I carry extra yellow foamies and hand them out to the shooters next to me, while explaining I will be shooting a loud rifle. I prefer a brake to unbraked because of recoil and even my AR has a brake but with a blast diverter. I wish every state allowed suppressors.
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Muzzle Brakes poor form at the range?
- Thread starter Grim's Reapers
- Start date
I will admit most weren't that accurate. 2 moa was probably the norm. The smith that built mine assembled with a "tight chamber". One problem is when you turn off the gas it'll lock up the spent round tight in the chamber. And when I say "locked up" I mean get out the hammer. Now I didn't ask for a tight chamber and sent it back to the smith. He didn't check it like I stated and shrugged his shoulders when I went to pick up the rifle. That was the last time I used that outfit and they stopped getting anyone I knew to use them either. I have another kit and Imbel action to build. Once I finish that one I'll change out the locking shoulder for a more appropriate one.
Yeah I was pretty amazed at their response. Worst off was a friend that worked there got caught in the middle. Well they lost a lot of business because of that. It was their own doing. I gave them every opportunity to make it good. All they needed to do was swap out a locking shoulder. And they had plenty at the time so it would have cost them nothing. Ended up costing them a lot of business.
I was working in Northern California back in 2002 and drove over to a range in Nevada, palomino Valley IIRC , there was a 50cal match going on at the 1000 yd range and I wanted to check it out , pulled up behind the firing line stepped out of the truck just as the guy in front of me touched one off, DAMM talk about a concussion wave , all the rifles had huge brakes that angled back at probably 60 degrees, thankfully I had put on my ear protection before exiting the truck, I was very impressed with the power of those 50 cal bolt action rifles , even considered getting into the sport myself, thankfully that's a rabbit hole I avoided. The noise didn't really bother me at the time , but now it might be a problem, I use electronic muffs now not sure how they would compare to the old standard muffs of yesterday.
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If entry explosions cause tbi, this has to cause it as well. Shooting these all day have to leave you essentially punch drunk.
Is that a brothel? If so no but I did go to one south of Reno don't remember the name , it wasn't near as fun as the ones in Mexico in the 70's,or the chicken ranch in la grange.but then when your 17 everything is more fun.
So, I just got home from the range after conducting the ATS vs APA Little Bastard comparison.
Oddly, I found a couple of volunteers I've never met to take part in the comparison. I told them what I was doing and they eagerly volunteered to get blasted by both muzzle brakes (I of course took a turn getting rocked as well).
I told the RSO what I was doing, and when he saw the ATS he immediately said exactly what I thought people were going to think. "I can already tell you which one is going to be louder" while pointing at it. He commented that it was much bigger and was going to be louder. Anyway, here's the results....
I sat on the shooting bench next to my rig, and the safety officer fired two shots though the Little Bastard. It was loud of course and it blasted me pretty good alright. Then the ATS. He put two through that one. I got blasted pretty good again, but in my estimation not quite as much. The RSO said that he felt that the ATS had less recoil than the Little Bastard and he was unaffected by either brake as the shooter, by concussion or noise.
I manned my rifle and the guy next to me on my left sat there in his shooting position with his eyes closed, as did the person on my right (an elderly gentleman shooting a 7mm Mauser). Neither knew which brake was on the rifle. Two shots with the ATS, then two with the Little Bastard.
Both participants agreed that the first shots (ATS) were slightly less loud than the second shots (Little Bastard), but both felt concussively nearly the same, with the older gentleman saying it felt slightly less concussive.
I noticed right away that my rifle and bipod jumped fairly significantly with the ATS and did not with the Little Bastard. I completely lost my target through the scope with the ATS but did not with the Little Bastard. The ATS had more recoil as well, but definitely took some bite out of my 7RM. I know my rifle and I think the RSO was biased by his first impression after seeing it and was unfamiliar with my setup.
So, my conclusion is as follows:
The ATS seems to be slightly less noisy to other shooters than the APA Little Bastard.
The perceived concussive force to other shooters for the ATS appears to be only marginally less.
There is no difference in either area for the shooter.
The ATS definitely has a lot more barrel jump with only slightly more recoil than the Little Bastard.
My opinion is that, to me, the slight gain in "friendliness" to others is not significant enough with the ATS to overcome the pretty drastic difference in barrel jump. They're a good brake, just not as effective for the operator as the APA.
Oddly, I found a couple of volunteers I've never met to take part in the comparison. I told them what I was doing and they eagerly volunteered to get blasted by both muzzle brakes (I of course took a turn getting rocked as well).
