Hunting & Fishing Need Bow Advice

Jig Stick

Jig Stick

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 27, 2010
1,439
5
44
Pittsburgh PA
#1
So I just purchased my first bow today, a Hoyt CRX 32 in 70lb. I love the bow. I had the chance to shoot it, as well as a Bowtech Destroyer 340 side by side, and the Hoyt worked out better. But now I need to buy a sight, quiver, rest, release, etc. Anybody have any advice for me? Im leaning towards a single post HHA sight, QAD fall away rest, Kwikee quiver, and True Fire release. I have extremely limited experience with this stuff so any guidance would be great. Thanks.
 
#2
Re: Need Bow Advice

I would say anything that is a fully captive release is best. I'm not a whisper bisket fan since it eats up fletchings in faster shooting bows. Beware of the plastic rests!!! If you hunt in the winter in really cold areas plastic gets brittle, and if the rest breaks as did one of my friends rests (twice and only after firing 3 arrows, can't remember the brand) your hosed for that day or possibly weekend of hunting. I'm using a QAD drop away fully captive rest which has worked flawlessly for me. I have a short range in my basement so I shoot it three to four time a week firing about 1-2 dozen arrows each time.
For sights I have a True glow sight on there which works just fine for me.
For the mechanical release I use a Q-shot. I like the little Q-shot because it isn't one of the big fixed releases. It has almost like a 550 cord type string that gives you some nice adjustability with placement of the release and when not shooting or in the cold it allows you to stick your hands in your pockets easier to warm them up. Its not in the way as much as some other releases which is really nice.
For quiver, I went with whatever felt the lightest and cheapest since it doesn't effect performance imo.
 
#3
Re: Need Bow Advice

I currently use the QAD rest and have had no problems with it hunting in michigan (it gets cold) and i really like it with the technology it has (especially how it doesnt drop if you have to let down). I am a big fan of the HHA bowsight aswell. I used to use a multi pin sight until i missed a couple deer due to pin confusion (laugh at me, it will happen) so i then switched to a single pin. I was worried about "what if" i have to adjust as the deer comes in but it isnt a problem. I would not recommend the sight though if you are shooting a slower setup and have to adjust it every 10 yards. I am currently shooting a mathews DXT 70lb 29.5 draw with High Country Speed Pro Max Arrows at 345fps so i have my HHA set as the first mark is 0-30 yards which covers 95% of my shots. And if the deer is farther than that then it needs to be still for me to shoot so adjusting the pin is easy.But all in all the QAD rest is Awesome and the HHA sight is bright and precise and the best single pin on the market, Except maybe trijicon accupin but we will see.
 
#4
Re: Need Bow Advice

Jig, Great choices! I have the same setup you're considering, and I've been really happy. If I had to set up a new bow I wouldn't change a thing. The QAD functions flawlessly, and I really like a single-post sight. Some don't like having to possibly adjust the sight with game nearby, but I don't see it as an issue. With the speed of today's bows you can set it at 20yds and be pretty good out to about 40...with a little more drop, of course, but manageable. Anything beyond that and getting busted while adjusting your sight becomes less likely.

Also, I was amazed at the accuracy of the sighting tape. I followed the instructions for sighting in, chose the right tape, and was within an inch at 60 yds!
 
#5
Re: Need Bow Advice

I use the QAD rest, Spot Hogg wrapped Hunter Hogg It sight and T.R.U Ball Pro Diamond release. I've used a lot of different equipment over the years but this is the one I find myself to be the most comfortable with.
 
#7
Re: Need Bow Advice

For a beginner, no need to get fancy. Get yourself a whisker biscuit, 5 pin sight, whatever wrist style release feels best for you, and a good solid 2 peice quiver.

Biscuits are tougher on vanes, true. But if you shoot 2" Blazers, which most do, you'll have no problems whatsoever. I re fletched all my arrows with 4" AAE Plastifletch vanes last year about this time, and I haven't had any problems with them yet. So take that for what it's worth. Also, I will admit I'm not up to date on the new dropaways of recent years. But I've had 3 in the past and they were a headache. Vane clearence problems, timing problems, you name it. I just don't trust them, switched to a biscuit, and have been very happy with my decision.

For a sight, for the money, you can't go wrong with a cheaper 5 pin Tru Glo. If you wan't something a little fancier, Spott Hogg isn't bad. It allows for quick and easy microadjustment, where as the Tru Glo don't. But that's about the only difference, other than price. I could not fanthom using a 1 pin sight where you have to adjust for drop. Seriously, that is the LAST thing you want to be fucking around with at time of shot. And using 1 pin from 20-40yds will bite you in your ass someday. "Pretty good" is not good enough IMO.
 
