Nemo Omen

[Frank14333]

I purchased the Nemo Omen Watchman, July 2020, to get into competition shooting and reaching out past 1000 yards.
From the first time I shot this firearm it would not feed. 4 different factory loads, and handloading at least 20 different loads with Hodgdon H1000 and H483, bullet weights from 175 to 220.
Cases get jammed in the barrel, it blows primers, and breaks the foot off 1 out of 10 of the cases.
Nemo ignores my emails and phone messages. I have been trying to get a hold of Nemo since August 2020. Finally last week, May 17th 2021 I was contacted, and after a few emails back and forth with the issues I was told they would bring it in for the engineers to look at, but it could be at my expense. Now as of May 24th Nemo will not acknowledge my emails or phone calls once again.
Any advice would be appreciated. This gun is unusable as it sits.

 

[rpoL98]

what caliber? 308? because Nemo has some larger-than-308 guns.
sounds like might be too much gas. does it have an adjustable gas block? or means to throttle the gas flow?

 

[TangoSierra916]

have you tried messaging them or posting on their social media sites? Thats crazy the rifle is acting that way and more shocking is the CS from NEMO. I'd try their social media and see what happens.

@rpoL98 - The OP can confirm but I think the Omen only comes in 300Wm but there is a 2.0 and 3.0 that have varying specs/components including the gas block design, but I believe all Nemo Omens have an adjustable gas block.

 

[Frank14333]

Yes it is a 300 win mag. Adjustable gas block, setting 1 and 2 for suppressed 3 and 4 non suppressed.
On 3 it will not even eject half, on 4 most eject, half don't feed next round.

 

[Northman623]

Well first start with some pic's of the damage to the brass. Next completely tear it down and inspect, pay close attention to the gas system. Look for signs of leaking gas. Either from the gas block or the tube. Closely inspect the chamber for burrs. Last how much are you lubing and what's your round count. BTW cool gun. Just have to get it running.

 

[Frank14333]

It would be a great gun if it ran. This has been a problem from the first round. I have broken it down after every use and can see nothing obvious. I will get some pics of brass.

 

[bigjake83]

You're definitely not the first person to have customer service issues with Nemo or should I say SI Defense or I mean Falkor....

Basically at one point all of these dickheads were on the same team, but the infighting cause them to split up producing products that are almost identical to each other with just slight variations and they all seem to have lousy customer service. I've personally dealt with falkor and would never recommend or own any of their products again.

 

[Northman623]

What is your round count? How much are you lubing and what are you using?

 

[Frank14333]

200 rounds.
Using the lube they sent with the firearm. Just a thin coating.

 

[brianf]

like suggested above, blast them on social media...theyll have to answer

its a shame that social media is needed but if they did their job and answered the phone, you would not have to resort to it

 

[Frank14333]

I really hate having to use threats of bad reviews, but this has been incredibly frustrating. I accept mistakes and flaws but, get on it. I would have given them rave reviews had they addressed this last August when I contacted them the first time.
Also I have no social media, no Facebook or Instagram. But I do consider doing a YouTube video.

 

[kl3309]

Sell it.

 

[Frank14333]

Morally I could not sell this to someone knowing it has a major flaw.

 

[Northman623]

Ok , it's a semi auto. It needs a lot of lube. Grab a bottle of CLP and blast that bolt so it's dripping . When I have competed with a semi in prs type events I always over lube at the beginning of the day. But guess what never had a malfunction during a stage. Blast it shake out the excess and shoot. Then we can talk.

 

[357Max]

Morally I could not sell this to someone knowing it has a major flaw.

If it was sold at the right price I'm sure someone would be happy. I always have my eye out for projects.

That's pretty lame that a new gun especially one that costs what these do won't run as advertised.

Which model do you have? 3.0 with 22" barrel? How long is the gas system rifle or rifle + 1 or 2"

I noticed on their sight they sell 1 piece gas rings. If that's what it shipped with I'd pull it, trash it, & replace with a 3 piece ring set.
Does it lock open on last round or if only 1 round is loaded with gas full open?

