Fieldcraft Need help counting clicks.

T

tickled pink

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Minuteman
Aug 29, 2010
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Just north of Atlanta
#1
The scope I have is a Viper 6-24x50mm PST FFP MOA with a Custom turret that is very accurate, but only goes to 900 yds. on the second revolution. The problem is that they will not let me shoot unless I can prove that I will be on paper with the first shot(?). They don't want people guessing and shooting into the next county.

How many clicks do I need to get to 1,000 yds. if I need to come up 56.8 inches?

I'll give you this link because it much easier to attach files.

Hope someone can help me out.

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=600638

40gt
 
#3
Re: Need help counting clicks.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobertB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What exactly is the question? </div></div>

How many clicks do I need to get to 1,000 yds. if I need to come up 56.8 inches?

40gt
 
#6
Re: Need help counting clicks.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 40gt</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> How many clicks do I need to get to 1,000 yds. if I need to come up 56.8 inches?

40gt </div></div>


What are you shooting that only drops 56.8 inches at 1000 yards?
 
#7
Re: Need help counting clicks.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 40gt</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> How many clicks do I need to get to 1,000 yds. if I need to come up 56.8 inches?

40gt </div></div>


What are you shooting that only drops 56.8 inches at 1000 yards?

</div></div>

It took a Marine to catch my mistake. Glad we have them protecting us.

It should be a drop of 284.2 inches. The other number was from my imaginary .50 BMG necked down to .224 with a velocity of a little over 9,000 fps.

Check here again: http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=600638

40gt
 
#9
Re: Need help counting clicks.

284.2 inches would be (roughly) 27.0 moa at 1000 yards.

Forget counting clicks, way too much trouble. Go with your turret markings. If you have 15 moa per revolution, go a full spin, then stop at 12 on the second revolution.
 
#11
Re: Need help counting clicks.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HillbillyfromAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe you just get a big ass sheet of paper that way you don't have to worry about missing. Just who is they that your referring to? WTF? </div></div>

"They" are the people running the match.

And I am going to put up a 8' tall target at 200 yds. and adjust my scope until it shoots at the correct elevation above 200 yd. zero to be on the paper at 1,000 yds. I hope.

40gt
 
#13
Re: Need help counting clicks.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 40gt</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HillbillyfromAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe you just get a big ass sheet of paper that way you don't have to worry about missing. Just who is they that your referring to? WTF? </div></div>

"They" are the people running the match.

And I am going to put up a 8" tall target at 200 yds. and adjust my scope until it shoots at the correct elevation above 200 yd. zero to be on the paper at 1,000 yds. I hope.

40gt </div></div> lol ya wow
 
#16
Re: Need help counting clicks.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dieselgeek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Saw this post on another forum.

I think his turret has markings for up to 900 yards. </div></div>

You are correct it only goes to 900 yds., but it has at least 3 more revolutions past 900 yds.

40gt
 
#17
Re: Need help counting clicks.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 40gt</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dieselgeek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Saw this post on another forum.

I think his turret has markings for up to 900 yards. </div></div>

You are correct it only goes to 900 yds., but it has at least 3 more revolutions past 900 yds.

40gt </div></div>
crazy.gif
wait.. what?
 
#18
Re: Need help counting clicks.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 40gt</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dieselgeek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Saw this post on another forum.

I think his turret has markings for up to 900 yards. </div></div>

You are correct it only goes to 900 yds., <span style="color: #FF0000">but it has at least 3 more revolutions past 900 yds.</span>40gt </div></div>

You may have lines on your turrets that run horizontally, so when you turn 1 whole turn a line shows horizonally, if you turn 2 turns then 2 horizontal lines show.
Follow me?
 
#21
Re: Need help counting clicks.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dieselgeek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quickdraw40</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We need pics of this custom turret.</div></div> </div></div>

We need pics of this custom turret.
 
#24
Re: Need help counting clicks.

by way, I have the same scope, and have no fucking idea what you are talking about or trying to say.