#8
Re: Need Bow Advice

I've got a Mathews Reezen 7.0 with the QAD Quality Archery Designs pro series Ultra Rest HD, full capture drop away rest. It gets out of the way fast and quietly, one very cool part about it is that it will stay cocked when you let down slow if you decide not to shoot, not many do that. The arrow does not bounce around and it cannot fall off of the rest. It also comes with pre cut mole skin to make the arrow capture area silent. It is quiet on the draw also, most are not. I like it better than the two Trophy Taker drop aways I've had but the full capture version of those is nice. I don't care for the Mathews convertible drop away. Go with the QAD pro series, trust me. Scott makes good releases, so do a lot of other companies. Buy a well known higher end release, nothing too cheap.



http://www.qadinc.com/shop/product_info....da1c831176e3f2e

For the sight take a good look at the new Vital Gear adjustable Single pin (you can add pins also). Instead of tape to mark your yardages it has movable fiber optic dots, very bright single pin and yardage markers. I have had others, none were as bright and easy to see your yardage markers.



http://www.vitalgear.net/



I have one like this but in Mathews Lost camo. Its an awesome sight. I started with the single pin adjustable now I have a 20,30 and 40 yard pin (for hunting) without moving the slide. You can get up to 5 pins for this sight but really do not need that many. Then if I want I have the fiber optic yardage pins on the slide and can adjust those for as far as 80 yards (while target shooting)

I will vouch for the Vital Gear sight and the QAD HD Ultra Rest, you will not be dissapointed. My brother, my best friend and I have tried a lot of junk and a lot of expensive junk and I recommended some of our favorites. They are not cheap though just like most of the good stuff.


Spot-hogg makes good ones too,have a friend who really likes his 7 pin sight, I just don't like that much clutter.



http://www.spot-hogg.com/newfor2011.html

Whatever you do it will be good practice that makes you better but you won't want to break your bow because of fletching clearance issues and a bad sight if you try these things.

I wouldn't buy a $400-900 bow and put a $50 sight on it with plastic pins. Just my $.02... for free
 
#9
Re: Need Bow Advice

Save yourself the trouble of buying two or three low end sights that are not bright and made of a lot of plastic. You will only end up breaking down and buying something of quality, that or you will give up, be frustrated or sell your bow. Get the brightest pins possible, usually something with long fiber optic and wrapped around the pin guard, make sure it has a built in level also.

Oh, when I was using the Vital gear single, adjustable pin I could set it at thirty yards and use it from 5 feet to 40 yards ( with my old PSE X force) by holding no more than a few inches above or below the target. 29 & 1/2" draw and Maxima 350's with 100gr tips). Todays best bows are fast as shit. No doubt that you could kill (whitetail) out to 50 yards with a lot of practice and a fast quiet bow with only two or three pins (as long as they did not see or smell you first of course)
 
#10
Re: Need Bow Advice

Also find a good quiver whether it is detachable or a two piece that sits tight to your bow. Believe me it's not cool to have a heavy quiver hanging way off the side, if your sight has a level and your quiver sits way off of the bow you will see what I'm saying. Make every shot count, bad practice will screw you up.
 
#12
Re: Need Bow Advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fisky</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And using 1 pin from 20-40yds will bite you in your ass someday. "Pretty good" is not good enough IMO. </div></div> Yeah, terrible advice that I just gave. Sorry, I missed the part about the OP not having much experience. Don't attempt the above unless you've practiced it...a lot. And thinking back, a 25 yd pin is what I've set, not a 20. That being said I've never needed to take a shot in anger at 40 with a 25 yd pin, only practiced it.
 
#13
Re: Need Bow Advice

If you plan on hunting with it, no matter what you put on it, practice <span style="font-weight: bold">a lot</span> before you shoot at anything with a pulse.

One drill that helped us a lot was putting a ladder stand up in the yard, one with a small platform. We would get in it, standing and facing the tree while the other guy would place the deer target at any random range. We would try to make it as realistic as possible, sometimes brush and small limbs would be covering part of the vitals. Once the target was set and the other was clear you would turn around, with a set time to judge the distance or range it and make the shot. It will get you a lot better at judging distance both with a rangfinder and without. Sometimes you turn around and its at 46 yds, sometimes 5yds.

If you are ever shooting with a group of people from the ground, make different areas of the target worth points and keep track of the points scored on paper. After everyone has made their shot, the one with the worst shot has to retrieve everyones arrows. This helps because you really concentrate on every shot and nerves tend to kick in when several of your buddies are there and talking s..t and no one wants to be the guy retrieving all of the arrows.

Its ok to shoot a lot of arrows when you do it like this, its not like shooting a ton by yourself where its one after the other. If you shoot too many, too fast you will get tired and you can tear muscles and have bad form. When shooting by myself, when I would have the bow fairly dialed in, I like to shoot one single arrow at the target and retrieve it, concentrating on not canting the bow and good follow through.

