My first Load Test

[HigherPrimate]

Hey All,

Long time lurker here, first post! Ive been doing .22lr competitions for the last 2 summers and this summer broke into centerfire. I built my first big boy rifle, and started acquiring reloading equipment.

Rifle being tested-
Zermat Arms Origin Action
Criterion 26" Stainless Match Bull (6.5 Creedmoor)
MDT ACC Premiere Chassis
TriggerTech Diamond
Area419 Hellfire Break
Atlas Bipod
Gray Ops Weight Kit

CBTO to Lands-
2.272

CBTO Loaded-
2.252


I worked up my first load test of 6.5 Creedmoor starting at 38.7gr and working up to 41.5gr. Barrel was cleaned the night before, I then shot 10 foulers of factory Hornady Match 140gr ELD-M. Started at 38.7gr, shot those 5 rounds, threw in my barrel cooler and waited a few minutes and repeated this with the next charge weight.

I ran 10 loads, at 5 shots each through a chrono. I also tried my best to take my time and examine group sizes but I quickly ran out of daylight last night and started to rush the last few loads. Below is the load data that I got.

My question is does this data look right? That jump in velocity on loads 7-8 seems excessive compared to the other load weights. But maybe this is normal?

I wasn't getting any pressure signs at 41.5 (Max safe load) and was wondering if I should push it a little bit further to see what is there?

It seems that 41.5 is my node that I will be going with from this data, I may go a few more loads further to see how that goes but judging from what you all see does this seem correct?

Here is a link to my load data spreadsheet-

For my next step, I'm assuming I need to mess with seating depth? These rounds I tested were nearly too long to fit in my magazine, they JUST barely worked. I seated them 0.020 off the lands of my rifle at 2.252. When starting my seating depth ladder I start at 2.252 and work my way down? How big of steps would you all recommend?

I appreciate everyones knowledge and willingness to grow this sport! Ive learned so much from all of you! So shout out to you all!

 

[Bacarrat]

41.5 should be pretty safe. It's a pretty well known load with your components. I think that is the Hornady load they use to publish on their factory ammo. There is a load that is higher too, but not all rifles and brass can take it. I run 42.5gr with those exact components with both Prime and Lapua LRP brass. Would have to work that load up. If you are happy with the 41.5gr load, I would work the seating depths and see how it goes.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

I was running 42.5g of H4350 behind a 142 SMK. This would yield about 2,800fps and no pressure signs.

That said, your data LOOKS correct in that I believe I saw similar results while working up a powder charge.

 

[Doom]

Where are your targets? You put some nice data together but with not knowing rifle barrel length there is nothing to analyze, other than you seem to be able to load pretty consistent ammunition based on most of your loads. If you are looking for flat spots forget it. If they exist it's almost always a result of testing not because of the charge.

Did you shoot these round robin? if not was the barrel clean when you started?

 

[HigherPrimate]

Where are your targets? You put some nice data together but with not knowing rifle barrel length there is nothing to analyze, other than you seem to be able to load pretty consistent ammunition based on most of your loads. If you are looking for flat spots forget it. If they exist it's almost always a result of testing not because of the charge.

Did you shoot these round robin? if not was the barrel clean when you started?

What do you mean by where are my targets? As in photos/data of my groups? I left those out as they arent going to be the most reliable, I can if you want me to though. The last 5 load weights I had to rush to get done and im sure I introduced a lot of shooter error.

I did update the OP to include some more data about the rifle- It is a 26" barrel.

I did not shoot them as a round robin, at least I dont think. I shot all 5 of the same charge weight, let my barrel cool for 5-10min, then repeated with the next charge weight. The barrel was clean when I started and I did shoot 10 rounds of production Hornady Match before starting the load test.

 

[Doom]

I asked about the target because you can run velocity data but it doesn't tell anything about accuracy or precision. Your plot is screwed up as the scale increments (horizontal axis) are not uniform, 39.7,39.9,41.1 etc

 

[spife7980]

What do you mean by where are my targets? As in photos/data of my groups? I left those out as they arent going to be the most reliable,

How it shoots is the only thing that matters, spreadsheets do not.

