Need advice...

[joelinux]

I did a search, and didn't find anything, so if this has already been talked to death, or is in the wrong section, please let me know.

I'm very interested in learning how to shoot at extra extra long ranges. (2000+ yards).

At first, I was set on the M99 chambered in .416, (I live in Kommiefornia), but then I started reading up on the Desert Tech HTI, which evidently pulls a Swiss army routine and can shoot .416, .375CT, and others.

Some others were mocking the M99, saying it wasn't that accurate a rifle.

Coming into this cold (I've mainly shot pistols up to this point), I'd love some advice as to the arguments for and against each rifle, or, if there is another rifle that can chamber the .416 you would recommend.

 

[Bandit320]

I’m fairly new to this type of shooting, and I’m sure someone who has more experience will chime in soon, but those calibers seem like more then a handful to start out with. Even with a heavy we’ll made rifle the recoil will be something of a distraction.
I would think that you’d be better suited to start out with a smaller caliber that is not only easier to shoot, but far cheaper to shoot. I’d think one you could buy of the shelf ammo for so you don’t necessarily have to learn the tricks of precision reloading at the same time.
Probably the best thing you can do is go out to a range with some buddies and shoot some of their stuff and see how it performs for you and what you like. There is so much that will be easier to learn with out a big gun beating you up.

Mike

 

[acudaowner]

do you have a place to shoot 2000 yards ? i ask only cause i have at best access to only 1000 yard ranges that i may once in a blue moon be able to shoot at , 600 yards 3 or 4 days in the week , i would travel further out but it makes no scene for me to travel 8 hours only to get there fire 2 times after setting up , then have to return home and only shooting once a month . It makes even less sence for me to shell out all the money to get the gear , ammo , gun and what ever else i would need only to shoot only few times per month . One day maybe just not right now . It gets expensive enough to me just to shoot for fun 3 days a week to try and improve all the things i do wrong at 600 yards let alone 1000 yards with 308 win ammo which is relatively cheap in comparison to larger rounds . but as always if its something you want to do you should do it or at least try it . I would like to think you can do it . please take pics and post it sounds like fun .

 

[joelinux]

Hey Mike! Thanks for replying!

So, maybe it's just the engineer in me, but I'm pretty utilitarian when it comes to my firearms. I bought the one pistol after doing tons of research and getting advice online and from friends. So with my rifle purchase, I'm trying to do the same.

I'm trying to avoid getting a bunch of guns that I don't shoot, even if they are "stepping Stones" to my eventual endrifle. My goal is to get one rifle, and learn how to use it very well.

I've always been fascinated by the big bore anti-materiel rounds. I'd rather dive in the deep end, rather than working my way up.

 

[joelinux]

do you have a place to shoot 2000 yards ? Etc. Etc. Etc.

Hey acudaowner!

Not quite 2k, but 1 mile, yes. It's at California tactical academy in Piru, CA.

Only an hour and a half from where I live!

 

[IntoTransonic]

I would never suggest a jump from “Mainly shooting pistols” to a big bore rifle. Never! Sir, your asking for a load of issues, costly mistakes, potential unsafe actions, and a rifle that will 99% for sure be for sale in less than 90 days.

ELR is not a beginner facet of shooting precision rifles. While I wholeheartedly, support and welcome new shooters into the sport of ELR, it’s better suited as a graduation from some training, practice and familiarity prior to getting behind a big bore rifle. A 416, while it’s a great caliber, is NOT a beginner caliber/rifle. ..... irrespective of a manufacturer.

I wish you luck in your decision; I hope it is a wise and safe decision.

Chris Schmidt
Tennessee

 

[Bandit320]

Hey Mike! Thanks for replying!

So, maybe it's just the engineer in me, but I'm pretty utilitarian when it comes to my firearms. I bought the one pistol after doing tons of research and getting advice online and from friends. So with my rifle purchase, I'm trying to do the same.

I'm trying to avoid getting a bunch of guns that I don't shoot, even if they are "stepping Stones" to my eventual endrifle. My goal is to get one rifle, and learn how to use it very well.

