For folks who are open to receiving factual data, very well. You can't teach someone who doesn't want to learn.
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Mules redeployed
- Thread starter Dunraven
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It's existence of it across this land is the only thing keeping us from being subjects instead of citizens.
Indeed you can’t. You also won’t get anywhere by browbeating people because “I’m right and you’re wrong”. Everyone has their moment, it just takes being in the right spot at the right time to give them a nudge without being too abrasive
And it shouldn’t be until it’s absolutely necessary. That’s not an option to be toying with too casually
An argument could be made that Americans have been subjects, although in a pretty subtle way, for a very long time. All you need to do is ask, “What can’t I say no too?”.
For far too long we've been sold a bill of goods, that was advertised as helping people. It was sold by one party with a complicit media along for the ride.
I'm just telling the truth. If some find that abrasive, so be it.
My grandfather had a saying, before you complain about your toes being stepped on, first check where you're standing.
I agree with most of what you’re saying. I don’t agree that there’s only one party complicit in this charade. The republicrats are the Steve Austin to the democans’ Vince McMahon, or vice versa.
You’re truth may actually be truth but if all you do is scream and act like a cunt, it will be falling on deaf ears. Especially to someone who’s been convinced of the oppposite by nefarious actors
66% of the budget goes to entitlement spending, all created by one party. It pays people to do things they can, and should, do for themselves.
If I go to the grocery store and spend more money than usual on tomatoes, I'll come home with more tomatoes.
When government pays people for making bad life choices, guess what happens?
Blaming only team blue is your problem. Team red is complicit as well, all they’re doing is saying the things to snag you hook, line, & sinker. Who do you think bragged about signing the biggest spending bill in history in 2016? I’ll give you a hint: it wasn’t a team blue president
If you want to make an argument that will land easier to the other side, find some sort of common ground and explain how gov policy is the culprit. Or at least attack an argument your opposition agrees with from their point of view
No doubt red is complicit, they're just not quite as bad.
My opposition only wants to shirk responsibility and get free stuff. Arguing from their point of view is tantamount to arguing with a burglar as to why he shouldn't take a TV.
Because money, and interest potential, is being taken from me against my will to fund the life of someone else. It is the literal definition of socialism its called SOCIAL security for fucks sake.
I could do a hell of a lot better investing my 9k/year myself.
That’s not all they want to do. Well, maybe…
“The left” traditionally has valued civil liberties and being anti-war . It should be easy enough to explain how their precious big gov programs are harming civil liberties but also escalating war and harming the absolutely destitute in other parts of the world. Or how their support for laws, regulations, & penalties on “the corporations” is ultimately hurting or destroying small businesses which in turn makes the largest corporations stronger
That was some old democrats back when liberal still meant maximum personal freedom instead of woke nonsense.
If JFK were alive today and said ask not what your country can do for you, he'd get kicked out of the party.
It should be obvious to anyone the pitiful shape the country is in under pedopotao and the democrap leadership, yet PA elected a guy with brain damage to keep the gravy train rolling.
Once again, both sides are responsible for this fucking disaster. Just because a team blue is sitting in the chair right now doesn’t mean a fucking thing. There’s been enough aisle crossing and collusion for so many decades it should be obvious to anyone that neither side cares about actual results. It may actually be worse for the team reds. They may say they care about personal liberty and a limited gov but their actions for many years say the exact opposite.
With some obvious exceptions like homeland security, the reds forced welfare reform, and cut taxes and regulations. Do I think they're going far enough, absolutely not.
The irony of the 18 to 24 year old demographic voting for all this free stuff assures that later in life they will be mere serfs to the system they voted for. Life is a bitch and then you die.
Of course you realize we all have paid into social security with every pay check ever made.We already feel like serfs to Boomers. Here are the cold hard facts:
It's the line on your W4 that says "SSI".
So....exactly how are YOU paying for anyone else's social security ?
The only part of it that you will be paying on is that the politicians keep ripping off the fund for whatever pork project and never pay it back.
So, someone has to.