 

[ballisticdaddy]

What do you mean by where are my targets? As in photos/data of my groups? I left those out as they arent going to be the most reliable, I can if you want me to though. The last 5 load weights I had to rush to get done and im sure I introduced a lot of shooter error.

The ultimate goal is for a tiny five shot group much more so than 5 shots with low ES / SD. I shoot all my test loads over a chronograph for reference but the target is what tells you what you really need to know.

 

[YotaEer]

I'd stick with the 41.5gr and tinker with seating depth. I've had multiple 6.5 barrels that all ended up using 41.5gr after testing.

Also tinkered with seating depth on all of them, but essentially factory ELD length of 2.81ish OAL and 2.185 CBTO with 41.5gr of H4350 has always given me sub half inch groups with a good barrel.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

This is copied from a post I made earlier today for another new reloader. You are correct; your next step is to tinker with seating depth to achieve optimal accuracy. Don't waste your time, components, and barrel life chasing low velocity spread.

I'll tell you something else from experience: If your rounds are very close to not fitting in your magazine, you may encounter a stuck-round misfeed, and Murphy's Law dictates it will happen at the most inopportune time. Just sayin'.
------
The concept of velocity nodes relies solely on tiny sample sizes which yield utterly misleading "data."

This Hornady podcast gets deep into the weeds about sample sizes and what you can learn from appropriately-sized samples. It's pretty interesting. This is episode #50. There's a followup in #52.

 

[Haney]

How does it look on paper ?

 

[Near miss]

Looks great! I remember shooting my first reloads, it was a bit exciting.

What I have learned and gathered from podcasts:
-Read this, it is about reading pressure signs:

Understanding Pressure :: Primal Rights, Inc

Reading pressure is a required skill that all shooters must have. Whether you are shooting factory ammunition or your own handloads, you absolutely must be able to detect and interpret pressure signs on your fired brass.

www.primalrights.com

-loads that produce good sd are usually just an illusion of statistics, at least read that data very critically.
-the best practice is to just do the same load everybody else does (always start low)
-if you want to tinker max (we know you are going to anyway), you have to carefully first test where pressure signs appear. Also first find a reasonable pressured, reliable load that you can test others against.
-Do 1g or half grain tests to see where the nodes are, .3gr are for smaller cartridges
-Keep reloading simple, except your notes. I never noticed any difference between dirty and clean brass, except cleaner hands.

 

[supercorndogs]

What are you considering a good SD vs bad SD?

 

[vikman99]

This is copied from a post I made earlier today for another new reloader. You are correct; your next step is to tinker with seating depth to achieve optimal accuracy. Don't waste your time, components, and barrel life chasing low velocity spread.

I'll tell you something else from experience: If your rounds are very close to not fitting in your magazine, you may encounter a stuck-round misfeed, and Murphy's Law dictates it will happen at the most inopportune time. Just sayin'.
------
The concept of velocity nodes relies solely on tiny sample sizes which yield utterly misleading "data."

This Hornady podcast gets deep into the weeds about sample sizes and what you can learn from appropriately-sized samples. It's pretty interesting. This is episode #50. There's a followup in #52.

This podcast alone is enough to guide my reloading evolution. Thanks for posting

 

[HigherPrimate]

How does it look on paper ?

It shot just under a .5 MOA. Im going to stick with 41.5 it seems to be the most consistent of everything and was putting together pretty tight groups.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Been handloading since early '90's. Tried tweaking the dragon's tail, results exactly as expected.

With enough thoughts, it's becomes apparent that the only differences are A) accelerated bore wear, and b) a set of different drift and drop values. There is NO value to hotloading.

Greg

 

[HigherPrimate]

What are you considering a good SD vs bad SD?

Honestly mostly all of my SD's were pretty good, I would like to see it 10 or below though ideally. But if that doesnt group worth a shit then it doesnt matter.

 

[supercorndogs]

Honestly mostly all of my SD's were pretty good, I would like to see it 10 or below though ideally. But if that doesnt group worth a shit then it doesnt matter.

I was asking the poster above me who said good SD numbers are an illusion. I was just trying to understand what they meant. Sorry not trying to confuse your thread.

