New 6.5 x 47 Tactical Gun Build, where to spend $

[JustEric]

I plan to build a 6.5 x 47 tactical gun. I don’t have unlimited pockets so I want to make sure I spend my hard earned cash on the parts that make a difference. Oh, I would like the gun to hold sub ½ MOA while shooting 100+ rounds a day.

Stock, McMillan A5.
Trigger, Jewel.
Action, not sure but maybe up to a Surgeon.
Barrel, not sure but a top notch barrel
I plan on buying all the parts and then giving them to a very good gunsmith to build the gun. He will do all the standard accuracy tuning things (bed, true the bolt…).

About the action, I hear people say the Remington 700 action will do the job and others say to buy the best action you can afford. Is there a relationship to the amount of money you spend on an action and the accuracy of a gun? How much accuracy and or consistency will you gain by upgrading from a Remington action? 1/2 MOA, ¼ MOA 1/8 MOA? Are there any actions out there that are a bargain for their performance? What would you suggest?

About the Stock, I think the McMillan A5 adjustable stock is considered the d-facto tactical stock. I considered the Bell and Carlson A5 also. Any suggestions on the Stock?

About the trigger, It doesn’t appear you have to break the bank to buy a Jewel trigger but is it worth the extra $100 then some other high end triggers? Any suggestions on the Trigger?

About the barrel, I plan on using the gun for tactical style shooting. I would like to push 6.5 x 47 rounds out to 1000 yards. Any suggestions on barrel makes, twist rates and lengths?

At some point I’d like to add a moderator. Does a moderator affect the accuracy of the gun? Same question on muzzle brakes? Heheh, I know you can’t have both on at the same time. Any moderators and or muzzle brakes you would suggest?

If you have made it this far, thanks very much for reading my post and considering my questions. Please feel free to respond to one portion or all of the post.

Thanks,
Eric

 

[swage]

Re: New 6.5 x 47 Tactical Gun Build, where to spend $

Eric,

I would spend some time reading this site as much as possible. All of your questions have been answered here many times. Accuracy is based on the shooter, the barrel and ammunition. Having said that I think you've picked out some good components. I personally chose a Surgeon action and DBM for my first full custom instead of wasting my time and money trying to upgrade and true a Remington. McMillan is a good stock, but I would also strongly consider a Manners T4 which is similar, but a better stock IMHO. Barrels are a personal choice. There's not much difference between the top barrel makers. I personally went with Krieger. Barrel length and twist rate has a lot to do with what bullet weight you plan on shooting. For a 6.5 I would choose an 8 twist barrel. That would allow you the widest range of bullet weights. The Jewell trigger is a great trigger but some have had issues with it fouling and becoming inoperable. I have yet to experience this but I dont run my gear hard like others do. The build your are putting together with component cost and smith fees will be at or near $4,000 and then you have to purchase quality glass if you plan on shooting 1000 yards. I would purchase a slightly used used setup from here on the hide if I were you. They come up regularly.

 

[jbailey]

Re: New 6.5 x 47 Tactical Gun Build, where to spend $

Don't forget to factor in brass cost, which are significant w/ that cartridge. Also, make sure your smith is setting up your chamber for the bullet class you want to shoot. 123 vs. 130 vs. 140, VLDs vs. SMKs vs. AMax, etc. 6.5L is an insanely easy cartridge to reload for if you do have a chamber that is reamed for the bullet you want to use.

I think 130grainers are the cat's meow in 6.5L. JLK, Berger, and Norma all make an excellent 130. BC close or as good as the 140's, but you get the 130 going 150+ fps faster. But lots of guys like 123 and have great success with it.

 

[Longshot38]

Re: New 6.5 x 47 Tactical Gun Build, where to spend $

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JustEric</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I plan to build a 6.5 x 47 tactical gun. I don’t have unlimited pockets so I want to make sure I spend my hard earned cash on the parts that make a difference. Oh, I would like the gun to hold sub ½ MOA while shooting 100+ rounds a day.

