Rifle Scopes Most forgiving parallax?

Covertnoob5

Covertnoob5

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    • Feb 12, 2017
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    #1
    Hey guys, got a little bit of an itch to try a new scope. Haven’t decided what yet, but I want to know about the parallax on the scopes you guys are using.

    I’ve been using a Premier gen2mildot 3-15 tactical the last couple matches and I’ve seen how valuable an easy parallax is. That thing is basically parallax free from 200yds out. It literally didn’t even occur to me to touch the parallax knob. That was a great benefit on the clock.

    So, I’m wondering what other scopes also have very forgiving parallax similar to the Premier. And yes I know TT does, but until that new reticle comes out I’m not getting one.

    Thanks :)
     
    #3
    Tag for the mechanical explanation.
    Is it dependent on the size of the objective lens vs the mag range, like exit pupil?
    Or the distance of that objective lens from the reticle lens?
    Curious as well,
    Maybe Ilya will chime in.
     
    #4
    I don't know how scope design plays into this, but if you're into photography at all, you know that the longer the focal length and the higher the magnification, the thinner your depth of field (DoF) is. So scopes that go up to 29-30x on the top end will automatically have much thinner DoF than scopes in the 20-25x range, and those will be thinner than scopes that top out at 15x. I didn't need to use the parallax adjustment on my SWFA 3-15 a ton. I use it a bit more on my SWFA 5-20 HD, and I used it a whole bunch on my Cronus 4.5-29. There are definitely other differences within the scope design that will impact DoF, but it's worth noting that if using parallax adjustment less is a priority, then dialing to a lower mag will always help make the DoF much deeper.
     
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    #10
    47guy - Dittos on the Kahles K624i. I've owned several of these scopes, and still have three of them mounted on my Bighorn comp rifles. They have by far the most generous eyebox of any 24x scope I've shot behind, and are the least critical on parallax of any scope that I've shot from 200 out past 1000yds. Yes, I'm curious about the new K525, but am not about to let any of my K624i scopes go just to try one. I know what I've got in the 624...and have been very pleased with them since 2014.
     
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    #11
    patriot07 said:
    I don't know how scope design plays into this, but if you're into photography at all, you know that the longer the focal length and the higher the magnification, the thinner your depth of field (DoF) is. So scopes that go up to 29-30x on the top end will automatically have much thinner DoF than scopes in the 20-25x range, and those will be thinner than scopes that top out at 15x. I didn't need to use the parallax adjustment on my SWFA 3-15 a ton. I use it a bit more on my SWFA 5-20 HD, and I used it a whole bunch on my Cronus 4.5-29. There are definitely other differences within the scope design that will impact DoF, but it's worth noting that if using parallax adjustment less is a priority, then dialing to a lower mag will always help make the DoF much deeper.
    Click to expand...

    Yea I usually keep my mag between 8x-15x out to about 1400yds regardless of the scope I’m using. So I definitely do back down.
    But there as still some scopes that require some parallax adjustment to be made and that’s what I’m trying to figure out. Which ones are similar to Premier where I can basically be parallax free from 200yds out without touching the parallax adjustment.
     
    #16
    flatland1 said:
    47guy - Dittos on the Kahles K624i. I've owned several of these scopes, and still have three of them mounted on my Bighorn comp rifles. They have by far the most generous eyebox of any 24x scope I've shot behind, and are the least critical on parallax of any scope that I've shot from 200 out past 1000yds. Yes, I'm curious about the new K525, but am not about to let any of my K624i scopes go just to try one. I know what I've got in the 624...and have been very pleased with them since 2014.
    Click to expand...

    milo has first hand experience with the kahlas 525....maybe he will chime in here soon.
     
    #17
    i had a minox...loved the glass but the eye box was very tight and the parallax very touchy...i sold it and bought a kahlas.
    ive also owned 2 night force 1 nxs 1 atacr 2 vortex gen 2 4.5-27s the minox above a SWFA 3-15 and 5-25 and a couple others i forgot or not worth mentioning....i will only shoot kahlas after owning 2 of them..best scope made IMHO.
     
    #20
    Hairy Biker said:
    What hic28 said. Is the question relating to the target being in focus at all times across multiple ranges?
    Click to expand...

