Rifle Scopes My inexpensive way of leveling scopes when mounted. (with pics)

[Acurcdotcom]

This is cool, but doesn't say where to get one or the cost.

I will have a web site very soon where you buy one. In the meantime I'll sell you the platform, the 5MOA / .05" can't circular level etc for $95. Just go to eBay and search AcurC Rifle Scope Level. It's very well made and the platform has many other handy uses for your rifle other than determining perfect reticle/ bore alignment. Many thanks for your interest.

 

[redhooker]

I am a bit confused by this seemingly over-complicated process. This is not a bash, but rather a bit of possible ignorance on my part. My brain is thinking these thoughts:

Even if I used the OP method, what purpose does the level serve on top of the turret? If I level the rifle, then adjust to the line do you need a level there?
I just level to the rail with cards, or the receiver if possible or practical. I use a plumb line only when I have no flat surface to use on the gun.
What about the scopes (and I have had a couple) that the turrets are off the reticle by a couple degrees?

Any possible "error" in POI due to the scope being off-center (for those that level to a position of comfort) would be an error in a theoretical calculation that I would be correcting when I acquire my dope, which I guess I have to do because I lack skill. To me an error only occurs when I mis-guess. But any repeatable system can be learned and therefore cannot be considered an error, right? There is no way I could mount an optic and just assume my POI will match my ballistic calculator. I am not that good.

 

[Sandman0077]

I am a bit confused by this seemingly over-complicated process. This is not a bash, but rather a bit of possible ignorance on my part. My brain is thinking these thoughts:

Even if I used the OP method, what purpose does the level serve on top of the turret? If I level the rifle, then adjust to the line do you need a level there?
I just level to the rail with cards, or the receiver if possible or practical. I use a plumb line only when I have no flat surface to use on the gun.
What about the scopes (and I have had a couple) that the turrets are off the reticle by a couple degrees?

Any possible "error" in POI due to the scope being off-center (for those that level to a position of comfort) would be an error in a theoretical calculation that I would be correcting when I acquire my dope, which I guess I have to do because I lack skill. To me an error only occurs when I mis-guess. But any repeatable system can be learned and therefore cannot be considered an error, right? There is no way I could mount an optic and just assume my POI will match my ballistic calculator. I am not that good.

The level on the turret is for redundancy. If the turret is not aligned with the reticle then you could at least know for yourself if it is or not.

And you are right, even if it's not perfect you can still get dope and make the corrections yourself depending on the distance. I think most people would rather have the rifle and scope in 'perfect' working order so you know it's not the rifles fault if you miss.

That's how I see it at least.

 

[elfster1234]

Sandman0077 is correct.... the level on top of the turret really doesn't do anything... I just like to have it there for a reference or difference between the main rail and scope turret... as in the OP, main key (in my opinion) is keeping the level on the main rail level.

I am a bit confused by this seemingly over-complicated process. This is not a bash, but rather a bit of possible ignorance on my part. My brain is thinking these thoughts:

Even if I used the OP method, what purpose does the level serve on top of the turret? If I level the rifle, then adjust to the line do you need a level there?
I just level to the rail with cards, or the receiver if possible or practical. I use a plumb line only when I have no flat surface to use on the gun.
What about the scopes (and I have had a couple) that the turrets are off the reticle by a couple degrees?

Any possible "error" in POI due to the scope being off-center (for those that level to a position of comfort) would be an error in a theoretical calculation that I would be correcting when I acquire my dope, which I guess I have to do because I lack skill. To me an error only occurs when I mis-guess. But any repeatable system can be learned and therefore cannot be considered an error, right? There is no way I could mount an optic and just assume my POI will match my ballistic calculator. I am not that good.

 

[ShadowWolves7]

I did search on Ebay and could not find any information and pictures. What comes in the AcurC Rifle Scope Level and price? Thank you.

 

[yetigoode2]

Thanks

 

[ChrisF]

I should be doing the same as posted , BUT never have , all I have ever done is shoulder the rifle on bipod , and look thru scope and twist until I see the crosshair line up with the bottom center of the action , with bolt out . Opps .