 

[Frank14333]

I have the Watchman with the 24" barrel.
Not sure the length of the gas system, it has 4 settings.
Usually does not lock open. Seems to barely eject the case, and blows out about 30% of the primers.

 

[mtrmn]

I have a .308 PSA kit gun that did a lot of that same crap. Checked the headspace and it would close on a no-go gage easily. Full gas, full power loads and it ejected sometimes, locked open on last round maybe 20% of the time, blew a primer or 2,etc. I put a Faxon pencil bbl on it to save weight and figured that would fix the headspace problem too but no, didn't fix nothin'. Bought a Lantac bolt and it all acts like there was never anything wrong. Headspace is good, I can actually adjust the gas with predictable results. All that to say maybe you need to check headspace. And maybe check to see what diameter the gas port in the bbl is drilled to.

 

[357Max]

Agree with @mtrmn

The blown primers has me questioning loose head space. If I were in your shoes I'd become the squeakiest wheel they ever met til they made it right.

Zero $ check you could try.
If your handy (you shouldn't have to be for 6K) you could remove the firing pin. add 1 layer of scotch tape at a time to the back of a quality factory loaded round. Trim the tape off tight to the rim with an exacto knife. Do this till the bolt no longer will close, then pull off the tape and measure total thickness or figure .002 per. If over 4 pc's or .008 I'd say your into loose head space territory.

Better yet if you have a friend with a 300WM head space gauges, check it. FYI on AR's you'll need to remove the ejector button + spring to get the best reading.

 

[mtrmn]

Also, if you remove the gas block to measure the gas port, measure the length of your gas tube and write it down. 1/8" too short or long can make a big difference. If you wind up having to troubleshoot/fix this yourself (and it sounds like you will) this kind of info will be very informative to someone. Once headspace is determined and corrected, you'll be moving on to other measurements. The weight of your BCG and buffer. The inside depth of your buffer tube. The relaxed length, number of coils and wire diameter of the buffer spring. This can go on and on. I CAN'T TELL YOU WHAT ANY OF THIS SHOULD BE, especially on a 300WM, but there are people who can. Heavybuffers.com can most likely get you on the right track with the proper buffer weights and springs. But you gotta take it one step at a time, starting with that headspace.

Gotta add this, when you shoot it make sure the chamber is totally dry-no oil. Lots of oil in the BCG though.

 

[Frank14333]

 

[Frank14333]

Maybe Nemo monitors this forum, suddenly they sent me a shipping label.
The pics are of brand new brass. Loaded with 74gn H1000 230 gr Sierra Match King. Not one ejected.

 

[bigjake83]

Those loads are way too hot, what does box ammo do?

 

[bigjake83]

You can't run anywhere near Max loads on semi autos they don't handle the pressure. If you get those same results was store-bought ammo then I would say you definitely have a problem, but if that's just with your reloads then you are the problem.

 

[slowworm]

What he said. You are at the Sierra bullets max load for that round, and it is way too hot for that rifle,brass,primer & bullet combo.

You clearly haven’t a clue what you are doing behind a reloading press.

 

[Frank14333]

Winchester Bonded PHP 150gn. Hornady Match ELD 195gn and Federal 175gn.

They suggest Federal 190gn. 2700 ft which is the same as the 74gn H1000

None of these feed. Most jam without even seating the bolt.

 

[Frank14333]

Thank you slowworm. But 71gn worked up to 74gn with not a single round ejecting brass.

 

[bigjake83]

Winchester Bonded PHP 150gn. Hornady Match ELD 195gn and Federal 175gn.

They suggest Federal 190gn. 2700 ft which is the same as the 74gn H1000

None of these feed. Most jam without even seating the bolt.

How does it perform with Virgin brass?

 

[Frank14333]

At least it seats virgin brass better. Some factory loads will not seat. Have had to do full resizing on all used brass.

 

[bigjake83]

Thank you slowworm. But 71gn worked up to 74gn with not a single round ejecting brass.

Semi-autos don't work that way! At 71grns you were probably already over pressure, you should have started at 68grns.

