wanting to get the most out of any cartridge is going to reload and fine tune. In the 22br you can get 3000 ftps with 88 gr eldms pretty easy with a 24” + barrel.
So where are we headed with barrel contours? I guess we have to decide if this is our trainer for another rifle or if this is our main squeeze. But what would be the minimum for long strings of fire? Not producing much heat, I would imagine a lighter barrel would be doable. I guess these 223 guys probably have it figured out eh?
Unless you feel like your comp gun is too heavy and the only reason you keep it that heavy is recoil reduction, I’d just keep it all the same.
The bolt gun I’m building will be heavy Palma/m24 depending on which one is available and 26” finished length. Just like my 6creed and .223.
For me, this won’t be a complete trainer. It will serve purpose as a trainer as well as medium range comps.
The bolt gun I’m building will be heavy Palma/m24 depending on which one is available and 26” finished length. Just like my 6creed and .223.
For me, this won’t be a complete trainer. It will serve purpose as a trainer as well as medium range comps.
Since we are no longer staying within the confines of an AR mag and it's restriction I don't see much reasononing to say the 223AI would be a close comparison to 224V other than bullet diameter. I have never heard of anyone making consistent hits beyond 2000 yards with a 223AI but wouldn't doubt that it would be possible.
If the same principles are applied to the 224V as the 223AI for bolt gun use freeing up case capacity by seating bullets out further and a longer freebore the gap just widens. Since the 223AI is an improved design then why not improve on the 224V design and just use a 68spc case necked down to .224" (5.56x42) and not shorten the the case since AR mags are no longer in the equation and give it a little more capacity for bolt gun use. Either way they are no longer factory loads so no need to hinder either for full performance available.
The primal rights 6 BR mag conversion kits work, Ultimate Reloader on the you tube has a video on it. That is if you don't mind messing with feed lips.
I have a 22 brx that I run 95 smk out of, now I am pushing them at 3200fps and run a 27" tube. I also have built a 22 grendel and 224 valk..... I am kinda. 22 cal fan boy. I love the grendel over the valk for speed in an ar BUT I shoot a valk now because of factory options.... in a bolt gun I would only pick the grendel or valk over the 22 brx if I didnt reload. With the brx I can run 75elds at 3050 for practice and then toss in my 95smks at 3200 for a match.....
Well, reamer and bolt are here for the Valkyrie bolt build.
Any objections to a 1:7 barrel for 88 and 90gr?
Seems like most haven’t had a problem with 1:7 and it’s easier to find than 1:6.5.
Any objections to a 1:7 barrel for 88 and 90gr?
Seems like most haven’t had a problem with 1:7 and it’s easier to find than 1:6.5.
Need some help on a barrel decision between a Wilson Combat and jp enterprise. I currently have a Wilson Combat super sniper in 223 wylde. It shots good so I'm looking at just swapping barrels with a Wilson's 224 valkyrie. This is my question what different effects does gas systems lenght play on performance and reliability? The Willson is 22" 6.5 twist with a rifle length gas. The jp is 22" 7 twist with a rifle +2 gas system.
I'm kinda curious about the ARC mags, theres a functioning video that Josh at PVA made running 6br and dasher just fine with out any modifications/spacers. I'd imagine it wouldn't be too hard to bend those lips a little.
That being said there is a thread where guys are having troubles with their ARC mags. I guess time will tell what the best solution will be.
There’s gotta be somebody getting ready to release a ready to go Valkyrie mag around shot show.
Okay... I'm curious here, honestly not trying to stir trouble, so please, be gentle with me 
6000 to 8000 rounds of *accurate* barrel life?
How exactly does that work?
I'd call B.S. on that from a .223 Rem shooting heavies (75+ gn). Maybe, *maybe* with 50-55gn and for general purpose blasting / hunting.
With more powder and heavier bullets going faster... I just don't get how that works.
I'm not saying its not possible, and it may be entirely a matter of perspective; I shoot a lot of F-class - F/TR specifically - and it's pretty common to pull a match barrel @ 2500-3500 rds *max* because accuracy is starting to degrade beyond acceptable limits. 6-8k out of a little hot-rod like the Valkyrie is tough to imagine
That said... if it really does go that long - or even half that long - with good accuracy... I may have to get one to play with, just to see!
6000 to 8000 rounds of *accurate* barrel life?
How exactly does that work?
I'd call B.S. on that from a .223 Rem shooting heavies (75+ gn). Maybe, *maybe* with 50-55gn and for general purpose blasting / hunting.