I've always been fascinated by the big bore anti-materiel rounds. I'd rather dive in the deep end, rather than working my way up.

I understand completely, though I enjoy having a bunch of rifles laying around.

One of my other hobbies is telescopes and astronomy. A lot of people enjoy gringing there own mirrors for their reflecting telescopes. The old, and accurate, saying is that it’s faster to grind a 6” mirror then a 10” mirror, rather then to just grind a 10” mirror.

Precision shooting is the same. Learning skills on something like a 308 or 6.5 will make it much easier and faster to learn the hard charging rounds. Even when you get one of the big ones it’s still fun to go out range for a quickie session with your small rifle. Lastly, those smaller rounds will stretch out further than you’d think. On our club shoot last year the 6.5s and 243s were still going past 1500 yards

Mike

 

[Quickshot]

I shot with NorCal URSA before the range burned down last year. Go watch when they start shooting again.
But, until then; check out the 1K matches at Sacramento Valley. There are some awesome shooters there.

Edit: I just noticed you want to start with a boomer. It’s gonna be difficult and costly to master the fundamentals with a boomer. Most ranges won’t allow you to shoot anything bigger than a 338 Lapua. So, verify you have a place to shoot before spending 5-digits and $5 a round.

If you want instant gratification pick up a 6.5 Creedmore and attend a long range introduction session.
If you want to really challenge yourself; pick up a .223 or .308 and work your way out to 1K.

Cheers,

 

[joelinux]

Hey guys!
I appreciate the advice on getting up to my eventual endrifle, and I might borrow a friend's rifle at some point and follow that advice. I did shoot a lot of pistols before I bought mine, so it's not out of the question.

However I am most interested in the merits of the desert HTI vs. the M99, or some other .416 rifle I haven't considered.

This will be the ELR rifle I actually buy, so I'm trying to make an informed choice.

Thus the post.

 

[Quickshot]

Hey guys!
I appreciate the advice on getting up to my eventual endrifle, and I might borrow a friend's rifle at some point and follow that advice. I did shoot a lot of pistols before I bought mine, so it's not out of the question.

However I am most interested in the merits of the desert HTI vs. the M99, or some other .416 rifle I haven't considered.

This will be the ELR rifle I actually buy, so I'm trying to make an informed choice.

Thus the post.

The HTI is more flexible. Both HTI and Barrett rifle barrels are expensive to replace. A 416 Barrett barrel won’t be competitive past 2000y after ~1000 rounds or less. I was shooting about 100 rounds per match. So, plan to replace the barrel often.

Check out Cadex rifles. They use a common barreled action configuration and are barrel replacements are less costly.

I would choose HTI over Barrett. Just for the mechanics. But, you can’t go wrong with either.

Cheers,

 

[kthomas]

For one mile you don't need the burden of a giant cartridge like a .416 or .375CT. if anything, you are probably doing yourself a disservice by going that route.

Get a .300 PRC or .300NM, maybe a 33XC. A .416 or .375CT is pretty overkill to a mile. Recoil will be less, components will cost a lot less, reloading press and dies a lot less and more common, etc.

There's a big penalty for going with the large cartridges, and at a mile there isn't a huge payoff. So why handicap yourself?

Hell, even a lot of short action cartridges can be pretty effective to a mile and beyond.

 

[joelinux]

Kthomas: The idea is that I will eventually move to 2000/2500+ ranges.

I don't really like the idea of owning multiple guns for a single purpose. I bought one pistol, plan on purchasing one long range rifle, if it comes to it, one shotgun, and if I absolutely need to, one mid-range rifle.

I like the idea of large bore in ELR, because you don't have to worry about punch, the .416 is a big heavy bullet that has enough energy in impact to do whatever needs doing. Plus, it remains transonic for a further distance before it starts to tumble.

 

[Lkwoolsey]

Just curious, what rifles do you have experience shooting with? At what ranges have you shot said rifles?
I ask because the has been some good advice on this thread. I understand you want to shoot ELR, but you've blown off some hard earned knowledge so far. Get a short action, shoot it, get your fundamentals down. Then, sell it, and get a new rifle if you're that dead set on owning a single rifle. Just my two cents.

