Need Help Selecting an 18" DMR Barrel

[Jethatsme]

Hey there hide members. I am finalizing the selection process for a new barrel that I am looking to install on an 18" DMR Set-up. I would consider my shooting skill level to be mid tier to semi advanced in terms of marksmanship fundamentals and ability to put together solid groups at 100 yards as well as ring steel at 1,000. That being said, I have never got into the technical details surrounding the hobby. I also do not reload.

In terms of use, 95% of the time I will be at the range lying in either a prone position or bench rest. I will take the occasional 3-day weekend marksmanship course out in the mountain where we are shooting from difference vantage point, but typically I will be bringing one of my bolt guns.

I will be shooting factory loads of either 69 Gr FGMM Sierrra MKHP or 60 Gr VMAX.

My goal is maximum accuracy with a marginal consideration for weight. I am fine fluting a bull barrel if it does not compromise performance.

Before listing the difference barrels, I will say that is looks like they all have the same characteristics (416R, Button Rifled, 223 Wylde etc.).

Some questions:

1) Does the lands really make a difference when it comes to accuracy?
2) Does the Size of the Gas port affect my accuracy? If so, how?
3) What Gas Block Length should be used for an 18" Barrel? Mid Length or Riffle?


Barrels: All 18".. Price are pretty much the same between $300-$400

i) Wilson Combat Match Grade Urban Sniper 1-8 Twist. Fluted $325
-Button Rifled
-6 Land Grooves
-.938 Gas Block
-1/8 Twist
-416R
- Weight 2.37 Lbs
ii) Black Hole Weaponry SPR Countour $310
-Button Rifled
-3 Land Polygontal (Apparently Proprietary)
-.75 Gas Block
-1/8 Twist
-416R Boss rated (Not sure what that means but they also said proprietary
- Weight 2.55 Lbs
lll) White Oak Armament .223 Varmint Barrel fluted $365
-Button Rifled
-6 Land Grooves
-.936 Gas Block
-1/8 Twist
-416R
- Weight 1.85 Lbs after fluting
iv) Rainier Arms Ultra Match Mod2 .223 SPR $383
-Button Rifled
-4 Land Grooves
-.8 Gas Block
-1/7.5 Twist
-416R
- Weight 2 Lbs



I had a Bear claw 1/8 Twist 223 Wylde 416R Stainless Flutedl which I got for about $125 and had the following specs. It was "Pretty good" 1-1.25 MOA

-.75 Gas Block
-1/8 Twist
-416R
- Weight 3 Lbs

 

[padom]

I can say both the Ultramatch and WOA both shoot lights out. Own both.. no experience with the others.

 

[kingzero]

A buddy has an 18" Wilson barrel and it consistently prints under MOA.

 

[Steel head]

Really like my ultra match SPP barrel.

 

[bogeybrown]

Another vote for WOA, if someone has gotten a dud from them I've missed the thread.

 

[Jethatsme]

Thank guys. Another question.

Will something like a Lilja or Shillen Barrell which are in the $500-$700 range print noticeable tighter groups (Assuming I do my part), than those above. The WOA, Ranier, and Wilson are already pretty Primo.... Them again once I look a leap from buying a vortex Razor Genll Scope to a S&B 3-20 and Tangent Theta 3-15, I realized there was a different league.

 

[bogeybrown]

Thank guys. Another question.

Will something like a Lilja or Shillen Barrell which are in the $500-$700 range print noticeable tighter groups (Assuming I do my part), than those above. The WOA, Ranier, and Wilson are already pretty Primo.... Them again once I look a leap from buying a vortex Razor Genll Scope to a S&B 3-20 and Tangent Theta 3-15, I realized there was a different league.

I'm not good enough to see a difference between WOA and Lilja/Shillen, and owning a Gen II Razor along with some $3.5-4k optics, unless weight is truly an issue I don't see ever paying more than the Razor again. In fact, I may sell off my Mk8 and throw some more Bushnells or Razors on rifles and still come out ahead.

Thats in no way even coming close to dumping on S&B or TT, my perspective has just just changed on where I'm really seeing the difference in $ vs results. It used to be "necessary" to spend that kind of money for a great scope. IMHO it just isn't the case anymore

 

[Jethatsme]

I'm not good enough to see a difference between WOA and Lilja/Shillen, and owning a Gen II Razor along with some $3.5-4k optics, unless weight is truly an issue I don't see ever paying more than the Razor again. In fact, I may sell off my Mk8 and throw some more Bushnells or Razors on rifles and still come out ahead.

Thats in no way even coming close to dumping on S&B or TT, my perspective has just just changed on where I'm really seeing the difference in $ vs results. It used to be "necessary" to spend that kind of money for a great scope. IMHO it just isn't the case anymore

I can agree with that logic to some extent. In terms of the question "will the extra $1k or 2k for this XYZ optic be the difference between a hit and miss practically speaking", I believe in 99% of the cases, the answer is no. To that extent, IMO there is a difference in the mechanical "craftsmanship" and optical clarity that people appreciate in some of the top dollar scopes. TTs turrent mechanism or S&Bs MTC turrets, Mark8s tank like aethetics etc etc. I mean IMO the decision to jump up in price boils more towards a pride of ownership rationale rather than the question alluded to above. Perhaps some Mil or LEOs will opt for certain products due to their unquestioned resume and relibility in some of toughest conflict zones around the world. For most of us, we simply build our range toys to our liking and continue shooting.

