My thoughts on the Atlas-update

#51
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

macman2564, my experience, a lot of things work better in concept than they do in reality, trust me I've taken plenty of concepts to the next step and been sorely disappointed.

The issue is the knob NOT panning with the rifle pan, if it stops then it is either getting tighter or looser. My thinking has been to isolate the Knob from the other components shaft, so it would be independent. However, thinking about what Hellbender has done, basically raised the knob away from the UHMW ring the knob rested on. This in theory should allow the knob to be free from any contact with the base and move as the rifle is panning. In theory....

sobrbiker883, thanks for posting that up here, SH is indeed a great site because of the quality of folks that are members here. The Bellville washers were to take up tolerance and add tension in the "Pre-set" manner, we are stacking them 3 one direction one reversed now. I'm wondering if the little UHMW spacer that the knob rests on is allowing just enough friction to stop the knob when panning resulting in it loosening up? If this is the case, then adding another bellville washer to the lower stack would be just enough to hold the knob of the UHMW spacer. Might be just the ticket...

How about it Hellbender, can you adjust the tension and it stay at that setting through many pannings?

DC Smith, rgr that. That will be my goal on any modifications.
 
#52
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

I spent some time on the phone with Kasey the other day. He was very open about input for his bi-pod. Even though I went back to my harris. I still think the atlas has some great features, I just like some thing that does not loosen up when I shoot. I have a good friend that shoots a Sako that has bipod that almost flops in the wind it is so loose but he loads it up and can out shoot me any day of the week (JL from WV). So I know a tight bipod is not nessary for accurte shooting. Anyone on the fence should try one and see if it works for them if not resell it. Thank you Kasey for putting out a new and different product
 
#53
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

Kasey,
I don't want you to think I am in any way trying to tell you what to do, and also don't want to seem to be a know it all, but I am a world class problem solver, a 49 year old, retired engineer with a bunch of inventions under my belt and what I did above fixed the problem totally, at least on MY bipod.

If you do what I did above with the addition of a molded in nylon locking plug in the 1/4 X 20 nut and replace my rubber O-ring with another Belleville washer the problem will be solved.

I can take my bipod legs (installed on rifle) and work them back and forth continuously and the tension knob stays still with the rifle, it does NOT move with the leg block, as it did before.

The additional washer raises the knob away from the leg base totally, but this, in itself, will not stop the rotation. I actually REMOVED the Knob and the 1/4-20 nut would still unscrew as you worked the legs....

Placing the Bellvilles with the minor diameters ONLY touching the flat washers reduces the rotating friction top to bottom, hard to explain.....

Think of it this way, if just the Minor diameter is trying to turn the flat washer (I.E. trying to unscrew the nut) you only have a small circle (less friction)rubbing the washer, the more Minor diameters that directly touch in the stack, the less rotating friction is being transferred through the stack (trying to unscrew the nut).
The MOST rotating friction would be transferred by cupping all the washers together.

The way I have the stack placed transfers the least possible twisting force from the top to the bottom.

A nylon inserted nut (Not a nyloc, not enough room), in addition, should make it bombproof. I am gonna take a little monofilament fishing line and screw in the threads of mine. It works perfect now, but if the friction changed slightly (fine dust, wear, etc) it could change the interior dynamics slightly.

CAVEAT: If someone likes a loose, floppy bipod, I don't know if the stack will allow that, as I have increased the overall height of the stack, I like mine pretty firm.

Again, just trying to help make a great product even better (and at practically no add'l cost or re-engineering required).
 
#54
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

Hellbender, all of that makes great sense and thanks a ton for your interest and assertive action. And I'm being as transparent as possible here, all input is welcome. I'm NOT an engineer, I'm not a college educated anything, just a guy with ideas and a bit of a knack. So your expertise is appreciated.

I'll stack one up like you said and see what results I get. Not sure what you mean by nylon inserted nut, but understand it would be insurance against un-intentional knob rotation.

And just for clarity, you can adjust the tension via the knob, do panning and the tension remains the same?
 
