My Two Options

[e1harris]

This is my first post, nice to meet ya’ll. I know enough to know that I don’t know enough. But I’m smart enough to go out and find the answers.

I’m active military, so I own and am familiar with the AR platform. I also own a .30-30 Winchester that I have owned and hunted white tailed deer down in Texas for years.

This is my first foray into buying / building / tweaking a bolt gun. I’ve been reading and searching on the forums for weeks, so I’d like to think that I have done all of my research. So I just have a few lingering questions. This platform will be for 90% plinking (I have a range that goes out to 1000 yards nearby, though I don’t anticipate shooting that far).

I’ve already placed an order with Nightforce for a 3.5-15x50 F1 NXS. Do it right the first time I say.

I’ve got a bead on a used Remington 700 SPS Varmint in .308 for $350. It’s in good shape. I’m going to drop it in a Bell & Carlson M40, get a trigger job (or maybe Timney drop-in), get a Badger Ordnance Base installed, and get the hell out there and start shooting. I’ll blueprint/true the action, replace the barrel, and upgrade the stock to something fully glass bedded in time (maybe a Manners or McMillan).

The other option I’m weighing is to skip the used 700, and get a Barreled Action and get myself started on a real tack driver from the get go.

Who makes “the most economical barreled action” in .308 on the market? It doesn’t need to be the best of the best; it just needs to be better than a blueprinted/trued re-barreled Remington 700.

You guys are awesome, and thank you in advance for your responses!

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I'll throw another in the mix, take a look at these:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...les/84808-new-fn-sprs-a2-a4-****sale****.html

Less than $2k gets you one with CDI bottom metal, and a badger bolt knob shipped to your FFL. You'll never have to do anything to it. Just mount your F1 to it with factory rings and go shooting.

 

[Shanerbanner10]

Get a Timney or an old style rem trigger. I would say go straight for a good barreled action. Simply for the reason that you'll know when there's an error in the shoot, its not the rifle. Check out the for sale section on here. All sorts of good stuff floating around.

 

[ZLBubba]

For a new guy, you're definitely headed in the right direction. Were it me, I'd keep an eye out for a barreled action and a used Manners with a mini chassis. Bolt that action in, mount your scope, and you're good to go.

 

[e1harris]

I'll throw another in the mix, take a look at these:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...les/84808-new-fn-sprs-a2-a4-****sale****.html

Less than $2k gets you one with CDI bottom metal, and a badger bolt knob shipped to your FFL. You'll never have to do anything to it. Just mount your F1 to it with factory rings and go shooting.

I have to be honest. I was kind of set on a Remington 700 action. However, the link you posted is one hell of a deal. Can you tell me more about the FN SPR A2's? A quick search showed that they have chrome lined barrels.

I always thought that chrome lined barrels were more of a military application for corrosion / tracers. What is the consensus on using chrome lined barrels in precision platforms?

 

[e1harris]

Get a Timney or an old style rem trigger. I would say go straight for a good barreled action. Simply for the reason that you'll know when there's an error in the shoot, its not the rifle. Check out the for sale section on here. All sorts of good stuff floating around.

Yeah, I've heard that the Timneys and the original Remington 700 triggers are more desirable than the X-Mark Pro's. Also I've heard that the Jewell's are better for benchrest than field / lying in the dirt gun (FYI I'm a lying in the dirt kind of guy).

I'm headed over to the sale section. But in general... what manufacturers offer economical barreled actions in .308? Again, it doesn’t need to be the best of the best; it just needs to be better than a blueprinted/trued re-barreled Remington 700.

 

[e1harris]

For a new guy, you're definitely headed in the right direction. Were it me, I'd keep an eye out for a barreled action and a used Manners with a mini chassis. Bolt that action in, mount your scope, and you're good to go.

Yeah, thats exactly what I was thinking.

A. I don't mind spending "the right amount of money for the right amount of product". What I'm really trying to avoid is dropping $3,000++ on something like a GA Precision rifle (it's just no fun to buy a finished product vs. kind of making something your own, kind of like restoring a car).