 

[joelinux]

Oh, I've shot a few sks, ar-15s, Ruger 10/22, etc.

My understanding from talking to the range instructors is that firing a rifle from standing and crouching is extremely different when a bipod/ELR scope is involved.

They were talking about the complex calculations involving increased role windspeed, humidity, respitory and pulmanory control, and even rotation of the earth can play.

I love complicated systems with multiple variables that need to be balanced.

I hate learning something, only to find out the goal posts will be moved as I learn more. I'd rather have all the problems hit me at once, and have control of the entirety of the solution. I refused to have training wheels on my bike growing up, drive a manual truck, built all of my computers, run Gentoo Linux because Ubuntu has sacrificed control for user-friendliness, etc.

Give me all the issues, and I'll tackle them at once.

I will likely shoot some ELR rifles before my purchase, but I want purchasing advice from you all.

 

[flyer]

A friend of mine has a .50 and I usually go to the range with him when he shoots it.

We alternate firing and working the target behind the berm.

He calls it a "crew served weapon" and that's not far off, nothing you do with it is easy or cheap.

If you want to get your feet wet at 1,000, 6.5 Creedmoor is cheap and easy to shoot all day long, even without an obnoxious muzzle brake.

Stepping up to 1,500 and the mile, something a bit more serious is a good idea, with a .300 Winchester Magnum being the common choice and .338 Lapua Magnum being one of the best that can be found relatively easily (but not cheap and requiring an obnoxious muzzle brake).

The next step is the big stuff and the less expensive guns are entry level models, usually not intended to be competitive in ELR stuff. If that is what you want to do, make sure the gun you buy is put together precisely enough to do it.

With that in mind, it's better to develop the basics of marksmanship on a rifle that isn't trying to reinforce bad habits or ravage your bank account.

Start small because mistakes there will be recoverable.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

If you want the satisfaction of a big boomer with the ability to reliably perform at 1760 - 2000 yards. I suggest the 338 Lapua as a sane option.

It's merits:
Factory ammo
Plenty of range and accuracy potential...
Not too hard on the shoulder
Easy to find components for
Easy to tune
Many different choices of factory, custom and semi custom rifles to choose from
Better resale if you choose to step up in a few years

 

[BoltBandit]

Oh, I've shot a few sks, ar-15s, Ruger 10/22, etc.

My understanding from talking to the range instructors is that firing a rifle from standing and crouching is extremely different when a bipod/ELR scope is involved.

They were talking about the complex calculations involving increased role windspeed, humidity, respitory and pulmanory control, and even rotation of the earth can play.

I love complicated systems with multiple variables that need to be balanced.

I hate learning something, only to find out the goal posts will be moved as I learn more. I'd rather have all the problems hit me at once, and have control of the entirety of the solution. I refused to have training wheels on my bike growing up, drive a manual truck, built all of my computers, run Gentoo Linux because Ubuntu has sacrificed control for user-friendliness, etc.

Give me all the issues, and I'll tackle them at once.

I will likely shoot some ELR rifles before my purchase, but I want purchasing advice from you all.

Not to beat a dead horse, but others are spot on that your trying to walk before you crawl. Actually, it's more like your trying to medal in Olympic hurdles before you learn to crawl.

Trust me when I tell you that all those complex calculations are still extremely complex at 1,000 yards. Shooters shoot thousands of rounds downrange every year working to master these skills at the 600, 800, and 1,000 yard range. Take for example these snipers that are landing these 2,000+ meter shots. That was they're profession and what they trained for constantly! And even by their own accounts, those shots were made due to being highly educated, highly skilled, perfect conditions, and a healthy dose of luck.

Anyway, to make a more practical point, if you're shooting a 6.5 Creedmoor, each round of knowledge is going to cost you approximately 1.35 per round. That .375 Chey-Tech..... $7.50 for each round of knowledge learned.

Anyway, good luck and sorry I can't be of any help to the actual question you're asking.