There's something else that you need to consider is your COAL, there's a possibility you could be jamming and causing overpressure.

Another issue which most people don't take into consideration when reloading for semi autos is that when you chamber a round the bullet has a tendency to slide forward due to the inertia of the bolt slamming it into the chamber, so if your neck tension is not correct that will happen. Always take a few of your loaded rounds and chamber them in a safe area then extract them to see if the bullet has moved forward upon chambering.

 

[bigjake83]

At least it seats virgin brass better. Some factory loads will not seat. Have had to do full resizing on all used brass.

It sounds like you should be running a small base resizing die.

I'm sure you're complaint about lack of customer service and communication is legitimate that I have no doubt because I have heard similar complaints. But the picture is starting to come into full focus that this may be the Indian and not the arrow.

As you stated above you now have a shipping label, so there's really nothing further to debate here. Hope it works out for you.

 

[Frank14333]

bigjake83
Thank you.
I really appreciate your constructive help. I am unsure why it won't feed factory loads either. I did not want to do reloading since I have 3000 rounds of factory loads. I have been loading to match the 2700 ft that is in the manual.

 

[nn8734]

At least it seats virgin brass better. Some factory loads will not seat. Have had to do full resizing on all used brass.

It’s best to full length size used brass for any semi auto rifle. Factory loads not fully chambering is unusual, especially if it was happening across all of the different ones you tried.

Maybe Nemo monitors this forum, suddenly they sent me a shipping label.
The pics are of brand new brass. Loaded with 74gn H1000 230 gr Sierra Match King. Not one ejected.

FWIW, my 300 win mag load with 220s/H1000/Fed215M and Fed brass was 74.4g in a mk13 mod 5 with the mk248 mod 1 chamber (designed to handle much higher pressures than SAAMI chambers) so your 74g with a 230g bullet is smoking hot (Selma Hayek in her prime-hot) this semi auto . Agree with @bigjake83 that 68-69g may have been a better starting point.

Anyway, you got the shipping label which is the main thing you needed to accomplish…No need for anymore handwringing, just send it back and let them fix or replace it. Hopefully they can get it turned around in a reasonable amount of time for you.

 

[bigjake83]

bigjake83
Thank you.
I really appreciate your constructive help. I am unsure why it won't feed factory loads either. I did not want to do reloading since I have 3000 rounds of factory loads. I have been loading to match the 2700 ft that is in the manual.

That manual and the loads there in it are designed to be shot out of a 24" BOLT Action Rifle... There's a good chance that you will never reach that 2,700FPS with HANDLOADS using the 230gr SMK.

 

[mtrmn]

The damage in your pics is much worse than I visualized from the description. And the difficulty feeding throws another wrench in the gears. Glad you got some response from Nemo.
I found very early in my reloading venture that the listed velocity and my real life results are rarely even close. I no longer pay the listed velocity figures any attention other than a ballpark estimate of what's considered a normal range for any given caliber.

 

[Frank14333]

The damage also confuses me.
I have gone through my reloading manuals and the starting loads are all 70.6 to 71. What manuals are you guys using that give 68gn?

 

[nn8734]

The damage also confuses me.
I have gone through my reloading manuals and the starting loads are all 70.6 to 71. What manuals are you guys using that give 68gn?

Again, an overwhelming majority of the data in reloading manuals was gathered using bolt guns. Gas guns have a lot less tolerance for pressure thus require lower starting charges all things equal. Especially magnum gas guns, which are a while different animal anyway.

Have you previously reloaded for any other semi auto large frame rifle?

 

[Frank14333]

Only reloaded for my 45 and my bolt action 300 win mag.
I had no idea the manuals would not take into account semi-auto.
At least the guy who made me aware of it told me "You clearly haven’t a clue what you are doing behind a reloading press"
No info on where to get the info to improve, but a good quote all the same.