<span style="font-weight: bold">This is just advise that worked for me and some friends over the years, I'm not claiming this is the "only way to go" I'm just trying to help. I definitely know more about bows than I do guns and I feel like for once on this site I can offer a little help.</span>
 
#14
Re: Need Bow Advice

Another thing that really helped me was using a single vertical, then single horizontal line of electric tape on cardboard backing during the sight in. To get my windage left/right dialed in I would start at ten yards. Put a one foot long strip of electric tape running <span style="font-weight: bold">vertical</span> down the target from 12 to 6 o clock. Shoot a three shot, well aimed group. If they average being off to the left, adjust left. Always follow your shot, if they hit left then move the sight box or pin to the left. Once you have it real close at ten yards you can back out to 20 and so on, don't worry too much about adjusting all of your pins for different yardages until later, this is just for left/right. That is why you have a one foot long strip of tape, we're only worried about left/right. Get that dialed as far back as you are comfortable shooting. Now you can dial in your different pins using one piece of tape running <span style="font-weight: bold">horizontally</span> 6 to 9 o clock. If you go with three pins and then dial it in at what ranges you prefer. once you have it like you want it you can shoot at dots or vital areas or whatever. If you will be hunting with a rangefinder then set your pins up according to your rf and not your buddies.

If you start dropping your arm, have no follow through or start quivering while aiming than its time for a break. You will be using some muscles that rarely get used so don't over do it.
 
#15
Re: Need Bow Advice

QAD rest is good!

I shoot FOB's on my arrows so I need it.

Im also a fan of the whisker/whisper biscuit, if you uses fletched arrows and have good form.

Cant go wrong with the Hoyts bows imo they are great.

Im a big fan of their Carbon matrix
 
#16
Re: Need Bow Advice

Spot hogg sights
limbdriver rest for fallaway rests
britesite 3d hunter rest for a fixed rest
alpine softloc quiver

I'm picky about releases. I use the same one I used in competition which is a carter ember. Carter's aren't cheap at around 150.00 and up, but they are what I settled on after shooting a whole bunch of releases. When I hunt I always have a back up. Sucks to drop one out of the tree stand and have to go down and get it

If you have access to a bow shop, see if they'll let you shoot a few different style releases and see what you like.

If you limit your shots to 20 yards or so, one pin will do fine. But if you're going to shoot any further it would be best to get a multiple pin.

I'm partial to fixed rests. I have shot alot of fall away rests in my search for the perfect rest, and I've had two failures in the field. Not bad for 10 years shooting, but two failures when you needed them to work isn't good enough. Moving parts are liable to well...break. Fixed rests can break to, but less moving parts are alwaysa plus for me.

my .02
 
#17
Re: Need Bow Advice

+1 on the backup release in your pack. Nothing like a long hike or mountain bike ride to your favorite stand on opening day only to find that you left your release in the truck

Frogman, I know you might be tired of trying them but if you get a chance try the QD ultra rest HD. If it ever did malfunction it can still operate as a fixed rest. I've never had it fail and its nice that the arrow cannot fall off of the rest but I do get your point about more to tear up. It never gets too cold here though. I imagine you deal with temps up there that will lock up plenty of gear.
 
#18
Re: Need Bow Advice

Holy crap! Thanks for all the feed back guys. There are so many aftermarket accessories for bows that it is very hard to wade through all of it when you have no idea what you are looking for. The Hoyt CRX 32 felt like an all around better bow to me compared to the Bowtech Destroyer. The Hoyt felt much smoother on the draw and was much much quieter. Everytime I shot the Destroyer there was a distinctive "Whack" sound from the string, and some vibration in my hand. I noticed neither of these with the Hoyt. The Hoyt only has 75% let off, and the Bowtech had 80%. I couldnt tell the difference.

I keep going back and forth between a single pin vs multipin sight. I find the multi-pins to clutter up the sight picture, and worry about pin confusion at the time of the shot. I will be using my bow to hunt mostly turkey, and maybe fall PA whitetail.

Are string silencers really required? This Hoyt is really quiet already. And how do I determine what size peep sight matches my main sight? The guy at the proshop mentioned that your peep sight size should be coordinated with the diameter of your main sight, so that your main sight isnt "swimming" all over when looking through the peep sight?
 
#19
Re: Need Bow Advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jig Stick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Holy crap! Thanks for all the feed back guys. There are so many aftermarket accessories for bows that it is very hard to wade through all of it when you have no idea what you are looking for. The Hoyt CRX 32 felt like an all around better bow to me compared to the Bowtech Destroyer. The Hoyt felt much smoother on the draw and was much much quieter. Everytime I shot the Destroyer there was a distinctive "Whack" sound from the string, and some vibration in my hand. I noticed neither of these with the Hoyt. The Hoyt only has 75% let off, and the Bowtech had 80%. I couldnt tell the difference.

