my body

[OldSalty2]

I can't help but to think these latest vaxx mandates by joe's handlers are a setup to fight the abortion laws that are popping up in red states.

"My body my choice" and the freedom to make choices regarding your own health.

IMO, there is nothing the left covets more than abortion.

It is a cornerstone to their ideology and a huge money laundering program for the dems.

So while it doesnt really matter what my specific stance is regarding abortion...

do they have a point?

 

[Maggot]

Absolute control.

Its that simple.

Fuck'em.

 

[BullGear]

This has nothing to do with Abortion, it has everything to do with a Socialist agenda. Soros is getting what he wants. He thought he'd have to do it with gun control. He now realizes it can be done with life control.

Americans, even the Right, are sheep. We talk a good game, but how many times do we move the goal post before we've had enough?

 

[OldSalty2]

Absolute control.

Its that simple.

Fuck'demo.

it could be argued that the abortion laws exert even more control on the individual.

 

[candyx]

Abortion is funding the democratic party thats why they fight tooth and nail to preserve the right to kill babies for those campaign dollars. America is a very nasty place when you look past the flag waving and apple pie. Every society has eventually collapse in history its a normal cycle, I believe we have peaked and are on the downside of ours.

 

[theLBC]

and abortions are much easier to avoid than a respiratory virus.

 

[91Eunozs]

it could be argued that the abortion laws exert even more control on the individual.

Which individual is the question of course. Good point.

Re: This question, if they can force you, or simply get you to comply with sticking a needle in your arm for a vaccine that even proponents admit does nothing to stop the spread of this virus, there is literally nothing they can’t do. I firmly believe in the efficacy of the treatment to help most people experience diminished symptoms, but this vaccine is not a panacea.

Like the masks, the mouthpieces take some marginal effect and amplify it to the point where the average schmuck truly believes that they’ll die if they don’t fall in line. All in the name of safety.

It has absolutely nothing…nothing…to do with health and safety of course.

It’s precedent, and normalization of compliance…nothing more.

 

[OldSalty2]

and abortions are much easier to avoid than a respiratory virus.

Right, but does nothing to address the question.

While I agree, the true underpinnings are "why do we even need to debate this?", but here we are.

 

[Maggot]

Which individual is the question of course. Good point.

Re: This question, if they can force you, or simply get you to comply with sticking a needle in your arm for a vaccine that even proponents admit does nothing to stop the spread of this virus, there is literally nothing they can’t do. I firmly believe in the efficacy of the treatment to help most people experience diminished symptoms, but this vaccine is not a panacea.

Like the masks, the mouthpieces take some marginal effect and amplify it to the point where the average schmuck truly believes that they’ll die if they don’t fall in line. All in the name of safety.

It has absolutely nothing…nothing…to do with health and safety of course.

It’s precedent, and normalization of compliance…nothing more.

Some are so buffaloed that I see them driving ALONE in their cars all masked up. Or walking on a rural road ALONE, a mile from the nearest person, and all masked up. Thats what I dont understand. Total indoctrination.

Personally, I like the idea of food service workers being required to wear a mask, covid or no Covid. I have NEVER liked other people breathing on my food. I touched as little as possible in public places even before this mess. You never know what aids or other infected perv might have wiped on something.

Paranoid? Perhaps but that doesnt mean they arent after me.

 

[OldSalty2]

Which individual is the question of course. Good point.

Re: This question, if they can force you, or simply get you to comply with sticking a needle in your arm for a vaccine that even proponents admit does nothing to stop the spread of this virus, there is literally nothing they can’t do. I firmly believe in the efficacy of the treatment to help most people experience diminished symptoms, but this vaccine is not a panacea.

Like the masks, the mouthpieces take some marginal effect and amplify it to the point where the average schmuck truly believes that they’ll die if they don’t fall in line. All in the name of safety.

It has absolutely nothing…nothing…to do with health and safety of course.

It’s precedent, and normalization of compliance…nothing more.

Compliance is a factor, but perhaps not in the traditional sense. Im not sure leftists are huge fans of "compliance", perhaps on things you and I disagree with, of course. Sanctuary cities, drug legalization ect, basically when it suits the ideals.

 

[OldSalty2]

Which individual is the question of course. Good point.

Re: This question, if they can force you, or simply get you to comply with sticking a needle in your arm for a vaccine that even proponents admit does nothing to stop the spread of this virus, there is literally nothing they can’t do. I firmly believe in the efficacy of the treatment to help most people experience diminished symptoms, but this vaccine is not a panacea.