Cheers Chris

 

[BlkZ06]

This thing was around $30 from Brownells. The white cord gives good contrast against the black reticle.

I use this along with a laser level that projects a "cross" at 10'.

Its perfect, and it takes all of 10 minutes from start to finish.

 

[elfster1234]

I see a lot of questions on this lately.

Sandman0077 is correct.... the level on top of the turret really doesn't do anything... I just like to have it there for a reference or difference between the main rail and scope turret... as in the OP, main key (in my opinion) is keeping the level on the main rail level.

 

[courtier]

Thanks to the OP and all of the others who have posted helpful tips. I'm just about to mount my first scope (to my first rifle) and this thread has been invaluable.

Not to thread jack, but on a related topic I'm looking for some hints or tips about how to find your ideal (prone) shooting position in relation to a chassis system that allows adjustment for height of cheek well, length of comb and pull, etc. My chassis (Cadex dual strike) has an unusually long top rail which is confusing me as to where to mount the scope (in terms of forward/back). Do I just pick a spot, mount (and level) the scope, and then make adjustments to the chassis (height, length, etc.) until I get comfortable or is there a more "scientific" approach as to where to start with the mount position on the rail?

 

[Notso]

Interesting thread, but wow it seems like people are WAY overthinking this and making it harder than necessary. The main point to me is to get the scope crosshairs level to the gun. Using the feeler gauge method (feeler gauges between the flat pic rail and the flat underside of the scope, tighten the rings down and be done) to make sure the scope is dead level to the gun and then go shoot.

If you have a scope where the crosshairs are canted in the tube and the feeler gauge method doesn't work - then send the scope back. Because I don't think any amount of gymnastics is going to make it a good shooter because even if the crosshairs are now level to the earth, they are not likely to track perfectly straight up and down and side to side as you move the turrets - defeating the whole point.

The real trick will be when you go to the range. It is now the shooters job to get the rifle level. Whether you use a level on the scope or eyeball it - that will be where the payback will be at long range. The human eye is usually pretty good at judging level, just go out and practice. IMHO, the best thing you can do for that practice to train your eye and your muscle memory for level is to start with targets that have some very defined horizontal and vertical - like crosses or diamonds or something (rather than pure circles) and make sure they are level when you place them out there on the range. That will train both your eye and your muscles to remember what that picture looks like and over time you will naturally learn how to level the gun when you get behind it. All this plumb bob thing in the bedroom, seems like overkill to me.

 

[Notso]

Good thread here, and great info. Another easy way that I use is if you purchase good quality Picatinny rails level your rifle on a Bipod and bags or a vise then, you can use a set of feeler gauges, slide it into one of the grooves of the pic rail under the flat spot of the scope after its lightly mounted in the rings, tilt the gauge up towards the bottom of the scope and make it completely flush with the bottom side of the scope. Note** by flush I dontmean you can turn a feeler gauge completely straight up and down under your scope, it will be slanted but if you look at a light on the other side of the junction of the gauge and the scope there should be 0 light visible as the bottom of the scope and gauge are perfectly mated. Then torque it down to spec, recheck, then your done. Quick, easy, always worked and been a trick I have used for years.

And just to cover my tail you have to, HAVE to use quality equipment or this will not work. My gauges were made on a CNC at a machine shop in my town so I know they are 100% true. You don't have to go as far as I did but I'm a pessimist about my tools lol

RevZ - I read through your description of using feeler gauges and maybe I'm just misunderstanding your process. But you make it sound like you insert the feeler gauge ON END (blade vertical) through the slot in the pic rail. Am I reading that right? If so, that seems a really odd way to do it.

This is how I've always used the feeler gauges:

 

[bogeybrown]

Interesting thread, but wow it seems like people are WAY overthinking this and making it harder than necessary. The main point to me is to get the scope crosshairs level to the gun.