I told the RSO what I was doing, and when he saw the ATS he immediately said exactly what I thought people were going to think. "I can already tell you which one is going to be louder" while pointing at it. He commented that it was much bigger and was going to be louder. Anyway, here's the results....
I sat on the shooting bench next to my rig, and the safety officer fired two shots though the Little Bastard. It was loud of course and it blasted me pretty good alright. Then the ATS. He put two through that one. I got blasted pretty good again, but in my estimation not quite as much. The RSO said that he felt that the ATS had less recoil than the Little Bastard and he was unaffected by either brake as the shooter, by concussion or noise.
I manned my rifle and the guy next to me on my left sat there in his shooting position with his eyes closed, as did the person on my right (an elderly gentleman shooting a 7mm Mauser). Neither knew which brake was on the rifle. Two shots with the ATS, then two with the Little Bastard.
Both participants agreed that the first shots (ATS) were slightly less loud than the second shots (Little Bastard), but both felt concussively nearly the same, with the older gentleman saying it felt slightly less concussive.
I noticed right away that my rifle and bipod jumped fairly significantly with the ATS and did not with the Little Bastard. I completely lost my target through the scope with the ATS but did not with the Little Bastard. The ATS had more recoil as well, but definitely took some bite out of my 7RM. I know my rifle and I think the RSO was biased by his first impression after seeing it and was unfamiliar with my setup.
So, my conclusion is as follows:
The ATS seems to be slightly less noisy to other shooters than the APA Little Bastard.
The perceived concussive force to other shooters for the ATS appears to be only marginally less.
There is no difference in either area for the shooter.
The ATS definitely has a lot more barrel jump with only slightly more recoil than the Little Bastard.
My opinion is that, to me, the slight gain in "friendliness" to others is not significant enough with the ATS to overcome the pretty drastic difference in barrel jump. They're a good brake, just not as effective for the operator as the APA.
The ATS. Notice it makes my heavy varmint contour barrel look like a pencil. LOL
Many thanks for your insight @Grim's Reapers
You gave it a good wringing out and have multiple perspectives included in your review.
Forgive my ignorance....does the Little Bastard have top ports in addition to the lateral vents ?
Reason I'm asking is curiosity if the top ports account for some of the reduced jump.
That is a really nice looking range from what can be seen in the pics.
You gave it an honest attempt to see if you could reduce your impact to others. That's commendable.
You gave it a good wringing out and have multiple perspectives included in your review.
Forgive my ignorance....does the Little Bastard have top ports in addition to the lateral vents ?
Reason I'm asking is curiosity if the top ports account for some of the reduced jump.
That is a really nice looking range from what can be seen in the pics.
You gave it an honest attempt to see if you could reduce your impact to others. That's commendable.
Thanks, I really did hope it would be amazing and gave it my best shot. Alas, it was not meant to be. LOL
The Little Bastard that's on my rifle is a Gen2 which does not have top ports. Then Gen3 Little Bastard does have adjustable top ports but I've seen a lot of people fiddling around with them and they are pretty ineffective. There are some other brakes out there that have top ports on the roughly 11 and 1 o'clock position of the brake that you can "tune" by drilling them out to larger diameters.
People claim you can "tune out" the direction your barrel tends to rise in by fiddling about with these ports. I've talked to some guys who have them and most have said they don't work. I could be wrong, but I think it's a bunch of hocus pocus.
Our Game Wardens actually built that range. It's very well done and they put on classes for the kids for youth hunting and to encourage people to get involved in the shooting sports. Obviously I live in a State that is still Red. LOL
I’ve never seen anyone give a shit about hitting me with muzzle blast(not that I care much) so I’ll just do my thing as well, its a firing range not a library.
edit: okay it can be annoying in one case-
empty range and I’m shooting .22 subs or suppressed and you sit right next to me, even if I’m shooting with a brake go the fuck away down the line it’s the same rule as urinals.
edit: okay it can be annoying in one case-
empty range and I’m shooting .22 subs or suppressed and you sit right next to me, even if I’m shooting with a brake go the fuck away down the line it’s the same rule as urinals.
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No, they pee in the other guys butt while he’s peeing in the urinal.