 

[nn8734]

I believe manuals provide information on each test gun that was used to gather the data. There are a handful of cartridges where published load data was gathered using a semi auto but if memory serves me correctly, they are small frame stuff like 5.56 Nato, 6.8spc and like kind stuff.

honestly, I’d not do anything more with it until it comes back from Nemo either repaired or replaced. Then re-start load development at either 67 or 68 grains if using a 230g smk. Also watch shoulder bump…I like .003-.004 chamber clearance for semi autos.

 

[slowworm]

Only reloaded for my 45 and my bolt action 300 win mag.
I had no idea the manuals would not take into account semi-auto.
At least the guy who made me aware of it told me "You clearly haven’t a clue what you are doing behind a reloading press"
No info on where to get the info to improve, but a good quote all the same.

That was me, and I was probably a bit harsh.

The rule of thumb for starting loads is 10% less than max. so 74 - 7.4 = 66.6 (). That's where the 67 came from.

Secondly you cannot load for FPS from a manual. Some barrels are fast and some slow. You need to load for your gun and only your gun. You will get what you get out of it. Get a labradar or magnetospeed if you need to know what the barrel is doing. You may well hit pressure signs before the book max. It's voodoo and it's governed by all sorts of things like chamber slop, throat depth, headspace, how you size your brass, what sign of the zodiac the Sun is in etc.

Lastly you would have been showing pressure signs way before 74 grains. There are loads of posts here on pressure signs, so use the search function. Once you start getting swipe marks & flattened primers you've gone to far. If you start blowing primers STOP! Once might be a bad pocket. Twice in the same string is an immediate issue. Find out why (Headspace, hot load, bullet tension issues, gun out of spec, etc.)

Even in a gas gun at the starting load you should still at least half decent extraction. You might get the odd stove pipe and extraction may be weak, but it should still extract most of the time. If it doesn't then that points to other issues. I've run some pretty anemic loads in the AR platform with (almost) no issues.

 

[Frank14333]

I truly appreciate all this advice.
The gun just went out to the factory today and I hope to see it back soon.
I will remember the drop by 10% rule for the gas gun. It was really out of frustration with the factory loads not feeding that got me to start reloading just to get it to feed.
Now I need to get an education on how the gas system works.
Thank you all with the advice.

 

[bigjake83]

It's voodoo and it's governed by all sorts of things like chamber slop, throat depth, headspace, how you size your brass, what sign of the zodiac the Sun is in etc.

Best way to Sum up Semi Auto reloading..lol

 

[RobbinsHGray]

Does JP make a similar rifle?

 

[Jigstick]

I can’t even imagine the over gassing if you’ve been shooting those hot loads suppressed

 

[b6graham]

Does JP make a similar rifle?

No.

 

[mtrmn]

When a new gun won't easily chamber factory ammo, and multiple factory loads at that, there's something wrong with that gun. After the gun is fixed so it does chamber factory ammo, check the factory ammo for pressure signs. Any factory built gun should reasonably handle factory ammo unless it comes with a disclaimer stating otherwise. On a gas gun I personally would stay at midrange on the bullet weight until the gun demonstrates the ability to function properly. THEN try some reloads at the -10% starting load.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Does JP make a similar rifle?

JP is too smart to get into the magnum gas gun scene.

 

[DavidAR10]

Those loads are way too hot, what does box ammo do?

He's two (2) whole grains below Hodgdon's max load.
Are you saying anyone's 300 WM gasser should be @ 70gr max with H1000?

Asking for a guy that giggles in DRD Kivaari®.

 

[Frank14333]

They are saying more like 67-68gn.

 

[White Death]

Nemo specifically only recommends 190gr federal gold medal match or black hills ammo. They don't recommend anything else and the gas blocks can be tricky with anything else.
I have a falkor petra which is similar and I never had a problem but only use federal gold medal.

 

[bigjake83]

He's two (2) whole grains below Hodgdon's max load.
Are you saying anyone's 300 WM gasser should be @ 70gr max with H1000?

Asking for a guy that giggles in DRD Kivaari®.

That's a 338 Lap Mag, not a 300 WM

And I'm not saying what anybody's "Max load" should be.

What I am saying is that when doing load development for a semi-auto, especially a 300 WM you should start two full grains under the lowest published load which should be around 68 grains.