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wow the number of wieners on here is astounding. dont like it? run your own match. that is (was?) the beauty of the PRS is the variety in matches so things dont become stale. thats the reason the NRL was made. they dont like being told what to do.
having a $$ maker to reshoot 1/20 stage (I would say the % of people who shoot a better score is much smaller than most think) is bad???
meanwhile shooting 10 matches and taking best 3 = gud???
lolol hypocrites.
Only change I would make is no matter how many matches you shoot, your 3 scores will be your best score, your worst score, and the avg of all your scores.
(that way the PrS peeps still have reason to shoot more matches to bring the avg up)
Boom progress over night.
GL
DT
I just don’t see how the vote was even close. One of the draws to this sport and what’s making it grow so much and the popularity is the semi professionalism.
Okay, I'm WAAAY late to the party here (have been out of town) but wanted to add a note as a "food for thought" since I'm someone who has looked at the scores and statistics of PRS a fair bit.
At matches where mulligans were in play everyone who wanted to buy one did and the limit was 1 mulligan per shooter. If you bombed a stage you could pull out your mulligan and immediately reshoot the stage, then you keep your 2nd score on the stage no matter whether better or worse. The real question is... What do mulligans do to score distribution?
My thinking is that there is an element of skill to using a mulligan to enhance your score. First, you have to strategically use it at the right time... is this stage likely to be your lowest scoring stage? If you reshoot right now what are the odds that your score will be higher? Did everyone else around you score much better or did everyone just get equally wind-screwed? Second, there is some skill to actually being able to improve the score when you decide to reshoot. Can you diagnose why you missed and how to fix it right now in the 30 seconds? What are you going to do differently the second time around? Finally, there is a huge amount of mental toughness required in that moment. You just shot what might be your worst stage of the match, you're flustered, and now you need to perfectly execute the reshoot. This is why you often see people get worse scores on their mulligan.
While there is not data out there for this, I would strongly suspect that if you listed all the shooters who used their mulligan and ranked them based on the number of points they added to their score, on average the more skilled shooters would also be more skilled in "pulling points" out of their mulligan. And if this is true, then the net result is that mulligans would serve as a further separator of score distribution... resulting in LOWER scores on average for anyone who wasn't the winner of the match.
So my suspicion is that mulligans' effect on scores is probably the exact opposite of what people initially thought when they heard about them and raised them as an issue.
Disclosure: I shoot lots of PRS matches in the West where there are mulligans, I have bought mulligans probably about 1/3 of the time when available, and have used about half the time when I bought them. I voted against mulligans... not because of fairness or score distribution, but because I think they slow down match flow and because I prefer to see consistency rewarded - ie. don't mess up in the first place.
sorry not sorry. laugh out loud
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Regards
DT
You sir just won the internet for the day!
Lol what poor is using a $500 tripod ?and using $500 tripods
I took a class at k and m he seemed like a no bullshit person. Very disappointingI put full blame at Shannon Kay's feet. Given his "background", you'd of thought he would despise this sort of thing.
Tripods are actually one of the most real life practical things about this game.I've seen the mulligan thing at club matches. What a pile of shit. I thought, WTF? Glad im not the only one. Makes me feel better about choosing not to spend $4k on a massively impractical rifle to play a game with people wearing jerseys and using $500 tripods to support the rear of their rifle.
The difference is that is actually in the rules![]()
The difference is that is actually in the rulesSo, will anyone make a push that we need to change the “best three” scores rule now?
Scenario (which is extremely common):
You shoot three matches. You get 100, 100, and an 88.
So next week you spend another $2k in expenses on a match. 85
Next week……90
Next week…….88
Next week…..100
Now you get to forget all those non 100’s and have a perfect 300.
That is the equivalent to a mulligan.
All of a sudden it’s not “fair” to everyone who doesn’t have the time or funds to continue shooting until you have a good day,
If the reason for demanding change to individual match mulligans was to keep it even across the board……everyone should now be demanding a change to this scoring system.
No they weren't!!! Show me where they wereSo were mulligans until a few days ago. Just like the rules don’t tell you what size to make targets. So you do whatever you want with target size.
You don’t get to tell the PRS organization what their rules govern.
They tell you.
No they weren't!!! Show me where they were![]()
That was until they actually read their rulesAgain, just like target size.
The rules don’t govern target sizes. So you can do what you want.
PRS clarified that “reshoots” absolutely did not cover mulligans.
Therefore they are allowed.
Valid point!!!!Under the current rules, in theory, two match directors (one with two matches) could make their matches with 4ft x 4ft targets on every stage.
And you could have 100+ shooters with perfect 300 point scores going into the finale.
And it’s completely within the rules. Because it doesn’t dictate what should be done on targets.
Obviously this is an extreme example. But that’s how mulligans worked until a few days ago.
That was until they actually read their rules
I truly do hope that you can get over your loss of mulligans(I could care less about mulligans as long as it was clarified in the rules)
Under the current rules, in theory, two match directors (one with two matches) could make their matches with 4ft x 4ft targets on every stage.
And you could have 100+ shooters with perfect 300 point scores going into the finale.
And it’s completely within the rules. Because it doesn’t dictate what should be done on targets.
Obviously this is an extreme example. But that’s how mulligans worked until a few days ago.
At least the other sports don't allow you to pay 100 dollars to take a car to the finish line and then lace on your running shoes and sprint across the finish line pumping your arms. We should call them Rosie Ruiz's and not Mulligans.