Don't be pissed at the old folks on SS.....be pissed at the politicians for fucking you....dry....with no reach around.
Many old folks, my relatives included, vote for “security” because they are terrified of being old. That vote condemns me and especially their grandkids to misery.
Hey Moomer/Zoomer, you're a selfish idiot, because less than twenty percent of the population has student loans, while everyone that makes it to retirement age will need/want social security and medicare benefits. Democrat trickery to pay off student loans is nothing less than a vote buying scheme.
Also, student loans are used with the understanding they must be paid back; Social Security is paid into and there's a contract between the people and government that it'll be there when people retire.
You're welcome.
signed: a Gen X'er
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OK, Social Security. How many of you have heard of Title XIX of the Social Security Act? This is Medicaid, NOT Medicare. Medicaid is basically welfare. It not only pays for people living in and receiving services for mental retardation, but people in nursing homes, as well as medical services for anyone receiving welfare and those who fall below a certain income and age limit who receive SSI (Not Social Security but a Medicaid program for the very poor aged.). Keep in mind, again, except for the SSI folks, most Medicaid recipients have never contributed one penny to fund the benefits they receive.
This is a huge chunk of the Social Security monies. It costs somewhere between $4000.00 and up to provide for the care of one mentally retarded individual in a community home or large facility for EACH and EVERY month of every year. Some programs do a fabulous job of providing care for those individuals and some do a lousy job and most do ok. Some make money, some programs do an ok job and one of the worst programs begs for extra money for donations and does a lousy job. What most folks don’t understand is that a program making money is not based on the quality of care. I know, before I retired and went into teaching, I monitored those programs funding and knew exactly where the bucks were going. One of the best two programs i monitored made a great income, putting almost all of their money into care for the individuals. The worst, had a beautiful office, filled with well paid office stall and department heads and their community homes were frankly lousy.
And then we have Medicaid health care. It is a 100 percent care for children on welfare but does not cover dental or eyeglasses for adults, but pretty much covers everything else. Been to a doctor lately, it isn’t free.
Now, lets go to another path. I am now retired, totally retired. We both worked long enough and saved enough and scrimped enough that we live comfortably. But, I am on Medicare. Not by choice mind you but yes, Brenda and I are on my Medicare account. What a total bitch. I was told by my helath insurance that when I retired and became eligible to be on Medicare, I had to apply for and use Medicare. The health insurance provider said that when i did they would reduce my monthly bill. And they did, by a little. However, not nearly enough to cover the cost of the required Medicare. I receive no better coverage, but pay hundreds more each year for the exact same health care coverage as before. Except, now the Health Insurance and Medicare are always arguing as to who has to pay first, which of course, always bounces back to Brenda and myself. If I could, I would drop that nonesense, but doing so means I lose any health coverage I have. Waht a bunch of bullshit.
So, if you don’t like paying for our health care (and frankly I pay each and every month whether I want to or not as well, Medicare is not free) and the pitiful few dollars I receive each month from quarters I started paying for when i became legally able to be paid (16, two years after I started working) Talk to Your Senator and Your Congressmen about getting Title XIX funded from another source.
This is a huge chunk of the Social Security monies. It costs somewhere between $4000.00 and up to provide for the care of one mentally retarded individual in a community home or large facility for EACH and EVERY month of every year. Some programs do a fabulous job of providing care for those individuals and some do a lousy job and most do ok. Some make money, some programs do an ok job and one of the worst programs begs for extra money for donations and does a lousy job. What most folks don’t understand is that a program making money is not based on the quality of care. I know, before I retired and went into teaching, I monitored those programs funding and knew exactly where the bucks were going. One of the best two programs i monitored made a great income, putting almost all of their money into care for the individuals. The worst, had a beautiful office, filled with well paid office stall and department heads and their community homes were frankly lousy.
And then we have Medicaid health care. It is a 100 percent care for children on welfare but does not cover dental or eyeglasses for adults, but pretty much covers everything else. Been to a doctor lately, it isn’t free.
