New barrel, used/sized brass won’t chamber help

[supercorndogs]

Ok, so I went and took pictures of my brass in different stages just at the web. Trying to measure the body consistently was a joke.

First picture is fired brass out of my old chamber. .471”

Second picture is fired brass from new chamber. .469”

Third is brass from old chamber run through my Redding type 2 full length sizing die. .470

Fourth is that exact same brass that was sized with the Redding now run through the rcbs small base die. .467”

And yes, I am aware that calipers are not as accurate as micrometers or what ever other tool that’s better but it’s enough to show the difference.

And best I could do for pictures but the shell holder and die are 100% in contact.

I really do appreciate everyone’s help with this. Just trying to provide some more data for future people that might search this.

I have a 20 practical that I have to small base for. I don't like it because it means two passes one in a redding bushing die, and one in an RCBS small base die. Its the first one I have ran into that stuck cases without a small base die. Its really bad with brass from a "5.56 match" chamber I have. I didn't even think about it making some ammo to break in the AR, lucky with the decapping pin out of the RCBS X die, I was able to small base size the ammo rather pulling it all down.

 

[jean-paul]

Just received my new 6br barrel for my archimedes. I’m having issues with chambering sized lapua 6br brass that was fired out of my other 6br, it is a bighorn tl2 with pva prefit. It appears the case is too fat at the head or webbing area of the case. I confirmed this by using a sharpie to color a case then try and close the bolt.

I had one piece of virgin lapua brass And it chambers fine. So I bought a rcbs small base sizing die. After sizing the cases still don’t fit and measuring the base of the small base sized and the factory fresh case there is .002” fatter on the fired and sized case.

Are there any tricks or tips to help me reuse my old stash of brass with this new barrel or am I stuck buying new brass?

Hi Sir i had the same problem with my 6BR barrel . It is a very tight chamber. I even full sized the cases but no result. Bolt would not close.
The problem is if you look to the bottom of a full sizing die the back of a case is never sized because the die is a bit a bit round at the end.
I spoke to a college shooter and he told me that i had to use a Wilson body die but i had already ordered a Redding body die.
And she did the job. If you look at the bottom of the body die they go straight till the end. I use a firm cam - over but not to much. No crazy things.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Lol he already fixed the problem

No, he really didn't, he got the brass to fit into the chamber for this and most likely one more firing. Being his FL die did not do the trick the first time, as he fires the brass and it grows, his original die most likely won't reduce the dia enough, and on his 3rd firing, he will most likely experience clickers and stiffer extraction.
His chamber sounds small, and he should get a die to match it, or he will be repeating this process over again.

 

[Haney]

No, he really didn't, he got the brass to fit into the chamber for this and most likely one more firing. Being his FL die did not do the trick the first time, as he fires the brass and it grows, his original die most likely won't reduce the dia enough, and on his 3rd firing, he will most likely experience clickers and stiffer extraction.
His chamber sounds small, and he should get a die to match it, or he will be repeating this process over again.

He is using brass fired in another chamber . Apples/oranges from unfired brass . Maybe they will stay a little tight , maybe they will be just fine . You have no way of knowing either way , to state any different is a lie .

 

[Milo 2.5]

He is using brass fired in another chamber . Apples/oranges from unfired brass . Maybe they will stay a little tight , maybe they will be just fine . You have no way of knowing either way , to state any different is a lie .

LOL, you keep on thinking that

 

[supercorndogs]

No, he really didn't, he got the brass to fit into the chamber for this and most likely one more firing. Being his FL die did not do the trick the first time, as he fires the brass and it grows, his original die most likely won't reduce the dia enough, and on his 3rd firing, he will most likely experience clickers and stiffer extraction.
His chamber sounds small, and he should get a die to match it, or he will be repeating this process over again.

He said his small base die reduced the diameter to .467. So I think he did get a smaller die. If not exactly this will happen..

 

[Milo 2.5]

He said his small base die reduced the diameter to .467. So I think he did get a smaller die. If not exactly this will happen..

I based my comment after this post, maybe I need to read more. If his small base die works, great.

 

[supercorndogs]

Ok, so I went and took pictures of my brass in different stages just at the web. Trying to measure the body consistently was a joke.