 

[jasent]

Better off having one built than a turn key ready rifle in those cartridges.
I’d recommend starting smaller but you seem to be hell bent on starting in the deep end.
At these ranges your not going to be happy with factory ammo so your also going to need to learn to reload.

You may have so manny issues and so little experience you won’t even be able to see or recognize the issues.


There is a reason you didn’t find the answer to your question in the ELR section. This is a “long range 101” type question

 

[Howland]

Hey Mike! Thanks for replying!

So, maybe it's just the engineer in me, but I'm pretty utilitarian when it comes to my firearms. I bought the one pistol after doing tons of research and getting advice online and from friends. So with my rifle purchase, I'm trying to do the same.

I'm trying to avoid getting a bunch of guns that I don't shoot, even if they are "stepping Stones" to my eventual endrifle. My goal is to get one rifle, and learn how to use it very well.

I've always been fascinated by the big bore anti-materiel rounds. I'd rather dive in the deep end, rather than working my way up.

Sorry I can't offer advice between the rifles you're considering, but I admire your ambition.

 

[Geno C.]

Better off having one built than a turn key ready rifle in those cartridges.
I’d recommend starting smaller but you seem to be hell bent on starting in the deep end.
At these ranges your not going to be happy with factory ammo so your also going to need to learn to reload.

You may have so manny issues and so little experience you won’t even be able to see or recognize the issues.

This hits on the right points.

However, to answer your question. I’d buy neither. The draw to the dt in my opinion is the ability to have a multi cal system. You stated you don’t want multiple calibers but a big one. I’ve seen and handled a few Barrett’s. They don’t impress me any. There’s not much special about them.

I’d recommend having a rifle built, the stock you like best then build around that.

 

[1moaoff]

Get a 6mm or 6.5 and learn. The transition to elr is not the same as pistol which can be more intuitive than 2k yds with a rifle.

 

[1moaoff]

And if you want turnkey with ammo there are VERY few options!!!! Your pistol purchase and budget is no comparison...

Hope you enjoy though... it is a blast to count down to impact.

 

[VaRandy]

I can tell you are set on going real big up front. If you have a lot of money, you can solve that mistake, If money comes tough, not so much, you obviously have no idea what is involved in ELR shooting. First thing, forget trying to look like Joe Military and get a custom built standard stock solution.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

The rifle is the easy part of the ELR spectrum; and actually a relatively cheap component in the complete ELR puzzle.
The support equipment is what can get complicated and more expensive than the rifle itself.

In your quest to basically "start out" your rifle shooting with a big boomer/ELR rifle.....

What reloading equipment do you have and/or are you looking at?
Do you have someone that can teach you the very very detailed and time intensive reloading practices to get ammunition with a 5fps +/- muzzle velocity deviations? Muzzle velocity error larger than that can make ELR shooting the most aggravating and frustrating thing you will ever attempt in your life.

What rangefinder do you have and/or are you looking at?
At the distances your are discussing.....a 20 feet distance error into your firing solution can determine whether you hit or miss the target (The distance error would of course be dependent on the actual target size).

What support equipment do you have and/or are looking at getting? That is what makes the difference of ELR being successful or an act of futility.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[joelinux]

Ok, ya'll are making me bust out the math here:

Assuming:
$4K for the M99
$2795 for the .338 Lapua Rifle

Getting 80% back from the sale of the Lapua once I make the jump

3000 rounds to get good on either rifle

$4.85 per .338 Lapua factory round
$8.6 per .416 factory round

1000 rounds to get good on the .416 once I make the transition

it's only about a 7.55% difference ($2K) than if I just stuck with the M99 in the first place.

(And yes, I will be getting instruction)

	M99	Christensen Arms
Cost of gun	$4,000.00	$2,795.00		Number of rounds to get good:	3000
Cost of ammo per round	$8.60	$4.85		Numbe of rounds to get good 2nd time around:	1000
				% made up on selling .338	80.00%
Cost after getting good:	$29,800.00	$27,709.00
	Percent Cost difference	7.55%

 

[joelinux]

So, after all that:

What base rifle, capable of firing the .416 round, would you all recommend? If I need to, I can mod it, but I'm looking for a good base rifle.