You have marks to get to 900 on your scope. But dont know how many "clicks" it takes to get to 900? Well, one, how in gods green earth, do you know that the mark for 900 yds, is in fact no the mark for 756yds, if you have no idea how many moa it takes to get that far.

Second, why not get relatively good at say 100yds, then 300yds, and so on, progressively building your skill instead of just throwing lead into no mans land?
 
#27
Re: Need help counting clicks.

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=584687&highlight=

"People have been asking about what ring height will work with the new PST 6-24x50mm scope. Here are a couple of pictures of my Savage with their Target action with a very heavy barrel.

The scope is a Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50mm FFP MOA with a Vortex Custom Elevation Turret made for 6mm Norma BR. which is accurate all the way out to 1,200 yds. which is the farthest I have shot it so far."




According to that, your turret is accurate and you've shot it out to 1,200 yards. WTF
 
#29
Re: Need help counting clicks.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 40gt</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> How many clicks do I need to get to 1,000 yds. if I need to come up 56.8 inches?

40gt </div></div>


What are you shooting that only drops 56.8 inches at 1000 yards?

</div></div>
That's what I was wondering. Must be a flat shooting rifle.
 
#30
Re: Need help counting clicks.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 40gt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The scope I have is a Viper 6-24x50mm PST FFP MOA with a Custom turret that is very accurate, but only goes to 900 yds. on the second revolution. The problem is that they will not let me shoot unless I can prove that I will be on paper with the first shot(?). They don't want people guessing and shooting into the next county.

How many clicks do I need to get to 1,000 yds. if I need to come up 56.8 inches?

I'll give you this link because it much easier to attach files.

Hope someone can help me out.

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=600638

40gt </div></div>

You left a lot of info out. What caliber are you shooting? What barrel length? What grain bullet? How many clicks equals 1 MOA on your scope (you did say you had custom turrets, so how is everyone else supposed to know)? You need to look at ballistic charts to give you an idea. You then need to confirm them by shooting to determine your dope. If you have 1/8 MOA turrets, you need to dial more clicks than if you had a 1/4 MOA turret.
 
#31
Re: Need help counting clicks.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">by way, I have the same scope, and have no fucking idea what you are talking about or trying to say.

You have marks to get to 900 on your scope. But dont know how many "clicks" it takes to get to 900? Well, one, how in gods green earth, do you know that the mark for 900 yds, is in fact no the mark for 756yds, if you have no idea how many moa it takes to get that far.

Second, why not get relatively good at say 100yds, then 300yds, and so on, progressively building your skill instead of just throwing lead into no mans land? </div></div>

I am glad I am not the only one that is confused. I don't have the scope, but this stuff is easy to figure out. Sounds like he needs to learn his scope and get his dope starting at 100 yards and work his way out from there. I didn't understand the revolution part. There should be at least 2 more. Why can't he keep rolling his turret?
 
#32
Re: Need help counting clicks.

Reading over this, I think I'm understanding you.

You have a custom turret like this one: PST Custom MOA Turret

It is marked for two turns worth to get you to 900yds under the conditions you submitted to Vortex when buying the turret. It would require you to go into the third revolution to get to 1000yds which is your upcoming situation, and want to know how many clicks that requires. Am I tracking right so far?

Here is what we need to give you that info, or what you need to give that info to yourself: What is the ballistic data you submitted to Vortex, and is that the same data you're shooting with? Only then can you get an estimate of how many more clicks you will need to come up to hit at 1000yds.

This is exactly the reason that I and many other shooters out there hate the custom turrets, especially when they aren't still marked for regular MOA/MIL increments. They suck when you are outside of your perfect standardized conditions, which is pretty much ALWAYS. Changes in temperature, density altitude, loads type, etc throw them off. In my opinion, custom BDC turrets for ranges are for the layman who cannot comprehend bullet drop calculations, and shooters who need it "right f-n now!" like infantry with ACOGs. I don't believe you are either.

