Not a PRS member, so no vested interested in how the PRS chooses to run their matches, or how it shakes out for year-end standings. Glad you made your opinion clear.
PRS Talk Mulligans?....Really
- Thread starter backsideof45
- Start date
Not a PRS member, so no vested interested in how the PRS chooses to run their matches, or how it shakes out for year-end standings. Glad you made your opinion clear.
I have a vested interest in how matches I shoot shake out. Been shooting them for 19 years with no mulligans but now we need mulligans. Lol Save the bullshit for someone who will believe you or doesn’t know any better. I am neither.
The Redskins needed a whole bunch of Mulligans last night!!!
I do want all my land back...if y'all could leave by tomorrow that would be good
Regardless not a good practice to get into imo.
All this nonsense about making things fair and equitable across the board is faggotry. If I show up with a Caldwell bag and a RPR as a new shooter and im at a match with a bunch of seasoned shooters with great equipment am I gonna have a chance at winning? NO. But to me that was the cool part. I might show up to a 2 day match and get to be around PRO shooters and learn something. Tell me where else you can roll up and do that. You ain't going to a Lakers game and walking out on the court and saying I want to play. So things at fair just like life isn't fair. Mulligans are small potatoes, who cares
I competed with handguns for 15 years and rifles another 10 years. Recently, I have been considering which precision rifle discipline I want to dive into and find this thread interesting.
If the wind blows your target over, cattle enter the range or something way beyond your control occurs, I can see giving you the opportunity to reshoot a stage. If you fumble a reload or do something else that is within your control, I can't understand why they would allow you to reshoot a stage.
If the wind blows your target over, cattle enter the range or something way beyond your control occurs, I can see giving you the opportunity to reshoot a stage. If you fumble a reload or do something else that is within your control, I can't understand why they would allow you to reshoot a stage.
Yes. Yes you do. People get DQ'd and other forget to bring enough ammo.
Also, if you give the top 5 guys your gun and bag, and they give you their gun and ALL their gear... Will you beat them ?
Be less shit.
I have been to 12 matchs this year and have yet to see the top 25 guys get DQ or not bring enough ammo so the next 40 guys can have a chance at winning. Practice is how you improve and like a said mulligans are a non issue. Have em, don't have em, don't care
He wouldn’t beat them. But give someone a Caldwell bag…..they ain’t gonna win either.
Gear does matter. Not as much as some want to believe, but it definitely does matter.
Amen brotha. That's what most people think. Only a select few see other wise. They must have got picked on in high school
A. The people you think are "PRO" shooters are not, at least not in any accurate way. Being more dedicated and better than you at a hobby doesn't make one a "pro"
B. You can do the same thing you're talking about in every shooting sport I've participated in: NRA rifle, USPSA, IDPA, and NSCA Sporting Clays. Not only do you stand a very good chance to see the very top practitioners in the larger matches, you can even squad with them (I have), watch them shoot, learn from them, and even converse with them like normal human beings.
And what's your point? You just said the same thing I did. I have spoken to alot of PRO shooters at matchs, I had one come and help me get my rifle back up when it went down. I don't shoot those other disciplines so I cannot speak to what goes on at those, this whole issue with mulligans is people whining and crying over nonsense. If I'm at a match that has them then I will use them. It's part of the game. If they don't have em them then they don't. It's stupid to even argue about it
The point is PRS is far from unique in that regard
Professionals get paid enough to make a living at something. A guy with a jersey with a bunch of advertisements on it is not a professional cause he sure as shit not making enough money to live on from shooting. "Pro" is a label applied to people who are good by those who are not.
Do overs because you suck don't belong in any sport worthy of the title.
Not a sport, it's a game, and you play by the rules, if MD allows a do over then it's fair game
Stupid, but fair.
I could see a place for them in outlaw matches as fundraisers, but in a national series sport? pass.
I once allowed a girl a fourth strike in summer camp. Doesn't mean its a good idea in little league, high school, college, or the pros.
Okay, I'm WAAAY late to the party here (have been out of town) but wanted to add a note as a "food for thought" since I'm someone who has looked at the scores and statistics of PRS a fair bit.
At matches where mulligans were in play everyone who wanted to buy one did and the limit was 1 mulligan per shooter. If you bombed a stage you could pull out your mulligan and immediately reshoot the stage, then you keep your 2nd score on the stage no matter whether better or worse. The real question is... What do mulligans do to score distribution?