Like the masks, the mouthpieces take some marginal effect and amplify it to the point where the average schmuck truly believes that they’ll die if they don’t fall in line. All in the name of safety.

It has absolutely nothing…nothing…to do with health and safety of course.

It’s precedent, and normalization of compliance…nothing more.

As to which individual, that's of course part of a fundamental question that is physical, spiritual and faith-based in nature.

And to adhere to one's desired outcome, the solution is to force a solution onto who will determine the outcome?

 

[theLBC]

Right, but does nothing to address the question.

While I agree, the true underpinnings are "why do we even need to debate this?", but here we are.

i am not sure what the question is. are you asking if "my body, my choice" is a valid argument for abortion?
imho, you make the choice when you have unprotected sex.
unilaterally killing the product of your own voluntary actions is not "my body, my choice", imho.

abortion, like entitlements, is just another crutch to avoid personal responsibility...
and big government likes it like that because they want to make your choices for you.

 

[BullGear]

As to which individual, that's of course part of a fundamental question that is physical, spiritual and faith-based in nature.

And to adhere to one's desired outcome, the solution is to force a solution onto who will determine the outcome?

Pregnancy is like being a beer truck driver. Once the beer is made it's put into your truck. Your responsibility is to deliver the beer. You don't have the luxury of pulling over on the side of the road and throwing the beer away.

Plain and simple.

 

[Rthur]

it could be argued that the abortion laws exert even more control on the individual.

That took some serious mental gymnastics to arrive at that conclusion.
Who forced them to have sex?
Who is responsible for their actions acting as an adult?
Who doesn't know what the leading/only cause of pregnancy is?
How much should I/others pay/be taxed for their actions?
Since Roe v Wade has the access to abortion reduced the use of abortion?
Were unwed/unwanted children always this big of a problem?

R

 

[OldSalty2]

i am not sure what the question is. are you asking if "my body, my choice" is a valid argument for abortion?
imho, you make the choice when you have unprotected sex.
unilaterally killing the product of your own voluntary actions is not "my body, my choice", imho.

abortion, like entitlements, is just another crutch to avoid personal responsibility...
and big government likes it like that because they want to make your choices for you.

All the factors you mention are valid. We probably have very similar beliefs on this topic in general.

And yes, people do have choices...which of course is exactly what's being said.

But again, here we are. Valid arguments to support enforcement, just depends on the direction it comes from.

maybe it's like free speech, do certain things just need to be absolute, because how does one put their finger on the balance?

 

[P-Squared]

I can't help but to think these latest vaxx mandates by joe's handlers are a setup to fight the abortion laws that are popping up in red states.

"My body my choice" and the freedom to make choices regarding your own health.

IMO, there is nothing the left covets more than abortion.

It is a cornerstone to their ideology and a huge money laundering program for the dems.

So while it doesnt really matter what my specific stance is regarding abortion...

do they have a point?

I think it is your choice. It's a decision you have to square away with God in the end. It's MY choice to not fund your choices. I don't think the .gov has any right to fund abortions.

We worry like hell we MIGHT offend someone in this damn cancel culture, how about you(the collective you) worry about offending me by funding and supporting the performance of abortions.

Your body, your choice. Leave me out of it.

 

[candyx]

and abortions are much easier to avoid than a respiratory virus.

Rape is just democratic operatives helping out the party.

 

[BullGear]

Rape is just democratic operatives helping out the party.

Is rape something that just started happening last week? There have been children born by rape victim for hundreds, if not thousands of years. Why is the Abortionist's agenda the only option today?

 

[candyx]

Is rape something that just started happening last week? There have been children born by rape victim for hundreds, if not thousands of years. Why is the Abortionist's agenda the only option today?

Since 1828 , the birth of the democratic party who promotes death for the unborn for $$$$$. If the democrats want to fund billions for the illegal aliens then why don't they do it for the unborn instead of abortion ?

 

[lariat]

i am not sure what the question is. are you asking if "my body, my choice" is a valid argument for abortion?
imho, you make the choice when you have unprotected sex.
unilaterally killing the product of your own voluntary actions is not "my body, my choice", imho.

abortion, like entitlements, is just another crutch to avoid personal responsibility...
and big government likes it like that because they want to make your choices for you.

This right here. Well said.

