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Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

Z

ZakBradshaw

Private
Minuteman
Nov 13, 2009
61
0
33
Fort Worth, Texas
#1
Hi, I'm 18 years old and I've owned and shot guns all my life. I have been playing with the idea of getting a gun to shoot long range with. My only problem is that I have a very, very limited budget. I want a gun that can shoot 300-500 yards with decent accuracy, but also has a little bit of take down power. I have recently been given a 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser that has a 24" barrel and a turn down bolt handle. The rifling is excellent. I was hoping this gun would be a good one to start out with. I'm only 18, and I will not be shooting long distances too often, I just want the capability. Is this Mauser a good start? Would it be worth buying a synthetic stock, bipod, and nice scope setup? What kind of accuracy can I expect out of it? What estimated distance will this shoot with reasonable accuracy? I looked at some long range ammo for this rifle and I think it had a 39" drop at 500 yards I think. it was about an inch off of the .223 as well as 30-06. Let me know what you think. Please remember I am only 18 so I don't have the money to be shelling out for $1,000 guns. Also, do you have any suggestions for making it more accurate than it is now? Zak.
 
#2
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

Zak, welcome to the hide! You seem like a smart young man and we'll be happy to help. Fill out your profile a little more, tell us where your from, a member or two might be able to help you out.

The mauser may be a tough start, it all depends, some guns that shouldn't shoot do...and others that should don't.

If you can get 1moa out of it you'll be able to do a lot with it.
 
#5
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

Ok, thank you. I've wanted a rifle designated for longer distances (I generally only buy carbine style rifles), and I figured I need a decent long range one. I was going to do it with a Russian 91/30 I had, but I ended up having to sell it. Plus, as I started reading about it, the 7.62x54R is not an ideal long range caliber. I have read good stuff about the 6.5x55 Swedish though.
 
#6
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

The 6.5X55 is an excellent long range round and there are good high-BC bullets available for it if you reload. The trick is to find a decent, affordable bolt action rifle in that caliber. The Mauser might just work. Maybe PM Nick, 'HasgunWilltravel' here on the Hide, he knows his Mauser bolt guns and could point you in the right direction.
 
#8
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

If you can find a Savage heavy barreled rifle for a decent price, that's the way I would go. Mine is a Savage 12FV in .223, but unless you are going to put in the time for reloading then 500 yards is pushing it for .223. A .308 would be great at 500 yards with surplus ammo or better and the rifle would cost about the same as the other calibers but with .308 you should be able to find a used one since it's a popular choice.

Good luck either way!
 
#10
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

DSC02708.jpg


Here is the Mauser I have... Sorry for the bad picture quality.
 
#13
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

First off buy a copy of the NRA Gunsmiths Guide. That will give you lots of good info on bedding the action, free floating the barrel,trigger adjustment, pillar bedding etc.

to get optimum accuracy you need to "tune it" so to speak. The NRA book will show you lots of nice things.

Of the rifles you have the Swede Mauser is the best going in your favor.
 
#16
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

That is a very nice looking rifle. Good luck.

There are some of the nicest guys in the world on this site but there are also some A$$holes. Just read and read then try to ask some informed questions. more than likely anything you want to ask has been covered. This is coming from a dude that has not been doing this long but I am a sponge when it comes to info.

use this for your searching pleasure. Link

Nutt
 
#17
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

Zak I watched a guy shoot that exact rifle you have at a long range event and he did very well with it especially considering that it is around a 100 years old. We were engaging targets from 75 to 1000 yards. He did have a scope with turrets so he could dial in his dope.

Your on the right track, now get out and shoot
laugh.gif
 
#18
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

There is another good book called Accurizing the Factory Rifle.
It will give you lots of hints as well.

I personally use Marinetex Gray to bed rifles and have used Devcon and the Brownell's stuff as well. Speaking of Brownells they have books called Hints and Kinks which are quite good.

The NRA book has lots of nice pics.
 
#19
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

Zak, you've answered your own question. You don't have a lot of cash. You've been given a rifle. Start shooting. Mausers are classic rifles. When you are better than your rifle, you will be older and have the money to upgrade. Buy ammo and have fun with your current gun.
 
#20
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sjm229</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm sure there are many here that are aware of this but I thought you might find it interesting to know that there was a time when the Mosin Nagant was favored by some of the deadliest snipers in history </div></div>

Yeah. The 91/30. I had one, not a sniper though. Very good gun, kick was crazy. The first time I shot it, I put 60 rounds through it and it bruised my shoulder. I'm 6 foot 250 pounds and I've shot alot of guns and never had that happen. I liked it though.
 
