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PRS Talk Mulligans?....Really
- Thread starter backsideof45
- Start date
They are going away. For every pussy out there shooting them at a match or two there are 100 more pussies out there whining about how the Mulligans touched their girly parts.
If it weren't for Mulligans there would have been hundreds of shooters who would have won a Winnebago at the Finale instead of having to settle for an MDT magazine and a t-shirt.
I didnt want you to take that wrong, so I deleted it. But I wasn't sure if you were actually shooting PRS or not.
Got nothing to do with how mulligans touched anything and you can make light of it but with the way they are bought. Nothing to do with the match but with money. Shoot the match and take your points. Don’t buy a better spot.
And no I am not a PRS member but I shoot matches.
Not a PRS member, so no vested interested in how the PRS chooses to run their matches, or how it shakes out for year-end standings. Glad you made your opinion clear.
I pretty much addressed "buying a better spot" above. In that respect I agree with you.
Mulligans are just this month's poster child that ignores the real problem.
I have a vested interest in how matches I shoot shake out. Been shooting them for 19 years with no mulligans but now we need mulligans. Lol Save the bullshit for someone who will believe you or doesn’t know any better. I am neither.
The Redskins needed a whole bunch of Mulligans last night!!!
I do want all my land back...if y'all could leave by tomorrow that would be good
I dont know who said that, but no, thats not true.
The weapon was unloaded, mag out, bolt open.
Regardless not a good practice to get into imo.
All this nonsense about making things fair and equitable across the board is faggotry. If I show up with a Caldwell bag and a RPR as a new shooter and im at a match with a bunch of seasoned shooters with great equipment am I gonna have a chance at winning? NO. But to me that was the cool part. I might show up to a 2 day match and get to be around PRO shooters and learn something. Tell me where else you can roll up and do that. You ain't going to a Lakers game and walking out on the court and saying I want to play. So things at fair just like life isn't fair. Mulligans are small potatoes, who cares
I competed with handguns for 15 years and rifles another 10 years. Recently, I have been considering which precision rifle discipline I want to dive into and find this thread interesting.
If the wind blows your target over, cattle enter the range or something way beyond your control occurs, I can see giving you the opportunity to reshoot a stage. If you fumble a reload or do something else that is within your control, I can't understand why they would allow you to reshoot a stage.
If the wind blows your target over, cattle enter the range or something way beyond your control occurs, I can see giving you the opportunity to reshoot a stage. If you fumble a reload or do something else that is within your control, I can't understand why they would allow you to reshoot a stage.
Yes. Yes you do. People get DQ'd and other forget to bring enough ammo.
Also, if you give the top 5 guys your gun and bag, and they give you their gun and ALL their gear... Will you beat them ?
Be less shit.
I have been to 12 matchs this year and have yet to see the top 25 guys get DQ or not bring enough ammo so the next 40 guys can have a chance at winning. Practice is how you improve and like a said mulligans are a non issue. Have em, don't have em, don't care
He wouldn’t beat them. But give someone a Caldwell bag…..they ain’t gonna win either.
Gear does matter. Not as much as some want to believe, but it definitely does matter.
Amen brotha. That's what most people think. Only a select few see other wise. They must have got picked on in high school
A. The people you think are "PRO" shooters are not, at least not in any accurate way. Being more dedicated and better than you at a hobby doesn't make one a "pro"
B. You can do the same thing you're talking about in every shooting sport I've participated in: NRA rifle, USPSA, IDPA, and NSCA Sporting Clays. Not only do you stand a very good chance to see the very top practitioners in the larger matches, you can even squad with them (I have), watch them shoot, learn from them, and even converse with them like normal human beings.
And what's your point? You just said the same thing I did. I have spoken to alot of PRO shooters at matchs, I had one come and help me get my rifle back up when it went down. I don't shoot those other disciplines so I cannot speak to what goes on at those, this whole issue with mulligans is people whining and crying over nonsense. If I'm at a match that has them then I will use them. It's part of the game. If they don't have em them then they don't. It's stupid to even argue about it
The point is PRS is far from unique in that regard
Professionals get paid enough to make a living at something. A guy with a jersey with a bunch of advertisements on it is not a professional cause he sure as shit not making enough money to live on from shooting. "Pro" is a label applied to people who are good by those who are not.
Do overs because you suck don't belong in any sport worthy of the title.
Not a sport, it's a game, and you play by the rules, if MD allows a do over then it's fair game
Stupid, but fair.
I could see a place for them in outlaw matches as fundraisers, but in a national series sport? pass.
I once allowed a girl a fourth strike in summer camp. Doesn't mean its a good idea in little league, high school, college, or the pros.
Okay, I'm WAAAY late to the party here (have been out of town) but wanted to add a note as a "food for thought" since I'm someone who has looked at the scores and statistics of PRS a fair bit.
At matches where mulligans were in play everyone who wanted to buy one did and the limit was 1 mulligan per shooter. If you bombed a stage you could pull out your mulligan and immediately reshoot the stage, then you keep your 2nd score on the stage no matter whether better or worse. The real question is... What do mulligans do to score distribution?
My thinking is that there is an element of skill to using a mulligan to enhance your score. First, you have to strategically use it at the right time... is this stage likely to be your lowest scoring stage? If you reshoot right now what are the odds that your score will be higher? Did everyone else around you score much better or did everyone just get equally wind-screwed? Second, there is some skill to actually being able to improve the score when you decide to reshoot. Can you diagnose why you missed and how to fix it right now in the 30 seconds? What are you going to do differently the second time around? Finally, there is a huge amount of mental toughness required in that moment. You just shot what might be your worst stage of the match, you're flustered, and now you need to perfectly execute the reshoot. This is why you often see people get worse scores on their mulligan.
