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Rifle Scopes Most forgiving eye relief?

M

maumus

Private
Minuteman
Mar 10, 2010
6
0
61
San Antonio, TX
#1
Are the ACOG's (TA11 & TA33) the best available optics to help with an imprecise cheek weld?
In competitive shooting I find that I waste time adjusting my head to see through my millet scope when moving to a new position.
Is an ACOG the best on eye relief? Or should I consider others?
Any other advice about best habits to train for with regard to head position?
This beginner thanks you in advance.
 
#5
Re: Most forgiving eye relief?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mthree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thanks for the link
it raises as many questions for me as it answers - so much to learn!
although there were mixed reviews of the ACOG, i didn't see any alternative suggested </div></div>

Just depends on what you want....your purpose.
Acog's aren't a scope for precision shooting. Finicky eye relief and eye centering, a bit overpriced. What do you want to shoot at and what range. A torso @ 25-500 yds or a baseball @ 25-500 yds? You need to clarify a little and people will have suggestions. What is your budget also?
 
#6
Re: Most forgiving eye relief?

My specific applications are:

1. Hog hunting in low light or at night from 25 to 250 yards.
2. Carbine Match shooting with a local club that uses essentially an IDPA range with targets from 10 to 50 yards.
3. General paper-punching to develop my skills.

I have two 16" M4's - 6.8 SPC and 5.56mm
Each is set up the same way with weapon mounted lights and a Millet 1-4 scope with illuminated reticle
The Millet is too exacting an eye relief and I have been considering switching to an ACOG 3x or 3.5x with, perhaps, a docter sight at the 1:30 position for close-in

It's getting expensive to try out these toys as I go, so I appreciate the great articles that have been suggested so far and welcome other ideas from more experienced shooters.
 
#7
Re: Most forgiving eye relief?

Burris 1.5-6 ....the XTR if you want to spend that much. They have a less expensive model in 1.5-6 also which I am sure is fine. One on samplelist.com at the moment.
http://www.samplelist.com/Riflescopes-C4.aspx


That is my favorite focal range. Most people over do it with magnification IMO.

Several others make stuff in that focal range...1-4, 2-10, 1.5-8.
Nikon, Burris, Bushnell, Vortex, and others. I use a 1.5-6 burris XTR out to 800 yds..... I know others that do also. That is an extremely useful focal length. Look at samplelist.com
I saw a 1.5-6 Burris on there and some other good mid range focal length scopes. You have to go to the main SWFA site and check out the reticles if you see something on samplelist that interests you and are not familiar with the reticle.
http://swfa.com/Riflescopes-C1443.aspx

I know what you mean about being expensive to try out things....I do that too. I think everybody does...

If you really want flexible eye relief I would call Liberty Optics or CSTactical and talk to someone who looks through a lot of scopes....or possibly SWFA.

Hey man...hogs are swarming around SA lately I hear. A friend sent me some pics last week.
 
#8
Re: Most forgiving eye relief?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mthree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My specific applications are:

1. Hog hunting in low light or at night from 25 to 250 yards.
2. Carbine Match shooting with a local club that uses essentially an IDPA range with targets from 10 to 50 yards.
3. General paper-punching to develop my skills.

I have two 16" M4's - 6.8 SPC and 5.56mm
Each is set up the same way with weapon mounted lights and a Millet 1-4 scope with illuminated reticle
The Millet is too exacting an eye relief and I have been considering switching to an ACOG 3x or 3.5x with, perhaps, a docter sight at the 1:30 position for close-in

It's getting expensive to try out these toys as I go, so I appreciate the great articles that have been suggested so far and welcome other ideas from more experienced shooters. </div></div>
I'd say that an ACOG 3.5X would be great for "1" and "2", but weak for number "3". The problem with the 4X models is the eye relief sucks. The good thing about them is that some of them have reticles with "crosshairs" that allow more "precise" aiming points than the ACOGs' with Chevron and Donut reticles. However, they still aren't as good as a higher-magnification scope with decent clarity.

The eye relief of the ACOG 3.5X models is excellent, and <span style="font-style: italic">in my opinion</span> is one of the features that make the 3.5Xs' so great to use. You shoulder the rifle and bingo, the reticle is right there. No futzing with your cheek position on the stock as you might do with a 4X ACOG.

Have you checked-out an ACOG 3.5X or 3X in person? If not, are there any gun shops or ranges where you may be able to check them out firsthand? My favorite 5.56mm models are the <span style="font-weight: bold">TA11</span> and the <span style="font-weight: bold">TA11H</span>.

