I realize this may not be the right forum for this but I will assume{ouch} some of you guy's deal with battle rifles a bit and may even shoot surplus ammo through them so:I was wondering if anyone has personal feedback on the plus and minus of using a food saver vacuum sealer to seal up a bunch [ 8000 rds] of foreign surplus .308. My questions are 1. Is this a valid method of preserving the ammo. 2. Does this protect against corrosion if there is none present when it was sealed and 3. Does this process extend the shelf life of the ammo. I got this ammo in wood crates with cardboard boxes of 20 rds each totaling 1600 rds per crate. There is next to no sealing going on in the crates and I know I can use 50 cal boxes but I have this food saver and don't use it, plus I thought I can extend the life by removing as much air as possible I have shot enough of this stuff to be satisfied it is acceptable for my various .308 battle/assault rifles but since I am more interested in the bolt rifle right now I would feel better doing what I can to preserve this stuff as it may be awhile before I shoot it Thanks for any help Lurch
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Need go/no go on vacuum sealing surplus ammo...
- Thread starter AndrewWilliams
- Start date
Re: Need go/no go on vacuum sealing surplus ammo...
I'd do it, no issues with it, toss 4 or 5 of these in each large bag mixed in with the ammo.
Buy at least 50 for the price break.
http://www.silicagelpackets.com/silica-gel-packets/1-gram-silica-gel-packet-tyvek.html
I'd do it, no issues with it, toss 4 or 5 of these in each large bag mixed in with the ammo.
Buy at least 50 for the price break.
http://www.silicagelpackets.com/silica-gel-packets/1-gram-silica-gel-packet-tyvek.html
Re: Need go/no go on vacuum sealing surplus ammo...
nah....it ALL needs to be recycled....send it all to me Boltripper and i'll make sure it gets properly done
nah....it ALL needs to be recycled....send it all to me Boltripper and i'll make sure it gets properly done
Re: Need go/no go on vacuum sealing surplus ammo...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">nah....it ALL needs to be recycled....send it all to me Boltripper and i'll make sure it gets properly done</div></div>
Boltripper, always volunteering for community service!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">nah....it ALL needs to be recycled....send it all to me Boltripper and i'll make sure it gets properly done</div></div>
Boltripper, always volunteering for community service!!
Re: Need go/no go on vacuum sealing surplus ammo...
Thanks Tripper, I am glad to see someone concerned with the planet's well being.I will send you all the berdan primed empty brass when I have shot it up. You pay freight? Oh and thanks Jason
Thanks Tripper, I am glad to see someone concerned with the planet's well being.I will send you all the berdan primed empty brass when I have shot it up. You pay freight? Oh and thanks Jason
Re: Need go/no go on vacuum sealing surplus ammo...
you know....heres a thought.....ever heard of mexican match ?
you know....heres a thought.....ever heard of mexican match ?
Re: Need go/no go on vacuum sealing surplus ammo...
It's been a while BR....is that pulling the cheapo bullets and reseating SMKs in their place?
It's been a while BR....is that pulling the cheapo bullets and reseating SMKs in their place?
Re: Need go/no go on vacuum sealing surplus ammo...
I don't KNOW what effect a vacuum would have on ammo but I'm uncomfortable with the idea. The military has done a LOT of testing for best storage and they seem quite happy with allowing each cartridge to be it's own sealed container.
All a vacuum could do is remove volatiles from any cartridge that might "leak", perhaps actually acclerating decomposition. ??
Keeping ammo dry and moderately cool seems to be all it needs to last several decades.
I don't KNOW what effect a vacuum would have on ammo but I'm uncomfortable with the idea. The military has done a LOT of testing for best storage and they seem quite happy with allowing each cartridge to be it's own sealed container.
All a vacuum could do is remove volatiles from any cartridge that might "leak", perhaps actually acclerating decomposition. ??
Keeping ammo dry and moderately cool seems to be all it needs to last several decades.
Re: Need go/no go on vacuum sealing surplus ammo...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's been a while BR....is that pulling the cheapo bullets and reseating SMKs in their place?</div></div>
....perzackly......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's been a while BR....is that pulling the cheapo bullets and reseating SMKs in their place?</div></div>
....perzackly......
Re: Need go/no go on vacuum sealing surplus ammo...
I wore out a food saver in the late 1990s doing it. Just remember to make the bundles small enough to go in ammo cans. The reason for that is the plastic baggies are easier to get holes poked in them than you might think. I've had several bags loose the vacuum. But if you do it right and are careful, it works like a champ.
+1 for jason and the desipaks. I love them.
I wore out a food saver in the late 1990s doing it. Just remember to make the bundles small enough to go in ammo cans. The reason for that is the plastic baggies are easier to get holes poked in them than you might think. I've had several bags loose the vacuum. But if you do it right and are careful, it works like a champ.
