Moving to WVa?

[alpine44]

Going to settlement for sale of property on Chesapeake Bay in two weeks. Currently main residence is in Western NC far enough from Asheville.

Original plan was to buy remote land in NC but next "election" may turn NC blue.

Alternative would be moving to TN or WV. Prefer altitude (cooler summer), solitute, and state/local government that is willing to ignore crap coming from DC.

Any suggestions?

 

[Maggot]

Welcome to WVa

 

[ccasanova]

I lived in Fayetteville for a while. It’s right on the New River Gorge. Beautiful area. White water rafting, trout fishing, hiking, state parks, hunting, etc. It was a bit hipster though, man buns, craft beer, pizza, coffee; lots of Subarus lol.

Wyoming county is the most remote place I’ve ever been. Rugged and certainly off the beaten path. Coal country.

Although not on your list, northeast Alabama is another place I’ve lived and would move back to in a heartbeat. The corner of AL/GA/TN. Not too far from the Jack Daniel’s distillery either.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

I’m looking as well, all mentioned are on my list as well as ID WY FL

 

[KZP]

I don't live in WV, but have been watching a civil rights lawyer who is conservative fight their governor over unconstitutional stuff.

Would be interesting to know if that governor is on the way out next election or sticking around.

 

[Steve_In_29]

Keep in mind that if you go remote in some areas, you will never be accepted by the locals and will always be the outsider.

Also remote areas can have issues with meth/hydrocodone addiction and everything that isn't nailed down gets stolen. So need to check crime stats.

I'm not back east but there is an area near me where it looks like every property has either been robbed or had a domestic dispute call. My LEO friend said it's bad over there. An internet friend moved into that area and her place was robbed between dropping off her first load and returning with her second.

 

[Va_Gentleman]

Keep in mind that if you go remote in some areas, you will never be accepted by the locals and will always be the outsider.

Also remote areas can have issues with meth/hydrocodone addiction and everything that isn't nailed down gets stolen. So need to check crime stats.

I'm not back east but there is an area near me where it looks like every property has either been robbed or had a domestic dispute call. My LEO friend said it's bad over there. An internet friend moved into that area and her place was robbed between dropping off her first load and returning with her second.

Appalachastan can be tough to assimilate into the community if you are not one of them. They are especially wary right now with all of the Yankee Horde moving out of the cities and buying land.

If there is a way to visit a small town in Wyoming county, or at least Pineville to meet the folks and discuss why you are moving there; it could help you make a better decision.

 

[alpine44]

Thanks to all for the comments and suggestions.

As a very noticeable outsider who immigrated from Germany 30ish years ago, I seem to have fewer problems in areas where the locals are tightly knit.

Nobody mistakes me for a carpet bagger Yank and I generally get afforded more slack for being (initially) oblivious to the local rules.

I also seek immediate cooperation with neighbors and the community by me offering help/assistance. This often before moving in. By paying forward the support I received where I came from I keep the concept going. One of the old standing locals in my current AO said it verbatim when I wanted to compensate him for his very generous help. "Help someone who needs it more than I"

Among all the accusations my ex-wife leveled against me, she was correct in calling me an over-educated, under-accomplished (w.r.t. her expectations) red neck. I other words, I mesh well with salt of the earth folks.

Now that being said, drug addiction is the certain end to neighborly trust and support. Addicts steal from their own kind and kin.

Does anybody know where to get reliable data about drug infestation of states, counties, areas without having to visit hundreds of Sherrif offices?

What areas should I take off the map from the get go?

 

[Va_Gentleman]

Well, Southern West Virginia and Southwest Virginia is absolutely drug-infested. Once the Coal economy was crushed, there was nothing left; although the SxS, 4-Wheeler and Dirtbike Trails are breathing new life into the area. Hopefully there are jobs that come back and sustain.

Just check out the current status of McDowell County WV and that would go for almost every county in a 150mi radius.

 

[alpine44]

Well, Southern West Virginia and Southwest Virginia is absolutely drug-infested. Once the Coal economy was crushed, there was nothing left; although the SxS, 4-Wheeler and Dirtbike Trails are breathing new life into the area. Hopefully there are jobs that come back and sustain.

Just check out the current status of McDowell County WV and that would go for almost every county in a 150mi radius.

Thanks. Please keep the details coming.

My focus in WV is currently on the counties East of I-77 and I-79. I have to move my personal machine shop and several heavy vehicles in addition to household from Northern MD and any mile that I can avoid leaves money in the bank.