#55
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

Kasey, how 'bout I get the Atlas I've now got sent in to you and you can check the rattle on the legs and use it as a test mule for the tension adjustment/stacking or whatever fix you'd like to try?

I think Hellbender is onto something with the bearing surface of the bellevilles.......
 
#56
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

Kasey, the nut I'm talking about has a small nylon plug inserted into the threads, you can get the same effect by laying a couple of small pieces of nylon mono filament fishing line in the threads. (Which actually, should work quite well)

They would probably be a special order, as, if I remember, that was a thin pattern SS nut.

As an alternative, now that I think of it, I'd bet Permatex makes a "Locktite" that allows movement after setup, doesn't lock, as such, just resists movement, but doesn't take a hard set, like normal threadlockers.

It won't need much, and may not need it at all, but I would do it in a production environment, as someone could soak the thing in oil or something, and slightly change the dynamics.


THIS IDEA NIXXED, SEE BELOW POST>>>
PPS: The easiest and best thing, now that I think on it a bit, would be to slightly deform the threads on the 1/4 X20 part of the shaft, it sounds crude, but just get a pair of good, large Vise-Grips (take a flat file and smooth the serrations on the clamping tip of the jaws) and mash the threads slightly where the nut rides, play with it a bit until you get the friction up just a little when the nut turns.

For production, get the Vise Grips set right and tack weld the adjusting screw in place.
 
#57
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

And to add, YES, it will pan and tension stays the same, I'm not You Tube savvy or I'd do a little video for you.

If you mount it on the gun, then hold the gun pointing straight up with the bipod legs pointing directly at you, grab the legs and pan them (20 deg.+ & - semicircle motion) the Tension knob does NOT move, only the legs and block. Tension remains the same.

Stock, it would totally loosen in as little as 2 full cycles, and it is NOT just the Knob friction, remove the knob, tighten just the nut and it still does the same thing, So you have to fix both areas.
 
#58
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

Kasey,

Another thing that would help slightly, would be to source flat washers without stamped letters, anything to reduce friction on the turning surfaces. Make sure they are the same size and thickness.

As it is now, place the stamped letters AWAY from the Bellville stack. Maybe slide the flat washers around on some 400 grit emery paper to knock off the high points.
 
#59
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

Kasey,

After sleeping on it, Nix the mashed thread idea I proposed above, I would need to know the alloys and hardnesses of the SS components to know if they may gall after extended use.

Here's what you need for the nut, call them and get some samples, also ask if they have different compounds for the nylon to play with.....

http://www.nylok.com/downloads/f_torqpatch.pdf
 
#61
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

I've got 427's rifle for the weekend and he has an Atlas on it. It will be the first time I've really got to try one so I can finally make up my mind about it.











But if I don't like it, Kasey is gonna pay!!!!
 
#62
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

Hellbender, did you remove the UHMW spacer? This spacer is what the knob was to rest on, meaning it's position remained constant while the 1/4-20 nut moved inside the "socket" of the knob. By adding the 5th Bellville I suspect the knob no longer rides on this spacer and now, when tightened up, will get closer to the base. But if the spacer is left in there, the knob will never contact the base. I think this spacer was a source of "Base friction" that added to the "Bellville washer stack friction" resulting in the knob working loose.

By George, Hellbender I think you have something here!

I'm going to play with that a bit and see what I get and if it does resolve this issue, I would like to compensate you.

Whatever CKA, I'm already paying for you, remember I am a tax-payer!
 
#63
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

Kasey,
I just have a minute to answer, but don't think mine had a UHMW spacer at all, my tension knob was fully seated in the "V" at the shoulder of the knob and leg block junction. When assembled (stock), the knob had only approx. 008-.010" (not measured) clearance from the body to the knob. Assembled now (after my mods),it probably has .020".

When I pulled the 1st LH thread nut off and removed the knob, I could immediately see the 1/4-20 nut, there was no spacer.

Was it flat washer size (1/4" id) or just a thin large diameter ring down in the body?

If it's not in my top pic above, it wasn't there, unless it is a small ring down inside the leg block.
 