+1 for jason and the desipaks. I love them.
Re: Need go/no go on vacuum sealing surplus ammo...
Bolttripper, doesn't mexican match use U.S. mil brass? The stuff I have is from S. America and uses 150gr bullets.Do you change out powder also?
Bolttripper, doesn't mexican match use U.S. mil brass? The stuff I have is from S. America and uses 150gr bullets.Do you change out powder also?
Re: Need go/no go on vacuum sealing surplus ammo...
Pretty sure that its called the Mexican Match because the Brass/Bullet combination was first used at a match in Mexico.
Not because it was mexican brass or bullets.
Pretty sure that its called the Mexican Match because the Brass/Bullet combination was first used at a match in Mexico.
Not because it was mexican brass or bullets.
Re: Need go/no go on vacuum sealing surplus ammo...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lurch6357</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bolttripper, doesn't mexican match use U.S. mil brass? The stuff I have is from S. America and uses 150gr bullets.Do you change out powder also?</div></div>
yeah ditch the powder and projo and load like you want to win a match
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lurch6357</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bolttripper, doesn't mexican match use U.S. mil brass? The stuff I have is from S. America and uses 150gr bullets.Do you change out powder also?</div></div>
yeah ditch the powder and projo and load like you want to win a match
Re: Need go/no go on vacuum sealing surplus ammo...
In US military cans the ammo life is estimated by the ammo engineering types to be:
Opened ammo exposed to air but kept in cool dry place 75 years
Unopened ammo can kept in cool dry place 125 years minimum.
This is the reason there is a metal security seal on the wire bound crates to insure the seal integrity of the cans are still in tact.
GI ammo cans are considered trash once they are opened as the original seal integrity is considered tainted once it is opened.
Two things kill ammo in long term storage, exposure to air and exposure to heat. Exposure to air is a killer thus the sealant on the primers and the case necks. Contray to popular belief the sealant is to keep the ammo as manufactured and not necessarily water out.
I did a test a number of years ago. A reserve unit was at the range and a rain shower came up. They threw all the opened ammo in a ammo can, sealed it up and returned to armory and forgot to open the can and there it sat in a cold bunker for a year. I asked if I could have it for a test and they gave it to me.
The ammo was M193 in strippers and bandoleers. The bandoleers were still in good shape but the stripper clips were rusted and useless. I have to break the ammo out of the strippers.
To my surprise and pleasure every last round fired as normal.
Sealing in plastic bags won't hurt anything for sure. If the ammo is reloaded it is a excellent idea as the primers are not sealed. You can help reloaded ammo shelf life by coating head of case with clear nail polish and wiping off excess by dragging across a paper towel removing the polish on the top of the case head but leaving it around the primer.
I have shot ammo I loaded over ten years back stored in cool dry place and no problems insofar as ignition is concerned. Accuracy can deterriorate a bit due to cold welding of the bullet to the case neck.
If you are going to load and store for long periods I would clean the cases well before loading them as the carbon residue left in the cases is not going to help anything in the long run.
If you want to do your own QA test, load ten rounds as normal and place them under water over night primers up. Also load ten rounds and apply the nail polish and store the same. Next morning look at the primers without disturbing the water and see if you have air bubbles forming around the edge of the primer. If you have air bubbles you have a leaking case.
If I were heading into the bush for dangerous stuff I would have my ammo so treated and stored in plastic bags.
In US military cans the ammo life is estimated by the ammo engineering types to be:
Opened ammo exposed to air but kept in cool dry place 75 years
Unopened ammo can kept in cool dry place 125 years minimum.
This is the reason there is a metal security seal on the wire bound crates to insure the seal integrity of the cans are still in tact.
GI ammo cans are considered trash once they are opened as the original seal integrity is considered tainted once it is opened.
Two things kill ammo in long term storage, exposure to air and exposure to heat. Exposure to air is a killer thus the sealant on the primers and the case necks. Contray to popular belief the sealant is to keep the ammo as manufactured and not necessarily water out.
I did a test a number of years ago. A reserve unit was at the range and a rain shower came up. They threw all the opened ammo in a ammo can, sealed it up and returned to armory and forgot to open the can and there it sat in a cold bunker for a year. I asked if I could have it for a test and they gave it to me.
The ammo was M193 in strippers and bandoleers. The bandoleers were still in good shape but the stripper clips were rusted and useless. I have to break the ammo out of the strippers.
To my surprise and pleasure every last round fired as normal.
Sealing in plastic bags won't hurt anything for sure. If the ammo is reloaded it is a excellent idea as the primers are not sealed. You can help reloaded ammo shelf life by coating head of case with clear nail polish and wiping off excess by dragging across a paper towel removing the polish on the top of the case head but leaving it around the primer.