First picture is fired brass out of my old chamber. .471”

Second picture is fired brass from new chamber. .469”

Third is brass from old chamber run through my Redding type 2 full length sizing die. .470

Fourth is that exact same brass that was sized with the Redding now run through the rcbs small base die. .467”

And yes, I am aware that calipers are not as accurate as micrometers or what ever other tool that’s better but it’s enough to show the difference.

And best I could do for pictures but the shell holder and die are 100% in contact.

I really do appreciate everyone’s help with this. Just trying to provide some more data for future people that might search this.

 

[Baron85]

I am concerned with the possibility of my web expanding again since it appears my full length sized does not size small enough for the chamber. I did size a few pieces of the brass fired in the new chamber and they fit without issues but obviously it will be 2-3 firings before I know for sure

 

[Baron85]

If I run into that issue I will probably just small base size it again. I have 500 pieces of brass and 6br has a barrel life of 2500-3000 from what I have read so that’s only small base sizing maybe 2-3x over the course of this barrel.

Next go around I will grab a few barrels all chambered the same and get a custom die as needed.

 

[Baron85]

Good point.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Good point.

I missed the part where your small base die is sizing .002 under fired. That may suffice, if it does, i would not go semi or custom, the die may create issues on future chambers cut closer to spec.

 

[Baron85]

I may just load 5-10 cases and fire them and resized with my standard die a few times and see if any issues arise. That would be the scientific route

 

[swamper2]

Scrub it out and shoot it and scrub it again to get the micro burrs out / copper fouling. All it needs is a little breakin procedures.

 

[supercorndogs]

 

[swamper2]

my post was misdirected. my bad

 

[dnchrist]

Personally I'd remove metal from a shell holder because they're much cheaper than dies. If you don't like the result, just go buy another shell holder. I've also heard of different height shell holders you can buy, Hornady or Forster maybe??

Good Rule - always modify the cheapest part!

 

[Keith Johns]

I know this isn’t a new thread but since it got bumped to the top I’ll comment…

I always ask my customers to marry virgin brass to chambers, meaning don’t fire brass that was shot in a different chamber. I know people do it all the time and it works out but it’s not the best idea. Plan out your brass count/times fired with your expected barrel life so once the barrel is shot out, the brass has gotten enough uses that you don’t mind tossing it. It could save you and your gunsmith some headache.

 

[jean-paul]

Just received my new 6br barrel for my archimedes. I’m having issues with chambering sized lapua 6br brass that was fired out of my other 6br, it is a bighorn tl2 with pva prefit. It appears the case is too fat at the head or webbing area of the case. I confirmed this by using a sharpie to color a case then try and close the bolt.

I had one piece of virgin lapua brass And it chambers fine. So I bought a rcbs small base sizing die. After sizing the cases still don’t fit and measuring the base of the small base sized and the factory fresh case there is .002” fatter on the fired and sized case.

Are there any tricks or tips to help me reuse my old stash of brass with this new barrel or am I stuck buying new brass?

Hi Sir
Had the same problem.
Bought a Redding Small Base die. Problem solved.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I know this isn’t a new thread but since it got bumped to the top I’ll comment…

I always ask my customers to marry virgin brass to chambers, meaning don’t fire brass that was shot in a different chamber. I know people do it all the time and it works out but it’s not the best idea. Plan out your brass count/times fired with your expected barrel life so once the barrel is shot out, the brass has gotten enough uses that you don’t mind tossing it. It could save you and your gunsmith some headache.

Not an issue if you buy quality barrels made by good outfits. No prs shooter unless they are sponsored and going to buy another 5-600 PC of brass every barrel. That's another $5-700, almost what a new prefit cost.

The op fucked up by not doing this and by not verifying the prefit and the new smith use the same reamer. He could have also sent some pieces to smith to make sure they would chamber. If you are going to piss money away in a gunsmith to custom fit a barrel, make them earn their money.

 

[Baron85]

I definitely learned my lesson. The gun smith was able to fix the chamber. I sent him a few pieces of brass and it’s all good now. I ended up selling the rifle and bought an action that accepts proof prefits and have bought 2 barrels and will continue to do that route.