 

[alpine44]

I’m looking as well, all mentioned are on my list as well as ID WY FL

The states you mentioned were on my list but anything south of NC is out for me because of the Summer heat. Why should I live in the country if I have to spend a large portion of the summer daylight hours in the house with the A/C blaring?

As beautiful as ID and WY are (I lived in MT for close to five years) the prime habitats in these states have been carved up among folks with unlimited financial resources who put their 5th trophy homes there. What's left lacks either water or wood or both.

Yes, neighbors matter but the resources that the land offers also needs to be considered. In Western NC for example is no shortage of clean spring water and as little as 20 acres provides more hardwood than you can possibly burn in your stove. We currently use the excess to grow edible, non-hallucinogenic mushrooms. My next home will be framed in timber. I have worked in that trade as a young buck in Bavaria and it's time to get back to proper architectural engineering. Solid timber - in contrast to toothpicks held together by OSB and sheetrock - allows you to go from here to there and anything in between.

 

[Not a Clue]

What are your objectives? Do you want to be within driving distance of creature comforts like restaurants, big box stores, etc? Or are you looking to be in them middle of nowhere? WV is a beautiful state with some very different lifestyles. There's a 13,000 sq. mile area that's radio free, meaning very very little cell phone coverage, lack of options for internet, etc, no restaurants or hotels anywhere around, and then there's outside that 13,000 sq mile zone that's just normal population and things every other town/city has.

Green Bank, being the epicenter for no radios. Beautiful place and area, but if you are stranded at night, you're off the grid, so to speak.

Then you have the smaller coal towns that have one convenience store/gas station and that's about it, along with some really really sketchy looking people who clearly have drug problems. You'll find those little towns to look and feel really rough and not all that safe, if you were to have to live there.

 

[ggmanning]

My wife is from Clarksburg WV. From Pocohontas county to there is very rural and beautiful. Where she is from are good people. They are good with anybody that is as you say you are and minds there own business. Meth/Opiod is anywhere rural in higher degrees depending on location. I live in rural NC and it's here as well. If you live in the NC mountains you've seen it too. It's easy to tell the areas where the gubment teet and drugs are king from the truck window in WV.

 

[davsco]

check out davis / canaan valley. we have a vaca place there. not a stop light for 30 miles. nearest town is elkins about 45 minutes, they have a walmart, fast food, hospital, but no depot or lowes. about 3 hours west of northern virginia, about 2 hours west of i81, about 2 hours se of morgantown.. at around 3k feet it is a little cooler and less humid than nova/dc. no crime/drugs but not a big population either. as of last summer i believe that county had 2-3 covid cases.

 

[Slash0311]

Im familiar with Bluefield area. The big thing to remember is the economy in that area is very poor and little in the way of growth. I have family in that area. House construction is low. Coal mines are being destroyed (especially if this new dumbass fires up the green new deal as an attack on coal again)

Don't get me wrong, I love the area, people and climate. But snow can be a problem in the winter. A lot don't run AC in the summer eirher.

 

[Steve_In_29]

What are your objectives? Do you want to be within driving distance of creature comforts like restaurants, big box stores, etc? Or are you looking to be in them middle of nowhere? WV is a beautiful state with some very different lifestyles. There's a 13,000 sq. mile area that's radio free, meaning very very little cell phone coverage, lack of options for internet, etc, no restaurants or hotels anywhere around, and then there's outside that 13,000 sq mile zone that's just normal population and things every other town/city has.

Green Bank, being the epicenter for no radios. Beautiful place and area, but if you are stranded at night, you're off the grid, so to speak.

Then you have the smaller coal towns that have one convenience store/gas station and that's about it, along with some really really sketchy looking people who clearly have drug problems. You'll find those little towns to look and feel really rough and not all that safe, if you were to have to live there.

Valid points and similar to what I ask people who talk to me about getting away from things. People need to take a HARD look at what amenities they are willing to give up. We bought our place in AZ from a couple who hadn't done that before cashing out their 401K and buying it as their retirement home. They were from the Los Angeles cesspool and his wife wanted nothing to do with being so far in the sticks. It seems most that want to get away from things, still want to be just a short drive to ALL the conveniences they are used to in the city. That can be done but the cost of property goes up exponentially.

We are 10 miles outside of a town that has no supermarket, big box stores or even an urgent care clinic. And the town is the county seat. St Johns has a few mom/pop restaurants, a Dollar General, a small IGA grocery that is also an ACE Hardware, a CarQuest Auto, a CircleK convenience store, a Subway, two bars and a small drug store. Closest supermarket and hospital is 40 miles from house. Closest Walmart, larger hospital, etc is 60 miles away. Closest large city is Flagstaff that's 2 hours away.