B. I don't need a 0.5 MOA rifle, 0.8 MOA +/- is more than enough for me. I couldn't stomach dropping $3,000 on something that isn't 1.7 times more accurate than a $1,700 rifle.

 

[fdkay]

here you go,
trued, barreled action with high quality match grade barrel from an excellent gunsmith
Base Custom Rifle | RW Snyder Gunsmithing

 

[Shanerbanner10]

Yeah, I've heard that the Timneys and the original Remington 700 triggers are more desirable than the X-Mark Pro's. Also I've heard that the Jewell's are better for benchrest than field / lying in the dirt gun (FYI I'm a lying in the dirt kind of guy).

I'm headed over to the sale section. But in general... what manufacturers offer economical barreled actions in .308? Again, it doesn’t need to be the best of the best; it just needs to be better than a blueprinted/trued re-barreled Remington 700.

Any of the reputable builders would be a good place to start: GAP, SAC, AO, etc. They all have a proven record and are good to their people, as well as building solid rifles. My biggest regret on my first build was not getting a custom action. After toying and shooting with guys from a certain that did extremely well in the PRS I can't stand my trued Remington, mainly just because i can't keep up with those other guys.

 

[Smooth73]

Based on what your looking for, I would take a look at Jim Briggs at Northland shooter supply. He does actions for savage and the Remington 700. offers criterion barrels, custom hand lapped. Around 500 for the action, 300-350 for the barrel. If you go savage you don't have to have it bedded, just drop into whatever chassis our stock. He does all the bottom metal work for dbm. rems have to be bedded though. Good luck!

 

[e1harris]

here you go,
trued, barreled action with high quality match grade barrel from an excellent gunsmith
Base Custom Rifle | RW Snyder Gunsmithing

From their site... "At the heart of the rifle is a fully blueprinted Remington 700 action and either a kreiger or brux stainless steel Remington varmint contour barrel...-20 moa base with four 8-40 screws... 0.250 thick pinned recoil lug...Tuned remington trigger...cerakoted finish” for $1,400.00

If I were to buy a used Remington 700 for $350 and then send it to Krieger, they will true the action and install a barrel with a oversized recoil lug for $735. Figure Cerakote for $350’ish. Hell that’s $1,435 before you even add a trigger job & 20 MOA scope base.


Nice find man! I might have to give them a call.

 

[e1harris]

Any of the reputable builders would be a good place to start: GAP, SAC, AO, etc. They all have a proven record and are good to their people, as well as building solid rifles. My biggest regret on my first build was not getting a custom action. After toying and shooting with guys from a certain that did extremely well in the PRS I can't stand my trued Remington, mainly just because i can't keep up with those other guys.

So I can keep up, thats GA Precision, Short Action Customs and Accurate Ordnance? Still learning the shorthand...

 

[FTC]

If you could get a Remington for 350, you could part off most of your take off items. recouping most of the cost selling them on eBay, leaving you with a very cheap receiver and bolt to build on with your choice of aftermarket stuff

 

[e1harris]

Based on what your looking for, I would take a look at Jim Briggs at Northland shooter supply. He does actions for savage and the Remington 700. offers criterion barrels, custom hand lapped. Around 500 for the action, 300-350 for the barrel. If you go savage you don't have to have it bedded, just drop into whatever chassis our stock. He does all the bottom metal work for dbm. rems have to be bedded though. Good luck!

I don't see on his site that he does Remington Actions, just the Savages. I'll drop him a line and see what he says. Is he making his own actions?

 

[e1harris]

If you could get a Remington for 350, you could part off most of your take off items. recouping most of the cost selling them on eBay, leaving you with a very cheap receiver and bolt to build on with your choice of aftermarket stuff

What do you think I could conservatively get for the stock and trigger? It's an SPS Varmint in .308

 

[Shanerbanner10]

So I can keep up, thats GA Precision, Short Action Customs and Accurate Ordnance? Still learning the shorthand...

