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New batch of CCI 450 and several failed
- Thread starter BBVDD
- Start date
Weak firing pins are the #1 issue,..the #2 issue is cross contamination on the loading bench. Solvents will kill the cake mix rapidly.
This thread is getting pretty good. So its either a weak firing pin spring, CCIs QC, or a crazy combination of both. I just know that in my Begara 6.5cm that was having the issues, it had several thousands of actual firing and countless more dry firings. The bolt lift was considerably easier compared to my Origin action I have right now that fires every 450 primer without a problem yet. The Origin only has a low few thousands firing so far. Somewhere around the ballpark of 3000ish.
If anyone needs me to do some CCI 450 Lot testing just send me a minimum of one brick (1000 primers) from your case and I'll let you know the failure rate in multiple guns and calibers. Currently I do not have a backlog so I can begin testing on your primers immediately. First come first serve.
Also, later this summer we'll be piloting our primer disposal service. For any of you that have the bad lots, for a nominal fee we will take receipt of all of your primers and dispose of them in a safe and environmentally conscious manner.
We will be offering a discount for anyone who utilizes both the Lot Testing and Primer Disposal Services.
Any interest in a group buy for Lot Testing or Primer Disposal? If so I'll come up with some killer pricing.
Thanks
Ross
Also, later this summer we'll be piloting our primer disposal service. For any of you that have the bad lots, for a nominal fee we will take receipt of all of your primers and dispose of them in a safe and environmentally conscious manner.
We will be offering a discount for anyone who utilizes both the Lot Testing and Primer Disposal Services.
Any interest in a group buy for Lot Testing or Primer Disposal? If so I'll come up with some killer pricing.
Thanks
Ross
page #3 post 103....
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Sucks they aren't working out... maybe get a hold of cci and see what they say.
For reference I guess this what I got..still working on old dark blue boxes. Surgeon 591, Rem 700 and 2 dif lowers. TT diamonds on bolt actions. CE on one ar and a 667s on the other..
For reference I guess this what I got..still working on old dark blue boxes. Surgeon 591, Rem 700 and 2 dif lowers. TT diamonds on bolt actions. CE on one ar and a 667s on the other..
FWIW I suddenly ran into significant issues with some older, but properly stored, 500s (small pistol) recently. Not familiar with the lot# nomenclature but they've been on my shelf for 3 years or so. Caught it early on in a run, so I've only got a hundred or so built that I can work into my training. New batch runs great, and 450s have always been money in my ARs and trainer.
The only problem with CCI 450 is they are very hard. That's why I use them. Probably 25k in the last 15 years
Not one failure. But I remember hearing guys bitching about them from time to time. If your going to
run one of the hardest primers out there. You need to pay attention to all the little stuff.
Not one failure. But I remember hearing guys bitching about them from time to time. If your going to
run one of the hardest primers out there. You need to pay attention to all the little stuff.
Last edited:
Yes, I hand prime all my cases that are run thru a single stage press. One good press on the priming tool, rotate case and press again. May seem like an extreme crush fit to some but no failures and 450's seem to add in a part to my low sd's.
OMG, after ALL the discussion has anyone thought to look at the suspect primers first ? ? ? I would don my full face shield and leather gloves then very gently deprime a few problem rounds so as not to do more damage to the primer than necessary and totally inspect them. Be very careful as out of the cartridge case primers are Dangerous to you ! Does the anvil look normal and at the right height ? Is either the anviI crushed or priming compound cracked? Measure cup height. Is there the proper amount of priming material in the right place compared to a known batch of good primers; is it the right color ? Was there partial ignition ? Basically measure everything and look at everything See what you can see that might not be right. Then if you need to call CCI-- see what they have to say.
I agree. The only time Ive ever been able to get one to set off is by smashing it with a hammer.
Cci can eat a dick.