Stock, McMillan A5.
Trigger, Jewel.
Action, not sure but maybe up to a Surgeon.
Barrel, not sure but a top notch barrel
I plan on buying all the parts and then giving them to a very good gunsmith to build the gun. He will do all the standard accuracy tuning things (bed, true the bolt…).</div></div>

This is a great list of top tier components. And if assembled by a good smith they will shoot well.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JustEric</div><div class="ubbcode-body">About the action, I hear people say the Remington 700 action will do the job and others say to buy the best action you can afford. Is there a relationship to the amount of money you spend on an action and the accuracy of a gun? How much accuracy and or consistency will you gain by upgrading from a Remington action? 1/2 MOA, ¼ MOA 1/8 MOA? Are there any actions out there that are a bargain for their performance? What would you suggest?</div></div>

A factory action that has been trued up will get the job done. But the difference between a trued factory action and custom action is like comparing a Corvette to a Ferrari. Both will get you to the same destination in a similar manner but the level of styling and refinement doesn't even compare.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JustEric</div><div class="ubbcode-body">About the Stock, I think the McMillan A5 adjustable stock is considered the d-facto tactical stock. I considered the Bell and Carlson A5 also. Any suggestions on the Stock?</div></div>

There really is "d-facto" tactical stock. Stocks are a personal choice. What fits on shooter may not fit the next. Personally I have never been able to get comfortable behind a McMillian stock but I love Manners (the MCS-T4 & T3 in particular). However others have found stocks such as Accuracy International and XLR chasis to be the cats meow. So try as many different stocks as you can before you buy and pick the one that suits you best.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JustEric</div><div class="ubbcode-body">About the trigger, It doesn’t appear you have to break the bank to buy a Jewel trigger but is it worth the extra $100 then some other high end triggers? Any suggestions on the Trigger?</div></div>

All of rifles currently still have factory triggers that a smith has turned up for me. And my Jewel is still sitting in the shop. So I really don't see the need for an aftermarket trigger. A good smith can make a factory feel just fine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JustEric</div><div class="ubbcode-body">About the barrel, I plan on using the gun for tactical style shooting. I would like to push 6.5 x 47 rounds out to 1000 yards. Any suggestions on barrel makes, twist rates and lengths?</div></div>

Any of the top tier manufacturers can get you a quality barrel. My preferences are Rock Creek and Kreiger but I have also had good success with Pac Nor in the past. If I were purchasing the barrel for you purposes I would get something that tapers down to around .8 at the muzzle and was running about 22-24 inches.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JustEric</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At some point I’d like to add a moderator. Does a moderator affect the accuracy of the gun? Same question on muzzle brakes? Heheh, I know you can’t have both on at the same time. Any moderators and or muzzle brakes you would suggest? </div></div>

Why? 6.5x47 is a light recoiling round that really doesn't need anything to reduce felt recoil. If you are after a muzzle device for this rifle get a suppressor, it will be money better spent.

[/quote]

 

[SScott]

Re: New 6.5 x 47 Tactical Gun Build, where to spend $

Eric,
Welcome to the hide, great first post, now finish filling out your profile and become a contributing member here.
If you hang out here for a week, you will have the answer to your question, but I can short cut that by telling you to look at a Sako TRG in 260.
With the amount of shooting you mentioned, I am curious as to what you are doing, as that will also help us in giving you useful information.
SScott

 

[i_rep]

Re: New 6.5 x 47 Tactical Gun Build, where to spend $

I have the exact setup you speak of. Surgeon 591 action, Jewel trigger, 23.5" threaded bbl. It sits in an AICS 1.5 but gets flopped to McM or Manners from time to time. I like the 1.5 for prone but that is the only way I like it. Its too heavy to do anything else with.

I will try and save you alot of reasearch and reading and spoon feed you a little. That is why most tell you to search and read and you will find your answers that have been asked by others thousands of times here over and again.

A remington action will do the job, but any smith worth his weight in gold will charge you 200-250 to true that said action. Then you need to add a rail to that said action for another 100-150. A custom action (GAP Templar, Surgeon, Stiller, Defiance, and all of those others) were milled true and do not need this modification. Also some come with said rail. For example the Surgeon 591 action it is milled into the top of the action and does not move/detach therefore it IS part of the action. It doesn't get any better than that. So if you chose the remington action (350-400 bucks) keep in mind you will spend more to get it where it needs to be (another 300-400 w/rail).