#21
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nuttshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is a very nice looking rifle. Good luck.

There are some of the nicest guys in the world on this site but there are also some A$$holes. Just read and read then try to ask some informed questions. more than likely anything you want to ask has been covered. This is coming from a dude that has not been doing this long but I am a sponge when it comes to info.

use this for your searching pleasure. Link

Nutt </div></div>

Thank you. Yeah, it seems like no matter where you go that's how it is. Thank you for the search engine. Zak.
 
#22
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

Thanks guys. I am going to try to start getting the stuff I want soon. I'm glad to know it will be a half way decent starting out rifle for longer distance. I'm going to check into those books. My Uncle (the one who gave me the gun) went through gunsmithing school, so he may already have some of this information about making it more accurate. If not, I'm sure he can point me in the right direction. Thanks again guys, Zak.
 
#23
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

Wow, you are lucky. Get your uncle to show you how to bed, do column bedding, crown barrels (I use 11 deg) and free float barrels.
Another thing to think about. When I was in college about third year I realized I wasn't getting alot of need to know things so I dropped out one semester and took machine shop at local TECH school. Then went back and finished college.
The machine shop training has been an invaluable asset to my life as I use it all the time. I now have a lathe and a mill and really feel for guys who don't.I am told by machinists that guys that can thread on a lathe are becoming harder and harder to find as everyone takes CNC courses and not machine shop courses. One local company is importing machinists from South Africa because they can't find any locals who can run a lathe.
Had a friend know he needed a lathe, went out and bought a big one and had no idea of how to run it. I went over the other day and walked him through his first class on threading. He is 67 and I told him what books to buy and tooling and he ordered it all immediately. I suspect in a couple months he will start to barrel his own rifles.
Make good use of your uncle and learn from him and before long you can give advice to new guys as well.

Just remembered this thread. Has lots of nice pics on pillar bedding. http://www.varminthunters.com/tech/pillar.html
 
#24
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hummer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, you are lucky. Get your uncle to show you how to bed, do column bedding, crown barrels (I use 11 deg) and free float barrels.
Another thing to think about. When I was in college about third year I realized I wasn't getting alot of need to know things so I dropped out one semester and took machine shop at local TECH school. Then went back and finished college.
The machine shop training has been an invaluable asset to my life as I use it all the time. I now have a lathe and a mill and really feel for guys who don't.I am told by machinists that guys that can thread on a lathe are becoming harder and harder to find as everyone takes CNC courses and not machine shop courses. One local company is importing machinists from South Africa because they can't find any locals who can run a lathe.
Had a friend know he needed a lathe, went out and bought a big one and had no idea of how to run it. I went over the other day and walked him through his first class on threading. He is 67 and I told him what books to buy and tooling and he ordered it all immediately. I suspect in a couple months he will start to barrel his own rifles.
Make good use of your uncle and learn from him and before long you can give advice to new guys as well.

Just remembered this thread. Has lots of nice pics on pillar bedding. http://www.varminthunters.com/tech/pillar.html </div></div>

Thanks I really appreciate everything. Yeah, he lives a couple hours away, but I go down there pretty often. Haha, when I showed him the rifle, from what it looked like before he gave it to me, until after I worked on it, he didn't even think it was the same gun. Zak.
 
#25
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

Zak, my buddy and I bought 2 rem 700 sps varmint, heavy barrel, his was in 308, mine was in 7mm-08, after the break-in period we were shooting 1/2" groups, the cost of the rifle is $503, the scope is the bushnell 3200 elite, $200, base & rings $50. $750 and you will have a shooter. Budsgunshop.com can get rifles of almost any cal in a heavy barrel.
 
#27
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

My only problem right now is the cost of the 6.5x55 Swedish ammunition... Cheaper Than Dirt has 20 rounds for $26, and Cabelas has it 20 rounds for $40. Its ridiculous. The cheapest surplus of it I have seen is $12 for 20. My Dad and I already reload .45 ACP and 30-30, so I'm considering buying the dies, new brass and tips, and just making my own. I already have the right primers. I used a cost calculator for reloading, and including the cost of equipment, the first 50 rounds will cost me $1.20 each. If I can reload each brass 5 times, the cost will drop to $0.84 a shot.
 
#28
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

There you go then Zak.reloading is the way to go~!