If you want to get right down to it, the real issue isn't the abortions. It is the looseness of women and men. If they are not placing themselves in a situation that creates the "need" for an abortion then they wouldn't need an abortion clinic.

Stop fucking everything that moves and you stop needing abortion clinics. Rape is such a small percentage it doesn't even factor into the argument.

 

[Maggot]

i am not sure what the question is. are you asking if "my body, my choice" is a valid argument for abortion?
imho, you make the choice when you have unprotected sex.
unilaterally killing the product of your own voluntary actions is not "my body, my choice", imho.

abortion, like entitlements, is just another crutch to avoid personal responsibility...
and big government likes it like that because they want to make your choices for you.

What you say is true, but leaves open the question of 'failed birth control', rape, etc.


I dont give a flying tinker's damn what a woman does with HER body, but what you do with another's becomes a different agenda. You can swing your fist as much as you want but when it contacts me...

The bottom line for me is this...Who is giving the innocent, unborn, HUMAN BEING in your womb, a choice. Just like an acorn, in every case (if left unmolested and given the proper nutrients...soil, sun, water, air) will become an oak tree, in every case, the sperm penetrated egg will develop according to its natural telos, gamete, fetus, newborn, child, etc.

The murder of an innocent human is murder and should be treated as such.

 

[OldSalty2]

The bottom line for me is this...Who is giving the innocent, unborn, HUMAN BEING in your womb, a choice.

The only person who can determine the outcome. Whether I agree or not. That's the true bottom line.

 

[candyx]

If they would make anal sex illegal then we wouldn't have so many liberal democrats walking around.

 

[theLBC]

What you say is true, but leaves open the question of 'failed birth control', rape, etc.


I dont give a flying tinker's damn what a woman does with HER body, but what you do with another's becomes a different agenda. You can swing your fist as much as you want but when it contacts me...

The bottom line for me is this...Who is giving the innocent, unborn, HUMAN BEING in your womb, a choice. Just like an acorn, in every case (if left unmolested and given the proper nutrients...soil, sun, water, air) will become an oak tree, in every case, the sperm penetrated egg will develop according to its natural telos, gamete, fetus, newborn, child, etc.

The murder of an innocent human is murder and should be treated as such.

well, because i am not religious, my opinion is not that strict.
i would allow abortions in cases of rape or incest, and i have no great issue with the morning after pill, but i find the killing of babies as a form of post coitus birth control morally repugnant, particularly in the 3rd trimester.

 

[supercorndogs]

Some are so buffaloed that I see them driving ALONE in their cars all masked up. Or walking on a rural road ALONE, a mile from the nearest person, and all masked up. Thats what I dont understand. Total indoctrination.

Personally, I like the idea of food service workers being required to wear a mask, covid or no Covid. I have NEVER liked other people breathing on my food. I touched as little as possible in public places even before this mess. You never know what aids or other infected perv might have wiped on something.

Paranoid? Perhaps but that doesnt mean they arent after me.

Thats is pretty fucked up. Those masks pose much more risk to their health, then them "breathing on your food" poses to you. You probably get much less saliva on your food without workers pulling up their mask every ten seconds.

 

[Maggot]

well, because i am not religious, my opinion is not that strict.
i would allow abortions in cases of rape or incest, and i have no great issue with the morning after pill, but i find the killing of babies as a form of post coitus birth control morally repugnant, particularly in the 3rd trimester.

My argument has no 'religion' in it. Religion is dangerous and best avoided. It is purely and simply logic and reason, guided by compassion, which is also logical and reasonable when you understand that "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction." (I. Newton). Given that, why would anyone intentionally harm anyone else?

In the example below we must allow and agree that in every case = means exactly the same in every way, as in all cases ice=water, and allowing for given and accepted parameters. We're not talking ammonia on Saturn = ice.

If A= B
and
B=C
then
A=C

 

[theLBC]

My argument has no 'religion' in it. Religion is dangerous and best avoided. It is purely and simply logic and reason, guided by compassion, which is also logical and reasonable when you understand that "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction." (I. Newton). Given that, why would anyone intentionally harm anyone else?

In the example below we must allow and agree that in every case = means exactly the same in every way, as in all cases ice=water, and allowing for given and accepted parameters. We're not talking ammonia on Saturn = ice.