Nah, the point is to get the reticle of the scope plumb to gravity/level with the world. Where the "debate" tends to come in is between those who ALSO level the rifle to the reticle, and those who allow for a cant of the rifle while maintain a plumb/level reticle.

 

[Notso]

Nah, the point is to get the reticle of the scope plumb to gravity/level with the world. Where the "debate" tends to come in is between those who ALSO level the rifle to the reticle, and those who allow for a cant of the rifle while maintain a plumb/level reticle.

But I could plumb the scope to the gravity level of the world using the plumb bob hanging from the door trick, but with the rifle sideways. What have I gained?

Good on anyone who goes through this exercise. I'm just saying I think its overkill. Get the scope level to the rifle 1st. Then go out and shoot and learn how to get the rifle level to the world once you're on the range. My $.02 only. Do whatever floats your boat.

 

[elfster1234]

The problem with feeler gauge is the scope is leveled based on the bottom of the scope..... What if the bottom of the scooe isnt perfect 90degree to the crosshair elevation?

Second, IMO, if you level / mount your scope by what feels natural and level, then its absolutely impossible to repeat that process when you take your shot after the scope is mounted..... Same goes for the method in my OP, its impossible unless you have a scope level which is too distracting and takes up too much time IMO..... If thats the case, then id rather have my set up dead nuts level as in my OP....

Interesting thread, but wow it seems like people are WAY overthinking this and making it harder than necessary. The main point to me is to get the scope crosshairs level to the gun. Using the feeler gauge method (feeler gauges between the flat pic rail and the flat underside of the scope, tighten the rings down and be done) to make sure the scope is dead level to the gun and then go shoot.

If you have a scope where the crosshairs are canted in the tube and the feeler gauge method doesn't work - then send the scope back. Because I don't think any amount of gymnastics is going to make it a good shooter because even if the crosshairs are now level to the earth, they are not likely to track perfectly straight up and down and side to side as you move the turrets - defeating the whole point.

The real trick will be when you go to the range. It is now the shooters job to get the rifle level. Whether you use a level on the scope or eyeball it - that will be where the payback will be at long range. The human eye is usually pretty good at judging level, just go out and practice. IMHO, the best thing you can do for that practice to train your eye and your muscle memory for level is to start with targets that have some very defined horizontal and vertical - like crosses or diamonds or something (rather than pure circles) and make sure they are level when you place them out there on the range. That will train both your eye and your muscles to remember what that picture looks like and over time you will naturally learn how to level the gun when you get behind it. All this plumb bob thing in the bedroom, seems like overkill to me.

 

[secondofangle]

Here's a challenge to everybody who thinks their scope is level. Well, 2 challenges, really

1.) hang a 15' section of paracord at 30-40 yards and recheck your plumb with your rifle level at this longer distance, over a longer section of the reticle. Every time I have done this, I have found that my closer distance plumb lines have been misleading. you can also have a carpenter's level to check the horizontal too. I have found that when I use only a short section of the vertical reticle, I have errors. If I line the top of the reticle at the top of the paracord, and check way further down over the longer section of paracord, the small errors that I could not see at short distance become apparent.

2.) take a target and put 2 bullseyes 20.94" apart. Draw a line between tehm and another line on the target that is 90 degrees to that line. hang the target at 100 yards using a long level to assure that the axis between the two bulls eyes is perpendicular to the ground. shoot a group at the bottom bullseys, then dial up 20 MOA and shoot a second group. Draw a line between the center of the two groups. Is it perfectly perpendicular to the ground (and the horizontal line you drew on the target)?

 

[Pinecone]

Then go out and shoot and learn how to get the rifle level to the world once you're on the range. My $.02 only. Do whatever floats your boat.

So you don't believe in natural point of aim?

 

[Kamkaze]

I got them from menards,,,,, so if menards has them i'm rather sure home depot or lowes would have the same. If you can, take it out of the package and match it up with a more expensive one on the shelf IF you don't have a better level at home.

Or just use one of the high end levels at the big box store you are buying them from.