Now, lets go to another path. I am now retired, totally retired. We both worked long enough and saved enough and scrimped enough that we live comfortably. But, I am on Medicare. Not by choice mind you but yes, Brenda and I are on my Medicare account. What a total bitch. I was told by my helath insurance that when I retired and became eligible to be on Medicare, I had to apply for and use Medicare. The health insurance provider said that when i did they would reduce my monthly bill. And they did, by a little. However, not nearly enough to cover the cost of the required Medicare. I receive no better coverage, but pay hundreds more each year for the exact same health care coverage as before. Except, now the Health Insurance and Medicare are always arguing as to who has to pay first, which of course, always bounces back to Brenda and myself. If I could, I would drop that nonesense, but doing so means I lose any health coverage I have. Waht a bunch of bullshit.
So, if you don’t like paying for our health care (and frankly I pay each and every month whether I want to or not as well, Medicare is not free) and the pitiful few dollars I receive each month from quarters I started paying for when i became legally able to be paid (16, two years after I started working) Talk to Your Senator and Your Congressmen about getting Title XIX funded from another source.
What a thing to be upset over and devote your time to. Our generation is fckd. Our elders are better and smarter than us in every way dude. And no I ain't being sarcastic about that. I was born too late...
This ^ .
AND, women have a choice to:
1) have sex or not
2) use birth control or not
Other than cases of incest, rape, and health of the mother- abortion/murdering "babies in the womb" should be illegal.
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Just one minor quibble. It should only be an option if the mother’s life is in danger. Rape shouldn’t be a consideration, full stop. Incest may not be something the mother/family wants to deal with but there will be someone who is willing to take care of the baby. Kerry Baldwin of the Libertarian Christian Institute has written and debated this topic a bit and makes a very good argument
Kerry Baldwin, Author at Libertarian Christian Institute
libertarianchristians.com
Just make it so if the mom wants to kill the babe, the mom has to die too.
Honestly I ain't even really that bullish on abortion one way or the other. To me it's just.. as I said, what a fckn thing to devote your time to LOL. Protesting for women's right to kill their children...
The only way up shut up the lefties is to say you give them rape, incest, and health of the mother as immediate abortion on demand. The fact is that those situations are a minuscule slice of the abortion pie chart. Abortion actually was originally driven by the goal to stop the poor and minorities reproducing their systemic shitty lives.Just one minor quibble. It should only be an option if the mother’s life is in danger. Rape shouldn’t be a consideration, full stop. Incest may not be something the mother/family wants to deal with but there will be someone who is willing to take care of the baby. Kerry Baldwin of the Libertarian Christian Institute has written and debated this topic a bit and makes a very good argument
Kerry Baldwin, Author at Libertarian Christian Institute
I don’t give a fuck about the mental gymnastics these lunatics jump through to justify murder. It doesn’t matter what percentage those situations are, it’s still murder and it’s murdering the most innocent humans imaginable
Just one minor quibble. It should only be an option if the mother’s life is in danger. Rape shouldn’t be a consideration, full stop. Incest may not be something the mother/family wants to deal with but there will be someone who is willing to take care of the baby. Kerry Baldwin of the Libertarian Christian Institute has written and debated this topic a bit and makes a very good argument
Kerry Baldwin, Author at Libertarian Christian Institute
I would very much disagree with you.
You are demanding that the government force someone to accept lifelong consequences for a crime committed against them.
You'll find that most moral and Christian folks who are not wackjob crazy misogynists, understand that sometimes things have to be done and in the case of rape, or incest having an abortion is the lesser of the two evils and is up to the woman involved. Much as if an abortion is needed to protect the life or health of the mother, or the baby has no real chance of survival.
I'll bet you are also one of those folks that loves and worships the Draft and things the government should force the young into slavery at gunpoint to go murder and be murdered in "glorious wars" for the benefit of the rich and powerful. I'll bet you also don't have any problem with the police murdering folks because "I was in fear of my life"...
Nah, man. Taking a human life in the form of abortion is murder.