My thinking is that there is an element of skill to using a mulligan to enhance your score. First, you have to strategically use it at the right time... is this stage likely to be your lowest scoring stage? If you reshoot right now what are the odds that your score will be higher? Did everyone else around you score much better or did everyone just get equally wind-screwed? Second, there is some skill to actually being able to improve the score when you decide to reshoot. Can you diagnose why you missed and how to fix it right now in the 30 seconds? What are you going to do differently the second time around? Finally, there is a huge amount of mental toughness required in that moment. You just shot what might be your worst stage of the match, you're flustered, and now you need to perfectly execute the reshoot. This is why you often see people get worse scores on their mulligan.
While there is not data out there for this, I would strongly suspect that if you listed all the shooters who used their mulligan and ranked them based on the number of points they added to their score, on average the more skilled shooters would also be more skilled in "pulling points" out of their mulligan. And if this is true, then the net result is that mulligans would serve as a further separator of score distribution... resulting in LOWER scores on average for anyone who wasn't the winner of the match.
So my suspicion is that mulligans' effect on scores is probably the exact opposite of what people initially thought when they heard about them and raised them as an issue.
Disclosure: I shoot lots of PRS matches in the West where there are mulligans, I have bought mulligans probably about 1/3 of the time when available, and have used about half the time when I bought them. I voted against mulligans... not because of fairness or score distribution, but because I think they slow down match flow and because I prefer to see consistency rewarded - ie. don't mess up in the first place.
At matches where mulligans were in play everyone who wanted to buy one did and the limit was 1 mulligan per shooter. If you bombed a stage you could pull out your mulligan and immediately reshoot the stage, then you keep your 2nd score on the stage no matter whether better or worse. The real question is... What do mulligans do to score distribution?
My thinking is that there is an element of skill to using a mulligan to enhance your score. First, you have to strategically use it at the right time... is this stage likely to be your lowest scoring stage? If you reshoot right now what are the odds that your score will be higher? Did everyone else around you score much better or did everyone just get equally wind-screwed? Second, there is some skill to actually being able to improve the score when you decide to reshoot. Can you diagnose why you missed and how to fix it right now in the 30 seconds? What are you going to do differently the second time around? Finally, there is a huge amount of mental toughness required in that moment. You just shot what might be your worst stage of the match, you're flustered, and now you need to perfectly execute the reshoot. This is why you often see people get worse scores on their mulligan.
While there is not data out there for this, I would strongly suspect that if you listed all the shooters who used their mulligan and ranked them based on the number of points they added to their score, on average the more skilled shooters would also be more skilled in "pulling points" out of their mulligan. And if this is true, then the net result is that mulligans would serve as a further separator of score distribution... resulting in LOWER scores on average for anyone who wasn't the winner of the match.
So my suspicion is that mulligans' effect on scores is probably the exact opposite of what people initially thought when they heard about them and raised them as an issue.
Disclosure: I shoot lots of PRS matches in the West where there are mulligans, I have bought mulligans probably about 1/3 of the time when available, and have used about half the time when I bought them. I voted against mulligans... not because of fairness or score distribution, but because I think they slow down match flow and because I prefer to see consistency rewarded - ie. don't mess up in the first place.
Everyone can piss and moan all they want to. But mulligans are no longer allowed in PRS sanctioned matches. I know things. #hotoffthepress. Democracy at its best lol
Didn't care either way. What will be the next big thing people bitch about?
Seeing some of the Fb comments about them, it seems like lower midpack shooters who have shot for less than 2 yaers thought they were being robbed of a trophy because of 1 mulligan being used on the other side of the country. Just absolutely ridiculous arguments being made, and it was definitely a “Karen” pushing it hard.
Won’t make any difference whatsoever to the good shooters at all.
I just don’t see how the vote was even close. One of the draws to this sport and what’s making it grow so much and the popularity is the semi professionalism. When you add in mulligans and chairs on chains for shooting positions, it makes jt gimmicky and to much like putt putt not like the PGA. And i would like the sport to stay like the PGA
Got to make the east coast matches somewhat challenging
. Matches in the west generally start at 10mph winds, which would likely make more than 1 East Coast shooter start to cry.I'm just glad this is over so now we can fix climate change to make the wind more fair
. Because not all can act like adults.Let’s build windmills on the ranges, mount targets on the blades, and then we can fix climate change by playing putt putt PRS.I'm just glad this is over so now we can fix climate change to make the wind more fair
Weird you would call out Rob O for not being a PRS member, who is pretty well known competitor, when you are also not a member?
Well I'm signed up now after changing my match schedule. Still shot PRS matches last year without being a member.
wow the number of wieners on here is astounding. dont like it? run your own match. that is (was?) the beauty of the PRS is the variety in matches so things dont become stale. thats the reason the NRL was made. they dont like being told what to do.
having a $$ maker to reshoot 1/20 stage (I would say the % of people who shoot a better score is much smaller than most think) is bad???
meanwhile shooting 10 matches and taking best 3 = gud???
lolol hypocrites.