With more powder and heavier bullets going faster... I just don't get how that works.
I'm not saying its not possible, and it may be entirely a matter of perspective; I shoot a lot of F-class - F/TR specifically - and it's pretty common to pull a match barrel @ 2500-3500 rds *max* because accuracy is starting to degrade beyond acceptable limits. 6-8k out of a little hot-rod like the Valkyrie is tough to imagine
That said... if it really does go that long - or even half that long - with good accuracy... I may have to get one to play with, just to see!
I already posted the borescope images from a JP 224 Valk Barrel with 6000+ rounds
I dont; get it is your hang up, not the rounds
I dont; get it is your hang up, not the rounds
See, that’s the thing. .224 is not a hot rod. It is sending the heavies out there at relatively sedate speeds of 2550-2750 FPS. By design, it is using almost the same charges as .223 is, but the cartridge design allows the room for the heavies to be shot in the small frame AR platform within the confines of AR mags. It is not a high pressure nor high speed nor overbore cartridge.
I will bet that some will try to hot rod it, in fact that’s pretty much guaranteed, human nature being what it is. Those people will pay with less barrel life. Other factors will also affect real barrel life. So you can expect that pretty soon there will be those pointing out that they only got 2500 or 3000 rounds of “accurate” barrel life and castigating those that said they did much better. This happens over and over with almost all of the other cartridges, so we shouldn’t expect different for this one.
I have gotten well over 3000 rounds through my .260 barrels every time. Once over 4400 rounds of sub MOA rounds. I probably could have had more, but they get used hard in matches, so rate of fire factors in. Ask most others shooting .260 or 6.5 Creedmoor and they’ll tell you that decent barrel life is only 2500-3000 for 6.5. I wouldn’t argue, because there are so many factors affecting barrel life.
I will bet that some will try to hot rod it, in fact that’s pretty much guaranteed, human nature being what it is. Those people will pay with less barrel life. Other factors will also affect real barrel life. So you can expect that pretty soon there will be those pointing out that they only got 2500 or 3000 rounds of “accurate” barrel life and castigating those that said they did much better. This happens over and over with almost all of the other cartridges, so we shouldn’t expect different for this one.
I have gotten well over 3000 rounds through my .260 barrels every time. Once over 4400 rounds of sub MOA rounds. I probably could have had more, but they get used hard in matches, so rate of fire factors in. Ask most others shooting .260 or 6.5 Creedmoor and they’ll tell you that decent barrel life is only 2500-3000 for 6.5. I wouldn’t argue, because there are so many factors affecting barrel life.
Sorry Frank, must have missed that along the way. I'll go look for 'em
So... a site-wide ('everything') search shows exactly two items involving @Lowlight and 'borescope'... this thread, and one a couple weeks ago saying you were waiting on some images of the JP barrel.
I'm not finding the actual pics, though. Where should I be looking?
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Okay... I'm curious here, honestly not trying to stir trouble, so please, be gentle with me
6000 to 8000 rounds of *accurate* barrel life?
How exactly does that work?
I'd call B.S. on that from a .223 Rem shooting heavies (75+ gn). Maybe, *maybe* with 50-55gn and for general purpose blasting / hunting.
With more powder and heavier bullets going faster... I just don't get how that works.
I'm not saying its not possible, and it may be entirely a matter of perspective; I shoot a lot of F-class - F/TR specifically - and it's pretty common to pull a match barrel @ 2500-3500 rds *max* because accuracy is starting to degrade beyond acceptable limits. 6-8k out of a little hot-rod like the Valkyrie is tough to imagine
That said... if it really does go that long - or even half that long - with good accuracy... I may have to get one to play with, just to see!
I posted a similar comment earlier in this thread. If you look at the case capacity vs bore size and compared it to other cases on the chart over on 6mmbr. There Is nothing to indicate that the 224 valk should be better than any others in similar case capacity to bore area ratios.
I think we are comparing apples to oranges if you give the 224valk to a f class shooter who runs it equally as hard as they run 223 (2500-3000 rounds) like you and i stated there is no way they are going to get more
Rounds than the 223 most likely less. Simple maths case capacity vs bore size is the only real comparison here. If someone is getting more barrel life with a more overbore cartridge than others with a less overbore cartridge than the only real possibility Is they are not running it as hard whether that Be load/speed or shot rate. Sure the shoulder angle And neck length may have a small effect and powder choice.