#65
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

Kasey,

I pulled it apart again, and yes, the spacer is in there.

I'd leave it in there, just as a buffer, in case someone came down hard (i.e. dropped it or fell on it) on the knob somehow.

If it works, personal compensation is not necessary, but.... maybe put up another bipod, maybe just a standard one, for the Wounded Warrior Foundation, if that would not be too much to ask?

I think just a $20 raffle ticket would pull in a bunch of $$ to help those guys out. I bet if we pitched it right, 100-200 guys just from this site may buy one, but it may be too big a PITA to do a raffle, I don't know. Maybe PP only? Or maybe just do it like you did the last one.

What ever you want to do will be fine, and I hope the bipod solution works for you.

I'll PM my personal contact info to you, if I can help out anymore, call me anytime.
 
#66
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

Hellbender, thanks, and rgr that on leaving it in, they fit fairly snug and can't rattle so the spacer is good insurance.

Regarding your compensation by means of another offering of a Atlas, I think that is a great idea besides being very generous on your part. I think $20.00 is a good number, we can do checks, cash or MO's to my PO Box and on whatever date you decide on, we'll drop all names in a hat and let a 3rd party draw one out, the winner gets the Atlas and again, all the money will go to the Wounded Warrior Foundation. And in addition, everyone that buys a ticket, gets a t-shirt from B&T, pretty sweet, right?

I honestly had no idea the other one would go that high, but I'm happy to send them a $1600.00 check which is direct reflection on the quality of folks at this site.

You call it Hellbender, time and date and we'll roll with it.

I'll go;
Atlas (winners choice, BT10 or BT10-NC)
Cleats
Skis
Extensions
and
Personalized Atlas Pouch with winners name.
and
T-Shirts for everyone that enters (one per person please, meaning if you buy 10 tickets you get just uno shirt-o)
 
#67
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

I for one am jazzed to see more than one good thing come from not biting my tongue and sharing my opinion. I figured I was just going to get dogpiled by the koolaid crowd.
Honesty really is the best policy for all!
 
#68
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

Shit Kasey, you rock. I just bought some more stuff from you and will continue to do so in the future.

I am sending a donation to you for WW, and I will definitely be in on this raffle too.


Hellbender you rock too, great idea (on both counts).
 
#73
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I figured I was just going to get dogpiled by the koolaid crowd.</div></div>

Don't think your actions have gone unnoticed....

KoolAidManShotgun.gif
 
#74
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gugubica</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hellbender, you really need to go into the making gear/making gear better business. </div></div>

It's hard to balance out doing what you WANT to do, and what you HAVE to do.

Shooting is my hobby and I want to keep it fun.

My last hobby, Jeeps, I turned into a business and it quit being fun, it makes good money, but when you HAVE to do it, it quits being fun, at least for me.

I do a lot of independent consulting stuff, and I can pick and choose what I want to do that way.

Sucessful products require 3 steps:

First is the idea; they are easy to come up with, everybody has them. At one time while in the Jeep aftermarket business I had 72 products on the drawing board. (EASY)

Step 2 is actually transforming the idea into a product and making it work (economically). (HARD)

Step 3 is getting them to market and having the resources to do it. (HARDEST)

I excel at the 1st two steps and hate the last.

Now I can enjoy the first 2 and let the other guys worry about the last one!
 
#75
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

I have 2 altas's already. I love em. My most used one has gotten a little loose. I talked with Kasey about it he said send em in for updates. I've been dragging my feet because I didn't want to be without them during deer season.

I'm been watching this thread. I'm glad Ive waited to send them in.

I'll definitely be in on the raffle just for the t shirt. If I win I'll have Kasey get it to someone that can really put it to good use.

In the meantime I'm going to have to find more products to buy from Kasey.

Kasey you rock!!!!
 
#76
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

I want to tell each and everyone that participated in this post thank you. All but a few posts were constructive geared Rtowards building a better product which is truly appreciated.

Regarding the raffle, Hellbender and I are sorting it out before seeking Lowlights blessings on proceeding with it.

So please stay tuned!
 