If forced to choose between the rape or incest scenarios(but both scenarios are immoral) I’d lean towards murder being less bad in case of incest. That at least raises the chance of the child’s life being compromised.
But an abortion after a rape is the ultimate punishment for the absolute most innocent person involved in the situation. The person found guilty must be held accountable for their crime. Whatever that means should be up to the victim. If that means paying for everything while the child grows to adulthood, so be it. If that means physical punishment, so be it. That crime should be considered one of the most horrific possible to be committed against someone else(rape or abortion, I guess).
If you’re interested in a much better explanation than I’m capable of, check out the debate between Kerry Baldwin & Walter Block and her other articles on the subject.
Said like a man who has no understanding of what it's actually like for rape victims and what it would really mean for women to be forced by the government to have to bear the children of rapists...
I don't care what your elitist "moralists" blather on about.
Typical sanctimonious filth that care nothing about the suffering of others and human misery so long as they in their self-righteous filthy way feel morally justified.
That's why it's good we have religious freedom so the wack jobs that want the government to oppress others on their behalf at least have a lot of hurdles to get through.
I'll bet those same "moralists" don't have too much of a problem with all the "innocent children" that our "glorious soldiers" murder "on accident" because "well they were in the way"...
Unless they are going to go start holding our military and police accountable for every innocent they kill and demanding punishment for it, well then they can shove their B.S. up their backside.
Do you hear what you’re saying? Justifying murdering an innocent human, that’s all I hear. And your misplaced “gov oppression” argument is exactly that. You’re justifying a gov sanctioned murder
So what are you going to do about all the innocent humans that our soldiers murder in war and the police murder while "doing their duty"?
What punishment are you going to demand and enforce for soldiers and police who kill someone innocent (and NO, "just following orders" won't be allowed as an excuse)?
How about you deal with that first and then you can get around to pontificating about what you demand women who are the victims of crime must endure.
I'm stating the above to prove to you that both you and most of society are perfectly fine with innocent people getting killed for almost no reason so long as there is some "good excuse".
Or we could simply say how about if your wife, your mother, your daughter gets raped, you can force them to have the rapist's child and deal with how that will totally affect their life in a negative way for their entire life. YOU can then be responsible for their lives, their mental health, their physical health, any consequences to their health, their earnings, their support, their employment, their personal lives, since YOU were the one who demanded the government force them to have a rapist's child.
The rest of us will understand that Abortion is not a good thing, but in some cases such as rape, incest, the life and health of the mother and non-viability, that is something that the woman involved will need to decide for herself and that most of us are perfectly good with that.
Some of us might even prefer to not let the seed of a wicked man grow into fruit.
I think you need to re-visit all of my gov-bashing content because you’re very obviously confusing me with someone else
I don’t understand how you can rattle on about “innocent humans murdered by police/soldiers” but then be ok with an innocent human who just happens to be in a womb and can’t defend itself being murdered
I will absolutely cater to every whim of any female in my life that is put through that, except getting an abortion. My wife feels the same way as well, so you can spare the rest of us with that argument
You are equating student loan fiasco with Social Security? Not good! With that said, this is just another optic designed to foment hate amongst different groups in the US. Keep us fighting each other so we don't band together and fix the issues.We already feel like serfs to Boomers. Here are the cold hard facts:
You and those who think like you on the matter are perfectly welcome to do as you feel best for you.
(just so long as you aren't oppressing or forcing your women)
I have no problem with that and am perfectly happy to leave you be in peace to do as you wish, that is up to your own conscience.
I'm perfectly happy with you being free to act as you believe God wants you to, for your own selves.
However, you will find those who share my view (which greatly outnumber those sharing your view) also will demand the same in return from you.
Many of us also have our own faith and our own belief in God and believe that in the listed circumstances, abortion is one of several valid choices, in response to very unfortunate circumstances.
If one of the women in my life or who I care about or am responsible for, is the victim of rape or incest and wishes to get an abortion, I will support their carefully considered decision without reservation. Just the same as if a pregnancy is threatening their health or life, or if the pregnancy is not viable, I would also support their carefully considered decision to get an abortion without reservation.
