Wanted to see if anyone knows about or has any updates on the new 700 SA actions that are supposed to be hitting the market soon. Had heard of something from both L3i and Elemental Industries but seems they are both delayed. They both seemed promising and am debating on whether to start a new build or wait for something new.
New .22 actions still coming?
- Thread starter Macirsh
- Start date
The L3I is still happening. Just crazy how much work bringing a firearm to market has been! The barrels have been sorted (CZ barrels are proof) and the first batch of production actions is underway.
We got a little sidetracked due to bringing the new chassis on board at the time time, the goal is to offer a complete comp ready rifle along with the barreled actions.
We got a little sidetracked due to bringing the new chassis on board at the time time, the goal is to offer a complete comp ready rifle along with the barreled actions.
Take your time and do it right, I am looking forward to seeing your results. From the post you have made that I have seen it looks to me that you guys are on the right track.
@Thesepaperwings I completely agree with @jbell. Rushing a product to market won’t help. Taking your time to develop a quality product will always pay dividends. Look forward to getting behind one.
Heard about it but haven't seen any updates, I know L3I should have their stinger out soon. Kauger arms is in the works from what they said at shot shot and Mac brothers are working on their own as well.
Yeah ,,,,,Kauger told me two and a half years ago they were about to release it , then last fall they told me it got out on the back burner but they were going to work on it again , we will see
The new owners of Stiller promised one , advertised one , told people about one , then sold off the old stock they had and shelved the project , said they were not going to do it
elemental industries , is that a 40x clone ? I need to look that one up
The new owners of Stiller promised one , advertised one , told people about one , then sold off the old stock they had and shelved the project , said they were not going to do it
elemental industries , is that a 40x clone ? I need to look that one up
We (L3I) planned on having ours out by now but honestly it just took longer than we thought lol. In the mean time we had the barrels and the chassis catch up to the action so at least now we'll have all three
I must ask, What is the problem with current actions?
Actions from 1950 are still shooting with the current latest and greatest. Not much room for improvement. Rimfire issues are largely ammunition based. And it’s a design flaw that cannot be corrected.
Actions from 1950 are still shooting with the current latest and greatest. Not much room for improvement. Rimfire issues are largely ammunition based. And it’s a design flaw that cannot be corrected.
Much smoother bolt function and better ejection. An easy 60* bolt throw requires more attention to cam engaging machining.
Good question, Some of The top shooters in NRL/PRS are running Vudoos in both 90 and 360 with excellent results, others run a Rim X with great results. There is no perfect action that is the best. Find a system you like and LEARN it then perfect it then focus on you the shooter. People want to buy accomplishments and performance instead of learning and earning it.
I bought 4 Vudoo rifles and none of them shot this well even after sending all of them in for lot testing of top tier ammo.
Not being critical of Vudoo at all. They all shot well. Just not as accurate as some older rifles. Probably accurate enough.
I simply think rimfire accuracy has little room for improvement. With no control over ammo we are about as far as we can go.
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RTH1800 makes a very good point about older rifles. It's not necessary to have the newest or most popular model to get good results.
While new rifles may have more appeal for many, there are older rifles that shoot very well. Of course with any rifle, newer or older, it's always about the ammo. No rifle, new or old, whatever the make, will outshoot the ammo its given.
Below are some 100 yard ten shot groups with a rifle that's now 52 years old.
First a 100 yard target showing four consecutive ten-shot groups. The four group average is just under .700" center-to-center.
Some 100 yard ten-shot groups measured outside-to-outside.
While new rifles may have more appeal for many, there are older rifles that shoot very well. Of course with any rifle, newer or older, it's always about the ammo. No rifle, new or old, whatever the make, will outshoot the ammo its given.
Below are some 100 yard ten shot groups with a rifle that's now 52 years old.
First a 100 yard target showing four consecutive ten-shot groups. The four group average is just under .700" center-to-center.
Some 100 yard ten-shot groups measured outside-to-outside.
A lot of rifles shoot great just not in PRS off of barricades. It's the way we use the rifle that makes the difference. Before we started making PRS specific rifles back in 2020 there was no such thing as a PRS rifle. The accuracy is there if the proper components and process are used,
I chose my hunting rifle on several criteria. Accuracy with more than one lot of ammo was paramount. I did not want a picky rifle.