Remote areas and smaller towns tend to also be further away from medical care and LEO/EMS response can be slow to non-existent. On our area there aren't even Sheriff's Deputies on duty 24/7. So anything after 21:00 can take a LONG time for one to show up, as they have to be rousted out of bed. You better be prepared to handle things on your own out here. Cops are for reports, not protection.

 

[darkfader]

My house is in Davis. I work in Harrison county, a little over an hour from my house. Opioids are bad in the metro areas. Lots of “walking dead” type creatures. If you’re a skier/snowboarder/mountain biker/kayaker, definitely take a look in Tucker county. As said, definitely be ready for a lot of areas with no cell phone coverage.

 

[BullGear]

There's plenty of decent land in the southern part of WV. You don't usually have to deal with the drug problems you do up north. My recommendation would be to look from Beckley south. I was born in Mullens and after the flood awhile back, there community never came back. There's a ton of nice places down there. Stay somewhere around a larger town. When they talk rural, they mean rural, so unless you want to travel for medical or food and gas, stay close.

 

[Willoughby1971]

I live near Charleston WV and my office is near Weston, I like the Weston area since there are two 1000 yard ranges close (Whitehorse and Fairview) and a public 300 yard range at Stonewall Jackson lake.

 

[Chenapan]

As a very noticeable outsider who immigrated from Germany 30ish years ago...

Well, don't forget to put Helvetia on your WV visit list! My impressions from visiting my extended family in WV are: the eastern panhandle (Charles Town-Martinsburg-Shepardstown), and the Morgantown corridor (I-79 from Clarksburg to Morgantown) are some of the more cosmopolitan areas. The Ohio river valley (the western edge of the state from Nitro/Charleston to Wheeling) historically had lots of heavy industry including some nasty chemical plants. WV is class-based Southern culture, so being a Mason, member of a lodge (Elks, Moose, Red Men, that sort), or churchified type (or synagogue-goer in the cities) is important if you're a middle-class sort. All of those organizations can help you integrate and you might want to test the waters by connecting with their local leadership for some insight before you decide to move. Very much a townie-country boy divide. A townie is not a city boy... WV doesn't actually have too much in the way of city, mostly just big towns in disguise. The immigrant wave of the early 20th century added Italians and Lebanese to those big towns, and Senator Byrd moved parts of the Federal government to them about 30 years ago, so lots of ATF, FBI, and other gov't agencies have outposts in WV -- not a good place for a tinfoil hat. Townies have local police/sheriff's deputies/State Police and country boys have their clans, whether it's in the form of their cousins or fellow Brothers of the Wheel. As for local customs, Mountaineers hate having their picture taken and love a good feud (observe the glorification of the Hatfield-McCoy fracas), though these days someone is more likely to 'accidentally' drive across your front yard than assassinate you.

 

[Va_Gentleman]

Im familiar with Bluefield area. The big thing to remember is the economy in that area is very poor and little in the way of growth. I have family in that area. House construction is low. Coal mines are being destroyed (especially if this new dumbass fires up the green new deal as an attack on coal again)

Don't get me wrong, I love the area, people and climate. But snow can be a problem in the winter. A lot don't run AC in the summer eirher.

Get's above 90, the Chamber of Commerce serves Lemonade!

 

[alpine44]

Wow. Lot's of good info above. Thanks y'all.

Someone asked about my needs for restaurants, etc. I can live without them in close proximity. In fact, phrases like "conveniently close to everything xyz town has to offer" in real estate listings make me move on. I have a stealth RV built from a E350 (7.3L) box truck and already combine socializing and supply runs with the regular exploration trips. Head out for a long hike with my four-leggers, spend the night in the RV after hanging out in some watering holes and then load up for the next month on the way home the next day. Definitely planning to spend a few days around Helvetia; that looks neat.