Here is my recommendation to you: Get yourself a standard MOA turret for your elevation, or if you already have one, get it installed on that scope pronto. Get yourself some bullet drop charts done up using either your own ballistic program or the one on JBM: http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/calculators/calculators.shtml

<span style="text-decoration: line-through">To answer your first question of how many MOA clicks (assuming 1/4 moa clicks) you need to go to compensate for the additional 56.8" of drop (your spec given in the original post), it is:
56.8"/1.047=54.25 (convert inches to MOA units)
54.25/10=5.425moa (Adjust for 1000yd range)
5.425*4=21.7 rounded to <span style="font-weight: bold">22 clicks</span> (convert to 1/4 moa clicks)</span> <span style="color: #FF0000">ETA: Disregard. I was using his improper data.</span>

<span style="font-style: italic">Keep in mind that this is based off the data you gave originally, and would require that the conditions you shoot in are the same as when you calculated that bullet drop. Should it be good enough to get you onto a 8'x8' target backer and not hitting someone next county over, probably....</span>

Avoiding all this math is why almost nobody counts clicks or uses the custom turrets. Get yourself a new MOA turret, a set of customized cheat sheet bullet drop cards, and start dialing your settings vs. counting clicks and being at the mercy of the weather conditions being consistent.
 
#33
Re: Need help counting clicks.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BamaLoaded</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is 40GT and Quickdraw40 the same person? </div></div>

I quoted 40gt from another forum, try to follow the conversation.
 
#34
Re: Need help counting clicks.

OK I think everyone is getting confused and it is probably partially my fault. Some of ya'll haven't read what I wrote in the beginning.

I am shooting a 6mm Norma BR. with Berger 105 VLD match hunting bullets with an average velocity of 2874 fps.

What I wanted to do is shoot at 200 yds and move the turret by (?) clicks to the height above my 200 yd zero which would get the trajectory to put me on paper at 1,000 yds. Am I explaining this correctly?

I do not have a place where I can shoot at long distances this is why I am asking for help so I have it right the first time. I think I have it figured out. If I get a chance I will test it at 200 yds. this weekend.



I do not know where the 1000 yd shoot will be. All I know is that it is quite a few hours from where I live. They are in the process of moving the range to a different place because the other place has been flooding a lot this past year.

If you open this up the custom turret is at the bottom.

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?p=5261028#post5261028

40gt
 
#35
Re: Need help counting clicks.

OK, referencing your first post's link to the other forum here: http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=600638 , your JBM chart says with your data that you need to come up 27.1moa to get you to 1000yds. So, with your 1/4moa turrets, starting at your 200yd base zero, count up 108 clicks (27*4). Unless you haven't checked to see if your scope is tracking properly, you're wasting your time putting a big sheet of paper out to shoot at.

Is there something else that I'm missing here? It's not that difficult.
 
#36
Re: Need help counting clicks.

Sound like you are trying to do a crude verion of "battle-sighting" or "combat-sighting" your rifle. Just to get the idea a little more clearer.....You want to make an "adjustment" to your scope so it will shoot high @ 200 but be on tartget @ 1k.?.?Right? Do you actually know the measurement of adjustment that the reticle will make when you turn the turret? From what I have read you know that it goes out to 900 yds. Is this info accurate and proven? Is your load development proven to be a match to your scope and its adjusments? JBM or whatever program you are/will use will only get you into the ball park. Regardless of how you get your data you will need to verify and correct for the actual performance of your loads. A match is not the best place to do this. Timed events and shooting on the move dont allow for too much research. Trying to do all this guesswork on the web is only going to make this trip to the match a waste of time. Not trying to ruin your day, but your kind of flying blind. Worst case scenario, if you get your dope right, use your reticle for hold over @ 1k.
 
#37
Re: Need help counting clicks.

First thing is that Is 40GT and Quickdraw40 are not the same person.

My scope has very accurate adjustments. I have shot to 1200 yds and hit all the gongs, but never saw any group sizes on paper past 400 yds. I was able to hit a 7" gong 3 out of 5 shots at 700 yds. To hit the 700 yd. gong I just turned the custom turret to 7 for 700 yds. and held off for the wind. To hit the much larger gong I turned it to 9 for 900 yds. and held for the wind. Before this I had never shot past 400 yds with this rifle or scope.