Now if the folks that think like you decide to forcibly impose their will and their own interpretation of doctrine on those I care about, and persecute, threaten or intimidate someone I care about in the above circumstances or try to force them to have the child against their will, then all civility is over.
Since they decided to use force and threats of deadly violence (usually they want some uniform hangers to do it for them because they aren't willing to do things themselves), then they will find force is going to become a two way street and the violence they want done to others to enforce their will, will also be done to them and theirs, to enforce the will of others.
So I suggest the best course of action in the above clearly listed circumstances, is to simply leave it up to the individuals to do as they decide best with their own conscience and their own faith. Or everyone can go back to the days when folks were busy killing over interpretations of faith and morals.
There are some things where people will never be able to come to agreement on and in such cases, the best solution is you do you and yours, and we do us and ours, and neither has to like the other side's opinion.
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This is one of the dumbest posts I have ever seen. It is extremely simple math.We already feel like serfs to Boomers. Here are the cold hard facts:
Social Security was stolen from our checks, and I would like it back. In fact, I would like it all back right now. That way I can invest it, where it would actually grow.
A student loan was borrowed from a lender. The person that borrowed it, owes it back to the lender. It is no one else's job to pay it back, except the borrower. Every dime I have borrowed, for anything, it has been my job to pay back. And I have. No one else.
If the Social Security account is not square, it is because the government stole from us a second time. And they blew the money they stole. They owe it back to the people they stole it from. Twice!!!
Signed,
Another Gen-Xer
It’s kind of weird to see someone defend a gov sanctioned policy that legalizes murder, especially from someone who seems to be as critical of gov policies as you are
mules + 20 million illegal voters or more scattered across the country moved by bus where ever they are needed to swing a state pretty much any state . like I always say when you can print off as many votes as you need to win your going to win and the rips have done nothing to prevent any of it . did they not learn the last two elections , funny .
A person who is also going to be a Social Security burden on the generations younger than them, but is somehow pretending they're not.
You actually have that backwards, YOU want government control.
What I'm saying is that in those cases, the government can stay the HELL OUT OF IT.
The decision in the above clearly delineated cases, should be left SOLEY to the woman involved, and her chosen medical professionals.
The government should have no say in it.
The government should not pay for it or ban it or pick any stance on it other than it's between private parties of the woman and her chosen medical professionals. And the police and government thugs should NOT have any ability to go oppressing anyone over either side.
What YOU want is government intervention, YOU want the government to make it illegal. YOU want the government to enforce it by using uniform hangers with guns and threats of death to force a victim of a crime to have to deal with it the rest of their lives because you think it's best.
I'm not sure how you don't understand that it's YOU that want the government involved.
The government can simply stay the complete hell out of it and leave it between the woman and the medical professionals who wish to help resolve the issue in a permanent way.
The government only gets involved if people demand the government use force and threats to ban it.
What too many "good folks" don't ever understand is that almost all of the "government overreach" and "government oppression" that they complain about is directly because those same "good folks" demanded government intrusion in everyone's lives, demanded men with guns go oppress others, all for the noble cause of "stopping others doing what we don't think they should do because we don't like it."
For fuck’s sake, man. YOU are talking about killing babies. I am saying that shouldn’t be allowed. Is murder illegal, or not? Do you think murder should be illegal? If you think it shouldn’t be legal then why are you pushing for the policy that sanctions it?
And for the record, I know we’re talking about a very small number but the fact it’s still ok in any capacity is very disturbing. Civilized societies absolutely should not condone murder in any form or fashion
Humans killing other humans is never a great idea, but since the dawn of time it's often been the only way to resolve things past a certain point or to bring an end to something bad.
Just like that, abortions are not a great idea, but sometimes when a pregnancy is the result of crime, evil and violence, it's the only way to end the chain of events.
I, as well as many others, consider abortions in the first 3 to 4 months to be quite a lot different than abortions later on in the pregnancy, which gives women who are the victims of crime a pretty big amount of time to decide what they want to do.