I have shot ammo I loaded over ten years back stored in cool dry place and no problems insofar as ignition is concerned. Accuracy can deterriorate a bit due to cold welding of the bullet to the case neck.
If you are going to load and store for long periods I would clean the cases well before loading them as the carbon residue left in the cases is not going to help anything in the long run.
If you want to do your own QA test, load ten rounds as normal and place them under water over night primers up. Also load ten rounds and apply the nail polish and store the same. Next morning look at the primers without disturbing the water and see if you have air bubbles forming around the edge of the primer. If you have air bubbles you have a leaking case.
If I were heading into the bush for dangerous stuff I would have my ammo so treated and stored in plastic bags.
Re: Need go/no go on vacuum sealing surplus ammo...
I don't think it would be harmful, and I also think it would have only limited value over simply keeping it in a manner which provides an effective moisture barrier.
I realize your intentions are good, but really, don't lose any sleep over this. Military cartridges are made well enough to survive being handled and stored by private soldiers, who seldom give this stuff much or any thought at all.
Greg
I don't think it would be harmful, and I also think it would have only limited value over simply keeping it in a manner which provides an effective moisture barrier.
I realize your intentions are good, but really, don't lose any sleep over this. Military cartridges are made well enough to survive being handled and stored by private soldiers, who seldom give this stuff much or any thought at all.
Greg
Re: Need go/no go on vacuum sealing surplus ammo...
I've heard the theory that the vacuum can pop uncrimped primers out of their pockets, or at least partially so. I'd like to know...
I've heard the theory that the vacuum can pop uncrimped primers out of their pockets, or at least partially so. I'd like to know...
Re: Need go/no go on vacuum sealing surplus ammo...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't KNOW what effect a vacuum would have on ammo but I'm uncomfortable with the idea. The military has done a LOT of testing for best storage and they seem quite happy with allowing each cartridge to be it's own sealed container.
All a vacuum could do is remove volatiles from any cartridge that might "leak", perhaps actually acclerating decomposition. ??
Keeping ammo dry and moderately cool seems to be all it needs to last several decades. </div></div>
Ever try toopen an ammo can ? They are really a Bitch to open sometimes because of the Vacuum seal.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't KNOW what effect a vacuum would have on ammo but I'm uncomfortable with the idea. The military has done a LOT of testing for best storage and they seem quite happy with allowing each cartridge to be it's own sealed container.
All a vacuum could do is remove volatiles from any cartridge that might "leak", perhaps actually acclerating decomposition. ??
Keeping ammo dry and moderately cool seems to be all it needs to last several decades. </div></div>
Ever try toopen an ammo can ? They are really a Bitch to open sometimes because of the Vacuum seal.
Re: Need go/no go on vacuum sealing surplus ammo...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hummer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In US military cans the ammo life is estimated by the ammo engineering types to be:
Opened ammo exposed to air but kept in cool dry place 75 years
Unopened ammo can kept in cool dry place 125 years minimum.
This is the reason there is a metal security seal on the wire bound crates to insure the seal integrity of the cans are still in tact.
GI ammo cans are considered trash once they are opened as the original seal integrity is considered tainted once it is opened.
Two things kill ammo in long term storage, exposure to air and exposure to heat. Exposure to air is a killer thus the sealant on the primers and the case necks. Contray to popular belief the sealant is to keep the ammo as manufactured and not necessarily water out.
I did a test a number of years ago. A reserve unit was at the range and a rain shower came up. They threw all the opened ammo in a ammo can, sealed it up and returned to armory and forgot to open the can and there it sat in a cold bunker for a year. I asked if I could have it for a test and they gave it to me.
The ammo was M193 in strippers and bandoleers. The bandoleers were still in good shape but the stripper clips were rusted and useless. I have to break the ammo out of the strippers.
To my surprise and pleasure every last round fired as normal.
Sealing in plastic bags won't hurt anything for sure. If the ammo is reloaded it is a excellent idea as the primers are not sealed. You can help reloaded ammo shelf life by coating head of case with clear nail polish and wiping off excess by dragging across a paper towel removing the polish on the top of the case head but leaving it around the primer.
<span style="font-weight: bold"> </span> FYI DO NOT USE NAIL POLISH !! IT HAS FORMALDEHYDE (sp) IT CAN KILL PRIMERS.
I have shot ammo I loaded over ten years back stored in cool dry place and no problems insofar as ignition is concerned. Accuracy can deterriorate a bit due to cold welding of the bullet to the case neck.
If you are going to load and store for long periods I would clean the cases well before loading them as the carbon residue left in the cases is not going to help anything in the long run.