I keep going back and forth between a single pin vs multipin sight. I find the multi-pins to clutter up the sight picture, and worry about pin confusion at the time of the shot. I will be using my bow to hunt mostly turkey, and maybe fall PA whitetail.

Are string silencers really required? This Hoyt is really quiet already. And how do I determine what size peep sight matches my main sight? The guy at the proshop mentioned that your peep sight size should be coordinated with the diameter of your main sight, so that your main sight isnt "swimming" all over when looking through the peep sight? </div></div>

You'll have to experiment a little to find the right peep. I use a super peep. It has multiple apetures to pick from so you can use the right one for your needs. Simply screw in the one that you want and presto. There's your peep. A little more expensive but better versatility all around. You want a peep size that will line up with the outside housing of your front sight. It's just one more anchor point to ensure you have proper head position. Think of it as taking the parrallax out of a scope.

I don't use string silencers any more. With the technology in the last decade, I don't think they quiet down the bow noise that much more. They just add more weight to the string and slow it down. I've also had them go flying off my bow string before. Just not that necessary IMO.

All in all, you will have a better accuracy potential with a multipin sight. If you will ever plan on shooting longer distances beyond 40 yards or so, having that multipin is really the way to go. With a smoking fast rig, using one pin all the way to 30 yards MIGHT be possible, but your accuracy potential gets smaller. It really isn't that distracting. Each pin is color coded, and when you get down to the discipline of actual archery, you shouldn't be looking at your pin all that much anyway. It's more of a reference point. Your eyes should be totally focused on the target, not the pin.

yes, snow and ice aren't really friendly to fall away rests I'm not opposed to them. I think they have their merits for sure. But I found tuning my bow to much easier with a very forgiving fixed rest like the "tuner rest". It's the same rest I use for competition with a hunting head fixture. http://www.britesite.us/shop/viewitem.php?groupid=5&productid=22

I've never had a arrow fall off on the draw, or had any problems wtih fletch clearance even wtih 2" blazers or Quickspins. It's definitely my favorite rest.

I wouldn't worry about the let off...I actually use 65% let off with a very very small valley. If you creep at all, you're pretty much toast. But I get a much cleaner and consistent release with 65% let off...has to do with the balnce of your body between your holding weight with the drawing hand and the weight of the bow.

Jig Stick, After you've done some practicing and you get your form down, You might want to consider tuning your arrows and broadheads along with your bow to get the optimum performance and forgiveness out of your system. Send me a PM and I'll gladly walk you through the process. It's in depth but I think the pay off is worth knowing that your broadheads are going to impact where they're aiming and not miss your intended target.


 
#20
Re: Need Bow Advice

Sounds like you're getting some great advice. Here's a training technique that I like to use. If you aren't practicing from a chair or stand, try standing with your feet together. It affords you less balance and simulates field conditions where you might not have the perfect base. That way you're used to the sights moving around a little more and are more comfortable when it happens in the field. Just remember that it's easy to start punching the trigger when your pin is floating around, and that is something you definitely do NOT want to become habit.
 
#21
Re: Need Bow Advice

Actualy I wouldn't mind hearing that also.
Anyway you could post that up?

I run a multi pin sight. I praticed a lot before I went hunting!!!!! I ran various yardages out to about 40 yards to get a good feel for the bow and set my sights.
Practice is key and taking the time before releasing the arrow to check to make sure your not screwing up!

A friend that I went bow hunting with (my first time bow hunting) fired 6 arrows off and never got a deer! I fired 1 and brought some food home. Patients, and just like shooting, fundamentals.

Just my .02
 
#22
Re: Need Bow Advice

Personally I'm a fan of the following:
Rest: Ripcord
Sight: Xtreme Archery
Release: TruBall Super Hornet (note on releases some offer adjustable triggers, some are a thumb release. As was mentioned I prefer the wrist style).
.
Something else that's good for practice is to look in your paper or area clubs for 3d shoots or talk to the archery shop. If you hook up with some friends or make new ones its a fun way to spend a morning. Also good for helping judge distance and targeting vitals from various angles.
.
Last but not least for A LOT of stick slinger info check out:
www.archerytalk.com
.
Its like the hide version of archery
 
#23
Re: Need Bow Advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ghogs Nightmare</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Last but not least for A LOT of stick slinger info check out:
www.archerytalk.com
.
Its like the hide version of archery </div></div>
+1. Check out the thread about funny, weird and unexplained things that have happened to guys while hunting. Very entertaining. I'll try to find a link.
 
