New barrel, used/sized brass won’t chamber help

[Baron85]

Just received my new 6br barrel for my archimedes. I’m having issues with chambering sized lapua 6br brass that was fired out of my other 6br, it is a bighorn tl2 with pva prefit. It appears the case is too fat at the head or webbing area of the case. I confirmed this by using a sharpie to color a case then try and close the bolt.

I had one piece of virgin lapua brass And it chambers fine. So I bought a rcbs small base sizing die. After sizing the cases still don’t fit and measuring the base of the small base sized and the factory fresh case there is .002” fatter on the fired and sized case.

Are there any tricks or tips to help me reuse my old stash of brass with this new barrel or am I stuck buying new brass?

 

[straightshooter1]

If you're going to be getting future barrels from the same source using the same reamer dimensions, you might try to get hold of Whidden Gunworks and see about getting a custom die made??? OR . . . get a reamer that'll enlarge your chamber to work as your previous barrels has, or have someone do it.

Custom Reloading Dies - Whidden Gunworks

Custom Dies Whether you're a hunter or a competition shooter Whidden Gunworks can manufacture Custom dies to your exact specifications and if needed can

www.whiddengunworks.com

 

[Rocketmandb]

Your old chamber is larger than the new and your sizing die won't size it down enough. I'd get some once-fired out of your new, then measure some fired brass (not resized) out of your old and compare. See how small your new chamber is and is it within spec.

 

[Haney]

Buy new brass and all your future headaches will be gone . You could buy a ring die and try that , I read of people buying them these days but have no clue who make/ sells them . I use a small base .308 winchester die on my 6br brass . It works for the slight difference in my chambers .

Are you seeing contact between die and shell holder while sizing a case ?

 

[Baron85]

I am seeing contact with the shell holder on both my normal Redding die as well as my rcbs small base die. I thought the small base die resized brass all the way to factory dimensions or a little smaller?

It’s looking like new brass is the solution but just hate to do that since I have 500 with only a few firings on them and I’m not planning on running the old 6br other than as a spare.

 

[mtrmn]

I've not done it myself, but I've heard of people taking a couple thousandths off the top of the shell holder to allow the case to go farther into the die. That would also bump your shoulder back farther as well, so be aware of that. Are you camming over at the top of the press stroke? or just making light contact?
I seem to have heard also of the existence of a "body die" that only sizes the sides of the case without bumping the shoulder at all. All this is just off the top of my head and using my "old man memory" so YMMV.

 

[Baron85]

Yes camming over, I could try sanding down the bottom of the small base die since I have no use for it in case I ruin it.

 

[supercorndogs]

That works if the headspace in the dimension causing problems. Its usually body diameter though. I wouldn't start removing metal from anything until I had done some measuring and figured where the sticking point is.

 

[mtrmn]

Personally I'd remove metal from a shell holder because they're much cheaper than dies. If you don't like the result, just go buy another shell holder. I've also heard of different height shell holders you can buy, Hornady or Forster maybe??

 

[Baron85]

It appears to be the body just above the base is too large. The small base die I bought is about .001 larger than the brass that fits into the chamber. Since it’s tapered if I grind down the bottom of the small base die in theory it should continue to make the body smaller the farther I grind.

I should have bought another shell holder yesterday but didn’t think about it and the smallest shell holder I have is perfect for 2 of my other rifles so don’t want to mess it up

 

[mtrmn]

Remember the farther you push the shell into the die the more you set the shoulder back. Consider yourself warned.
This is why I mentioned a "body die" that doesn't mess with the shoulder. Not even sure such a thing exists but if it did I bet C4HD could supply it.
As stated previously, I myself have never had to try this, I'm just going on things I've read on here and elsewhere over the years.

 

[918v]

Grinding the shell holder or die will not work. You’ll end up with too much shoulder bump before you see any case head diameter reduction. There is not enough body taper.