I guess I am trying to get a "crude" sight in for 1000 yds, but do it at 200 yds.

I think that the custom turret is very accurate, but would like to make a good showing when shooting at 1000 yds.

40gt
 
#38
Re: Need help counting clicks.

All right just so you don't kill some poor bastard with a stray bullet please take this advice.

Do NOT try what your talking about at 200yds.

Unless your shooting on a say 1200yd range. The bullet will pass through the paper and continue it's flight until one of two things happen. 1) Gravity brings it to a stop by the bullet making contact with the ground. 2) The bullet comes in contact with an object that will stop it.

Your claiming to have shot this setup out to 1200yds, hitting a 7in gong at 700yds, and a larger gong at 900yds. One of these is bullshit. Either you've never shot at those distances or you do not need to know what your asking. Find a range that you can work on your shooting at all the distances you would like to shoot at. If your able to shoot steel at 1200 paper at 1,000 wouldn't be any different. There's a lot of info on here for people that truly want to learn something.
 
#39
Re: Need help counting clicks.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 40gt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First thing is that Is 40GT and Quickdraw40 are not the same person.

My scope has very accurate adjustments. I have shout to 1200 yds and hit all the gongs, but never saw any group sizes on paper past 400 yds. I was able to hit a 7" gong 3 out of 5 shots. To hit the 700 yd. gong I just turned the custom turret to 7 for 700 yds. and held off for the wind. To hit the much larger gong I turned it to 9 for 900 yds. and held for the wind. Before this I had never shot past 400 yds with this rifle or scope.

I guess I am trying to get a "crude" sight in for 1000 yds, but do it at 200 yds.
I think that the custom turret is very accurate, but would like to make a good showing when shooting at 1000 yds.
40gt</div></div>

Well, I have news for you: Your not going to make a good showing. You are not
shooting proven dope. You dont even understand MOA. This stuff takes some math skill. As others stated, ballistic charts will only get you in the ball park. If you have shot out to 1200 at "gongs," you should have an idea what you need to roll your turrets at 1000. Match what you have proven with your setup to ballistic charts.

I don't know if you were referring to me, but I read what you wrote. In fact, I quoted you. I'm not trying to slam you, but you are not prepared for this "match." In fact, they don't want guys like you shooting there. You said yourself that you don't know how much to roll for 1000. That's the reason they have the rules in place. You will be lucky to hit paper.........
 
#40
Re: Need help counting clicks.

I've got so much Tired Head from reading this thread! I've been trying so hard to figure it out that I've induced myself into a deep state of mental retardation....
 
#41
Re: Need help counting clicks.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">by way, I have the same scope, and have no fucking idea what you are talking about or trying to say.

You have marks to get to 900 on your scope. But dont know how many "clicks" it takes to get to 900? Well, one, how in gods green earth, do you know that the mark for 900 yds, is in fact no the mark for 756yds, if you have no idea how many moa it takes to get that far.

Second, why not get relatively good at say 100yds, then 300yds, and so on, progressively building your skill instead of just throwing lead into no mans land?
</div></div>

Because it's fun to launch rounds like mortars in order to see where they land. Some poor hunter will probably die from a stray round because of him..........
 
#42
Re: Need help counting clicks.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I assume this is for a match...where in GA are you shooting?</div></div>

I heard there was a match in Swainsboro area. I would like to know what part or Georgia he lives.........
 
#43
Re: Need help counting clicks.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HillbillyfromAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe you just get a big ass sheet of paper that way you don't have to worry about missing. Just who is they that your referring to? WTF?</div></div>

Maybe he can just shoot at a billboard or something?
 
#44
Re: Need help counting clicks.

I am thinking Swainsboro as well being that it runs to 1200 I believe. There was an F class match last weekend there....I am not sure if there is a 1000 yrd match as I have never shot there before but plan on it very soon.
 
#45
Re: Need help counting clicks.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PSL1078</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HillbillyfromAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe you just get a big ass sheet of paper that way you don't have to worry about missing. Just who is they that your referring to? WTF?</div></div>

Maybe he can just shoot at a billboard or something?</div></div>

I was actually thinking about that mythbusters episode where they were folding the football field sized sheet of paper.
 