Venue gaming is as old as competitions are. And is present in all other sports. Until the big dogs who have done the work show up. If someone wants to spend all their time venue shopping, then the MDs and local clubs are glad to take their money. It wont make much of a difference in the end, but maybe, maybe the venue shopper will get better. I suspect they will. Hats off to anyone with that level of dedication. They are probably better off dry firing and spending time analyzing their performance at different ranges. But hey, its their money. I suspect few people can do this long term.
Eventually there will be relative rankings published. Anyone with a stats background and access to the raw stage scores could do that today. Certainly if you are a studious shooter you are doing that for yourself today. Target size + wind conditions + stage type + other scores + your score = performance ranking. Are you better that you were and are you improving relative to others?
There are very well stablished tables on running stats that anyone can look at and I suspect that shooting will eventually be no different.
While I know there is controversy around things, I do have to commend PRS for soliciting input from shooters and the MDs. I think it gives hope for other changes and improvements.
I know it dammit, i messed that all up.Lol what poor is using a $500 tripod ?
I know it dammit, i messed that all up.
It's nearly the same business model as Costco.
It's nearly the same business model as Costco.
Sell product at razor-thin margins. Massive profits in memberships.
Give them a little card and charge them $100 bucks to get in the door.
Fucking brilliant.
And what tangible and notable value has a PRS membership given you?That $100 membership has saved me hundreds-to-thousands of $ in product discount alone, so easily worth it.
And what tangible and notable value has a PRS membership given you?
Perhaps that's another thread where we ask rhetorical questions.![]()
Be specific here because you're sounding like you're conflating different things...That $100 membership has saved me hundreds-to-thousands of $ in product discount alone, so easily worth it.
Hes talking about discounts with companies by having a membership number. Euro optic has very good discount rates for prs membersBe specific here because you're sounding like you're conflating different things...
If you're talking about discount certs and free merch that's stuff that the companies donated at the request of the match director.
The PRS didn't do shit to make that happen. If you received a code or discount cert WITH your membership then that's something the organization itself arranged.
The organization likes to take credit for a lot of the work being done by the match directors, volunteers, and ROs, when in reality they're just collecting fees and tracking scores.
The NRL does a better job with this by supplying ipads and battery packs for scoring, the mobile repair station, etc. but they aren't perfect either.
The people doing the work are the match directors and their families and friends. It ain't the fuckin PRS.
Be specific here because you're sounding like you're conflating different things...
If you're talking about discount certs and free merch that's stuff that the companies donated at the request of the match director.
The PRS didn't do shit to make that happen. If you received a code or discount cert WITH your membership then that's something the organization itself arranged.
The organization likes to take credit for a lot of the work being done by the match directors, volunteers, and ROs, when in reality they're just collecting fees and tracking scores.
The NRL does a better job with this by supplying ipads and battery packs for scoring, the mobile repair station, etc. but they aren't perfect either.
The people doing the work are the match directors and their families and friends. It ain't the fuckin PRS.
Calm down, they have lots of discount codes available directly on their website.
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I get the same value of discount codes and money saved from my local club membership organized by my local MD's at the clubs I belong to and shoot at and respective Range Owners.The tangible value that the membership has given me is extra dollars in my wallet.
Cool man, enjoy yourself. Just don’t sign up for PRS matches then, I don’t care.I get the same value of discount codes and money saved from my local club membership organized by my local MD's at the clubs I belong to and shoot at and respective Range Owners.
There's nothing that I know of that the PRS offers its paying members other than score tracking at a regional and national level. Which, for me, (admittedly, I may be the outlier in this crowd) I couldn't give two shits what my score is against a guy in Florida, Iowa or Washington. Which, I already get point / score tracking at the club level, so I'm perplexed as to what the PRS membership offers that is unique to members. (other than pro/cup matches and events)
PRS allows a much bigger funnel obviously...I get the same value of discount codes and money saved from my local club membership organized by my local MD's at the clubs I belong to ...
Don't get me wrong. I'm not trolling, I'm legit asking and trying to constructively have the conversation of what value being a PRS member has? I can and do shoot PRS matches, as well as my local club matches. I paid it last year, shot 12ish matches IIRC, whatever. It's due this year. I'm asking myself, why renew? What did I get out of it last year? A webpage that shows my score? A coupon for a t-shirt? Some discount codes that I already have?Cool man, enjoy yourself. Just don’t sign up for PRS matches then, I don’t care.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not trolling, I'm legit asking and trying to constructively have the conversation of what value being a PRS member has? I can and do shoot PRS matches, as well as my local club matches. I paid it last year, shot 12ish matches IIRC, whatever. It's due this year. I'm asking myself, why renew? What did I get out of it last year? A webpage that shows my score? A coupon for a t-shirt? Some discount codes that I already have?
If this is the wrong thread, then no problem. Life moves on. And if it's just a dead point, cool. I get that too. I thought it was a worthwhile sub-topic in the mess of classifications, rules, mulligans, etc. but whatever. No drama.
Cool man, enjoy yourself. Just don’t sign up for PRS matches then, I don’t care.
Exactly,He can sign up and shoot whatever match he wants. He doesn’t have to be a PRS member.
A point and classification system that actually works. Uniformity and continuity across regions, and classes.What would you like to see PRS offer the shooter?
100% wrong. I think you're missing my point.People seem to think PRS dictate exactly how each match is run and are bitching about the PRS. They are actually bitching about the individual MDs that put the matches on.