    Yes.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax

    Think of sitting in the passenger seat and looking over at the speedometer it looks like the needle is not pointing at the correct number...it’s because it’s not lined up with your eye sight....very basic and simple explanation

    Parallax looks like the reticle is moving around as you move your head when looking through your scope and can cause you to miss targets especially if they are small targets
     
    #22
    Surprised no one has mentioned SB. I dont own one anymore but the 2 I've had were excellent. Put them at 500yds and forget it for the whole match. My NF 7-35 is okay, but the setting is very critical at less than 500yds.
     
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    #23
    I have a ZCO ZC420 on order, I am really hoping it has amazing depth and forgiving with parallax, of course, it hasn’t been released yet so will need to wait a bit until they hit the market. The ZC527’s should be shipping soon and may provide some indication, but with the ZC420 being an ultra short design I’m not sure if that’s one of the downsides though my K318i has shown promise so far, just don’t have enough time behind it to say how much I have to fiddle.
     
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    #24
    wjm308 said:
    I have a ZCO ZC420 on order, I am really hoping it has amazing depth and forgiving with parallax, of course, it hasn’t been released yet so will need to wait a bit until they hit the market. The ZC527’s should be shipping soon and may provide some indication, but with the ZC420 being an ultra short design I’m not sure if that’s one of the downsides though my K318i has shown promise so far, just don’t have enough time behind it to say how much I have to fiddle.
    Click to expand...

    I was going to ask you about that 318i, but I feel like due to the design it’s not going to be as good as a full size scope.
    Is your minox very easy with the parallax?
     
    #25
    Covertnoob5 said:
    I was going to ask you about that 318i, but I feel like due to the design it’s not going to be as good as a full size scope.
    Is your minox very easy with the parallax?
    Click to expand...
    It's so interesting when I read these posts and see conflicting reports. @47guy mentions above that he had a Minox that had a poor eyebox and finicky parallax, that is NOT my experience with my Minox ZP5, now granted, 47guy doesn't mention if he is referring to a ZP5 5-25 or another model line that Minox makes, but if he is referring to the ZP5 5-25 then I'd say he got a bum scope that was in need of repair because that flies against the experience everyone else has had with the ZP5. Like Morgan and CS Tactical, I have found the parallax on the ZP5 to be very forgiving, keeping in mind the Premier, Tangent Theta and Minox ZP5 all share a similar lineage from the Optronika group so I would expect all scopes to function very similar. One of the first things I noticed with the K318i was that it didn't seem to be as finicky with parallax as I thought it would be. If I remember right you've owned the S&B Ultra Short 5-20 right? I have not had them side by side but from memory I'd say the K318i has more depth than the US 5-20.
     
    #26
    wjm308 said:
    It's so interesting when I read these posts and see conflicting reports. @47guy mentions above that he had a Minox that had a poor eyebox and finicky parallax, that is NOT my experience with my Minox ZP5, now granted, 47guy doesn't mention if he is referring to a ZP5 5-25 or another model line that Minox makes, but if he is referring to the ZP5 5-25 then I'd say he got a bum scope that was in need of repair because that flies against the experience everyone else has had with the ZP5. Like Morgan and CS Tactical, I have found the parallax on the ZP5 to be very forgiving, keeping in mind the Premier, Tangent Theta and Minox ZP5 all share a similar lineage from the Optronika group so I would expect all scopes to function very similar. One of the first things I noticed with the K318i was that it didn't seem to be as finicky with parallax as I thought it would be. If I remember right you've owned the S&B Ultra Short 5-20 right? I have not had them side by side but from memory I'd say the K318i has more depth than the US 5-20.
    Click to expand...

    Yup! I had 3 5-20’s no less. H2cmr, p4f, and h59. Hmm I’m tempted to try the minox if I find a used one for a good deal before the TT gen3xr is out.
     
    #27
    @wjm308 yes it was a ZP5 5-25...the glass was fantastic but the eye box was tight and the parallax was very touchy...i also think your right there was an issue with the parallax...it worked but just not right...the guy i sold it to is one of my smiths i told him about it and he took it for a week played with it and ended buying it and is happy.

    @Covertnoob5...i would not be afraid to try the minox lotta guys love them and the guys at CS tactical love them too like i just said i may have had a bum scope.
     
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    #28
    Thanks for the clarity on the original question.