#25
Re: Need Bow Advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Frogman77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Jig Stick, After you've done some practicing and you get your form down, You might want to consider tuning your arrows and broadheads along with your bow to get the optimum performance and forgiveness out of your system. Send me a PM and I'll gladly walk you through the process. It's in depth but I think the pay off is worth knowing that your broadheads are going to impact where they're aiming and not miss your intended target.


</div></div>

Good idea ^ especially needed with the bigger broadheads that some use for turkey hunting. I have a friend who has killed quite a few and uses the 2" Rage heads for turkey, they fly pretty true and cut big. Try not to skimp on arrows either, the better your equipment is the easier and faster you will get better.

Find the best bow technician in your area and any time you need work done to your bow, make sure you get your it in well before hunting season and things get busy. The busier the guy who really knows what he's doing is, the faster he is to hand your bow to the "help" which sometimes can go pretty bad.

I like a peep sight that is just slightly bigger than the round sight body= more light early and late for hunting. Its not a bad idea to start slightly smaller than that though and move up to a slightly bigger peep down the road. If you get too big you can lose accuracy.

Sorry if we are making it sound overly complicated, once you have a good setup it is really fun. Just trying to help you avoid a few things I wish I had not tried. I wish I had more advice when I first started, it would have saved me a lot of $ avoiding the trial and error.
 
#27
Re: Need Bow Advice

I know the hide member " landtech308 " is really into bow shooting, I'll let him know about this thread. I take it, he's a heavy hitter in the bow shooting world.
I like bows and hunt with them, but I am not on his level.
.....SmokeRolls
 
#28
Re: Need Bow Advice

technology certainly has broadened the sport to the masses, unfortunately technology has also provided many of todays "archers" a way around learning many of the fundamentals of what it really takes to shoot a basic bow well (minus the mechanical release, high letoff, eccentric cams, drop away rests, etc.)

whatever alien technology you put on it, take the time to realize what that technology is doing for you.

there was a time it took longer than a few weeks to get proficient with a bow - i guess i'm just getting older and grumpier - the times they are a changing - nowadays it doesn't seem such a "feat" to tagout using archery gear.
 
#29
Re: Need Bow Advice

TP,

I'm with you on that. While it's still definitely easier to get efficient with a bow now than it used to be. Without proper form or fundamentals things can go to hell really fast.

Pie plate accuracy doesn't cut it for me. Even at 20 yards a 10" pie plate may or may not make a clean kill. Throw in adrenaline and the environmentals and you just might have a wounded animal.

All the great gear in the world won't make up for proper form and consistency.

Take the time to learn your release and spend a lot of time shooting the blank bale. (shoot a target with your eyes closed about 2 yards away) Same principle as dry firing. You're building muscle memory so you don't have to worry about what your body is doing and you can focus on the target and the target only.

For your reading pleasure, here's an older post on tuning your arrows/bow. Some of it may not apply to binary cams, but the principles still apply:

Broadhead tuning is pretty involved. Most of it involves not just tuning the bow, but tuning the arrows to the bow.

I've been competing and hunting with a bow for several years and I can group any just about any broadhead with my field tips out to 60 yards.

This is my method for tuning: Warning, it gets involved...First things first, make sure you're anchoring the same, and holding your bow hand, shoulder grip everything must be the same way exactly the same every time you shoot. Otherwise you'll just end up pulling your hair out. Small things like different pressure on the bow hand will alter your impact greatly. If your form isn't solid wait until it's better until you move forward with this. You should be able to know whether or not you made a good shot or not. IF you can't tell the difference than the following will probably be pointless

1. Make sure the arrow selected is properly spined with the proper tip. Generally 100gr to 125 gr will work just fine. I prefer 125 because it gives a better Front of Center percentage. This is important for broadhead steering. Cut the arrow to length where it will spine correctly for your draw weight and poundage. you can find this using an arrow program like Archers advantage or ontarget2. both are very good, ontarget is cheaper.

also squaring the ends of your arrows and inserts is important. If you spin your broadheads on a table it should not wobble. if it does you need to either square the ends of the shaft or try a different broadhead.

2. MAke sure you're not getting any fletch contact when your shooting. Shoot into a bale 5 yards away, spray yoru fletching with foot powder and see if you're getting any contact anywhere.

3. Find your dynamic centershot: the best way to do this is called walkback tuning. (Get all your pins lined up in a straight line on your sight and make all your adjustments moving the whole cage) start at 10yards and get your zero dead on. move back to 20 shoot another group. walk back to 30, 40, 60..as far as you can shoot accurately. DO NOT MAKE ANY ADJUSTMENTS TO YOUR SIGHT AS YOU WALK BACK. If your shots are drifting to the right as you get further from your target move your rest to the left 1/32". Go back to 10 yards rezero your entire sight and repeat the process. If they drift to the left with distance move your rest to the right. ALWAYS MOVE IN SMALL INCREMENTS. 1/32" MAY NOT SEEM LIKE A LOT BUT IT CAN MAKE BIG IMPACT CHANGES. once you have all your shots dead on out to as far as you can shoot your centershot is set. Don't move it.