Now cost wise a 591 retails for a little more money. But shop around and you can find a deal. The RSR action has the rail bolted to it and saves you quite a chunk of change.

Jewel may not be the best trigger but it is a great choice. Honestly you can't go wrong with an old style worked remington trigger, a timney, rifle basix or the jewel all will fill your needs very well. If it makes you feel at peace then spend the extra 100 now and don't look back.

All of the premium bbl makers will fill your needs but here is where you will have to choose for yourself. The smith you work with may help with this since some of them get better deals from certain manufacturers and they prefer to use those. For example GA Precison will probably put you in a Bartlin, Rock, or Obermeyer. RWS will probably put you in a Brux, etc.

The stock is your choice, as well as the DBM (detachable bottom metal). Also like mentioned before instead of a brake with that round unless you just really want to spend the extra 100-200 bucks. I would buy a can/supressor for it. My rifle in the AICS 1.5 with a 5-25 PH weighs in at 14-15 lbs. The recoil wearing the can is so little that the rifle may be fired with no one behind it. All it has is a little rock to it, kicks more like a 22.

If you don't have a smith picked out, I can suggest some that I have worked with and have had very good luck.

You need to pick your budget, this may be done and still be an excellent shooter using a Savage action. Probably for 1000-1500 bucks depending on the stock and DBM choice. It can be done with a Templar action for 3000-3500, or a Surgeon 591 action for 3000-4000.

Hope this helps.

 

[steve123]

Re: New 6.5 x 47 Tactical Gun Build, where to spend $

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JustEric</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I plan to build a 6.5 x 47 tactical gun. I don’t have unlimited pockets so I want to make sure I spend my hard earned cash on the parts that make a difference. Oh, I would like the gun to hold sub ½ MOA while shooting 100+ rounds a day.

Stock, McMillan A5.
Trigger, Jewel.
Action, not sure but maybe up to a Surgeon.
Barrel, not sure but a top notch barrel
I plan on buying all the parts and then giving them to a very good gunsmith to build the gun. He will do all the standard accuracy tuning things (bed, true the bolt…).

About the action, I hear people say the Remington 700 action will do the job and others say to buy the best action you can afford. Is there a relationship to the amount of money you spend on an action and the accuracy of a gun? How much accuracy and or consistency will you gain by upgrading from a Remington action? 1/2 MOA, ¼ MOA 1/8 MOA? Are there any actions out there that are a bargain for their performance? What would you suggest?

About the Stock, I think the McMillan A5 adjustable stock is considered the d-facto tactical stock. I considered the Bell and Carlson A5 also. Any suggestions on the Stock?

About the trigger, It doesn’t appear you have to break the bank to buy a Jewel trigger but is it worth the extra $100 then some other high end triggers? Any suggestions on the Trigger?

About the barrel, I plan on using the gun for tactical style shooting. I would like to push 6.5 x 47 rounds out to 1000 yards. Any suggestions on barrel makes, twist rates and lengths?

At some point I’d like to add a moderator. Does a moderator affect the accuracy of the gun? Same question on muzzle brakes? Heheh, I know you can’t have both on at the same time. Any moderators and or muzzle brakes you would suggest?

If you have made it this far, thanks very much for reading my post and considering my questions. Please feel free to respond to one portion or all of the post.

Thanks,
Eric

</div></div>

I like the Surgeon 591 because of the integral 20 moa rail and recoil lug.By the time you get a 700 worked on you'll be just short of what a nice custom action would of cost.If you ever need to sell the rifle later a custom action will make it more desirable and valuable.There's too many variables in the building of a rifle to pin accuracy down to the action alone.

You didn't mention detachable bottom metal(DBM).I like the Surgeon design as well but would give the Seekins a try this time if I do a build again.

Been reading of phenomenal accuracy with Bartlein barrels combined with a slight gain twist.My Kriegers are good shooters as well.25-26" with a Tubb/medium palma will do nicely.Just have the barrel threaded for suppressor and a cap installed or a muzzle brake.

Any of the triggers will do.You can adjust the Jewels weight while still in the stock.Seems like rifle basics can handle more debris without failing compared to the Jewel.

The worst thing that'l get ya about going custom is set backs in lead times of parts for the build or how busy(backed up) a good smith is.My rifle took 10 months.Really pissed me off.If you can find all the parts first and ship them to the smith there will be no excuse.