    Drilling down. In what position does this happen (sitting, standing, prone)? How did you set your scope up originally (prone, bench, other)? At what stress level do you experience the floating? Can you always come back to the same cheek weld position each time? When you are on target and close your eyes, where is the cross hair when you open them again? Can you shoot a 10 shot string prone unsupported at 300 without breaking position - why does the group look like?

    Many times, especially with modern scopes, the issue is the ergonomics of the stock and the way the scope has been set up relative to the shooter.
     
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    #29
    Hairy Biker said:
    Thanks for the clarity on the original question.

    Drilling down. In what position does this happen (sitting, standing, prone)? How did you set your scope up originally (prone, bench, other)? At what stress level do you experience the floating? Can you always come back to the same cheek weld position each time? When you are on target and close your eyes, where is the cross hair when you open them again? Can you shoot a 10 shot string prone unsupported at 300 without breaking position - why does the group look like?

    Many times, especially with modern scopes, the issue is the ergonomics of the stock and the way the scope has been set up relative to the shooter.
    Click to expand...

    Scope was setup from the bench. The premier is super forgiving, just looking for something with more mag that is equally forgiving. This is going on my PRS rifle.
     
    #30
    Covertnoob5 said:
    Scope was setup from the bench. The premier is super forgiving, just looking for something with more mag that is equally forgiving. This is going on my PRS rifle.
    Click to expand...

    I also have a ZP5 and find it easier to get behind than any of the vortex, atacr, or Schmidt’s I’ve owned. Parallax is as described above. I’m waiting on the gen3xr and then I’ll be picking up a TT. But I won’t be getting rid of my minox.
     
    #31
    Covertnoob5 said:
    Yup! I had 3 5-20’s no less. H2cmr, p4f, and h59. Hmm I’m tempted to try the minox if I find a used one for a good deal before the TT gen3xr is out.
    Click to expand...
    3 of them! You’re an ultra short hoarder ;). If you try the Minox you’ll get a good taste of what the TT will be like, the MR4 and Gen 3 XR are very similar, you may like it so much you just can’t get rid of it :)
     
    #33
    My 3-15 premier is crazy forgiving on both parallax and eyebox. Only if the target got over 1k did I ever seem to remember messing with it during a match. I tend to set my schmidt at the middle target distance and run it with no real problems also ran my razor this way.
     
    #34
    Eliteuas said:
    Hensoldt series. One of the reasons I bought one; is after having read a hundred times “best eye box” I caved...
    Click to expand...
    Be nice if Hensoldt would upgrade that 4-16x56 to something like a 4-20x56 :)

    Noob, let us know what you end up with and how you feel it compares to your Premier... Also, I'm heading out to the range this coming Wednesday and I might try to do a comparison of the parallax forgiveness between my Minox ZP5 5-25 and the short Kahles K318i just to get an idea of how far off the Kahles is being an ultra short design. My S&B Ultra Short 3-20 also hasn't sold yet, maybe I'll take it out of the box and put it up against the others as well??? We have a new steel range that has steel from 200yds out to 1000yds, all within the same lane, I might just pull all my scopes out and conduct a test on all of them. I'm usually a parallax fiddler, but I'd be curious if I set them all at 300y (or any recommendations for the "magic" setting?) and see how much reticle movement is exhibited at the different distances.
     
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    #35
    wjm308 said:
    Be nice if Hensoldt would upgrade that 4-16x56 to something like a 4-20x56 :)

    Noob, let us know what you end up with and how you feel it compares to your Premier... Also, I'm heading out to the range this coming Wednesday and I might try to do a comparison of the parallax forgiveness between my Minox ZP5 5-25 and the short Kahles K318i just to get an idea of how far off the Kahles is being an ultra short design. My S&B Ultra Short 3-20 also hasn't sold yet, maybe I'll take it out of the box and put it up against the others as well??? We have a new steel range that has steel from 200yds out to 1000yds, all within the same lane, I might just pull all my scopes out and conduct a test on all of them. I'm usually a parallax fiddler, but I'd be curious if I set them all at 300y (or any recommendations for the "magic" setting?) and see how much reticle movement is exhibited at the different distances.
    Click to expand...


    I would be very very interested to know how the 318i compares to the minox and 3-20US if you can.
    I’d try maybe something around half of the potential shooting range so around 500yds? Just a guess though.
    I will update what I go with, if I ever make up my mind lol
     
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