4. If you're shooting a two cam bow you can creep tune. You can do it with binaries but I'm not as experienced with binaries and I'd hate for your to lock up your bow . One cam bows you can't really creep tune. If you're interested in the procedure send me a pm. The long and short of it is basically to make sure your cams are in time.

5. Now you can start shooting your broadheads: Before you start number each arrow on the fletching. start at 20 yards.



Take arrow number one fire with field tip. note the impact. Walk down retrieve arrow number one and put the broadhead on. Fire with broadhead. note the impact, retreive arrow and repeat 3 times. (If it impacts in different places then you most likely have a form issue, something is not being repeated the same way. probably in the bow hand where your hand contacts the bow. Broadheads amplify form irregularities) If it impacts in the same place, that is good. take the the arrow with the broadhead and turn the nock to a different cock vane. Fire again. note the impact. Keep rotating cock vane until your poi with broadhead is the same as your field tip at 20 yards. for an arrow with 3 vanes you have a total of 6 nock positions. Don't forget to flip it 180 degrees and use those rotations as well. One of these position should get you close if not dead on left/right with your field tips. If the best you can get is dead center but just high or just low this is ok as well, we'll get to that later.

repeat this with all your arrows until they all or most impact to the same as field tips or just high or just low. (side note once you find an arrow broadhead combo, number the arrow and broadhead and use them together. IF you can't get a broadhead to group with the rest, try switching broadheads...I haven't found that this really works too often but it can)

If you find that when Shoot all your arrows with broadheads and If they consitently impact in the same place. That is good. If they're all low, then raise your rest up 1/32" at a time until they impact to the same place your field tips do.. you will have to rezero your field tips each time you move your rest. If they're impacting high lower your rest 1/32" at a time.

If they're just off to the left or right you can move your rest in the direction you want your broadheads to go again in 1/32" till they impact with your field tips, however if you do that check your walk back tuning again with field tips. If it threw it off put the centershot back to where it was. You might have to just discard that arrrow or try a different combo head/nock.

once your good at 20 yards. Repeat your groups at 40 yards and beyond if you can.


This is just the method I use and it is involved and time consuming but I know that once completed my bow and arrow tune is as best it can be.

You can accomplish most of the above by bareshaft tuning as well. Be forewarned Bareshaft tuning is not easy and your form must be rock solid.

Hope that helps.
 
#31
Re: Need Bow Advice

no worries..If you want specifics on creep tuning or bareshaft tuning let me know...But they definitely take a very consistent shooter to get the most out of the process.

Bear in mind, none of this is NECESSARY. You could always just move your sights.

For me it's more about knowing I've tuned the shooter, bow and arrows to it's maximum potential. The biggest component being the shooter. Pulling harder into the into the wall at the end of your draw cycle, opening your bow hand, closing your bow hand your stance, etc....all of that can have huge impact on your accuracy. The key is being consistent every single time.
 
#33
Re: Need Bow Advice

dude, the arrow/bow tuning post is awesome. Im definitely doing that. It may take some time, but i think it will be very worth while. I have to get my draw length measured so I can get my shafts ordered. Is natural fletching better / worse than synthetics? I have a shit ton of turkey feather laying around.
 
#34
Re: Need Bow Advice

Feathers are much more forgiving and lighter. Any contact made with the rest, bow or a branch won't affect the arrow as much...

However, rain, snow or ice aren't a good mix with feathers and if you're shooting a whisker bisquit your feathers won't last very long at all.

Personally, I'd stay with the quick spin STs 2" or the Blazers. Both are very tough vanes with the edge on overall performance going to the quickspins but they are also more expensive...

Last time I checked the quickspins were still cheaper than shooting FOBs. I've shot FOBs and I think they are a great. I just had hard time anchoring with them without interfering with my face and I moved away from fall away rests.
 
#35
Re: Need Bow Advice

Good post Frogman and well worth doing. Not having a mojor change in arrow impact between field tips and broadheads is key. It is nice to practice with field tips and cheaper bag targets and make a smooth switch to broadheads and 3D targets well before the season. It would be nice to shoot 3D and broadheads year round but its not very cost effective (for me anyways). +1 on the Blazer vanes also, so far they have been my favorite especially since its so humid here. Even heavy morning dew where I live can affect how feathers perform, not to mention sitting through a light rain on a scrape line haha. I have never tried the quick spins though.
 