 

[Rocketmandb]

Grinding the shell holder or die will not work. You’ll end up with too much shoulder bump before you see any case head diameter reduction. There is not enough body taper.

+1

Again, the OP's new chamber would seem to be too small. Even if he can get one to chamber, that may not be enough. There may be extraction issues too. I got some of my old chamber 300 PRC brass mixed with my new by accident. Similar situation to the OP - new chamber too small. I even had a custom die done, but I still had extraction issues with the old brass. What a pain to get the brass all sorted back out again.

OP: Just put the old brass away and if you ever sell the older rifle, sell the brass along with it. Get new brass for the new rifle.

Also: The new chamber looks to be quite undersized. You might want to get a custom die regardless. Your existing die will likely not be sizing the brass at all and this could lead to issues 4-6 firings in.

 

[ShtrRdy]

Sounds like you need something like the Larry Willis collet sizing die.

Innovative Technologies - Reloading Equipment

Our patented resizing die can reload Winchester, Remington and Weatherby belted magnums up to 20 times, instead of just 2 or 3 times and the top of the die is a chamber width gauge.

www.larrywillis.com

Unfortunately I don't think there is one made for a 6br case.

 

[918v]

On another thought, you could have them roll sized. Find a commercial roll sizing service and see how much they want.

 

[Haney]

The reason I use a .308 Winchester Small Base die for 6 BR is because there is no worry of pushing the shoulder back . Grinding the bottom off a bit would do the trick ? Also, the SB RCBS .308 may size smaller than a 6 BR die SB die due to the fact 308 is used in many semis . I could be full of crap on that , I have no way of really knowing .

OP It's a bummer having so much brass you can't use . Maybe post it up for sale with full disclosure , surely someone with a more generous chamber would like to buy it . Good luck

 

[Baron85]

Ok. So spent about an hour hand grinding the bottom of my small base 308 die and removed around .004” it did the trick just sized 20 cases and all chamber perfectly. Going to load them up and pressure check the new barrel and measure the fire formed brass to see what the chamber looks like.

I appreciate everyone’s feedback and help on this.

And like stated I’m using a 308 small base die on 6br brass so no worries of bumping the shoulder too far.

Hoping 1 trip through the small base die will do the trick and can use my Redding die moving forward but if not will look into a custom die.

 

[B y r o n]

So how do you brass dimensions compare to the specifications?

 

[FLIGHT762]

Looks like you got it worked out, but this is an option you could try, if needed.

For some of my oversized @ the case web 308 Win. brass, I have a set of RCBS 270 Win. small base dies. That 270 die got the 308 webs down to .4675" without touching the case shoulder. Just a hair smaller than my Redding small base 308 body die can take it down.

Seems the 30/06 family of cases have a very slightly smaller dimension @ the case web.

O/P, if you have a 30/06 family die (25/06,270) or a buddy that has one, you could try that to see if you get a smaller case web without having to spend any money.

I don't know if the 6 BR case taper is wider than the 30/06 case taper. It's worth a try if it doesn't cost anything but a couple of cases to try.

 

[Haney]

Ok. So spent about an hour hand grinding the bottom of my small base 308 die and removed around .004” it did the trick just sized 20 cases and all chamber perfectly. Going to load them up and pressure check the new barrel and measure the fire formed brass to see what the chamber looks like.

I appreciate everyone’s feedback and help on this.

And like stated I’m using a 308 small base die on 6br brass so no worries of bumping the shoulder too far.

Hoping 1 trip through the small base die will do the trick and can use my Redding die moving forward but if not will look into a custom die.

Excellent news , glad to see you can salvage your brass .

 

[KnowNothing256]

Ok. So spent about an hour hand grinding the bottom of my small base 308 die and removed around .004” it did the trick just sized 20 cases and all chamber perfectly. Going to load them up and pressure check the new barrel and measure the fire formed brass to see what the chamber looks like.