If A= B
and
B=C
then
A=C

if A=B, and B=C, there is no B or C, and there is only A.
in this case, i don't agree that they are all the same.

in africa there are nomadic tribes that commit infanticide for the survival of the tribe when food is scarce.
i doubt that i can be convinced that this is morally wrong or evil in any way.

 

[Maggot]

if A=B, and B=C, there is no B or C, and there is only A.
in this case, i don't agree that they are all the same.

in africa there are nomadic tribes that commit infanticide for the survival of the tribe when food is scarce.
i doubt that i can be convinced that this is morally wrong or evil in any way.

To your first point, the idea is that ice is always water just in a different expression. Its jsut a way of using logical argument.

As to the second, of course it is. No one is forcing them to mate and have another untenable child. Its a choice they make that leads to the need for another choice. If you know food is scarce, tie a knot in it until it rains...of what ever it takes to improve the food supply.

 

[theLBC]

To your first point, the idea is that ice is always water just in a different expression. Its jsut a way of using logical argument.

As to the second, of course it is. No one is forcing them to mate and have another untenable child. Its a choice they make that leads to the need for another choice. If you know food is scarce, tie a knot in it until it rains...of what ever it takes to improve the food supply.

food pressures can change drastically in 9 months when you can't just go to a grocery store, particularly if they lose a hunter.

 

[Maggot]

food pressures can change drastically in 9 months when you can't just go to a grocery store, particularly if they lose a hunter.

NO argument there, and Im not being non compassionate, but given that, they should plan accordingly.

No argument there, and Im not being non compassionate, but given that, they should plan accordingly.

 

[theLBC]

NO argument there, and Im not being non compassionate, but given that, they should plan accordingly.



View attachment 7701264

No argument there, and Im not being non compassionate, but given that, they should plan accordingly.

considering they rarely have to do it, i would have to say their sexual restraint far exceeds my own.

 

[Jack's Dad]

I also think there's a big difference in the government telling you that you can't do something vs being compelled to do a thing.

 

[lariat]

I also think there's a big difference in the government telling you that you can't do something vs being compelled to do a thing.

So you're saying that those who get an abortion in America are not compelled to do it? How so? Who is forcing them?

 

[Jack's Dad]

I'm speaking more vis-a-vis the legitimacy of abortion laws vs mandated vaccinations. While I'm ok with some abortions, there is barely an argument for allowing them that holds water. Rape, incest, life of mother not withstanding. The whole "my body my choice" logic is a poor argument when it comes to abortion laws. The government has passed and enforces dozens of rules dictating what we can't do to ourselves: seat belt laws, medical procedures, ingestion of illicit drugs. Generally these laws are acceptable to almost everyone. The government telling me that I am required to take one in the arm or eat or drink this or that is completely unacceptable. I got the vaccine on my own volition.

 

[Aries256]

I love how when it comes to murdering babies, it’s a right and my body my choice. However when it comes to being injected with a dangerous substance it’s my body their choice. Hypocritical assholes

 

[Scott037]

Free will, abortion is the mother's free will. In other words it's in her body until it's born it's a tumor that it there to increase happiness or decrease it. We have the right to pursue happiness.

 

[supercorndogs]

The Texas abortion law is a heart beat law. These laws are easily understandable, and very popular. Once the human being has its own heart beat, it is no longer your body to make a choice with. Your body choice was to get banged without protection, and not worry about the consequences until later. Now you have another human being inside of you, their body is not yours and killing them is murder.

 

[hankpac]

1. Roe Vs Wade was never about "my body, My choice". It was about a woman who hated her husband so much, she would kill her fetus before she would let him have the baby ("you don't want the baby, I'll take it. It is my child, too").
2. It was never about "Health of Mother, Incest, Rape, Severe Deformity or Retardation". Access to abortion for those reasons was already a given.
3. Roe V Wade has been used for decades (1973) to kill innocent children. If a woman was deciding about HER body, she would be the one who dies.
4. Roe v Wade has been used as a single pivot point for unmitigated Genocide. By 2014, Blacks were starting to wake up to that.
Among whites the steady-state ratio has been carried by women in their 20's, many of whom have more than one abortion.

 

[supercorndogs]

I know two people who were told they should have abortins because testing showed their baby was going to have major developmental disabilities. Both of them kept the baby, neither child has developmental disabilities.

 

[OldSalty2]

The Texas abortion law is a heart beat law. These laws are easily understandable, and very popular. Once the human being has its own heart beat, it is no longer your body to make a choice with. Your body choice was to get banged without protection, and not worry about the consequences until later. Now you have another human being inside of you, their body is not yours and killing them is murder.