 

[pitdog85]

a fool and his money is easily parted

 

[flyer]

You aren't going to get back 80% on a rifle that has shot 3,000 rounds unless you rebarrel it properly.

If you can spare the time, I would block out 4-5 weekends, shoot both days, about 60 shots a day, so 480-600 rounds total with probably some small bore training in between weekends. If you aren't shooting well after that, another 2,400 rounds isn't going to do it.

You don't need a .338 for that either, the same 480-600 rounds in a 6.5 Creedmoor or .300 Winchester Magnum at 1,000-1,500 yards should get you ready for stepping up to shooting a big Boomer.

The learning period for the shooting aspect is a lot shorter than you think if you do it smartly and reinforce your learning every session/shot.

Reloading is an entirely different topic and it's much cheaper to learn that with cartridges that use common powders, standard rifle primers, $0.40 match bullets and $1.00 brass that will last a dozen or more reloads.

If you don't have solid ammo quality, you won't be able to learn the shooting side of things as easily (if at all because poor ammo would add a variable to your feedback loop).

Finally, if you want to be competitive, I'm not sure a factory Barrett is the right rifle for that. I think most of the winning ELR competitors use big custom actions with expertly chambered and gunsmithed barrels tailored specifically to the ammo they want to shoot.

If you're missing a piece you'll never get the big picture looking right.

 

[BoltBandit]

Here's an article on what the pros use in the "King of the 2 Mile" This may help give you an idea of the necessary equipment.

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2018/07/05/what-the-pros-use-king-2-miles-edition/

 

[jetmd]

Disclaimer: I do not recommend starting out with your course of action.

But if you wanted to start with a reasonably accurate ELR capable rifle turnkey I would
have you buy a Sako TRG42 in 338 L , Near base, Nightforce ATACR, etc and go shoot.

Best wishes.

 

[ScottYo308]

The M99 is a stout package, YES I have one, Yes Ive shot it competitively. We have many people do well with it at the Southwest ULR events. We also have people using the desert tech HTI (416 Barrett and 375 Cheytac) and SRS (with 338 LM and 37XC) doing very well. Also Custom builds too (BAT, Stiller etc...). The ammo from Barrett is okay, about the same level as the OE stuff from Cheytac IMHO. It will get you up and running but to really get the most out of it you do need to do all the work and reload.

As mentioned above the rifle is a small component whatever you get into, mastering that package is the ticket to getting on steel. Optics (with enough adjustment), chronograph, level, ballistic solvers (at 1500+ you really need them dialed) weather station, reading local wind (not just left to right) knowing your cold bore mapping, tuning your ammo to conditions, knowing your transonic flight characteristics, knowing your hot barrel and if it speeds up velocity and POI shifts. All of this is stuff you need to know, and has a HUGE impact at long distances. In many cases 5 shots is not enough to get walked in if you start off 20 MOA high for example, 338 lapua vs 416 Barrett is moot at that point.

You seem to have a good handle on the various packages, and your budget, get something you like and want to stick with for a while (1000 rounds ish ) master it and then you will have all the info you need for the next build.

 

[joelinux]

Here's an article on what the pros use in the "King of the 2 Mile" This may help give you an idea of the necessary equipment.

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2018/07/05/what-the-pros-use-king-2-miles-edition/

THANK YOU...this is the kind of information I'm looking for...

 

[joelinux]

The M99 is a stout package, YES I have one, Yes Ive shot it competitively. We have many people do well with it at the Southwest ULR events. We also have people using the desert tech HTI (416 Barrett and 375 Cheytac) and SRS (with 338 LM and 37XC) doing very well. Also Custom builds too (BAT, Stiller etc...). The ammo from Barrett is okay, about the same level as the OE stuff from Cheytac IMHO. It will get you up and running but to really get the most out of it you do need to do all the work and reload.