I verified in 5 rifles between 3 people that the lot of 450s I had were fucked. I replaced firing pin springs, tried every primer seating depth using my CPS and checked headspace multiple times. Each rifle was a different brand of action. Trued 700, defiance elite, impact, surgeon and tempest.
multiple emails to Cci and they said we didn’t know how to reload.
come to find out that 4 or 5 other people in our club were having the same issues with the 450s.
I’m gonna shoot through the rest of my 400s and switch entirely to federal which I haven’t had a single issue with.
@that_dude_ryanmichael
@Covertnoob5
@kriller134
there’s more but I don’t know their SH tags
they should know their customer service, or at least the one we were dealing with was a prick
same thing here...4-5 guys running different actions all having the same issues but get told i dont know how to load.
Just a little update on this as I took my gun out this past weekend to shoot.
Had 27 rounds (24 loaded for the Berger seating test and 3 warm ups).
when I primed these I really jammed them in there as deep as I could to the point the primer flattened just a touch.
every single one fired with no problem.
Had 27 rounds (24 loaded for the Berger seating test and 3 warm ups).
when I primed these I really jammed them in there as deep as I could to the point the primer flattened just a touch.
every single one fired with no problem.
I've had 2 misfires out of 200 and new blue 450 primers box. Impact action. 21st century priming tool.
New lapua brass with shorter head space is a possibility. I'm going to use the measuring process like mentioned above. I've measured before and try to be cautious as I don't want to smash the shit out of my primers.
Maybe my firing pin is at the shorter end of normal and my brass is new and maybe I'm pussyfooting around while seating the primer. Maybe its a bad lot of primers.
I hope its my fault so it will be an easier fix.
New lapua brass with shorter head space is a possibility. I'm going to use the measuring process like mentioned above. I've measured before and try to be cautious as I don't want to smash the shit out of my primers.
Maybe my firing pin is at the shorter end of normal and my brass is new and maybe I'm pussyfooting around while seating the primer. Maybe its a bad lot of primers.
I hope its my fault so it will be an easier fix.
my lot is different.
zero misfires so far on my AIAT
I seat them to the bottom of my primer pocket and feel them bottom out firmly. My primer pockets are loose enough for this to be noticed. Maybe if you have really tight primer pockets then you might not have the primers fully seated?
I ran across this thread while looking for 450s.
Is this still a problem? Are there still dud primers with the new lots?
Is this still a problem? Are there still dud primers with the new lots?
I have a Frankford Arsenal Perfect Seat hand primer.
I found that if I seat the primer as deep as I can with the tool I didn't get any more misfires.
Out of probably 200-300 rounds since, not one misfire
I found that if I seat the primer as deep as I can with the tool I didn't get any more misfires.
Out of probably 200-300 rounds since, not one misfire
Do you uniform your primer pockets? The Lapua pockets are a bit concave on my 6.5x47 brass.
I wonder if it would help you. You would be able to seat the primers deeper and have a flatter surface to seat them against.
I know you already found a solution, I'm just throwing out more ideas.
Anybody want to sell any of these bad 450 primers. seriously. pm me. i could use couple thousand.
Just seeing this thread now, it's interesting stuff. I've been shooting CCI450's for the past 5 years out of an AI with no issues (sample size of one, I know).
At first I was priming on my Co-Ax, which resulted in the primer being seated -0.007" below flush of the case head. I now use a CPS priming tool, and set that up to yield the same -0.007" depth, both with Lapua 6.5x47L brass and Alpha/Hornady 6GT brass. It sounds like many people tried that, and is also the recommendation of CCI, so if you're using the proper depth then maybe it's something else. If you're seating them just to "flush" with the case head, that 0.007" of primer movement during impact with the pin could eat up enough spring energy to cause the issue.
From a manufacturing perspective, it is a little hard to believe 10's of primers per 100 would be bad when they expect a failure rate of 1 per 1M. But escapes do happen.
Maybe it is a combination of primer not seated quite deep enough, headspace is a little bit too much, firing pin isn't quite strong enough, pin protrusion isn't quite far enough? Many custom actions don't have the firing pin strength of a factory AI, at the benefit of lighter bolt lift.