As far as only buying enough brass to burn out a barrel, I don’t like that because I would have to constantly be reloading to keep up with my practice and matches. I have been using batches of 500 but next time buying brass I think 750-1000 is a better number to keep from having to constantly be in the reloading room.

 

[jakelly]

Depending on how far out the die is adjusted it could. If you go through the steps I just showed and it still will not chamber then an undersize die would be needed. But most dies are already at the same size as a SB die. All of my rcbs dies size larger than all of my other dies. They make SB dies just so that they can make more money off of you.

SB dies are only 0.001" smaller than the regular size, so they would not be able to size that 0.002" smaller you posted.

And again most people here that are commenting about me being the only person that knows this are probably the ones that have never heard of or seen what I am talking about. That's not making assumptions. Being on many, many gun forums over the last 27 years has showed me most people do not know this. How do I know this? Everyone was telling him to file the top of the shell holder or file off the bottom of the die. Not a single person asked if there was a space between the die and shell holder when the case is fully ran into the die. Taking material off of the shell holder or die would not help this.

I have worked for many years in a hot and cold metal extrusion and forging factory. Reloading is sort of the same thing we do. You run a piece of metal into a die and change its shape. We have to compensate for many things. Die expansion and flex in the press itself are factored into the size of the dies and even which press they are run on. It is no different than what we are doing. Do you think the rcbs rock chucker has the same amount of flex as a C style press? Or a turret press? I know for a fact I know more about this than most here. So keep making assumption all you want about what I know.

You are barking up the wrong tree.

For our posterity’s sake:
Most modern case designs utilize about .010” per inch of body taper. Cartridges also require dies that size around .002” to .004” under chamber/fired diameter to extract smoothly. That 6BR is on the small end of that scale. Those facts guarantee this is not an, “oh, there’s a bit of daylight between my die and shellholder” problem. Using the same die, this is a 1/4” of ram travel problem. There would have to be three nickels worth of daylight between the two.

When the problem is proven by measurement to be in the web diameter, we can all stop recommending skimming the dies and/or shellholders. That will fix headspace problems not web diameter problems.

 

[Wizard1183]

Personally I'd remove metal from a shell holder because they're much cheaper than dies. If you don't like the result, just go buy another shell holder. I've also heard of different height shell holders you can buy, Hornady or Forster maybe??

Redding makes them.

I’d suggest measuring the chamber of the barrel and then drop .001-.003” from that on full length sizing die. There’s nothing wrong with your sizing die. Lube cases and run em through. Keep tightening down a hair until it’s sized. It’s abnormal to have to take metal off a die or shell holder. Try RCBS shell holder, Lee shell holder etc until you find one that sizes the brass.

 

[jakelly]

Redding makes them.

Blah, blah, blah… “@jakelly, you wasted your breath. My ignorance will not be pierced by a weapon as common as truth. Now pack up your vain attempts at edification and depart, you scurrilous rat.”

I feel like I’m in a Monty Python skit…

 

[1bamashooter]

New barrel new brass unless it was cut by the same reamer. You will have issues with this brass until you get new brass. Barrels and brass are consumables and to save a bunch of trouble just get new brass.

 

[Dolomite]

Hi Sir
Had the same problem.
Bought a Redding Small Base die. Problem solved.

Did you use the small base die just once or do you have to constantly use it?

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Should only need to use it once. Then it will fireform to the new chamber. Then set the bump from there.

 

[Wizard1183]

I feel like I’m in a Monty Python skit…

Wut

I feel like I’m in a Monty Python skit…

i feel like you quoted bs and wasted your finger typing

 

[Dolomite]

Should only need to use it once. Then it will fireform to the new chamber. Then set the bump from there.

Doesn’t brass have memory especially in the base area? Won’t it go back to the larger size after fired? Meaning the clickers will come back?

 

[Milo 2.5]

I feel like I’m in a Monty Python skit…

LOL, even the worst Monty Python skits made some sense, bang your head off a brick wall, get more satisfaction.

 

[spife7980]

Doesn’t brass have memory especially in the base area? Won’t it go back to the larger size after fired? Meaning the clickers will come back?