As mentioned above the rifle is a small component whatever you get into, mastering that package is the ticket to getting on steel. Optics (with enough adjustment), chronograph, level, ballistic solvers (at 1500+ you really need them dialed) weather station, reading local wind (not just left to right) knowing your cold bore mapping, tuning your ammo to conditions, knowing your transonic flight characteristics, knowing your hot barrel and if it speeds up velocity and POI shifts. All of this is stuff you need to know, and has a HUGE impact at long distances. In many cases 5 shots is not enough to get walked in if you start off 20 MOA high for example, 338 lapua vs 416 Barrett is moot at that point.

You seem to have a good handle on the various packages, and your budget, get something you like and want to stick with for a while (1000 rounds ish ) master it and then you will have all the info you need for the next build.

Thank you for this information! This is the kind of info I've been looking for.

I know that it isn't just the rifle, but I think it lays the foundation.

I can get into arguments about support equipment in another thread. :-D I think of the rifle as the centerpiece of the equipment and skills...

 

[flyer]

Now you can see what they use but how and why is something you will need to learn.

There is still a lot of transferrable skill that you can learn cheaper and faster with a rifle that isn't going to beat you up.

The truth is that a big boomer ELR round is going to limit the amount you can practice and cause flinches that will mess with you.

Firing the big guns is an exercise in trying to ignore the fact that it's going to hurt you. That is a very hard way to learn anything. If you don't have a base of rifle shooting experience you are going to be spinning your wheels more than learning.

 

[Bender]

Come on, let him blow $30k on a set up.

 

[joelinux]

Come on, let him blow $30k on a set up.

Eh...I'd rather buy, then resell on something I think I might use forever than buy and sell something I know i will never touch once I graduate.

The truth is that a big boomer ELR round is going to limit the amount you can practice and cause flinches that will mess with you.

See, I'd rather learn to get over that now than get REAL good on a rifle I don't have to worry about that, then have to re-learn how to fire to accommodate the flinch. That is the exact kind of thing I want to avoid by jumping in with both feet.

On a side note, a friend just asked me this, and it's just so very very very wrong, I thought you all might laugh:

"Rather than have a full size human target at 50 yards, why don't you have an infant target at 10? Or a preemie at 5?"

 

[Vargmat]

Eh...I'd rather buy, then resell on something I think I might use forever than buy and sell something I know i will never touch once I graduate.



See, I'd rather learn to get over that now than get REAL good on a rifle I don't have to worry about that, then have to re-learn how to fire to accommodate the flinch. That is the exact kind of thing I want to avoid by jumping in with both feet.

On a side note, a friend just asked me this, and it's just so very very very wrong, I thought you all might laugh:

"Rather than have a full size human target at 50 yards, why don't you have an infant target at 10? Or a preemie at 5?"

I have yet to hear any experienced shooter stating that they graduated from anything shooting related. Most of the really good shooters I know, still find challenges in regular long range shooting (max 1500 meters) with calibers in the 6,5-338 range. Even after +20 years of shooting competitions.

But then again, what do I know?

 

[joelinux]

I have yet to hear any experienced shooter stating that they graduated from anything shooting related. Most of the really good shooters I know, still find challenges in regular long range shooting (max 1500 meters) with calibers in the 6,5-338 range. Even after +20 years of shooting competitions.

But then again, what do I know?

I know me, and I know my approach to things.

Once I know that something is harder, I'll only work on the harder thing, and leave the easier stuff alone. I hate to have stuff "handled" for me unless there is just no way around it.

That will follow me in this endeavor. Once I start shooting the large-bore rifle at crazy-far distances, 1500 meters will no longer interest me. It'll feel like I'm taking it easy on myself.

 

[TxWelder35]

Man I would love to be able to go out tomorrow and make hits on steel at 2k. However, I know that no matter what rifle you put in my hands I have no where near the knowledge or skill necessary to do so.

You are asking what golf clubs the pros use because you are signing up for the world tour next year. With only putt putt experience level.

You are asking what shape to make your rocket so it gets to the moon when all you've done is launch bottle rockets.

If you want to start this journey and get there the fastest and have the nicest equipment since it seems budget is no concern here, heres what I would do.

Start with a Custom Short action Rifle. 6.5 Creedmoor will you to 1k no sweat. Good factory Ammo available.