An analysis considering crime statistics and other data like unemployment and education level ranked the counties as shown in my following graphic. Does that look about right to those who have first hand knowledge of WV? (low green numbers is best, low red numbers is worst, not labeled is neither here nor there)

C

 

[Woodlanddude]

Expect to lay out some $$ for land anywhere its worthwhile. Helvetia and Davis... these are going to have the toughest winters and poorest soil for you to try to post a survival home. Helvetia is interesting due to the fact that while people were able to thrive there with the old ways. What the Swiss settlers accomplished there is considered amazing by WV standards. I believe it was only through the establishment of trade that allowed them to do so. Wheat and livestock were certainly grown there, but I don't think in sufficient quantities to fully support the community. If the shtf scenario plays out it would be the worst place to be as an out of towner. Everyone in the community is going to have their family there and their lifelong buddies. They will decide how they are going to divvy up your stuff. The brook trout populations were decimated the last time I fished there. 4 wheelers can and do go anywhere outside of town. I would look in the area around Flatwoods to Stonewall Jackson lake if I had the resources and motivation. Not as remote, and still not overpopulated in areas. Pocahontas County north of Lewisburg is nice. Around Beckley here, you would want to look at the areas east and south of town. As others have attested the real deals on land are all by word of mouth these days. Not usually for those of us uprooting and moving in. On drugs, the whole state has been affected to some degree. In town is worse than out of town in most places. Southern WV as in Madison to the South is ate up. There are hollers around here and there I would not enter armed.

 

[Not a Clue]

Just for reference, here's the map of the Radio Quiet Zone....

https://www.gb.nrao.edu/nrqz/NRQZ_map_color.jpg

 

[alpine44]

What are your objectives? Do you want to be within driving distance of creature comforts like restaurants, big box stores, etc? Or are you looking to be in them middle of nowhere? WV is a beautiful state with some very different lifestyles. There's a 13,000 sq. mile area that's radio free, meaning very very little cell phone coverage, lack of options for internet, etc, no restaurants or hotels anywhere around, and then there's outside that 13,000 sq mile zone that's just normal population and things every other town/city has.

Green Bank, being the epicenter for no radios. Beautiful place and area, but if you are stranded at night, you're off the grid, so to speak.

Then you have the smaller coal towns that have one convenience store/gas station and that's about it, along with some really really sketchy looking people who clearly have drug problems. You'll find those little towns to look and feel really rough and not all that safe, if you were to have to live there.

Just checked the comms situation in Green Bank. Yes, no cell but one VHF repeater there and two more within 20 miles. This mirrors my experience in remote areas of Montana. Where the cell coverage is sketchy, UHF/VHF repeaters typically fill the gap. Mountainous areas are bad for cellular but good for VHF/UHF repeater networks.

And then there is HF that provides access to other people and email (winlink) several hundred or thousands of miles away. So far, I have not yet found a place in the US where I CANNOT get anyone on the horn if necessary. All it takes is a ham license, pertinent know-how, and a small aluminum case with about $1000 worth of geek stuff (all band transceiver, tuner, several simple antennae, a single-board computer, and a high capacity Li-Ion battery).

 

[bigbuckslayer3]

Have lived in WV my whole life right on the Ohio river on the border. Many great places mentioned. You can deffenitly get off the grid, fish ,hunt hike bike you name it. All along the the New River is Absolutely Gorgeous. Drug problems are pretty bad around all the larger cities these days. I think you would find most people in the state friendly for the most part. I will say though that having been in some of the very remote places hunting,fishing hiking ect lived in this state my whole I was an outsider.

 

[alpine44]

Just for reference, here's the map of the Radio Quiet Zone....

https://www.gb.nrao.edu/nrqz/NRQZ_map_color.jpg

Of course, I would limit any transmission near the radio telescope to emergency needs. I hate RFI too when listening to distant stations.

A nice "bad weather day" project would be to assess how the published power density limits would constrain regular ham transmissions. This will require non-trivial modelling of the antenna's radiation efficiency and pattern. Amateur radio operators often use very little transmitter output power to cover large distances just to show that we can.

 

[alpine44]

Have lived in WV my whole life right on the Ohio river on the border. Many great places mentioned. You can deffenitly get off the grid, fish ,hunt hike bike you name it. All along the the New River is Absolutely Gorgeous. Drug problems are pretty bad around all the larger cities these days. I think you would find most people in the state friendly for the most part. I will say though that having been in some of the very remote places hunting,fishing hiking ect lived in this state my whole I was an outsider.

One of the properties on my hot list is overlooking the Ohio. I may PM you some specific questions before heading out there in about one week.

Do you mean the New River in Fayette county?

Your last point was a little garbled. You may have meant that while you lived in WV your whole life, you still felt like an outsider in the remote areas.

That's fine with me. The only thing I expect from society at large is to leave me TF alone.

 

[bigbuckslayer3]

One of the properties on my hot list is overlooking the Ohio. I may PM you some specific questions before heading out there in about one week.

Do you mean the New River in Fayette county?

PM away I'll try to help,
yep Fayette County Beautiful!