Only change I would make is no matter how many matches you shoot, your 3 scores will be your best score, your worst score, and the avg of all your scores.
(that way the PrS peeps still have reason to shoot more matches to bring the avg up)
Boom progress over night.
GL
DT
having a $$ maker to reshoot 1/20 stage (I would say the % of people who shoot a better score is much smaller than most think) is bad???
meanwhile shooting 10 matches and taking best 3 = gud???
lolol hypocrites.
Only change I would make is no matter how many matches you shoot, your 3 scores will be your best score, your worst score, and the avg of all your scores.
(that way the PrS peeps still have reason to shoot more matches to bring the avg up)
Boom progress over night.
GL
DT
It is amazing how many mid level people complain about the most trivial stuff, when there are such bigger issues with in the sport. But then again most people don't see the sport as a whole, only what it does for them. Heaven forbid we look at the sport as a whole and better it for everyone...
Of all the shit wrong with the sport this is the thing people are bitching about?
I think if they toss the money to the ROs it's well worth it for those poor bastards that sit around policing everyone since faggots gotta cheat to win instead of just shooting better.
It's a stupid thing to argue about. Personally I think the Mulligans and the 6 rounds for 5 targets kinda stages add a little bit of 'stategery' to the whole thing.
Whatevs. This kinda drama is why the sport is
Shoot the matches you want, stop giving money to PR firms, sorry I meant "Series" and get back to basics.If the match has truly gimmicky shit like chairs on chains, that's a clue. You're at the wrong match.
I haven’t read or looked at the updated ruling. Not that it really bothers me either way. Everyone will remain in their respective “pack” location unless their skill level increases or decreases.
However, I’m curious if the regional matches (both centerfire and rimfire) will be under the no mulligan rule?
Because all regional matches consist of is club matches that report to PRS and pay $3/per shooter at the match to cover the labor for scoring/website costs and such.
And most club matches are *not* being fueled by shooters wanting regional points. That’s typically the minority of shooters.
So, it it includes regional/club match stuff, it’s very possible that some MD’s will stop reporting their matches. Which in turn makes the current most popular league smaller. Regardless if you like or hate PRS, the “sport” grows when it grows and vice versa as long as they remain connected.
However, I’m curious if the regional matches (both centerfire and rimfire) will be under the no mulligan rule?
Because all regional matches consist of is club matches that report to PRS and pay $3/per shooter at the match to cover the labor for scoring/website costs and such.
And most club matches are *not* being fueled by shooters wanting regional points. That’s typically the minority of shooters.
So, it it includes regional/club match stuff, it’s very possible that some MD’s will stop reporting their matches. Which in turn makes the current most popular league smaller. Regardless if you like or hate PRS, the “sport” grows when it grows and vice versa as long as they remain connected.
This is definitely true. Skilled shooters familiar with mulligans will mostly use them on stages many wouldn’t understand.
The biggest example is the “long range stage” vs something like a traditional prs barricade stage.
Skilled shooters will take their 5/10 or 6/10 on the long range stage and use their mulligan if they get a 7 or 8/10 on prs barricade. Because the odds of doing well on second try are higher and the other skilled shooters will have cleaned it.
Long range mulligans end up keeping same score or dropping points fairly often due to wind and other such things than can hurt you pretty easily on those shots.
It’s also interesting that many against mulligans also didn’t like the “no gambling” or one point per impact and no loss of points rule.
Being able to take a hail mary shot (that at some matches can be worth as much as 10 points), is huge. Especially if there are multiple stages which allow it.
The arguments in favor of these gambling stages were much the same. “It’s a strategy” “it doesn’t always work in your favor” and “everyone else got the same opportunity.”
One could easily overcome several percentage points of a shooter with more total impacts in just a couple gambles. *That* definitely can influence outcomes far more than a mulligan where it’s typical only a small amount of points regained.
Being able to take a hail mary shot (that at some matches can be worth as much as 10 points), is huge. Especially if there are multiple stages which allow it.
The arguments in favor of these gambling stages were much the same. “It’s a strategy” “it doesn’t always work in your favor” and “everyone else got the same opportunity.”
One could easily overcome several percentage points of a shooter with more total impacts in just a couple gambles. *That* definitely can influence outcomes far more than a mulligan where it’s typical only a small amount of points regained.
Got all the good memes in 1 post....save some for the rest of us!! HAHAHA
Similar threads