It does so far as its range of elastic movement goes. Move it a little and it will try to go back.
If you over come that buffer and enter into its plastic deformation range you can then “reset” it. Go far enough and it’ll adopt that as it’s new home dimension.

 

[Dolomite]

It does so far as its range of elastic movement goes. Move it a little and it will try to go back.
If you over come that buffer and enter into its plastic deformation range you can then “reset” it. Go far enough and it’ll adopt that as it’s new home dimension.

I’ve read that if you use a 308 or 270 small base die it will just size the head of the cause with out sizing the upper half of the brass. This will allow you to use your regular die to bump shoulder and size the neck.

 

[spife7980]

I’ve read that if you use a 308 or 270 small base die it will just size the head of the cause with out sizing the upper half of the brass. This will allow you to use your regular die to bump shoulder and size the neck.

If the die has less taper than the case and adequate length so that the top of the body, shoulders and neck never touch then yeah, a smaller case will go in and just touch at the web on a longer cases sb die

 

[Milo 2.5]

I’ve read that if you use a 308 or 270 small base die it will just size the head of the cause with out sizing the upper half of the brass. This will allow you to use your regular die to bump shoulder and size the neck.

I have had my share of oversized diameter chambers, miss matched die-chamber fits. It does not make me an expert, but does make me considerably more knowledgeable than a few in this thread. Removing material from shellholders or the bottom of a die and leaving the shoulder intact will yield more issues than you care to incurr.
The best solution I have found if no small base die is available in the cartridge you wish to use, is to buy a reg sizing die that is spec, and have a smith or a machine shop bore the shoulder off the die, then remove enough off the bottom of the die to get to .002" under the chamber dimensions. Or if your press a coax, you can just remove the upper part of the die, and this may be the least invasive.
Brass theoretically cannot outgrow chamber size, so once brass size is below chamber specs, having the correct die to size thereafter really is all that should be needed. Not to be confused with excessive case head growth associated with excessive pressures.
Here is a pic of both, a 243 SB die with the shoulder bored off, think a x47 die with the upper half removed(favorite).

 

[Rocketmandb]

New barrel new brass unless it was cut by the same reamer.

Reamers can get worn down, so even the same reamer may not be safe. Ask me how I know...

 

[1bamashooter]

Reamers can get worn down, so even the same reamer may not be safe. Ask me how I know...

2 barrels at the same time? I get mine done 3 at a time but I use my own reamer

 

[Dolomite]

maybe this will help those in the future with tight base or clicker issues and don't want to use a small base die. Small base dies really works the brass back to factory.

 

[Dolomite]

Is this the PVA die?

Ring die made by pbike on accurate shooter forum

 

[Dolomite]

There's definitely a requirement for a die like this out there. I tried the PVA universal sizing base die and the bushings they had were something like .463 instead of .468 and I couldn't get a piece of brass through it. Great idea but their bushing spec was off and they weren't making more bushings to a proper small base die size.

I've found the die spec for the web to be somewhat finicky. Widespread standard wise .468" should be good. But it actually kinda depends on the chamber you have that's requiring more sizing than your standard die can do. If the small base die sizes more, or too much, you end up shaving brass down the wall and it builds up at the base of the web in the form of a small bur or flange. Or worst case you can't get a piece of brass through it, like the issue I had.

I guess if you're chamber requires more than a .468" it's just a bad barrel job and needs to be recut.

Very good points. The reamer that was used has a .4704 base so the die needs to size the base at a min .469 but hotter loads really work the base. He makes the ring die with various specs. I got a .4675 which helped get that base smaller without touching any portion of case except the base. The ring die sizing the base doesn't increase the OAL or headspace, somehow it just sizes the base without the brass growing just like the video. Seems like the spring back is about .001-.0015 which sizes my fired case from .470 down to .469 to .4685. I did go with a custom Whidden die but after 5 firings the base does get a tad to large causing slight clickers.

Now I learned to ask for a reamer with a .471 base and I shouldn't have any issues.

Apparently a standard die should size the base about .001-.0015 below chamber spec depending on brass base spring back.

Alex Wheeler talks about clickers and sizing does on his website.

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