#36
Re: Need Bow Advice

Can you give me some advice on arrows? How would the Gold Tip XT Hunters compare to say the Easton Axis Full Metal Jacket Carbon Infused? Do most hunt with all aluminum arrow, all carbon, or carbon + aluminum combo? Why would you choose one over the other? Penetration, accuracy, longevity?
 
#40
Re: Need Bow Advice

Stay with the all carbon or aluminum carbon composite arrows..

Gold tips are fine for hunting.

Aluminum arrows are able to be machined to near perfect straightness, which is why most competitors use aluminum arrows vs carbons.

Carbon can get close, but usually not as good as aluminum.

Aluminum arrows can get bent and then your straightness is gone.

Carbon is either straight or broken. Much more durable, but you need to inspect for cracks regularly. I've seen the results of a carbon arrow exploding on the shot. Not pretty, definitely not a pretty bow hand either.

That said, I've never blown up a carbon arrow made for hunting.

I like carbon express, but that's just a preference. The old terminator select series arrows that are discontinued were tough as nails. I've shot them into trees and concrete backings and not had them break. I don't think they make them any more.

I've still got the same 18 arrows I bought 5 years ago for hunting and still going strong.

Gold tips are less expensive and will do the job just fine, so long as they are the right length and spine for your draw weight, draw length, cam style, and point weight.

I prefer 125gr tips, but 100 gr tips will work just fine.
 
#41
Re: Need Bow Advice

I have between a 29 and 30 inch draw length (depending on which bow))and a 68 to 74 pound draw weight and I have shot the Carbon Express Maxima 350's for years without a problem. Don't try to push the envelope with light arrows teetering on the edge of your draw weight, like Frogman mentioned an exploded carbon arrow will turn your hand and arm into the ugliest and probably the most painful carbon/human porcupine you could imagine.
 
#43
Re: Need Bow Advice

Arrow spine can best be thought of as the amount of deflection that an arrow has. This is determined by the amount of bend an arrow has when a specified weight of 1.94 pounds is hung from the middle of a 29 inch long shaft with 28 inches being unsupported at the ends. Deflection is measured in inches. Note that the numbering on an arrow shaft is an arbitrary number and does not necessarily reflect the actual spine of an arrow. Just because an arrow is marked as a 250 shaft does not mean the deflection is .25 inches. Properly consulting an arrow chart will get you to the right shaft for your particular draw length, style of bow and draw weight. the spine consistency of the aluminum arrow is better than that of a carbon arrow. This is why many folks use the aluminum, The Aluminum carbon composite has the best of both worlds as you have greater spine consistency plus they can machine the carbon down to a perfect straightness. They are costly. Most folks can NOT shoot well enough to ever notice the difference, much like many gun nutz with Hensoldts hahaha

Point of balance is where an arrow would balance if put upon a razor edge. With a hunting arrow you will want to have a shaft that has the balance point that will be further towards the tip of the shaft with a forward of center (FOC) of between 10 and 15% for a compound bow. For adequate penetration with a recurve bow the FOC will generally be much higher. This is adjusted by both the weight of the tips and the weight of the fletchings and sometimes wraps is one is inclined to use those.
 
#44
Re: Need Bow Advice

^^^another good archery post.

back to frogman's arrow tuning, also try a few with an unfletched arrow. by the way the arrows land in the target will let you know if they are Porpoising (up and down, adjust nocking point slightly) or fishtailing (left to right, possibly hitting whatever resting surface you are using). this will determine your true center shot coming off the string. when you see it go into the target straight with out any wiggle, you've found that center shot and will actually help you determine a good FOC.

a quick dusting of baby powder will sho you where it's rubbing on the shaft, and leave some residue on the bow rest. this'll also help you when the fletching is on to achieve positive clearances.

the straighter your arrow flies, the less resistance going into game, = a more effective cut and penetration.

to simplify spine better, it is how stiff your arrow is compared to the weight of your tip and how much poundage your bow is, along with your draw length. some flex is good, too much spine noty so much. the arrow will actually bend from the force of the bow string forcing it from a dead stop to "max" speed in a fraction of a second. that flex actually can help to clear the bow riser.

i am (was) i die hard finger shooter, triggers shouldn't be on a bow IMO. that's what firearms are for. the flex from a lesser spined arrow is less when using a mechanical release, and has more of an up and down flex rather than side to side as the roll of the string is eliminated using the mechanical release. the up and down flex with the mechanical release is actually from having the arrow being forced into the arrow rest as the string roll is eliminated.
 
#45
Re: Need Bow Advice

If you do plan to use a release there was something mentioned earlier in this thread that helped both my brother and I. Shooting with your eyes closed at short range with a good size target will help you get a better feel for your trigger, doing it repeatedly with your eyes closed and not actually aiming seemed to help me with a smoother and more consistent release/press of the trigger. Seems to help prevent the snatching/jerking of the trigger.