I appreciate everyone’s feedback and help on this.

And like stated I’m using a 308 small base die on 6br brass so no worries of bumping the shoulder too far.

Hoping 1 trip through the small base die will do the trick and can use my Redding die moving forward but if not will look into a custom die.

Nicely done.

 

[Baron85]

First 3 rounds through the barrel. I think this will work

 

[Haney]

First 3 rounds through the barrel. I think this will work

Looks like a happy ending . You have a shooter and can salvage your brass , win/win . Job well done .

 

[tomme boy]

Did you actually check to see if the shell holder was touching the die? Most people scrw the die down till it touches the shell holder. This is wrong if you have brass from another gun. You have to run the case up into the die and then look under the die to see if there is a space between the die and shell holder. 9 out of 10 times there will be a gap. There is slop and flex in every press made. You just have to screw the die down a little at a time till it chambers. I have never needed a SB die for anything I have ever had. I just set up my dies right for each gun

 

[Haney]

Did you actually check to see if the shell holder was touching the die? Most people scrw the die down till it touches the shell holder. This is wrong if you have brass from another gun. You have to run the case up into the die and then look under the die to see if there is a space between the die and shell holder. 9 out of 10 times there will be a gap. There is slop and flex in every press made. You just have to screw the die down a little at a time till it chambers. I have never needed a SB die for anything I have ever had. I just set up my dies right for each gun

If you read the thread you would know the answer to your question . Small base die did the trick for him .

 

[Baron85]

Did you actually check to see if the shell holder was touching the die? Most people scrw the die down till it touches the shell holder. This is wrong if you have brass from another gun. You have to run the case up into the die and then look under the die to see if there is a space between the die and shell holder. 9 out of 10 times there will be a gap. There is slop and flex in every press made. You just have to screw the die down a little at a time till it chambers. I have never needed a SB die for anything I have ever had. I just set up my dies right for each gun

Yep die was definitely making hard contact with shell holder. I spoke with the smith and he uses a tight chamber and small chamfer for most support. I have not measured the fired brass from yesterday yet but will today.

What the smith thinks is that my old chamber had a larger chamfer and looser dimensions. It makes sense to me, each time I ground down on the small base die the brass would chamber slightly easier until it finally went in smoothly. Like stated earlier, a virgin piece of lapua brass chambered easily but the brass fired from my old chamber, even after resizing would not chamber withouth significant force.

 

[Dolomite]

Get yourself a harrels custom die, send them 3 pieces 3x fired new brass and they will send you a die to match your chamber. Use that die to size your old brass.

 

[KnowNothing256]

Get yourself a harrels custom die, send them 3 pieces 3x fired new brass and they will send you a die to match your chamber. Use that die to size your old brass.

Lol he already fixed the problem

 

[tomme boy]

If you read the thread you would know the answer to your question . Small base die did the trick for him .

If you would read, nowhere in his thread has he mentioned that the shell holder was touching the bottom of the die with a piece of brass in the die at full stroke. Just about everyone fails this check when they say their fl die is not sizing enough. And more than likely his regular die will work if he does this. SB dies are never needed for 99.9% of the time. And I can guarantee you did not knows this either. But you will say you did so you don't look like a idiot.

 

[SporterII]

Pre fit? Like my Criterion Remmage ? Second barrel, same load, still running the Old brass, same old RCBS dies, same dope and hits at distance. It’s one of those Old 243 cartridges.

 

[Baron85]

My first barrel was a prefit. This new barrel is a custom fit by gunsmith

 

[mtrmn]

If you would read, nowhere in his thread has he mentioned that the shell holder was touching the bottom of the die with a piece of brass in the die at full stroke. Just about everyone fails this check when they say their fl die is not sizing enough. And more than likely his regular die will work if he does this. SB dies are never needed for 99.9% of the time. And I can guarantee you did not knows this either. But you will say you did so you don't look like a idiot.