#46
Re: Need help counting clicks.

I see what you are trying to do gt40 it might get you close but it would be better to go to a 1000 yard range before the match to get some good dope for your round. There's a difference in the variables from 200 to 1000.
 
#47
Re: Need help counting clicks.

If your turret is really dead on to its 900 limit in the conditions you shoot the only thing that makes sense is to figure out how many MOA you need to adjust from 900 to 1000 and count those clicks from the 900 hash mark.

You've got that reference, there is no damn reason to try to count all the way from your zero.

Hell, even if your turret isn't right you should do it that way, you will just have to figure out the actual value (in MOA from zero) of the 900 hash mark.
 
#48
Re: Need help counting clicks.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maladat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If your turret is really dead on to its 900 limit in the conditions you shoot the only thing that makes sense is to figure out how many MOA you need to adjust from 900 to 1000 and count those clicks from the 900 hash mark.

You've got that reference, there is no damn reason to try to count all the way from your zero.

Hell, even if your turret isn't right you should do it that way, you will just have to figure out the actual value (in MOA from zero) of the 900 hash mark.</div></div>

Judging by the fact that he asked how many clicks he had to dial in and earlier post, instead of multiplying the variable he already had by 4, I am guessing he hasn't quite gotten the grasp of the MOA concept.........
 
#49
Re: Need help counting clicks.

I wasnt trying to harp on you or anything. Even though you claim to have shot up to 1200 yds you dont seem too sure of the actions needed to go to 1k.

Doing what you plan to do leaves too much real estate between your 200yd target and your 1k. Environmental conditions can change and have a profound effect on your shot at 1k, negating the usefulness of your zero. Also, take this into consideration, and not as an insult. You are probably not the first person to think of this. I am sure others have tried, and as you can see by the reponses, it was probably not very effective or it would be a new standard. It looks more like you are attempting a "trick-shot" method as opposed to precision shooting. Your goal is understood, but it offer no advantage when pitted against experienced shooters who know their rifle, ammo, scope and capabilities. They can adjust from zero, shoot far, adjust, shoot close, adjust, shoot really far, adjust back to zero in probably the same amount of time it takes you to figure out where the next bullet "might" land.

In your case you need to know that your scope, rifle, ammo, and shooter are all in tune and work together. If you were to look at a calculator generated dope to 1k yds and your turret is only marked to 900 then a dope card can get you in the area. Just take your 900yd dope, subtract it from the 1k dope, and there you have it. Tossing some random numbers...@900 yds, your bullet falls 250 moa. @ 1k, it drops 275. You have a diffrence of 25 moa. Adjust your scope 2.5 moa and its in the park.
 
#50
Re: Need help counting clicks.

I actually did shoot and hit the gongs all the way out to 1200 yds. There were two ex-snipres that own the range and they "walked" my shots past 900 yds. They could see the dust fly for most of the shots. They would tell me that I was low and I would crank the turret without counting the clicks and didn't write any numbers down either. I wish I had, but I never thought I would shoot even out to 1000 yards since there wasn't any place within 4 or more hours from where I live. Now there is one about 1.5 hours away and I want to give it a try. The problem is that they do not have practice time at 1000 yds. only on the other part of the range which is only about 5 or 600 yds.

I wanted to figure if I could count the clicks to get me on the trajectory at 200 yds. so I could get on paper at 1000. I have no place to sight in at 1000 except if I travel and need a motel room just to practice. My buddy down the street shot his first 1000 yd. match there and came in second place, but I think I can beat him if I can dope the wind good enough. He shoots his own wild cat which is a .264 win mag that is very "improved". Mine is a 6mm Norma BR. which shoots 105 gr. Berger VLDs like a 6 PPC. My best 5 shot group at 100 was .084" and I have shot many 5 shot groups in the low .3"s at 200 yds.

Anyway I'm planning to give it a try.

Thanks for all the help I have gotten here,

40gt
 
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