Rifle cost- $3000-4000
Optics-S&B scope $4000 (you can reuse this on ELR Rifle
Ammo- 1k rounds factory Ammo $1500


After shooting 1k rounds you will be starting to get ready to dip your feet into reloading. Good new there is a TON of reloading data out there for 6.5cm and plenty of people to help you along the way.

Go shoot 1k rounds of reloads and see where you are at.

So for the price of 2000 rounds of 416 or 375 you have a top of the line custom rifle, killer optics, and 2k rounds of good fundamentals and knowledge.

It's also much easier to go shoot 200 rounds in one day of 6.5 than it is 416.

 

[TxWelder35]

Also in that first 2k rounds you aren't learning anything with the 416 that you aren't with a 6.5cm

 

[Vargmat]

I know me, and I know my approach to things.

Once I know that something is harder, I'll only work on the harder thing, and leave the easier stuff alone. I hate to have stuff "handled" for me unless there is just no way around it.

That will follow me in this endeavor. Once I start shooting the large-bore rifle at crazy-far distances, 1500 meters will no longer interest me. It'll feel like I'm taking it easy on myself.

I kind of understand your perspective on this, it seems like it boils down to; "personal knowledge is better than others experience" and in some areas I do the same thing. But as a shooter I know that you are making this VERY hard for yourself. And it seems to me and many of the people writing here, that you are setting yourself up for an expensive lesson in frustration. But this has allready been stated, and I wish you luck in any case.

 

[Tchitcherine]

If you think <= 1500 is "taking it easy" on yourself, think again. Working at those ranges, you can accomplish a lot towards establishing a solid foundation of skills and knowledge that ultimately will help you at 2000 and beyond. Set your sights high, chase your dream. But build that foundation.

 

[Bender]

I know me, and I know my approach to things.

Once I know that something is harder, I'll only work on the harder thing, and leave the easier stuff alone. I hate to have stuff "handled" for me unless there is just no way around it.

That will follow me in this endeavor. Once I start shooting the large-bore rifle at crazy-far distances, 1500 meters will no longer interest me. It'll feel like I'm taking it easy on myself.

Hubris.

You don’t even know what you don’t know.

I’m going to guess you are under the age of 35.

Good luck.

 

[brianf]

i think i read the whole thread;

im not going to tell you dont buy it, we all have our wants for our own reasons (i had a 50 bmg for a few years)

everyone is giving the same advice which is telling you:

2k is really hard

416 is $ to shoot

you can get almost the same performance from cheaper lesser rounds

416 is a bitch to carry and clean (youd be surprised how much more cleaning chems and materials those large bores take)

the utmost important thing to do is get some training, and wind reading lessons

if you cant hit with a 308/6mm/6.5 what ever at 1000, you will never even get in the vicinity of a 8' x 8' target at 2000

alot of guys say they shoot at 1 mile or 2k, minute of artillery accuracy is not ELR

it is fun and you might get a hit, but your not doing yourself a service

being a engineer means limiting and understanding variables

if the device fails but performs to its design criteria its a success

exterior ballistics is just math but the inputs are 50% art

if you want a 416 or 375 at the end of the day get the DTA, buy the big bore stuff to shoot (and have fun, horsepower is fun sometimes) but get another caliber conversion as well

make sure it works, call a school, put on your 6.5 cm barrel and learn.

most if not all schools do not even want something bigger than a 308 because there is so much to focus on, besides serious recoil management

just a opinion but....

 

[Bender]

Dunning-Kruger Effect: The Smarter You Feel, the Dumber You Are | Dean Yeong

Dunning-Kruger Effect stated that less competent people are more confident. In this post, I share how to guard ourselves against this mental bias. First, you...

deanyeong.com

 

[BoltBandit]

If you are dead set on getting a big bore, then it is what it is, despite the fact that not one person here, all of whom have experience in long range to some degree or another, are telling you it’s a horrible idea. (And I thought engineers were supposed to be pragmatic and practical ?)