Another was ability to hold point of impact day to day and from all positions. Offhand, over knees, sitting and prone with and without sling, off bench, rested along side tree with hand supporting, aver log with hand supporting etc.
The rifle I selected from several dozen outperformed every other one in every way tested. Personally I think it’s one in a thousand. (Of course I have not tested 1000)
Targets shot to verify POI Sitting resting over knees with back against a tree. 50, 100 and 200 yards. Not benchrest or prone accuracy but good enough for sitting.
Dots are 1/2” and 2”. Scope is 6X
Another was ability to hold point of impact day to day and from all positions. Offhand, over knees, sitting and prone with and without sling, off bench, rested along side tree with hand supporting, aver log with hand supporting etc.
The rifle I selected from several dozen outperformed every other one in every way tested. Personally I think it’s one in a thousand. (Of course I have not tested 1000)
Dots are 1/2” and 2”. Scope is 6X
Job security I suppose. We're always creating solutions then looking for the problems.
Lefty here. I've just always shot right-handed bolt guns. Works pretty well for me, being able to keep my grip intact and working the bolt with my right hand!
I’ve never had a right handed bolt gun hinder my ability to compete and I grew up shooting them so I see no reason to change. Plus from a resale and aftermarket support standpoint, right hand is always favorable.
Hang with them in what regard? Accuracy? Sure, but that's not the only consideration when choosing an action. You have to consider the use case. These new actions are designed for PRS style shooting that older actions just aren't ideal for.
They aren't a REM 700 pattern (or other common standard) that chassis manufacturers make. That also means you're probably stuck with the factory trigger and mags. They aren't pre-fit capable and while the factory barrels are probably plenty accurate, a pencil barrel just doesn't ballance well in a chassis gun. They weren't designed to be ran hard and fast for high volume. They may tolerate it for a short while but, things break and wear excessively (extractors, bolt handles, bolt heads, raceways). They also don't come with picatinny rails with varying cant options. When pushing a .22 beyond 200 yards or so, you need some serious cant or you simply run out of scope travel.
Now what's wrong with the current production PRS style actions? Thinking of the RimX and Vudoo here....Price! The L3i action is supposed to be a "affordable" option that doesn't sacrifice quality or features. The other big problem is availability. Lead times for both are terrible; economics 101 tells us that having more actions available should help this problem. They also have their own physical problems. The RimX has fixed extractors, which creates its own set of problems. RimX also recently has some metallurgy problems causing galling of the lugs. Vudoo's aren't prefit capable.
So there's still room for improvement and even after these new actions make their way into the world, I'm sure there will still be room for improvement. Who knows, these current action might be just as ill suited for the next fad in competition rimfire shooting as 1950s actions are for PRS.
See I'm just the opposite I absolutely hate it but that's fine. I don't like having to reposition every time to run the bolt I shoot and I just want to work the action with my left hand and keep my hand on my scope
Now shooting off the bench I have no problem with the right handed action as long as the stock fits me. I have a real weakness right now for that CZ 457 in that manners stock that's right handed I'm trying everything I can not to buy one. But for positional I prefer a left-handed action not to say that I haven't ran right handed action but if I had the choice it would be a left-handed one
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I shouldn't say it works better for me because I have honestly never tried a left-handed bolt gun. I do dislike the fact that I come off target when cycling the bolt. I honestly need to try it!
Well I was like you growing up my dad was right handed so all I had was right handed bolt actions and once I got in college and could afford my own guns I bought my first left-handed savage and have pretty much shot strictly left-handed guns since then. Lol
What the hell was I shooting in matches from 2017-2020 then? lol
Seriously though the straight contour barrels did start hitting around then and then started taking off around 2022 or so but plenty of PRS specific rifles in the early days. Here’s 2017 in a match.Not sure why everyone is so worried about prefits on a Rimfire though. Yes on a centerfire where you burn a barrel out in 2-3000 rounds but in a Rimfire where you will shoot over 100,000 rounds and spend over $20,000 in ammo to even be close to burning it out it’s not as big of a deal at least for me.