You, sir, are correct. there are many, many other great builders out there as well.

 

[FTC]

I just went thru the long rifles inc group buy and put all my stuff on eBay with a $10 start and let it go.
Rifle started as a sps tactical 308-20" barrel and hogue stock vs your longer barrel and nicer stock
Xmark trigger $44
Stock $50
Barrel $125
Bolt body $125 - I had them put in a PT&G for 6.5x47
Bottom metal $90

I was surprised, not a bad return.

 

[Smooth73]

From what I understand he does, but I didn't see the rem actions either, just the barrels for them. It may be worthy to ask though.

Just a thought, but you might consider the savage action. You can rebarrel yourself, better trigger imho, and tighter tolerances. Just my .02

 

[Rogue111]

I had GAP make me a barreled action at a very reasonable price and definitely do not regret it.

 

[ZLBubba]

Yeah, thats exactly what I was thinking.

A. I don't mind spending "the right amount of money for the right amount of product". What I'm really trying to avoid is dropping $3,000++ on something like a GA Precision rifle (it's just no fun to buy a finished product vs. kind of making something your own, kind of like restoring a car).

B. I don't need a 0.5 MOA rifle, 0.8 MOA +/- is more than enough for me. I couldn't stomach dropping $3,000 on something that isn't 1.7 times more accurate than a $1,700 rifle.

If you're ok with a solid .75 MOA gun, then look for a Remington 700 5R. You can definitely pick that up for a reasonable price, hell, even with the factory stock on it. Of all the chassis systems out there, I think the Manners is more forgiving. I love AIAX chasses, but I think they take more getting used to. Either way, that gun will probably out shoot you on your first 1000 rounds or so, and then you'll hopefully start seeing some parity.

You may want to PM bugholes here on the Hide. He has some really nice barreled actions from time to time, as does Mark Gordon. Don't worry, you'll find something that suits you.

 

[MPrimo]

here you go,
trued, barreled action with high quality match grade barrel from an excellent gunsmith
Base Custom Rifle | RW Snyder Gunsmithing

This was going to be my suggestion as well. Robert is building me a 6 Creedmoor like this right now. He also did a 223 for me that shoots great. I have a Manners stock waiting for the barreled action and I'm out the door for less than $2500.

 

[Punisher29073]

5r 308 is what I would be looking for if we're in your shoes.

Ryan

 

[Aries64]

Yeah, I've heard that the Timneys and the original Remington 700 triggers are more desirable than the X-Mark Pro's. Also I've heard that the Jewell's are better for benchrest than field / lying in the dirt gun (FYI I'm a lying in the dirt kind of guy).

I've never owned a Timney but I've shot rifles with Timney 510s' installed. They're a good drop-in trigger. However, for a down-in-the dirt field rifle it's hard to beat an old style (pre-X-Mark/X-Mark Pro) trigger tuned by a gunsmith skilled with Remington 700s.

I'm headed over to the sale section. But in general... what manufacturers offer economical barreled actions in .308? Again, it doesn’t need to be the best of the best; it just needs to be better than a blueprinted/trued re-barreled Remington 700.

What? Exactly what do you mean by "better"? "Better" how and at what? Be specific. By saying "it just needs to be better than a blueprinted/trued re-barreled Remington 700", it sounds as if you think a trued Remington with a custom barrel isn't very "good". That's a myth that has been de-bunked time and again many, many times (including on this site). I'm not going to get into a pissing match with the ill-informed, but rest assured that Remington 700s built by the right gunsmith will more than shoot with high end factory rifles as well as rifles built on high end "custom" actions.