I suppose you force the mother to take care of the unborn baby? Yep, that's it!

The only way to "win", is to shift the culture.

 

[supercorndogs]

"Take care of the unborn baby." What is she doing for it before its born?

If you mean do I think they should be charged for child neglect if they don't take care of a child they keep. Well, actions have consequences now, don't they?

 

[Rthur]

What age/consequence should we start to hold these "adults" to adult standards?
They chose to have sex, strangely the leading cause of pregnancy.
Now pregnant they'd like to kill to get to play more grab ass.
Argue the above isn't the truth, I'll wait/be happy to play.

R

 

[lariat]

If a person who kills an expectant mother can be charged with two counts of murder, then how is a mother not held similarly accountable if she chooses to kill the baby or charged with assault/child endangerment if she smokes, uses drugs or otherwise engages in activities that would kill or injure the baby?

How is it that in one instance the child is highly valued but in another is viewed as worth less than the neighbors dog?

 

[OldSalty2]

"Take care of the unborn baby." What is she doing for it before its born?

If you mean do I think they should be charged for child neglect if they don't take care of a child they keep. Well, actions have consequences now, don't they?

Do you have kids?

How about not drinking, partying, doing drugs, eating healthy, getting prenatal care etc.

Jfc, ok.

Idea. Just get a federally mandated tracing app for pregnant women. Make sure they check-in and are taking care of themselves. If they resist, go arrest them, confine them and force them to "do what's best".

 

[OldSalty2]

If a person who kills an expectant mother can be charged with two counts of murder, then how is a mother not held similarly accountable if she chooses to kill the baby or charged with assault/child endangerment if she smokes, uses drugs or otherwise engages in activities that would kill or injure the baby?

How is it that in one instance the child is highly valued but in another is viewed as worth less than the neighbors dog?

The same way that, generally speaking, the father doesn't have any say in whether the baby is aborted or not...

 

[Deleted member 181377]

Impact of Evolving Privacy Rights

Finally, the general concept of a liberty interest in bodily integrity was first articulated by then-Judge, later Justice, Cardozo in Schloendorff v. Society of New York Hospital: “Every human being of adult years and sound mind has a right to determine what shall be done with his own body” regarding medical needs.55 Recognition by the courts in recent years of a liberty right, or right to privacy, in medical decision making emanating from the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and noted most prominently by the U.S. Supreme Court in its 1973 decision Roe v. Wade56 might be used as the basis of a claimed privacy right by a college student subject to mandatory vaccination. However, the Court in Roe, referencing Jacobson, noted that the medical privacy right is not unlimited and must be balanced against important state interests in regulation (410 U.S. at 154, 193 S.Ct. at 727). More recently, in dicta in the 1990 “right to die” case of Cruzan v. Director, Missouri Dept. of Health,57 the U.S. Supreme Court again acknowledged the viability of the Jacobson holding, leading to the conclusion that, as long as the public health need for widespread vaccination exists, the courts will not recognize a privacy right to refuse state-mandated vaccination and will uphold the police power of states to mandate vaccination.

The same court findings that made for regulatory laws that restrict abortion to one location in a state or restrict admitting privileges for doctors at hospitals to prevent abortions from occurring there also make manditory vaccination legal.

YOU kidnapped yourself Dude.

 

[acudaowner]

it is your body and always was your choice untill you get sick and need others namely taxpayer to pay for your medical bills then shouldn't they also get a say on how there money is spent ? just like the abortion argument you want one get it pay for it out of your pocket can't afford it too freaking bad .like the polio shots you go to public school you get the shots if not stay at home , home school see you still have options .If your job says get it and you don't want to get it don't find another job life is easy like that .

 

[hankpac]

The False argument is that the Baby (a totally different human being) is HER body.

 

[EddieNFL]

Philosophically and ethically correct...

Sounds like something AOC would say.

"I think that there's a lot of people more concerned about being precisely, factually, and semantically correct than about being morally right."

 

[supercorndogs]

Do you have kids?

How about not drinking, partying, doing drugs, eating healthy, getting prenatal care etc.

Jfc, ok.

Idea. Just get a federally mandated tracing app for pregnant women. Make sure they check-in and are taking care of themselves. If they resist, go arrest them, confine them and force them to "do what's best".

None of the has anything to do with what I wrote. Quit with the straw man bullshit.