Prefits are nice because not everyone wants the factory offerings and Vudoo doesn't sell repeater actions without a barrel. Gunsmiths are expensive and take way too long. I can pick up a steel Proof RimX prefit for $649 without any kind of sale/discount; meanwhile DI precision is charging $673 just for labor! Now they're on the high end of smithing services but, even at cheaper smiths it's a tough sell when prefits are so much cheaper. There's an argument to be made for quality and all that but, that's a whole other can of worms.What the hell was I shooting in matches from 2017-2020 then? lol
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Not sure why everyone is so worried about prefits on a Rimfire though. Yes on a centerfire where you burn a barrel out in 2-3000 rounds but in a Rimfire where you will shoot over 100,000 rounds and spend over $20,000 in ammo to even be close to burning it out it’s not as big of a deal at least for me.
An action not being prefit capable also means any take off barrel is nearly worthless. As you mentioned a take of barrel is almost certainly no where near the end of life, but yet the used price on a Vuddo take off is pennies on the dollar compared to what you would have paid new for it. I've seen them go as little as $100 here the PX.
I currently wishing my Vudoo was prefit capable so I don't have to sell a kidney to swap my MTU barrel for a straight profile.
I can see that if you wanted to upgrade your current rifle with a new contour but even then yes it will be more money in the short term but you will spend 20 times that on ammo to burn it out. To me personally in a Rimfire the ability to get a prefit is not a big deal.
Also that barrel that was taken off your rifle that wasn’t shot out can be kept and used by you later. I kept my 18” Kukri in the pic above when I swapped out the barrel for a heavier contour as I knew it wasn’t burnt out and I could use it down the road if I wanted.
Less money in the short term is still less money in the long term. The ammo cost is fixed regardless of how much I spend on a barrel. If I don't have to spend the extra money to get a barrel that I'm happy with, why would I spend the money?
I could keep it, but it doesn't have much value to me. Now if my Vudoo had a lightweight pencil profile or was carbon, I would definitely keep it and use it when I didn't want to pack around a 24lb rifle lol.
What logic? If the prefit accuracy is good enough, then why spend the extra money? I know everyone wants a laser beam, hammer of a barrel but, sometimes you just have to accept that it's not worth the extra money and you don't actually need it.
Even if an action is pre-fit capable, there's nothing stopping you from having a smith spin up a barrel. There's even the potential of saving money because the smith doesn't need you to ship your action to them to do it. All the prefit capable means is that the action is made to a standard with enough accuracy that taking measurements of the action itself is not needed. What's so bad about that?
That's the beauty of prefit capable actions, you can have both. You can get a prefit barrel if it serves your needs or you can spend the money with a smith to eke out every last drop of potential accuracy. It's not even about the money, why would anyone not want that option?I never use good enough in the same sentence with accuracy.
You focus on money as I focus on accuracy results.
Prefits are for you!
We individually made stuff work back then. A 100-yard shot was a long poke with big targets. Now, if you do your part, you can buy a barreled action, chassis, trigger, and your choice of optics and go straight to the podium.What the hell was I shooting in matches from 2017-2020 then? lol
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Not sure why everyone is so worried about prefits on a Rimfire though. Yes on a centerfire where you burn a barrel out in 2-3000 rounds but in a Rimfire where you will shoot over 100,000 rounds and spend over $20,000 in ammo to even be close to burning it out it’s not as big of a deal at least for me.
For actual PRS, I wouldn't bother with anything under 7 lbs and 1.20 x 24...and even that won't auto-balance in any modern chassis. So you have a dilemma now that PRS match rifles are now one-trick ponies and very expensive.
For basic club shooting, prone/bench, plinking, varmits, walkabout etc...you'd be way better off with a .75, .87 or .90 straight taper. And yet it makes zero sense to but a second barrel if the resale value/ ROI on the second barrel is -90% of investment.
Yeah that’s the way to go now so people can just buy it that way and go. Probably never have to rebarrel. I only kept my original barrel in the pic above for if I ever wanted to swap my 1.2” to something lighter. It’s all set for my action.
Rubicon I get being able to use a prefit as I use them on the center fire but if you buy the rifle correct for the use the first time it’s really a non issue with the Rimfire barrel life.
We were shooting 350+ at that match in the pic. I had that rifle accurately to 550 yards. Now the game has turned into the 22+ weight rifles and that’s fine as I have one now too but you aren’t buying a podium spot. lol
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