Asit relates to the barrel, if someone has experience with a Lilja/Criterion vs some of the options mentioned above and can corroberate a definitive accuracy difference using match grade factory ammo, I would like to know as it might effect my purchase decision.

 

[padom]

The Ultramatch is a Shillen barrel and shoots lights out. The WOA is a Wilson blank.

The next step up would be to have a Krieger or Bartlein spun up but I don't think mine shoots any better than me Ultramatch (shillen) barrel

 

[David4570]

Another vote for Wilson.

Although I've only bought one barrel for a 300 BO build, I am not new to quality firearms and parts. That being said, I was very impressed with the Wilson 8" barrel I used for my build. They claimed it was hand lapped but I didn't expect they spent much time on that process UNTIL I got a good look down that barrel. WOW, I had never seen such a mirrored finish in a barrel before and It seems to shoot much better than me. It shoots very clean.

Wilson also has good customer service/warranty. I originally bought their simple gas block and after some use called to say I wanted to see if they would take it back in exchange for the adjustable GB they sold so I could tune this BO for sub and super use, with and without a can. They said yes, but I also wanted to see if a simple change of recoil spring would give me the right balance. I installed a Wolff extra power spring behind an H2 buffer and that seems to have done the trick.

I prefer a simple GB if that works because I have read the adjustable ones need cleaning and attention. I followed the KISS principal and am fully satisfied.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

You can't go wrong with a single one of your options, all are great barrels from great companies. You could even toss some others in the mix to further confuse yourself and still not make a bad decision. For me it would come down to if I have a preference of one manufacturer over the others, if there's one I simply wanted to try out and/or best pricing/availability at the time.

I'd go a little different route on profile though. I've never seen a need for anything heavier than a standard SPR profile. I've had the chunky ones and have never noticed any difference other than I'm carrying more weight.

 

[Steel head]

I'd go a little different route on profile though. I've never seen a need for anything heavier than a standard SPR profile. I've had the chunky ones and have never noticed any difference other than I'm carrying more weight.

I agree, I'd never go heavier than a SPR profile.






Im not sure about now but my ultramatch barrel is a Shilen 4 grove ratchet rifled blank done by someone who knows what they're doing.
It is machined very nicely!

 

[Jethatsme]

I'd go a little different route on profile though. I've never seen a need for anything heavier than a standard SPR profile. I've had the chunky ones and have never noticed any difference other than I'm carrying more weight.

Good thought. The sales rep at WOA mentioned that every barrel was the same quality and accuracy and that the contour was more of a personal preference. I guess one could say that a heavy barrel will sustain accuracy throughout a larger round count simply due to the longer heat up time but I'm never putting more than 100-150 rounds down range in an AR unless I'm dumping mags with a shorter CQB setup

thanks for the note.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I guess one could say that a heavy barrel will sustain accuracy throughout a larger round count simply due to the longer heat up time but I'm never putting more than 100-150 rounds down range in an AR unless I'm dumping mags with a shorter CQB setup

To some degree yes, but there are some considerations. A properly stress relieved barrel should not produce much or any detectable shift from sustained fire (within reason) but metal is always going to expand somewhat when heated, and the shorter and thicker a barrel is, the stiffer it will be. The question is when do you reach diminished value? Or based on your application would you ever see any difference in performance at all?

My experience has been that once you reach a middle ground the individual barrel has a far greater possibility in variation than anyone could definitively say that another option of mass and stiffness could impact.

I don't notice an overall difference and even if I did there would still be a trade off between weight/performance.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Rifle length gas on an 18" for sure. I don't even want a mid on my 16" barrels any more.

 

[Potss]

A Lothar Walther 18in rifle gas: http://www.customar15.net/product/lothar-walther-223-wylde-match-grade-barrel-life-hd/

You won't find better in your price range, and for your needs.

 

[FishDr]

I have had both a Wilson, and recently acquired a WOA 18" SPR. Both shoot very well. On occasion the WOA will go on sale at Brownells for a good discount - thats where i picked up mine.

 

[mpk1996]

The black hole barrel will be a little faster due to the rifling. That will help out with an 18" barrel, especially with factory loads and wanting to shoot to distance. The one I have shoots great.

I ended up picking up a 20" Krieger, which suited my needs a little better. But the BHW barrel shot well for sure

 

[dleeds]

DPMS Mini- SASS

Mine was the first AR I ever built, and it is stupid accurate. If I gave you specifics, half the forum would jump down my throat demanding proof, but this past week I shot 200 yard groups, and with the 80 grain Nosler Custom Comp, 24.7g of 2000MR, I can shoot less than 1/4 MOA.