Remember it's not like pregnancies don't often fail just naturally, especially in the early months, the emotions involved in early stage miscarriages are a lot different than the emotions involved in late term miscarriages or stillbirths (I speak from direct observational experience on that).
In the case of when an abortion is needed to protect the life and health of the mother or when what was the baby is no longer viable, then that can happen at almost any stage of the pregnancy and it is what it is and what must be done must be done, often in a great hurry, without people not involved trying to say what should and shouldn't happen. It has to be left between the woman and her chosen medical professionals alone.
If you can get rid of all rape and all abuse of children and those not mentally competent and have 100% reliable, free birth control and advance medicine to where there is no danger of complications in pregnancy then the problem almost goes away on it's own.
Until then, it's a bad world, and while not the best option, sometimes the only way to give a woman who is a victim of a sex crime a chance at a normal life is to end the pregnancy if she so wishes.
There is also a certain moralistic view on it being somewhat just to not let a wicked man have seed on the earth.
If that means cutting off their unborn seed from the earth, well so be it.
The actual number of abortions due to pregnancies caused by rape or incest abuse of children is small, but such things do happen and until it never happens, there needs to be the choice for the victim to chose to end the chain of events permanently and not be victimized any longer.
I don't think you and I will ever agree on it.
You'll find almost all faiths and just about any mainstream or major Christian denomination, even many very strict ones, all agree that even if you believe abortions are wrong in the general sense, in the case of rape or criminal incest abuse of children or mentally handicapped folks, abortion is something that must be an option at the female victim's sole discretion.
I have no problem if you wish to present your viewpoint respectfully to victims of sexual crimes and abuse and tell them your way and offer that you will cover all their costs, all their risk, all their loss, that you will work and pay to find a way to get their complete lives in all aspects back to how it would have been without a pregnancy and ensure the matter is resolved in finality without an abortion.
But if they decline your offer and wish to have an abortion, well then that's life and the wages of sin are death, sometimes death for the innocent, that's just the way of the world until there is no more evil.
The obvious analogy I see here is the treatment of symptoms instead of the root cause, sort of.
The act of a woman killing her baby isn’t going to relieve her of her pain. In fact, it very well could introduce more pain when she realizes what she did. The better way would be to make the piece of shit who assaulted her pay in whatever form she deems necessary. She also needs counseling to help her through the ordeal. If she still can’t accept having a child from being raped then am adopting family needs to be found and she can have a c-section when the baby is old enough and the adopting family can continue the babies care. This country is already full of families looking to adopt children but the gov programs taking care of this process is, predictably, a fucking nightmare.
Now, I’m sure I’m going to get some feeble argument that this plan of mine is a pipe dream or that I think it is the be all, end all plan. This is just a mixture of things I’ve heard floated around and what I could come up with typing this out. It’s in no way a representation of THE plan. I’m of the opinion that there should be as many ways as possible to solve this problem as easily and as supportively to the victims as possible. I’m also not so naive to think abortions will ever go away completely, but I can always hope for less children being killed no matter what.
How is the rapist supposed to pay her whatever she wants if they are in jail or punished or don't actually have anything of value?
Most rapists aren't wealthy, successful folks with lots of assets.
Actually I would say for some women getting an abortion right away actually would take a way a lot of the pain that they would otherwise endure. It's a definitive act of taking back control of your own body and putting an end to the seed of an evil man and denying evil a chance to glory in the fruits of their evil. It's a great way to tell an evil man, that no, his seed is cut off from the earth and you will not allow his line to continue.
That alone would probably be more of a help to many rape victims than a lifetime of counseling.
Tough luck for the unborn child, but they were conceived by sin and evil, so they have to go back to start and wait for another go at being born.
You think "counselling" is some kind of magic cure that actually works like in some movie? HA!
Oh and now you want the victim of a terrible crime to be all cut up and scarred from surgery as well?
Not to mention the extra pain and suffering in recovering from that?