If you want to do your own QA test, load ten rounds as normal and place them under water over night primers up. Also load ten rounds and apply the nail polish and store the same. Next morning look at the primers without disturbing the water and see if you have air bubbles forming around the edge of the primer. If you have air bubbles you have a leaking case.
If I were heading into the bush for dangerous stuff I would have my ammo so treated and stored in plastic bags.
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hummer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In US military cans the ammo life is estimated by the ammo engineering types to be:
Opened ammo exposed to air but kept in cool dry place 75 years
Unopened ammo can kept in cool dry place 125 years minimum.
This is the reason there is a metal security seal on the wire bound crates to insure the seal integrity of the cans are still in tact.
GI ammo cans are considered trash once they are opened as the original seal integrity is considered tainted once it is opened.
Two things kill ammo in long term storage, exposure to air and exposure to heat. Exposure to air is a killer thus the sealant on the primers and the case necks. Contray to popular belief the sealant is to keep the ammo as manufactured and not necessarily water out.
I did a test a number of years ago. A reserve unit was at the range and a rain shower came up. They threw all the opened ammo in a ammo can, sealed it up and returned to armory and forgot to open the can and there it sat in a cold bunker for a year. I asked if I could have it for a test and they gave it to me.
The ammo was M193 in strippers and bandoleers. The bandoleers were still in good shape but the stripper clips were rusted and useless. I have to break the ammo out of the strippers.
To my surprise and pleasure every last round fired as normal.
Sealing in plastic bags won't hurt anything for sure. If the ammo is reloaded it is a excellent idea as the primers are not sealed. You can help reloaded ammo shelf life by coating head of case with clear nail polish and wiping off excess by dragging across a paper towel removing the polish on the top of the case head but leaving it around the primer.
<span style="font-weight: bold"> </span> FYI DO NOT USE NAIL POLISH !! IT HAS FORMALDEHYDE (sp) IT CAN KILL PRIMERS.
I have shot ammo I loaded over ten years back stored in cool dry place and no problems insofar as ignition is concerned. Accuracy can deterriorate a bit due to cold welding of the bullet to the case neck.
If you are going to load and store for long periods I would clean the cases well before loading them as the carbon residue left in the cases is not going to help anything in the long run.
If you want to do your own QA test, load ten rounds as normal and place them under water over night primers up. Also load ten rounds and apply the nail polish and store the same. Next morning look at the primers without disturbing the water and see if you have air bubbles forming around the edge of the primer. If you have air bubbles you have a leaking case.
If I were heading into the bush for dangerous stuff I would have my ammo so treated and stored in plastic bags.
</div></div>
Re: Need go/no go on vacuum sealing surplus ammo...
Thanks everyone! I really appreciate the response. I am really starting to love this forum. I just joined but the few posts I have put up have been answered by people that don't just guess but back it up with demonstrated results. Refreshing to find honesty and knowledge. All that and a BS meter too!Thanks again!
Thanks everyone! I really appreciate the response. I am really starting to love this forum. I just joined but the few posts I have put up have been answered by people that don't just guess but back it up with demonstrated results. Refreshing to find honesty and knowledge. All that and a BS meter too!Thanks again!
Re: Need go/no go on vacuum sealing surplus ammo...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hummer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Two things kill ammo in long term storage, exposure to air and exposure to heat. </div></div>
What about ammo stored in a safe with a golden rod type instrument? Is it slowly killing the ammo? I've got a few cans with LC193 in my safe in the garage.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hummer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Two things kill ammo in long term storage, exposure to air and exposure to heat. </div></div>
What about ammo stored in a safe with a golden rod type instrument? Is it slowly killing the ammo? I've got a few cans with LC193 in my safe in the garage.
Re: Need go/no go on vacuum sealing surplus ammo...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lurch6357</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bolttripper, doesn't mexican match use U.S. mil brass? The stuff I have is from S. America and uses 150gr bullets.Do you change out powder also? </div></div>
I've shot K+ of the South African ammo with the 150 pulled and replaced with 135 Sierra Match King or Berger 135s FB. Very accurate, good enough for 784 with my McCoy built M1 in a 200 yard reduced course match. Did not change powder, just push pull, ran the charged case through a neck sizer with the proper bushing (no decapping pin of course) and seated bullet.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lurch6357</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bolttripper, doesn't mexican match use U.S. mil brass? The stuff I have is from S. America and uses 150gr bullets.Do you change out powder also? </div></div>
I've shot K+ of the South African ammo with the 150 pulled and replaced with 135 Sierra Match King or Berger 135s FB. Very accurate, good enough for 784 with my McCoy built M1 in a 200 yard reduced course match. Did not change powder, just push pull, ran the charged case through a neck sizer with the proper bushing (no decapping pin of course) and seated bullet.
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