#79
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

This has been one of the best posts I've seen in a while and one I hope gets more attention.

A great product soon to be made better. This how the perfect bipod will be created. People talking and discussing REAL issues with products.

Thanks,
Tom Sarver
TVP
 
#80
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

Yep no matter if you run the Atlas or not you have to appreciate how Kasey is willing it discuss issues and design ideas, that is very rare in any venue.

I haven't had an issue (that I've noticed) with my atlas loosening while panning, but admittedly I haven't done a lot of panning from a single position, so I probalby would not have noticed it.

One issue I've had happen 2-3 times with mine that does bother me and I haven't seen mentioned in the past is that when using the bipod legs in the 45 deg angle. 3-4 times now I've had a leg collapse under recoil, causing the rifle to tip over and dropping the barrel into the ground or onto the bench. I've been using the bipod for a few months now frequently so it's a rare occurrence but believe me when I say having your barrel bounce off the edge of a concrete bench when one bipod leg collapses and the rifle tips over is more than enough.

At first I thought it was just me not putting enough preload into the bipod on the bench, but I've had it happen prone as well now. So I've gone back to using it in only the 90 degree leg setting. I know when I first got it I thought it looked like there was very little leg engagement in the notches but no one else seems to having an issue. Perhaps snugging up the bolts that tension the leg swiveling would help.

I do love the 45 degree leg angle option, it really allows a lot more preload than the 90 degree setting. For me in the 90 degree setting the rubber feet turn way too easy and don't allow much preload before the bipod walks forward as the feet rotate.
 
#81
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

ToddM, Thanks for the kind words and honestly I appreciate feedback that is constructive as we can use it to build a better product.

Regarding your 45* leg position, first I'm sorry that the Atlas played a part in that situation. Second I would offer that if you did not check, that you makes sure the leg is fully seated in the notch, no matter the 90 or 45. At first they seem a bit stiff but as the brass washers smooth out with use the legs should more or less snap into the notches to their full extent. This I know, there are folks shooting the soup out of them at the 45 mark (even one leg at 45 the other at 90...) and I'm not hearing this type of feedback. So if you made sure they were in full contact then maybe there is a defect. We have now sold over a thousand of them so anything is possible!

Regarding the "pre-load" and the legs rotating, I'm not sure how you pre-load or how much you are loading but the only time I get the legs to roll is if i take the weight off them. Member Hellbender did a test on drag of the Atlas and I do not recall any comments about the legs rolling. But again, we all have different shooting styles.

One question, when did you buy your Atlas?
 
#82
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

Recently got my Atlas Bipod V7 in the mail. I cannot believe the quality and function that comes out of this. The customer service was absolutely top notch
grin.gif
. (Thanks Kasey!)
Took it shooting today in the 12 Degree weather, it was definitely worth it. Needless to say, it performed flawlessly, and after seeing it firsthand I was hooked on the AccuShot name.

A few days after I received it, I put an order in for the Rail Mounted Monopod with Quick knob. I can only guess it will serve me as well as the bipod has so far.

A huge plus one to Kasey, Accushot will recieve many more of my dollars when the rifles are built.
wink.gif
grin.gif
 
#85
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

Shootist...Hellbender just did a drag test and then IIRC played with the internals...not sure if Kasey will be utilizing that mod or not. Might pm him on here, but rest assured the Atlas is well worth the money and is great kit the way it is right now
 
#86
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

I sent mine back for Kasey to re-work. I got it back in 2 business days. I was suppose to shoot with it last week to test it out, but had to cancel the shoot. I'm gonna try to shoot it prior to the 23rd. I'll debrief you guys after.
 
#87
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

Adician, thanks, I'm getting old, thinking of shooting in 12 degree weather gave me the chills.....

netranger6, I hope there are no issues, but they are manmade so if you have any issues come straight to me and I'll do all I can as quick as I can to make it right.

shootist2004, we are stacking the bellville washers as Hellbender suggested on all our bipods now.

Thanks deadly0311!

.308Shooter, looking forward to it!
 