If you would read, you would have seen that I asked him if he was making light contact or camming over. His answer was that he was camming over.
Posts 6 and 7

 

[Haney]

If you would read, nowhere in his thread has he mentioned that the shell holder was touching the bottom of the die with a piece of brass in the die at full stroke. Just about everyone fails this check when they say their fl die is not sizing enough. And more than likely his regular die will work if he does this. SB dies are never needed for 99.9% of the time. And I can guarantee you did not knows this either. But you will say you did so you don't look like a idiot.

I am seeing contact with the shell holder on both my normal Redding die as well as my rcbs small base die. I thought the small base die resized brass all the way to factory dimensions or a little smaller?

 

[Haney]

If you would read, nowhere in his thread has he mentioned that the shell holder was touching the bottom of the die with a piece of brass in the die at full stroke. Just about everyone fails this check when they say their fl die is not sizing enough. And more than likely his regular die will work if he does this. SB dies are never needed for 99.9% of the time. And I can guarantee you did not knows this either. But you will say you did so you don't look like a idiot.

You seem like a rude little fella .

 

[Mike Casselton]

Personally I'd remove metal from a shell holder because they're much cheaper than dies. If you don't like the result, just go buy another shell holder. I've also heard of different height shell holders you can buy, Hornady or Forster maybe??

Always modify the cheaper item

 

[tomme boy]

If you would read, you would have seen that I asked him if he was making light contact or camming over. His answer was that he was camming over.
Posts 6 and 7

Just because you cam over, or screwed the die down to make contact with the shell holder does not mean the die is sizing to its full length. You have to run a piece of brass up into the die. THEN look under the die between it and the shell holder. Every press flexes and has slop in the toggle. Don't believe me, go look at all of your setups for fl sizing. I bet everyone of them will have space between the shell holder and the bottom of the die. And that was with the die touching the shell holder when you set it up.

No one here has even understood what is going on with the correct way to set up the die to get the most out of the die. SB dies are usually NEVER needed. Everyone just does not know how to set up their dies.

 

[supercorndogs]

Please explain to us how to "adjust a die to get the most out of the die." I think you might be confused by the difference between camming over and touching the shell plate.

When I cam over on a die in my rock chucker press. No there is no gap, and I can feel it cam over on the die when I size the brass too. I have a chamber that needs a SB die. Another .001 of shoulder bump wouldn't do anything because its the body diameter sticking the case.

 

[Haney]

Just because you cam over, or screwed the die down to make contact with the shell holder does not mean the die is sizing to its full length. You have to run a piece of brass up into the die. THEN look under the die between it and the shell holder. Every press flexes and has slop in the toggle. Don't believe me, go look at all of your setups for fl sizing. I bet everyone of them will have space between the shell holder and the bottom of the die. And that was with the die touching the shell holder when you set it up.

No one here has even understood what is going on with the correct way to set up the die to get the most out of the die. SB dies are usually NEVER needed. Everyone just does not know how to set up their dies.

You have quite an imagination , and no clue . Tell the truth now , do you reload ?

 

[Roksliding]

I didn’t read all the post so I apologize if it’s been said, but I’ve had this issue before.

I had some fired brass that measured at the case head (memory could be off) .475+ Compared to factory new which was .468 I believe… compared to NEW once fired in my NEW chamber measuring.470ish..

That was my problem, weather it be excessive pressure or different chamber (from the same smith) I don’t know.



Removing anything off the shell holder didn’t do anything for me.

Buying the varying size shell holders did nothing for me.

The only thing that worked for me was buying a small base die and/or buying new brass.

My issue was with a 6creed, so I bought 6.5creed small base dies….


This is why I will never buy or sell “once fired brass” again.

 

[mtrmn]

Just because you cam over, or screwed the die down to make contact with the shell holder does not mean the die is sizing to its full length. You have to run a piece of brass up into the die. THEN look under the die between it and the shell holder. Every press flexes and has slop in the toggle. Don't believe me, go look at all of your setups for fl sizing. I bet everyone of them will have space between the shell holder and the bottom of the die. And that was with the die touching the shell holder when you set it up.