Keith
 
#9
Re: Most forgiving eye relief?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jlowell</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mthree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thanks for the link
it raises as many questions for me as it answers - so much to learn!
although there were mixed reviews of the ACOG, i didn't see any alternative suggested </div></div>

Just depends on what you want....your purpose.
Acog's aren't a scope for precision shooting. Finicky eye relief and eye centering, a bit overpriced. What do you want to shoot at and what range. A torso @ 25-500 yds or a baseball @ 25-500 yds? You need to clarify a little and people will have suggestions. What is your budget also? </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jlowell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
...Acog's aren't a scope for precision shooting. Finicky eye relief and eye centering, a bit overpriced. What do you want to shoot at and what range. A torso @ 25-500 yds or a baseball @ 25-500 yds?...</div></div>
While ACOGs' are rather poor for precision shooting, the 4X models with reticles that have actual intersections such as the <span style="font-weight: bold">TA01</span> and <span style="font-weight: bold">TA01NSN</span> allow more "precise" aiming than the ACOGs' with Chevron and Donut reticles. Still not great, but better than the Donut, Chevron, or Dot. The eye relief does suck on the 4X32s'.

However, <span style="font-style: italic">"Finicky eye relief and eye centering"</span> doesn't apply to any of the twenty ACOG 3.5X magnification models, eleven (11) of which are calibrated for 5.56mm projectiles. While Trijicon claims eye relief of 2.39 or 2.40 inches for all twenty (20) ACOG 3.5X models, the 3.5Xs' have more than that in reality. The <span style="font-weight: bold">TA11</span> has a claimed eye relief of 2.40", but my TA11 has about 3", and I have used other ACOG 3.5Xs' with similar results.

Overpriced? Maybe. I do know that the <span style="font-style: italic">List Price</span> of the TA11 has only increased $102.00 (from $1,275.00 to $1,377.00) since I bought my TA11 almost 15 years ago in 1995, so there was obviously "substantial" margin there. I do know that it is a great optic. With BH 68grs. I can use the TA11's Donut to hit milk jug-size (hey, keep your mind out of the gutter for now) out to 300 yards, and use the stadia lines out to 600 yards to hit torso-sized targets with my 45 year-old eyes.

Keith
 
#10
Re: Most forgiving eye relief?

Looks like I need to pony up and get the ACOG.
Thanks for the suggestions about the crosshairs - it makes sense from an accuracy standpoint.
I have been able to look through quite a few variants at gun shows and my eye seems to prefer the "logic" of the donut or horseshoe.
I am also leaning toward the green over red reticle.
The big question regarding the ACOG's is 3x or 3.5x.
The 3x has a 30mm objective and the 3.5 is 35mm.
The 3.5 is larger and a little "brighter", but has the ranging lines left and right (which are unnecessarily confusing to these eyes - which will never call in artillery)
Anyone have comparative experience with the two?
Does one perform better than the other in low light?

Any experienced suggestions about these three issues will be much appreciated in helping me make the choice:
1. TA11 vs. TA33
2. Donut vs. Horseshoe
3. Green vs. Red
 
#11
Re: Most forgiving eye relief?

I've used the TA33 with horseshoe(AMBER) on my issued M4 out to 400 yards. The Models you listed above should be roughly equal in low-light performance. The magnification and objective size are directly proportional. The Horseshoe should provide more accurate shot placement, where the donut would offer faster target acquisition at short-range.

Sorry if I complicate things. But for the same amount of money or less you could have an Eotech AND 3x magnifier. Unlimited eye relief. Extremely fast 1X optic for close in work. 3X mag for further out. NVG compatible and more precise than the ACOG donut reticle. You can also co-witness w/ your irons. Trade-off is no BDC reticle and batteries.
 
#12
Re: Most forgiving eye relief?

I second what Keith said about ACOG, and share his passion for TA11H. I use it on my tactical 5.56 and find it a very convenient tool.

TA11 vs. TA33 - no personal experience with TA33, but I was recommended TA11 because of its better eye relief.

Donut vs. Horseshoe - no personal experience with the Donut, picked Horseshoe for better longer-range capabilities. For me Horseshoe works fine. Maybe Donut would offer quicker target acquisition short-range - maybe not. Horseshoe is quick enough for me (but I am not in a shooting war right now
wink.gif
).

Green vs. Red - there was no green Horseshoe when I was shopping (don't know if they're available now). I contemplated green. Zak Smith reviewed TA11H with green reticle and said that he prefers red over green. I'm quite comfortable with red - especially being unable to compare it with anything else
grin.gif
.
 
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