Anyway, at the very least, please do yourself this one favor. Go to a range and take a precision rifle class and rent their equipment. Get a feel for the challenges ahead when shooting a more standard round (.308, 6.5CM, .300WM). If you’ve done that and still feel that a big bore (or supergun as they call them at my range) is for you, then by all means, go get it. At least the members here will feel better that you’ve made a somewhat informed decision. It’s no skin off any of our backs, but it’s a sport we all love and want to see grow. The last thing we all want to see is someone with your passion and desire to get into the sport, only leave shortly after because they went big and sadly, ultimately went home.

 

[THEIS]

I know me, and I know my approach to things.

Once I know that something is harder, I'll only work on the harder thing, and leave the easier stuff alone. I hate to have stuff "handled" for me unless there is just no way around it.

That will follow me in this endeavor. Once I start shooting the large-bore rifle at crazy-far distances, 1500 meters will no longer interest me. It'll feel like I'm taking it easy on myself.

Hi,

Well you have everything decided and wrapped up then. Nobody else needs to offer you any advice; as it is not like you are going to take in anyways.

If you would only realize some of the guys in this thread giving you advice have been actually shooting ELR for decades.

Good Luck,

Theis

 

[Bradu]

Eh...I'd rather buy, then resell on something I think I might use forever than buy and sell something I know i will never touch once I graduate.



See, I'd rather learn to get over that now than get REAL good on a rifle I don't have to worry about that, then have to re-learn how to fire to accommodate the flinch. That is the exact kind of thing I want to avoid by jumping in with both feet.

On a side note, a friend just asked me this, and it's just so very very very wrong, I thought you all might laugh:

"Rather than have a full size human target at 50 yards, why don't you have an infant target at 10? Or a preemie at 5?"

You will have fun if you start flinching. It's better to learn the fundamentals and apply them to a bigger rifle. As others said, you have your mind made up and won't listen anyways so best of luck.

 

[ScottYo308]

Okay, let me go a slightly different way on the advise. If you want a rifle that will win King of 2 Miles next year then, you need a custom, cant get there with something off the shelf.

The components take some lead time, order now, get a...

Bat EX single shot action with a Cheytac bolt face
Bartlein 1:7 .375 2" x 38 barrel, get 2 or 3 when you place the order
McMillan Beast stock
Jewel rem 700 bench-rest trigger
March Genesis scope
SEB Joypod or Phoenix Customs Bipod
Get the whole package, Kestral, Garmin from Applied Ballistics

Call Peterson Brass, tell them you NEED the long Cheytac wildcat / basic brass, get them to do a run of 5k pieces.

Now you need a gunsmith and a .375 wildcat

Call...
Mitchell Fitzpatrick @ AB Weapons division
Kirby Allen @ apsrifles
Robert Vestal @ Vestal Custom Rifles

these are world class gunsmiths and they are active online, tell them you want to dominate ELR, you need a hot .375 cheytac based wildcat build, all the dies load info etc... and you ordered the above, please please please take my money and can I get in your work queue.

 

[b2lee]

Okay, let me go a slightly different way on the advise. If you want a rifle that will win King of 2 Miles next year then, you need a custom, cant get there with something off the shelf.

The components take some lead time, order now, get a...

Bat EX single shot action with a Cheytac bolt face
Bartlein 1:7 .375 2" x 38 barrel, get 2 or 3 when you place the order
McMillan Beast stock
Jewel rem 700 bench-rest trigger
March Genesis scope
SEB Joypod or Phoenix Customs Bipod
Get the whole package, Kestral, Garmin from Applied Ballistics

Call Peterson Brass, tell them you NEED the long Cheytac wildcat / basic brass, get them to do a run of 5k pieces.

Now you need a gunsmith and a .375 wildcat

Call...
Mitchell Fitzpatrick @ AB Weapons division
Kirby Allen @ apsrifles
Robert Vestal @ Vestal Custom Rifles

these are world class gunsmiths and they are active online, tell them you want to dominate ELR, you need a hot .375 cheytac based wildcat build, all the dies load info etc... and you ordered the above, please please please take my money and can I get in your work queue.

I've heard worse ways to spend $20k