No one here has even understood what is going on with the correct way to set up the die to get the most out of the die. SB dies are usually NEVER needed. Everyone just does not know how to set up their dies.

Yeah whatever...

 

[tomme boy]

I can't believe I have to explain to someone how to set up a die. Just because your press cams over does not mean the die is sizing the brass all the way. All presses flex. This flex or stretching is what can leade to the case not sizing all the way.

1) Screw the die down in the press.
2) raise the ram up till the shell holder touches the bottom of the die
3) lube a piece of brass and insert into the shell holder
4) run the piece of brass up into the die till the handle cams over
5) do not lower the ram
6) look under the die to see if there is any gap between the shell holder and die
7) if there is a gap, lower the ram and screw the die in a little at at a time and repeat steps 4,5,6,7 till there is no gap.

 

[KnowNothing256]

Don't believe me, go look at all of your setups for fl sizing. I bet everyone of them will have space between the shell holder and the bottom of the die. And that was with the die touching the shell holder when you set it up.

No one here has even understood what is going on with the correct way to set up the die to get the most out of the die. SB dies are usually NEVER needed. Everyone just does not know how to set up their dies.

I can't believe I have to explain to someone how to set up a die. Just because your press cams over does not mean the die is sizing the brass all the way. All presses flex. This flex or stretching is what can leade to the case not sizing all the way.

1) Screw the die down in the press.
2) raise the ram up till the shell holder touches the bottom of the die
3) lube a piece of brass and insert into the shell holder
4) run the piece of brass up into the die till the handle cams over
5) do not lower the ram
6) look under the die to see if there is any gap between the shell holder and die
7) if there is a gap, lower the ram and screw the die in a little at at a time and repeat steps 4,5,6,7 till there is no gap.

So, not to be rude, but what I'm reading is that you've assumed that everyone here has a gap under their die. That strikes me as pretty presumptuous, and you were more than a bit of a jerk about it to boot.

You're making some mighty broad assumptions, and I think it's safe to say that any one person asserting that they are the only one to have "unlocked the code" should do a bit of soul-searching before going loud.

 

[supercorndogs]

I can't believe I have to explain to someone how to set up a die. Just because your press cams over does not mean the die is sizing the brass all the way. All presses flex. This flex or stretching is what can leade to the case not sizing all the way.

1) Screw the die down in the press.
2) raise the ram up till the shell holder touches the bottom of the die
3) lube a piece of brass and insert into the shell holder
4) run the piece of brass up into the die till the handle cams over
5) do not lower the ram
6) look under the die to see if there is any gap between the shell holder and die
7) if there is a gap, lower the ram and screw the die in a little at at a time and repeat steps 4,5,6,7 till there is no gap.

You think that is going to reduce the diameter of a case that is .002 to big?

 

[tomme boy]

You think that is going to reduce the diameter of a case that is .002 to big?

Depending on how far out the die is adjusted it could. If you go through the steps I just showed and it still will not chamber then an undersize die would be needed. But most dies are already at the same size as a SB die. All of my rcbs dies size larger than all of my other dies. They make SB dies just so that they can make more money off of you.

SB dies are only 0.001" smaller than the regular size, so they would not be able to size that 0.002" smaller you posted.

And again most people here that are commenting about me being the only person that knows this are probably the ones that have never heard of or seen what I am talking about. That's not making assumptions. Being on many, many gun forums over the last 27 years has showed me most people do not know this. How do I know this? Everyone was telling him to file the top of the shell holder or file off the bottom of the die. Not a single person asked if there was a space between the die and shell holder when the case is fully ran into the die. Taking material off of the shell holder or die would not help this.