If your definition of "better" is having a fluted bolt, built-in rail, and/or side bolt release that's another story. Side-bolt releases are nice but they aren't a must-have for me. As for bolt fluting - personally, I consider fluted bolts worse-than-useless: Flutes serve as channels for sand, mud, and other shit to enter the action, and while you might be able to order the action without flutes, the machining cost is typically built-in so you're still paying for them (performance/function hit that you actually pay for = worse-than-useless). A built-in rail can be handy but then you're limited to/stuck with the built-in MOA. Built-in MOA works for most people, but isn't ideal for certain applications. For instance, a Surgeon 1581XL is popular for .338 LM and other long-range calibers and has 30 MOA built-in. However, while the 30 MOA built into the 1581XL's integrated rail will work for a lot of shooters and scopes, the 30 MOA is less than ideal for others. Case-in-point: The PMII 5-25X[56] (a great scope and match for the .338 LM and other long-range calibers) but the 30 MOA rail won't allow the shooter to dial the full range of Elevation on a PMII 5-25X[56] (26 MILs on the MRAD version) because the recommended base cant for a PMII 5-25X[56] is 45 MOA.


Also, you contradict yourself. First you say that your rifle "just needs to be better than a blueprinted/trued re-barreled Remington 700" (a Remington 700 built by a competent, experienced gunsmith should shoot 1/2 MOA with quality match ammo at 100 yards), but then you say:

I don't mind spending "the right amount of money for the right amount of product". What I'm really trying to avoid is dropping $3,000++ on something like a GA Precision rifle (it's just no fun to buy a finished product vs. kind of making something your own, kind of like restoring a car).

and:

...I don't need a 0.5 MOA rifle, 0.8 MOA +/- is more than enough for me. I couldn't stomach dropping $3,000 on something that isn't 1.7 times more accurate than a $1,700 rifle.

So, what are you really after...

BTW, welcome to the Hide'.


Keith

 

[e1harris]

I just went thru the long rifles inc group buy and put all my stuff on eBay with a $10 start and let it go.
Rifle started as a sps tactical 308-20" barrel and hogue stock vs your longer barrel and nicer stock
Xmark trigger $44
Stock $50
Barrel $125
Bolt body $125 - I had them put in a PT&G for 6.5x47
Bottom metal $90

I was surprised, not a bad return.

WOW! Nice return indeed.

 

[e1harris]

What? Exactly what do you mean by "better"? "Better" how and at what? Be specific. By saying "it just needs to be better than a blueprinted/trued re-barreled Remington 700", it sounds as if you think a trued Remington with a custom barrel isn't very "good". That's a myth that has been de-bunked time and again many, many times (including on this site). I'm not going to get into a pissing match with the ill-informed, but rest assured that Remington 700s built by the right gunsmith will more than shoot with high end factory rifles as well as rifles built on high end "custom" actions.

Also, you contradict yourself. First you say that your rifle "just needs to be better than a blueprinted/trued re-barreled Remington 700" (a Remington 700 built by a competent, experienced gunsmith should shoot 1/2 MOA with quality match ammo at 100 yards), but then you say:

So, what are you really after...

You bring up a very valid point about my confusing / conflicting statements.

What I really mean is this. I have planned out my build based upon a used Remington 700 that I can get my hands on for $350.

However, I was pondering about getting a barreled action from a reputable source. My barreled action requirements when it comes to deciding between Used vs. Barreled Action are….

A. A custom action (not an OEM blueprinted Remington 700)
B. Economical (I don’t need a super high-end action, I’m willing to go as low end as necessary so as to remain at least as good or better than blurprinting an OEM Remington)

This is all predicated off of the curiosity as to which manufacturer makes the “cheapest barreled custom action" without being a piece of crap. I totally understand that I'm comparing Apples to Oranges, but I was really more interested in comparing my out of pocket expense.

My problem is... I am just not familiar with who offers barreled actions out there...

 

[Randoman5]

I've never been entirely sure what the functional difference between a custom action and a trued factory action would be. It's bound to have more features such as bigger/pinned/integral recoil lug, built in rail, side bolt release tactical knob, but would it really shoot any different provided they're both straight and concentric?

 

[Andy27AL]

I feel sorry for this guy. He gets on here with his 2 options and the next thing he knows, he's got 10 options that are all excellent.