I'm guessing who cares about heaping extra pain and disfigurement on women who were the victims of crime?
Let me guess, your next act will be to imprison them to "keep them from harming themselves" because who cares about the actual victim (the woman)?
The problem with your stance is in the end you are ALL about not allowing the woman who is the victim of a crime to control her own destiny and demanding that she be forced to submit to whatever ideas you have.
The good news however is that this discussion is of no consequence, abortion in the cases of rape and child sexual abuse and the health and safety of the mother is here to stay and no amount of misguided morals is going to change that. Too many folks understand the need for it and why it needs to be available.
I don’t particularly care how the rapist pays. I’m ok with his rights being entirely forfeited after a crime like this. An idea I’ve heard floated out regarding this is that some group(churches or mutual aid societies are a few options) would take the responsibility then work out some deal with the criminal after the fact
Do you believe in the old adage that two wrongs don’t make a right? This scenario is you thinking that two of the worst wrongs in the world will make something right.
Abortion for Rape Victims: Good or Bad?
Abortions due to rape may seem like a good, easy way to help a victimized woman. But according to experts, rape victims are more in need of...
www.hli.org
Do you have any idea how badly those "church groups" and "mutual aid groups" have historically treated victimized women who were pregnant?
Few folks are worse in their treatment of "fallen women" than self-righteous "good people".
The horror stories I could tell you of what happens to rape and abuse victims in the hands of "church types"... but you wouldn't care about their suffering or the cruelty done to them.
Blaming the victim and making the victim to feel they are the one who was wrong is a long tradition and history in "church groups".
You have no idea how your idea would actually, work, it's some pie in the sky idea that like communism, falls flat on its face when it hits reality.
Work out some deal with the criminal for what? How is that supposed to work out? Nope you don't have a clue.
Do you have any idea how stingy most "church groups" are with their "help" and how much they use it to try to have total control of others?
Well sometimes you do actually have do something that would normally be wrong if done alone, in order to cancel out the whole mess of evil, in many cases. Folks have no problem with that in the name of "justice" or "glorious war", this is just down to a more personal level. Even in the beginning of the Bible, God had no problem killing the children of folks He didn't like or ordering them to be slaughtered. Cutting off the seed of the wicked was a righteous thing to do all back in the first half of the book.
Abortion for Rape Victims: Good or Bad?
Abortions due to rape may seem like a good, easy way to help a victimized woman. But according to experts, rape victims are more in need of...
That's pretty much just a bunch of Catholic B.S. all about punishing the woman because she didn't fight to the death to not be raped and is guilty of still being alive. The Catholic Church is pretty much ground zero for raping folks in the guise of religion so tough luck. But you'll find the current Catholic Church leadership at the very top are not too stridently against abortion in the cases of rape or criminal sex crimes against children anymore.
(Something about the stupendous hypocrisy of it being a bit too much to cover up anymore.)
Plus, over 1500 years, the Catholic church has murdered or ordered the murder of more innocent people, including children than most possibly could understand.
The basic premise I start from is that you cannot force someone to become pregnant and have a child against their will. If you force them to become pregnant against their will, then they have a right to put an end to the whole mess as they see fit and if that means killing off the seed of the rapist, well that's just good old testament justice and such is their choice.
Your premise is that a woman that is the victim of a crime has NO ability to make her own choices about her body and what goes on with it and in it, but rather must after being stripped of their will, their choice and violated by some man, must now be stripped of their freedom, their choice, their future and their dignity by a bunch of other men who only care about themselves and their supposed virtue.
And of course in the end, you want the government to "make it illegal" which means, oh right, a bunch of uniform hangers with guns willing to murder folks who don't agree to submit to the tyrants...
Don't try to sugar coat it and mince words, when you want something to be "Illegal" you want the government to send thugs with guns to oppress, threaten and possibly murder folks in order to make them not do what you don't want them to do or do what you demand they do.
So in the end you are actually advocating tyranny, violence and threats of murder by a bunch of uniform hangers to make victims of crime do what you want them to do...