Or like Scott mentioned.Get a Sako TRG in 260R from Euro optics and go out shooting in a week.I've always wrestled with which to get a Surgeon 591 or a TRG.I have a Surgeon XL.It's super awesome!

 

[Dollman]

Re: New 6.5 x 47 Tactical Gun Build, where to spend $

This is very similar to the build I just had started. I'm having built 260 Rem. / 308 Win. switch barrel.

Using the McMillan A-5 with KMW Loggerhead, adjustable spacer system, 1" Pachmyer Decelerator pad, 4 flush cups, (bottom and left side), and small rail for Atlas bi-pod. This is exactly what the other LR target rifle has.

Bartlein Barrels with their "T" style rifling. the 260 cal. is 26" long and the 308 cal. is 24" long. Having both barrels threaded @ 5/8"X24tpi and thread protector caps for both.

Elite Iron muzzel brakes for both barrels which will be used from time to time. Again, exactly the brake I use on my existing LR rifle.

Jewell trigger set to 1 lb. the same exact weight as my existing target rifle.

Badger Ordance DBM

Surgeons 591 reciever.

Project will be piller bedded with 7075 aluminum pillars in Devcon Steel Putty.

Action will get Microslick coating and all exterior metal will be Cerakote black.

Premire Reticles 5-25X56mm scope and Badger Ordance 34mm rings as to match exact the rings and scope of my existing LR rifle.

Picking up a barrel vise and reciever wrench from Brownells.

Pelican case that I'll cut the foam neatly to fit the rifle, other barrel and componets into.

Heres my gunsmith.

http://spartanrifles.com/


Remington 700 recievers work out all right when trued / blueprinted by a competent gunsmith. My existing target rifle is using a Remington 700 reciever and will put "holes in holes" @ 100 yards. The problem is that by the time you spend the $$$ on the Remington reciever and the $$$ to have it trued your usually almost at the price of what an aftermarket reciever will cost. This is one of the things that I have learned from the first build. Also if you were to ever go to sell the rifle with all the good stuff but with the Remington reciever your more likely than not going to take considerably less than a rifle with a custom aftermarket reciever. Don't exactly know why that is but it has been my observation. Not to mention that recievers like the Surgeons and others like it are much smoother in operatring feel than most worked Remington recievers.

Just my 0.02 cents on this reciever stuff.

 

[Scoop]

Re: New 6.5 x 47 Tactical Gun Build, where to spend $

My version of what you're considering. Don't ever run the bolt on a Surgeon if you don't want to buy one. I won't ever go back to a trued-up Remmy again. Ended up putting one of the 5-20 Super Sniper's on this rifle and I love the whole package. 123 gr Scenars or SMK's @ 2750 and sub-half-minute accuracy. Gotta love it.

-McMillan A1-3 Stock in "Edge" Construction 2 flushcups and a bipod stud painted Flat Dark Earth
-Surgeon DBM Bottom Metal
-Surgeon 591 Action
-Small-firing-pin-hole Surgeon Bolt w/FP turned down to match
-Shilen Trigger at 2.5 pounds
-18.5 inch Lilja 3 groove 8 twist
-Sendero/Varmint Contour Fluted and threaded for my SWR Omega
-Viper PST 4x16x50 FFP MOA
-Coated in Coyote Tan CeraKote

 

[Dollman]

Re: New 6.5 x 47 Tactical Gun Build, where to spend $

More about your questions on your build.

Trigger
I have the Jewell trigger in the existing target rifle and I put a Timney trigger in a partially finished sporterized 03A3 I picked up last year. Between the both I perfer the Jewell. The Jewell trigger has practically no travel or creep and breaks like glass. Others may perfer the Timney. Some say that the Jewell is too delicate and susceptable to sticking or failing in dirty conditions. I have not found that to be true yet. It doesn't need or like to be oiled but likes to be cleaned with lighter fluid. The lighter fluid leaves a slight oily residue when it evaporates off that it likes. If you get a Jewell trigger I beleive the phamplet that comes with it goes over the cleaning with lighter fluid.