Had a good experience today at the range. I was shooting my 17HMR and a young man set up one bay over with his braked Remington 300 Win Mag that he was trying to get set up for an elk hunt later this year. After setting up and before he ever fired a round, he was thoughtful enough to come over and let me know what he was shooting. He was very much aware of the impact that the brake would have. We had a nice conversation and worked out a routine in which we took turns shooting. There was no way I could stay on the line with that gun and try to shoot. It was a cannon. Anyway, everything worked out fine for both of us and we both had a great day. Being thoughtful of others can lead to good things!
And it took that young fella all of 30 seconds to just be polite. Amazing how far that can go. Glad there's still young men out there who were raised properly. There is hope yet.
Really good video on what those top ports actually do, mostly relevant to bipod shooting.
The more aggressive top ports can cause significant bipod bounce and negatively affect accuracy.
I might try the 4AW brake, I like the theory behind it, but I should probably get a bigger boomstick to justify it.
That was my thinking when I saw brakes with top ports. It's shoving down on your bipod instantaneously. At first, intuition would say a downward force would keep your bipod planted on terra firma. But if you think about it. it's the same as the smacking the very end of your barrel with a hammer. Take your hand and push down on the end of your barrel and the butt stock will pivot arond the bipod and lift off the ground. Now imagine this happening instantaneously and with great force. Not helping.
This is why I stated in my post above that I think those top ports are hocus pocus.
Does Newton`s Third Law apply? " For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."
Y'all sound like a bunch of range Karen's.
It is a rifle range for pete's sake.
Lord I want off this planet.
- Nov 3, 2010
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I need to sell off some rifles that never get used for better optics and a suppressor.
If this thread convinced you of that, then we can claim at least some good came out of it.
- Nov 3, 2010
- 9,697
- 20,385
Like a cat when you bring home treats and it ignores them and plays with the bag
It's been something I've considered for years. I sold off some rifles to help with bills. I'll sell some more to take care of other bills. And then get serious and sell off the rest and keep only what I'll use, plus a couple of ones with sentimental value. then one good LPVO, a LR scope, and a suppressor.
Yay!!! There it is!! That patented Sniper`s Hide response! LOL! And if a demonstration of having a consideration for others, whether at a rifle range or any other place, probably, makes you " want off this planet", then I feel sorry for others who might have the misfortune to encounter you, whether at the range, on the road, at the grocery store, wherever.
Na hombre.. I am not your problem. Here is your problemo.
“Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place, that they may be placed alone in the midst of the earth!”
I can see both sides of the argument. It gets tiresome dealing with people. Especially those that don't take into consideration that certain areas might have characteristics that they need to deal with. And of course in certain circumstances we could have more grace to deal with people and situations.
But Sarge I can't hit the target cause you're distracting me.
2nd amendment my ass. Buncha fudd whackers.
2nd amendment my ass. Buncha fudd whackers.
There’s being part of an audience and talking loudly during a live performance.
Then there’s shooting loud guns at a gun range.
Both can be offensive to other attendees. In the first instance, the talker is in the wrong. In the second instance, the offended bystanders are groundless in their complaint.
If a shooter desires to take steps to make his firearm less obnoxious to be around, that is his prerogative. But, he should not feel compelled to do so.
Then there’s shooting loud guns at a gun range.
Both can be offensive to other attendees. In the first instance, the talker is in the wrong. In the second instance, the offended bystanders are groundless in their complaint.
If a shooter desires to take steps to make his firearm less obnoxious to be around, that is his prerogative. But, he should not feel compelled to do so.
I can see that. l suppose the problem I have is conflating, as I think some are apt to do, simple courtesy and a consideration of others and appreciation of these qualities with some character flaw or weakness, in this case, being a " range Karen ". I did not know or appreciate that said courtesy and consideration were setting dependent, at least apparently for some. Of course shooting ranges are loud places, and apparently there are those that believe that at least considering those around you and how what you do may impact them and their enjoyment has absolutely no place in the testosterone laden, uber macho realm of the recreational shooting range. If it makes me a " range Karen " to appreciate another shooter caring enough about the quality of my time at the range to work out a shooting routine that frankly benefited me more than him, then I`ll gladly accept that label! Too old to change now!
But Sarge I can't hit the target cause you're distracting me.
2nd amendment my ass. Buncha fudd whackers.
Hard to imagine anyone going to any range, private or public, that allows brakes not having double ear protection. I shoot at a private club range, no prohibitions against brakes, so they have as much right to be there as non-brake shooters. I have double protection, but the biggest problem for me personally is concussion. I don`t know any solution to that other than a physical barrier of some sort or trying to move away from it (not always possible ).
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