 

[Seymour Fish]

This is copied from a post I made earlier today for another new reloader. You are correct; your next step is to tinker with seating depth to achieve optimal accuracy. Don't waste your time, components, and barrel life chasing low velocity spread.

I'll tell you something else from experience: If your rounds are very close to not fitting in your magazine, you may encounter a stuck-round misfeed, and Murphy's Law dictates it will happen at the most inopportune time. Just sayin'.
------
The concept of velocity nodes relies solely on tiny sample sizes which yield utterly misleading "data."

This Hornady podcast gets deep into the weeds about sample sizes and what you can learn from appropriately-sized samples. It's pretty interesting. This is episode #50. There's a followup in #52.

I am so Fucking Sick of these woke-ass no-shooting little pricks concluding that shitty rifles with shitty loads shoot shitty, and trying to lay that lame-ass “statistical” bullshit on folks who actually know what the fuck they are doing. From their demeanor, 100% Jabbed/boosted “follow the science” morons.

 

[HigherPrimate]

I am so Fucking Sick of these woke-ass no-shooting little pricks concluding that shitty rifles with shitty loads shoot shitty, and trying to lay that lame-ass “statistical” bullshit on folks who actually know what the fuck they are doing. From their demeanor, 100% Jabbed/boosted “follow the science” morons.

You lost me here. Im not sure what you are trying to say exactly. I hope I'm not being called woke here. Those are fighting words. Im just trying to learn.

 

[CK1.0]

…wait… is this the Reloading Depot or The Bear Pit?

 

[DownhillFromHere]

You lost me here. Im not sure what you are trying to say exactly. I hope I'm not being called woke here. Those are fighting words. Im just trying to learn.

There's a gold mine of information here on SH. Not everyone agrees all the time. The people who want to learn or help ask questions, akin to "on what do you base this statement?" and work from there.

Others just rant&rave and call names, either because they're trolls trying to stir things up or because they simply disagree and can't support their arguments with facts & data. I don't waste my time with people whose sense of worth requires them to belittle others.

Of course, some people see "signal" where others see "noise." Guess what? You get to choose!

 

[FredHammer]

I am so Fucking Sick of these woke-ass no-shooting little pricks concluding that shitty rifles with shitty loads shoot shitty, and trying to lay that lame-ass “statistical” bullshit on folks who actually know what the fuck they are doing. From their demeanor, 100% Jabbed/boosted “follow the science” morons.

Can you show us on the doll where statistics raped you?

 

[FredHammer]

Others just rant&rave and call names, either because they're trolls trying to stir things up or because they simply disagree and can't support their arguments with facts & data. I don't waste my time with people whose sense of worth requires them to belittle others.

I'm seeing a trend this might be happening more frequently on those nights associated with alcoholic beverage intake. I think it might be possible the alcohol summons from within the very nastiest of character flaws and allows the lubrication of those flaws to be easily put to print.

 

[FredHammer]

@HigherPrimate - awesome first load session, data collecting, and reporting! My first load session was 1992 with a 22-250 and I closed my eyes & turned my head the first 4 rounds! Bwhahahaha

I'm going to guess it was exciting AF, fun as hell, and rewarding, right? If so, fuck the haters and you keep doing you!

Edited to add: You forgot a picture of your gun, Son! (They're like tits. We still like to see them regardless how many we've seen)

 

[HigherPrimate]

@HigherPrimate - awesome first load session, data collecting, and reporting! My first load session was 1992 with a 22-250 and I closed my eyes & turned my head the first 4 rounds! Bwhahahaha

I'm going to guess it was exciting AF, fun as hell, and rewarding, right? If so, fuck the haters and you keep doing you!

Im not worried about it! I had a great time, loaded my first 50 rounds and went out and had fun collecting data and learning. I now have a solid consistent load worked up. Went out this last weekend and confirmed the 41.5gr load and seating depth I have works well for my rifle. Was easily ringing steel at 500yds which is the longest range I have access too.

Ive lurked around here long enough to know how some people are haha. Someone pissed in his Cheerios that morning. Or shit, I forgot I'm supposed to be woke, I shouldn't assume Seymours gender.