Muzzel brakes
I have two rifles with muzzel brakes and can say that they do change the POI somewhat but do not bother accuracy. At least thats my experience. They do make the muzzel blast report much louder and some find it offensive or bothersome. However, thats mostly going to be the folks shooting either side of you that are going to have the most problem with that. They do reduce the felt recoil quite a bit. If you decide to use one be sure to get a timed brake. I'm not sure, however, that with the 6.5X47 round that you'll need a brake.

As for rifle twist the barrel manufacture should be able to help you figure it out if you havn't figured it out before ordering.

Well theres another 0.02 cents worth.

 

[Supersubes]

Re: New 6.5 x 47 Tactical Gun Build, where to spend $

Just what is your budget? Do you have glass for it? If not, you may need to re-adjust your parts list to accomodate that. Are you shooting something now?

It is difficult to make these recommendations not knowing more about where you are, and where you are going. 100 rounds a day is a fair amount of shooting. Is that an arbitrary number or does that accomplish something for you. Doesn't really matter, but it's curious to me as a specification.

The most basic semi-custom rifle with a true action and a properly installed quality barrel will easily meet your accuracy requirements. Don't even worry about that.

The price difference between a trued remmy and the Surgeon 591 would probably cover your barrel blank, muzzle brake, and maybe your trigger depending on model. I think an RSR is a really nice balance of cost. You can also save a bit of cash using an AICS stock instead of a Mcmillan. Have you handled any of these (mcm, manners, aics?)

A piece of 6.5X47 brass is a bit over a buck a piece right now. You may consider building a .260, which off the top of my head is less than half that. The 47 brass will last longer, but being able to purchase a nice supply of brass up front will make your reloading/shooting cycle more practical.

 

[JustEric]

Re: New 6.5 x 47 Tactical Gun Build, where to spend $

Thanks for all the great responses.

Some asked a little about my shooting experience to better respond to my questions.

I started shooting last year. I bought a Savage 10 FCP K in 308 and put a Millet TRS - 1 scope on it. I also started reloading. I’ve shot and reloaded around 700 rounds. I’ve competed in 600 yard bench rest competitions and would like to start shooting tactical matches. My 10 FCP K shoots under 1 MOA but it seems to open up while I’m shooting in a match which usually takes around 75 rounds give or take. I’m not sure if it opens up due to being fouled or because it warms up. In any event, I’m looking for my next gun and I would like to build a gun that I can grow with. I hear great things about the 6.5 x 47. I’m to the point where I’d like to spend once and cry once. The 10 FCP K is a fun gun but I’d like to have a gun that I can’t blame when I throw a shot. I plan on putting the gun together as I get the extra money so a quick build is not important.

I don’t buy blue jeans based on the name on the tag and I want to make sure I don’t fall into that trap when putting a gun together. I don’t want to buy parts just for bragging rights. I want to maximize performance and reliability without overspending. I’d rather buy a less expensive action (that works as well as a Surgeon) and put that extra money into better glass. I suspect there are trade offs between cost and performance but if it’s at the cost of 1/10 of an MOA, I don’t think that’s worth chasing. What I really want, is a gun that shoots 1/2 MOA or better and doesn’t open up as it shoots through the day, due to fouling or heating.

Thanks again for your help!!!!
Eric

 

[Supersubes]

Re: New 6.5 x 47 Tactical Gun Build, where to spend $

The tactical game is quite different from BR. In a tactical match, you will probably find that any percieved loss of accuracy will be swallowed up by the fact that you are shooting from compromised positions, at large-ish targets.

There are a lot of good actions out there. My Surgeon had over 4k rounds down it and I loved it. Its feel got better and better with age. If you want to go the surgeon route, I'd say an RSR is the way to go although I have read Surgeon has axed it from the line.

May I also suggest an AIAE MKII. The best action hands down, I don't care what anybody says. Battle proven, smooth as hell, durable, and a trigger that puts everything else to shame in reliability. You can buy one when you get the money, and get great support here from the company/vendor reps. I shoot an AW myself, but have owned an AE MKII. I love the AW but it isn't $2k better than an AE. They can be had in .260 or 6.5 creedmoor as well, which seals the deal for me.


Hope this helps.

 

[ctressler]

Re: New 6.5 x 47 Tactical Gun Build, where to spend $

Try to buy American whenever you can