 

[alpine44]

There are a couple properties on my list that have "free natural gas". I assume that the owner made a deal with a company to put in a well or pipeline in exchange for cash and/or free gas.

I know that it is important to own the mineral right in these areas since otherwise they can drill right in your "backyard" at any time. (Unlikely under Biden but not impossible).

But if I own both surface and mineral rights then free gas sounds like the cat's meow. It means free heat and, with a generator, free electricity, which then means plenty of all season home-grown food like the weed growers do with heat and artificial light in a building where you don't have to worry about critters eating most of your harvest. And small modifications to my 7000 PSI scuba compressor plus a government surplus CNG vehicle would also lead to free transportation.

That sounds too good to be true. What are the caveats that I did not consider above?

 

[bigbuckslayer3]

There are a couple properties on my list that have "free natural gas". I assume that the owner made a deal with a company to put in a well or pipeline in exchange for cash and/or free gas.

I know that it is important to own the mineral right in these areas since otherwise they can drill right in your "backyard" at any time. (Unlikely under Biden but not impossible).

But if I own both surface and mineral rights than free gas sounds like the cat's meow. It means free heat and, with an engine and generator, free electricity, which then means plenty of all season home-grown food like the weed growers do with heat and artificial light in a building where you don't have to worry about critters eating most of your harvest. And small modifications to my 7000 PSI scuba compressor plus a government surplus CNG vehicle would also lead to free transportation.

That sounds too good to be true. What are the caveats that I did not consider above?

Mineral rights will be tough to get ie expensive these days. Seems like no well can be drilled closer than 500 yards from a residence? Free gas is great for the most part it can freeze up go off at times and you never know when it may just stop producing. No personal experience just from friends. Lots of old abandoned capped wells around.

 

[bigbuckslayer3]

You're right on the deal for free gas with the property owner making a deal when the well was drilled. Free gas and percentage of the well in some cases.

 

[Not a Clue]

Whatever you decide, it's a beautiful state. I can't think of any parts of if that don't have something beautiful to explore.

 

[Chenapan]

Is there a water well on the property and has it been affected by the gas well would be one question I'd ask. Also, does the owner share responsibility for maintenance of some portion of the equipment that's used to bleed off the gas. Don't know anything about how long wells can last, you might get the gas company number and ask them about the age of the well and how long they think it'll produce.

 

[BullGear]

There are a couple properties on my list that have "free natural gas". I assume that the owner made a deal with a company to put in a well or pipeline in exchange for cash and/or free gas.

I know that it is important to own the mineral right in these areas since otherwise they can drill right in your "backyard" at any time. (Unlikely under Biden but not impossible).

But if I own both surface and mineral rights then free gas sounds like the cat's meow. It means free heat and, with a generator, free electricity, which then means plenty of all season home-grown food like the weed growers do with heat and artificial light in a building where you don't have to worry about critters eating most of your harvest. And small modifications to my 7000 PSI scuba compressor plus a government surplus CNG vehicle would also lead to free transportation.

That sounds too good to be true. What are the caveats that I did not consider above?

Mineral rights are down right impossible to obtain in the southern part of WV. Those mineral right would also include coal and most coal rights are owned by BIG companies.

 

[BullGear]

Mineral rights will be tough to get ie expensive these days. Seems like no well can be drilled closer than 500 yards from a residence? Free gas is great for the most part it can freeze up go off at times and you never know when it may just stop producing. No personal experience just from friends. Lots of old abandoned capped wells around.

You also have to understand once you drill your gas well and have good pressure, someone down the road could do the same thing, hitting your gas pocket. Now how much pressure do you have? That could be a problem. I'm not saying it can't be done but there could be a crashing end to your gas production without any fault of your own..

I have an aunt who has lived very well on the gas wells on her properties (Near Bradshaw). She's been drawing a check long before I was born in 1961. All of her kids (2) and grandkids are also set for life.

 

[bigbuckslayer3]

You also have to understand once you drill your gas well and have good pressure, someone down the road could do the same thing, hitting your gas pocket. Now how much pressure do you have? That could be a problem. I'm not saying it can't be done but there could be a crashing end to your gas production without any fault of your own..

I have an aunt who has lived very well on the gas wells on her properties (Near Bradshaw). She's been drawing a check long before I was born in 1961. All of her kids (2) and grandkids are also set for life.

I was referring to a company drilling on property after the OP had bought it that had the mineral rights. Not him drilling a well for gas himself. I think he was concerned with an outfit drilling a well and him not having any say in it.