#89
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

Got my Accushot Rail Mounted Monopod with Quick knob, as usual, fit and finish are astounding, and delivery time was ten times faster than I thought possible.

I'm still waiting on an order from Brownells that was shipped the fifteenth. I got this thing 3 days after I ordered it.

Thanks again Kasey! Amazing quality product, worth every darn penny.
 
#90
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

Kasey, I ordered a bipod with spigot from Adam last Wednesday or Tuesday. Not sure how long he had it in stock, so was wondering if this particular one I receive will have the washers mod already done to it.
 
#91
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

Kasey,

I received it in early February and it didn't have the quiet leg update. Mine doesn't seem like the legs are "tight" in that they respond as you said they easily rotate and drop into the notch, and the legs have a little wiggle so there's clearance on the brass bushings and the leg. Perhaps it's me just not making 100% sure they are fully engaging the notches, I'll have to do a better job of that. Especially out here in the desert perhaps I'm getting some sand/dirt in there as a range day progresses and they are not engaging fully.

I'll be extra careful with the leg engagement and see how it goes.
 
#92
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas

Adician, thanks, doing what we can here! Glad you got it and like what you are seeing.

netranger6, Adam moves a lot of our stuff so unless it was on the shelf and he over-looked it, you will get the latest version.

ToddM, There should be some play in the "joint" of the legs, and you should not have to baby it regarding the notches. The legs should rotate and them snap into the notches. Your is from the first run and I'd like to look at it and update it for you at no charge other than your retun S&H, we'll paty to send it back to you.
 
#93
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas-update

The Atlas I reviewed has made it home from getting the upgrades Helbender helped Kasey out with.

I haven't had a chance to take it out and put some rounds through it yet, but here's the initial impression:
<span style="font-size: 26pt">WOW-now that's better!!</span>

I can tighten the bipod up to where if takes effort to cant the rifle (like I like it) and from playing around dry firing and handling it does not seem to loosen up. Once set where I wanted it, I sat down with the rifle, folded the legs up and panned it back and forth 50+ times vigorously then went back on the floor prone and it was still as tight as I like it.
I have a feeling this will make all the difference in the world to this shooter, and am hopeful that it stays like this under actual firing conditions (I don't see why it wouldn't).

I'm very happy that this thread has helped to improve what I feel was the one weak link in the setup. Thanks to Hellbender for his engineering input and a big thanks to Kasey for being open to improvement!

Now I just need to get a little dough together for a BT17 rail and I think this may have a permanent home on my 7-08!
 
#95
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas-update

Kasey,

Got it today, and from hand molesting it, I like it. Gonna slap her on the GAP and play with it tonight, see if she loosens up or not. Gotta say, I really like the design and workmanship.

Question: This is my first AICS, well hell, first real high dollar rifle, a GAP in 1.5. My question, is should there be a little of back lash in the block of the AICS, where the spigot is mounted to? Seems like there is a marginal amount.
 
#96
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas-update

sobrbiker883, glad to hear you got it and like what you are seeing so far, we'll look forward to your range report.

palmik, we started stacking them Hellbender's way right after his post, so any shipped after that date would be done that way.

netranger6, that is a nice rifle, I'm honored you chose the Atlas for it. I don't own any custom rifles but hope to thin out the beaters and get one. Regarding the AI spigot, there is more or less tolerance in the mating between the spigot and the block, including how deep the block sits in the frame. For some owners this play is not acceptable to their shooting style. My personal opinion, get behind the rifle and shoot it, I doubt you will notice any effect from this "backlash" or play. I'll look forward to your report as well.
 
#99
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas-update

shooting4life, yep, if it is loosening up when you pan, send it back to the PO Box and we'll do the upgrade and send it back. Just be sure to include instructions as to the issue and your return address.
 
#100
Re: My thoughts on the Atlas-update

As an owner of this bi-pod I also see the issue discussed. Along with the mentioned issue I see another. When shooting my 308 rifle with the legs forward the rubber feet grip the surface the legs are sitting on and pull one of the legs out of the locked position and collapse one side of the bi-pod.



_U6L0252a.jpg
 
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