If you put an add up here on the hide,for used 6.5x55 brass,I bet you could pick some up cheap.

One of the funnest things in rifle shooting you can do is to shoot on steel.It's an instant reward and you can see the strikes well even past a 1000 yards.Especially when spray painted white!!!

Kurt,who owns LVsteel can hook you up with some good targets.He ships some of them in flat rate boxes which saves allot of $ in shipping too.

Steve
 
#29
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There you go then Zak.reloading is the way to go~!

If you put an add up here on the hide,for used 6.5x55 brass,I bet you could pick some up cheap.

One of the funnest things in rifle shooting you can do is to shoot on steel.It's an instant reward and you can see the strikes well even past a 1000 yards.Especially when spray painted white!!!

Kurt,who owns LVsteel can hook you up with some good targets.He ships some of them in flat rate boxes which saves allot of $ in shipping too.

Steve </div></div>


Alright, thanks. Yeah my dad and I have a Lee press. We are still learning the in's and out's of it, but we have loaded about 1000 rounds of .45 ACP, and about 250 rounds of 30-30.
 
#30
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

Ill definitely look into those targets. I've never really shot long range, probably not even over 50 yards before, so I can't wait to get out there and practice. I know when learning anything you want to perfect the basics and then move on from there, so what do you think would be a good starting shooting distance to practice? Roughly 75-100 yards? Zak.
 
#31
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

Practice at the longest range you can get. If you have 100 yards get reduced targets for 600 to 100, 300 to 100 and 200 to 100. You won't get the wind effects but you will have to hold just has hard to achieve the same scores.
Forgot buying any other rifles till you get well established in reloading or you are just throwing money away. Until you get your reloading techniques down to where you are making good ammo everything else is a waste of time.
Ammo is not like gasolene in a car. Just because it goes in the rifle doesn't mean it is worth a crap.
I never even consider the cost of ammo as I get empty brass and I know I have good ammo from the get go.

Call The Rubber Stamp Shop 2822 3rd Ave. N. B-14 Billings, MT 59101 (800) 962-0721 and get a set of their target stamps. they even come with stamp pad. Finest I have ever seen. The set is a 1" solid black dot, a 2" solid black dot and two more with rings. They also make a silhouette rubber stamps which are 25 yards firing equals 250 meters and another 25 yards equals 300 meters. Shoot these at 55 yards and you are duplicating shooting long range. at 600 meters plus. The guy that runs the place is a shooter as well.
I get target material by going by local print shop and they let me have their scrap material they cut off. Either that or take 50 yard pistol targets and fifty of your own silhouettes on the back.

I train new shooters to shoot handguns by having them shoot 22s at 7 yards on the 1" dots. I use the 2" dots for targets at 200 and 300 yards. The silhouette target (25+250) is very interesting to shoot at the 300 yard line.

The guys that have got them like them.
 
#32
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

Yeah, I'm not saying we're experts in reloading, but after loading up a total of 1250 rounds of both rifle and pistol ammunition, we have eliminated all the "rookie" mistakes. I may buy a couple boxes of factory ammo and then after I shoot those Ill try reloading that brass. That may be my best bet. I shoot at my grandparents place, and I think safely I can get about 75 yards. I probably could get 125+ but now they have cows out there so it really limits the shooting lanes. Anyway, I hope to get out there again soon and take some shots. Zak.
 
#34
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

Look into a Nikon Buckmaster or Bushnell 3200 Tactical scope. Both should be easy on your budget but will get you what you need. The Nikon has marked target turrets under the covers, and IMHO slightly better class and turrets (I own both).
 
#35
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ATH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Look into a Nikon Buckmaster or Bushnell 3200 Tactical scope. Both should be easy on your budget but will get you what you need. The Nikon has marked target turrets under the covers, and IMHO slightly better class and turrets (I own both). </div></div>

Thanks, I appreciate the advice. I was really surprised this last weekend, I shot my uncle's .223 Savage and he got a Center Point scope from Wal-Mart, and it is a very good quality scope for $70. I will definitely look into those as well. Zak.
 
#38
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

If you're going to shoot at distance, you absolutely MUST have a scope that has parallax adjustment of some kind. Other than that, keep shooting!
 
#39
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

Thanks! Yeah, my Dad had this scope on his 30-30 and just gave it to me until I can get something better. Right now I just want to shoot the dang thing. I still don't have ammo for it, but I've ordered some components and am supposed to be getting dies in a couple weeks. Hopefully sooner than later. Zak.
 