Another helpful/fun (to me) thing to try is once you have your hunting pins dialed and start to get real comfortable with your skills, practice at long range. 50, 60,70+ yards. It makes 20 and 30 yard shots seem much easier. Shooting around other people can also make you better (unless you are like my brother and tend to fold under pressure haha)

When practicing I can't afford to shoot more than one arrow at the same spot if its under 40 yards. At 40 yards I can shoot 5 arrows at 5 different dots on a target and will shoot good,hitting two maybe three of the 1" dots out of 5. If I shoot more than one arrow at the same dot I frequently hit my first arrow with my second... I swear its like a magnet and sometimes it tears up two good arrows which cost between $10 and $20 dollars a piece. People who are sponsored or make more money than me will group ten shots into a 3" circle, it looks really cool, I just can't afford it, kind of like dumping too many 30 round clips. So take that for what its worth and save yourself some $ haha.

Your thread has me wanting to pick my bow back up. Every year I say I'm going to shoot year round but I always switch to guns or fishing and put my bow in the case.

Good luck deciding which way you will go with all of the options out there. I promise you cannot avoid at least some of the "live and learn" no matter who you listen to because every one is a little different.

Above all have fun and keep us posted.
 
#46
Re: Need Bow Advice

My advice from over 30 years of bowhunting is that even if you get a multiple pin sight to just set one pin for it. If your bow speed with hunting arrow is over 300 fps then set that single pin to the 30 yard mark. If your bow is shooting under 300 fps then set that pin to the 24 yard mark and call it good. In your area of the country I would have to say that most all your kill shots on deer will be under 30 yards with an average shot distance of 17 yards... With the fast bow set at 30 yards your max peak arrow height above aiming will be right about 3 inches. You will be about 5 inches low at the 40 yard mark so you are GTG with minimal thinking on your part.

For a release, it is very hard to go wrong with a Scott Lil Goose. I would also say to shoot with a D Loop.

I also have a preference for the LimbDriver rests for hunting.

For a quiver I like both the Kwikee Combo and the Bohning Lynx. I like the open hood and double arrow containment of those quivers. The 4 arrow kind is perfect.

 
#47
Re: Need Bow Advice

My new Hoyt has a loop on the strong that the trigger attaches too. When tuning arrows, if a change in nocking point is required, do I move the loop up and down on the string? I cant tell you how excited I am to get into this. I love my 300 winmags and bench guns, but have to drive to the range to shoot them. I can shoot my bow in my back yard. I see myself shooting frequently! I would be hard broken and maybe even turned off to bow hunting if I rushed and ended up wounding an animal.
 
#48
Re: Need Bow Advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jig Stick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My new Hoyt has a loop on the strong that the trigger attaches too. When tuning arrows, if a change in nocking point is required, do I move the loop up and down on the string? I cant tell you how excited I am to get into this. I love my 300 winmags and bench guns, but have to drive to the range to shoot them. I can shoot my bow in my back yard. I see myself shooting frequently! I would be hard broken and maybe even turned off to bow hunting if I rushed and ended up wounding an animal. </div></div>

If you do then just learn from it and do not repeat the same mistake. Some things are out of your control, but we do everything to mitigate any problems!
 
#49
Re: Need Bow Advice

It is easier to change the height on the rest instead after you have the loop tied in. You can paper tune your arrows to get good flight and then do walk back tuning to fine tune. Google both of these methods to get a good idea.

paper tuning
walk back tuning

If you shoot enough arrows at enough animals then even the best of us will have something go wrong and will wound an animal. It is not something that is a nice thing, but it is near inevitable. You just need to do everything in your power to try to make this not happen. This includes taking only high percentage shots at an non-alarmed animals within your very confident range. Shot angle is extremely important as is shot placement.
 
#50
Re: Need Bow Advice

Excerpt from one of my forums showing good shot placement

Deer number one of the 2009 season made a fatal error and got within 30 yards of me ( 27 yard shot ) at the 64 minute mark of the start of my season.  I shot a 1 3/8 inch Grim Reaper Razortip mechanical broadhead out of my new PSE Omen bow.  This is the first shot taken on game with this bow.  I have it set at 61 pounds which means I could draw this thing back while standing on my head if I had to.  It still shoots about 315 fps with a 393 grain arrow in spite of this.  This is also at a 29 inch draw length.  Awesome bow shooting an awesome broadhead = awesome results.  The deer made it less than 50 yards after the shot.  This pic shows what I consider to be the perfect archery shot placement on a deer.  A nice adult doe will make for some really good jerky.

 
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