I have worked for many years in a hot and cold metal extrusion and forging factory. Reloading is sort of the same thing we do. You run a piece of metal into a die and change its shape. We have to compensate for many things. Die expansion and flex in the press itself are factored into the size of the dies and even which press they are run on. It is no different than what we are doing. Do you think the rcbs rock chucker has the same amount of flex as a C style press? Or a turret press? I know for a fact I know more about this than most here. So keep making assumption all you want about what I know.

And for me anyway, new barrel, new brass. Then you don't have to worry about if the brass will fit or not.

 

[Baron85]

Ok, so I went and took pictures of my brass in different stages just at the web. Trying to measure the body consistently was a joke.

First picture is fired brass out of my old chamber. .471”

Second picture is fired brass from new chamber. .469”

Third is brass from old chamber run through my Redding type 2 full length sizing die. .470

Fourth is that exact same brass that was sized with the Redding now run through the rcbs small base die. .467”

And yes, I am aware that calipers are not as accurate as micrometers or what ever other tool that’s better but it’s enough to show the difference.

And best I could do for pictures but the shell holder and die are 100% in contact.

I really do appreciate everyone’s help with this. Just trying to provide some more data for future people that might search this.

 

[Oldloser]

If the barrel works for you then depending on how much brass you have, get more barrels with exact same chamber so you can use the brass to its lifetime. I had the same issue for same reason and was facing tossing out 800 fairly new cases, but managed to salvage most of them.

 

[Baron85]

Next go around I will definitely plan on grabbing a few barrels. This is the first time I have had multiple barrels in the same caliber. I am honestly surprised there is this much variation in chamber dimensions. I figured it was mostly the free bore that would change.

 

[Oldloser]

When I switched I had some loaded rounds left over. A few did chamber and the pressure signs were bad. I had to drop nearly 2.5 grains. Something else to think about with a tighter chamber. I pulled the bullets on about 150 cases and resized them and reloaded to be safe.

 

[Baron85]

The ammo I have loaded I will just keep for the old rifle since I still have it and it still shoots good. Going to keep enough brass set aside to keep feeding it as needed

 

[supercorndogs]

Depending on how far out the die is adjusted it could. If you go through the steps I just showed and it still will not chamber then an undersize die would be needed. But most dies are already at the same size as a SB die. All of my rcbs dies size larger than all of my other dies. They make SB dies just so that they can make more money off of you.

SB dies are only 0.001" smaller than the regular size, so they would not be able to size that 0.002" smaller you posted.

And again most people here that are commenting about me being the only person that knows this are probably the ones that have never heard of or seen what I am talking about. That's not making assumptions. Being on many, many gun forums over the last 27 years has showed me most people do not know this. How do I know this? Everyone was telling him to file the top of the shell holder or file off the bottom of the die. Not a single person asked if there was a space between the die and shell holder when the case is fully ran into the die. Taking material off of the shell holder or die would not help this.

I have worked for many years in a hot and cold metal extrusion and forging factory. Reloading is sort of the same thing we do. You run a piece of metal into a die and change its shape. We have to compensate for many things. Die expansion and flex in the press itself are factored into the size of the dies and even which press they are run on. It is no different than what we are doing. Do you think the rcbs rock chucker has the same amount of flex as a C style press? Or a turret press? I know for a fact I know more about this than most here. So keep making assumption all you want about what I know.

And for me anyway, new barrel, new brass. Then you don't have to worry about if the brass will fit or not.

You might need to go re-read posts #8 and #12. You have no idea what size my dies are because you have never measured them, seen them or measured the brass coming out of them.

No, screwing the die down farther past cam over does't work when the base is way to big and stopping the case from chambering. Yes i am well aware of press flex and that coming over harder increases shoulder bump up to point. But from the point where you are coming over on the die, to full bump isn't going to get .002 more base sizing, which is not a number I pulled from the sky. Its how fat the OPs brass from post 1. Maybe you skipped that one too.