 

[e1harris]

I've never been entirely sure what the functional difference between a custom action and a trued factory action would be. It's bound to have more features such as bigger/pinned/integral recoil lug, built in rail, side bolt release tactical knob, but would it really shoot any different provided they're both straight and concentric?

I hear you all the way. The whole reason I even initiated this whole conversation was more along the lines of monetary investment & wait times involved with blueprinting / barreling on down the line Vs. getting a Barreled Action up front. I'm more worried about spending too much and or waiting too long for a rifle to come back to me than crazy tight 0.5 MOA groups.

 

[e1harris]

I feel sorry for this guy. He gets on here with his 2 options and the next thing he knows, he's got 10 options that are all excellent.

Don't tell my wife. She approved a Hunting Rifle purchase. LOL She has no idea what she got herself into.

 

[Randoman5]

I hear you all the way. The whole reason I even initiated this whole conversation was more along the lines of monetary investment & wait times involved with blueprinting / barreling on down the line Vs. getting a Barreled Action up front. I'm more worried about spending too much and or waiting too long for a rifle to come back to me than crazy tight 0.5 MOA groups.

I don't have enough information to answer my own question, but I don't see why the two actions which are both "true" wouldn't be capable of the same accuracy. As far as time goes, most custom actions are difficult to find right now and there are smiths who could turn around your action much quicker. Unless you find something like a GAP rifle ready to shoot or someone in the for sale section selling something more complete.

 

[ballistic1]

There are plenty of worked Rem700 based builds that will
shoot toe to toe with a custom action build. If you are seemingly
after the best bang for your buck, then buying that $350 Rem700
you speak of would be a great start. Selling off the balance of
that Rem700 rifle as mentioned is a great way to offset costs
for your build too.

 

[Doeboy]

5r 308 is what I would be looking for if we're in your shoes.

Ryan

Agreed! Yup!

 

[Shanerbanner10]

The words cheap and this whole long range thing just don't belong in the same sentence.

You'll see it about 10,000 times on the hide, buy once cry once. I'm having that problem at the moment because I ignored those words and now want more than my pocket can afford at the moment.

 

[lawman29]

"Who makes “the most economical barreled action” in .308 on the market?" Answer: They don't. Generally with aftermarket/custom stuff there are companies that make actions and companies that make barrels. Then you have companies/gunsmiths who put the two together... Surgeon, Defiance, Stiller, Big Horn etc actions - Bartlein, Kreiger, Brux, and the list goes on of barrel mfgs. Surgeon makes their own rifles off of their action, but they don't make the barrel. Shilen is the only barrel manufacturer I am aware of that is offering barreled actions for sale (DGR & DGV action - $1500). As an example Bugholes (southern precision) offers a .308 barreled action (Stiller action & Bartlein barrel for $1800). They also have actions & barrels for sale from a variety of mfgs. Custom actions are tough to find in stock...and start around $1,300.

 

[Flying Goose]

Don't tell my wife. She approved a Hunting Rifle purchase. LOL She has no idea what she got herself into.

HA! Same story here, I went the SPS used route and I'm now outshooting the rifle, this summer its heading to Long Rifles Inc in SD to get blueprinted along with a few other things. In the end it should be around a 1/2 MOA stick that I personally will be more attached to because I feel that I've earned it piece by piece and not forking out the coin to get a GAP in the first place. Like someone said there are at least 10 good ideas on here but my $.02.

Welcome to the hide and tell your wife we're sorry!

 

[Notso]

If you're ok with a solid .75 MOA gun, then look for a Remington 700 5R. You can definitely pick that up for a reasonable price, hell, even with the factory stock on it.

My impression from shooting several is that 5R milspecs are WAY better than .75 MOA out of the box. With factory match or tuned reloads, I think they will be well under that. If the OP can find one, they are probably the best platform to start with. Very little upgrades would be needed. And if he wants a different stock, the HS Precision takeoff will get him a couple of hundred $$ closer to a stock of his choice. But the HS stock is fine for starting out. Even unbedded - they shoot great.