#40
#41
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

Yeah, $300 is a little out of my price range, and I am not ready for a scope that expensive. If I'm going to spend $300+, I will buy another Yugo SKS or some other firearm. I appreciate the reply though. Zak.
 
#42
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

...spending $300 on a decent scope will get you much closer to your goals than buying another clunker rifle will...

...even a $300 scope will be marginal...

...methinks your priorities are out of order here...
 
#43
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

What be said, plus "long range rifle" and "SKS" don't belong in the same thread. If you're going to buy another rifle to get started in long range, and you're on a tight budget, look for a used Remington 700 in .223. Widely available, cheap to load for, and there's a ton of upgrades available for it.

Define your accuracy goals, say 2 MOA, and practice with the Mauser until you can consistently do it. Find a place to shoot longer distances. 75 yards is so close
that it won't show your mistakes. Come to think of it, at that distance a decent .22 bolt action might be your best choice for a trainer. The rifles and ammo are a lot more affordable.
Scopes: Spend at least as much on the scope as you do on the rifle. You are looking for good glass and repeatability. Do a search for 'box test'. Above all, get out and shoot! Trigger time will teach you more than any book will. Look around your area for ranges, go watch a match, and ask questions. Most shooters will help you get started.

Two more things. First, there is an impressive body of knowledge on this board. Read and learn. Second, after 1200 rounds you're not anywhere near "eliminating all the rookie mistakes in reloading". Continue to pay close attention to every step. Mistakes can be dangerous. After over 30 years reloading, I still goof occasionally.

1911fan

 
#44
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

I just meant for the kind of shooting I have readily available to me and the kind of money I have access to, buying a scope that costs as much as another gun is not a feasible option for me. As far as my needs go, thats like buying a $10,000 engine for a $2,000 Ford Focus... I only mentioned an SKS because you can get a very nice Yugo for the price of that scope. So if I get into long range shooting am I not allowed to still have other firearms? I shoot for fun...not competition or anything else... You can't forget I'm only 18, so spending $300 on a scope that could only get me another inch of accuracy is not worth sacrificing getting another high quality gun.
 
#46
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZakBradshaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So if I get into long range shooting am I not allowed to still have other firearms?</div></div>

If that's the case I'd better turn myself in...
 
#47
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

Well, your OP was about getting into LR shooting. A good scope will get you further down that road than an SKS.
If a scope cuts your groups in half, it's a worthwhile investment. You're better off with fewer higher-quality guns & scopes than with a bunch of lesser quality equipment. If the best your gear can do is 2 MOA, you'll never get any better.
But the best gear is no better than the operator, which is why you should shoot whatever makes you happy. If you want an SKS, buy one! Shoot the piss out of it and have a good time- but recognize it's probably not that helpful in skill development since it's not designed to be accurate. It's designed to be reliable.
I still think a .22 bolt gun with a good scope should be your next gun. Cheap to shoot, and at limited ranges It will teach you a lot about wind. Also, on a limited budget, a .22 is more shooting for less money.
And yes, put a $10,000 engine in your Focus- it will reveal your shortcomings as a driver. Put a $300 dollar scope on your .22 (or your Mauser) and it will reveal your shortcomings as a shooter. If you've got a decent rifle and scope, misses will because you didn't do something right, and you'll learn from it.
You might want to look for NRA Junior Smallbore event in your area.



1911fan
 
#49
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZakBradshaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah, $300 is a little out of my price range, and I am not ready for a scope that expensive. If I'm going to spend $300+, I will buy another Yugo SKS or some other firearm. I appreciate the reply though. Zak. </div></div>

Zak,

At this point in your shooting experience you might not realize the importance of a decent quality scope for long range use.When you get to shoot your 6.5x55 past 300 yards it will become apparent then.

Scopes with target turrets and/or holdover reticles such as a mildot reticle for example are just about a requirement.

I think 1911fan and others are telling you the truth and steering you the right way.

Steve
 
#50
Re: Need Advice On Entry Level Long Range Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZakBradshaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You can't forget I'm only 18, so spending $300 on a scope that could only get me another inch of accuracy is not worth sacrificing getting another high quality gun. </div></div>

Sorry but it wasn't that long ago that I was your age and had the same attitude.

I ended up with too many guns, not enough ammo, and not enough shooting time.

I've since sold some of the guns, bought reloading equipment, and spent a lot more time shooting instead of putting more guns in the safe.

It worked out a lot better that way.
 
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