While there is not data out there for this, I would strongly suspect that if you listed all the shooters who used their mulligan and ranked them based on the number of points they added to their score, on average the more skilled shooters would also be more skilled in "pulling points" out of their mulligan. And if this is true, then the net result is that mulligans would serve as a further separator of score distribution... resulting in LOWER scores on average for anyone who wasn't the winner of the match.
So my suspicion is that mulligans' effect on scores is probably the exact opposite of what people initially thought when they heard about them and raised them as an issue.
Disclosure: I shoot lots of PRS matches in the West where there are mulligans, I have bought mulligans probably about 1/3 of the time when available, and have used about half the time when I bought them. I voted against mulligans... not because of fairness or score distribution, but because I think they slow down match flow and because I prefer to see consistency rewarded - ie. don't mess up in the first place.
At matches where mulligans were in play everyone who wanted to buy one did and the limit was 1 mulligan per shooter. If you bombed a stage you could pull out your mulligan and immediately reshoot the stage, then you keep your 2nd score on the stage no matter whether better or worse. The real question is... What do mulligans do to score distribution?
My thinking is that there is an element of skill to using a mulligan to enhance your score. First, you have to strategically use it at the right time... is this stage likely to be your lowest scoring stage? If you reshoot right now what are the odds that your score will be higher? Did everyone else around you score much better or did everyone just get equally wind-screwed? Second, there is some skill to actually being able to improve the score when you decide to reshoot. Can you diagnose why you missed and how to fix it right now in the 30 seconds? What are you going to do differently the second time around? Finally, there is a huge amount of mental toughness required in that moment. You just shot what might be your worst stage of the match, you're flustered, and now you need to perfectly execute the reshoot. This is why you often see people get worse scores on their mulligan.
While there is not data out there for this, I would strongly suspect that if you listed all the shooters who used their mulligan and ranked them based on the number of points they added to their score, on average the more skilled shooters would also be more skilled in "pulling points" out of their mulligan. And if this is true, then the net result is that mulligans would serve as a further separator of score distribution... resulting in LOWER scores on average for anyone who wasn't the winner of the match.
So my suspicion is that mulligans' effect on scores is probably the exact opposite of what people initially thought when they heard about them and raised them as an issue.
Disclosure: I shoot lots of PRS matches in the West where there are mulligans, I have bought mulligans probably about 1/3 of the time when available, and have used about half the time when I bought them. I voted against mulligans... not because of fairness or score distribution, but because I think they slow down match flow and because I prefer to see consistency rewarded - ie. don't mess up in the first place.
Everyone can piss and moan all they want to. But mulligans are no longer allowed in PRS sanctioned matches. I know things. #hotoffthepress. Democracy at its best lol
Didn't care either way. What will be the next big thing people bitch about?
We did vote them out. It was the closest vote I've seen at that level. So much so that I think we almost considered just leaving them be.
At the end of the day I think we let the vote stand because it wasn't that big a deal. No one absolutely had their heart set on keeping them.
Funny watching everyone bitch about them though..
At the end of the day I think we let the vote stand because it wasn't that big a deal. No one absolutely had their heart set on keeping them.
Funny watching everyone bitch about them though..
Seeing some of the Fb comments about them, it seems like lower midpack shooters who have shot for less than 2 yaers thought they were being robbed of a trophy because of 1 mulligan being used on the other side of the country. Just absolutely ridiculous arguments being made, and it was definitely a “Karen” pushing it hard.
Won’t make any difference whatsoever to the good shooters at all.
I just don’t see how the vote was even close. One of the draws to this sport and what’s making it grow so much and the popularity is the semi professionalism. When you add in mulligans and chairs on chains for shooting positions, it makes jt gimmicky and to much like putt putt not like the PGA. And i would like the sport to stay like the PGA
Got to make the east coast matches somewhat challenging
. Matches in the west generally start at 10mph winds, which would likely make more than 1 East Coast shooter start to cry.
That sums it up nicely..
It wasn't close because a whole lot of people understand they don't make a difference in the scoring.
Which at the end of the day is the reason a lot of people didn't care if they stayed or went. Which is why I found it funny that so many people bitched about them like they actually mattered.
I'm just glad this is over so now we can fix climate change to make the wind more fair
. Because not all can act like adults.Let’s build windmills on the ranges, mount targets on the blades, and then we can fix climate change by playing putt putt PRS.I'm just glad this is over so now we can fix climate change to make the wind more fair
Weird you would call out Rob O for not being a PRS member, who is pretty well known competitor, when you are also not a member?
Well I'm signed up now after changing my match schedule. Still shot PRS matches last year without being a member.
wow the number of wieners on here is astounding. dont like it? run your own match. that is (was?) the beauty of the PRS is the variety in matches so things dont become stale. thats the reason the NRL was made. they dont like being told what to do.
having a $$ maker to reshoot 1/20 stage (I would say the % of people who shoot a better score is much smaller than most think) is bad???
meanwhile shooting 10 matches and taking best 3 = gud???
lolol hypocrites.
Only change I would make is no matter how many matches you shoot, your 3 scores will be your best score, your worst score, and the avg of all your scores.
(that way the PrS peeps still have reason to shoot more matches to bring the avg up)
Boom progress over night.
GL
DT
having a $$ maker to reshoot 1/20 stage (I would say the % of people who shoot a better score is much smaller than most think) is bad???
meanwhile shooting 10 matches and taking best 3 = gud???
lolol hypocrites.
Only change I would make is no matter how many matches you shoot, your 3 scores will be your best score, your worst score, and the avg of all your scores.
(that way the PrS peeps still have reason to shoot more matches to bring the avg up)
Boom progress over night.
GL
DT
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