At first I was priming on my Co-Ax, which resulted in the primer being seated -0.007" below flush of the case head. I now use a CPS priming tool, and set that up to yield the same -0.007" depth, both with Lapua 6.5x47L brass and Alpha/Hornady 6GT brass. It sounds like many people tried that, and is also the recommendation of CCI, so if you're using the proper depth then maybe it's something else. If you're seating them just to "flush" with the case head, that 0.007" of primer movement during impact with the pin could eat up enough spring energy to cause the issue.
From a manufacturing perspective, it is a little hard to believe 10's of primers per 100 would be bad when they expect a failure rate of 1 per 1M. But escapes do happen.
Maybe it is a combination of primer not seated quite deep enough, headspace is a little bit too much, firing pin isn't quite strong enough, pin protrusion isn't quite far enough? Many custom actions don't have the firing pin strength of a factory AI, at the benefit of lighter bolt lift.
Here is my experience with the 450's recently. Had a Defiance action 6.5CM that ignited a whole case of 450's last year no issues whatsoever. Changed lots and action to a Bighorn Tl3 as well as to a 6CM. Brass was virgin and way undersized from SAAMI spec. Brass also had ridiculously tight primer pockets. Had lots of FTF and hang fires. Once fired brass I still had some issues. Thought it was a bolt problem. Manufacturer sent me a brand new bolt. Still have some issues though not as many. I did start to pay attention to seating the primers deeper with an RCBS bench mounted primer. That seems to have helped. Also the primer pockets have started to loosen up so its easier to get the primer seated correctly. Haven't had any problems with that lot of primers and my Defiance action and different 6.5CM brass though.
I don't think its an action problem. I do think its a primer manufacture/primer seating depth problem. Would be interesting to know but I have a feeling this may not get resolved.
I don't think its an action problem. I do think its a primer manufacture/primer seating depth problem. Would be interesting to know but I have a feeling this may not get resolved.
I have had 0 failures in my Tikka 223.
I have had a huge percentage of failures in my Bighorn TL3 6.5CM. Even after changing out firing pin and spring.
I switched the 6.5 to Federal 205s And have had zero failures, and was able to go back to original firing pin and spring.
Using the CPS for priming.
Parker
I have had a huge percentage of failures in my Bighorn TL3 6.5CM. Even after changing out firing pin and spring.
I switched the 6.5 to Federal 205s And have had zero failures, and was able to go back to original firing pin and spring.
Using the CPS for priming.
Parker
Too many variables...
Changed lot #, action, cartridge
Also sounds like the TL3 could be one potential culprit based on what you and @TexasClassIII have just said. IMO, just because the spring and pin are replaced doesn't mean it's now strong enough or still doesn't have too much drag for reliable ignition. I know this has been discussed in way more technical detail by @karagias but I can't recall which thread it was in. I believe Ted went through some detailed calculations on firing pin springs, but maybe it was in a different thread.
Had my first set of bad #450s over the weekend. I've never had a FTF with these, but had three (out of 50) fail out of the blue. This was from a batch of 1000 purchased in 2019, that up until this point had about 600 fired without any failures.
I’ll still buy couple thousand 450s lol. I need some bad. Pm me if anyone cousin spare some. Thx
I’ve had a few fail to fires with 450’s in my Havak action and my 6.8SPC AR. Haven’t really figured out why because it’s so random. I still use em tho.
D
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Add me to the list of people reporting on CCI #450 failures . My batch was bought in 2019 and I'm seeing about 8 or 10 failures per thousand.
I have a batch of CCI #41's bought in the same year that give no issues.
I have been down this road before with CCI. Back in about 2000 there was a bad batch that was giving everybody fits. CCI of course said we were all full of shit...all ten of us at the same gun club, shooting multiple rifles in different calibers...
But, I don't compete, and tearing down a round or two now and again reclaim the other components isn't a huge deal.
I have a batch of CCI #41's bought in the same year that give no issues.
I have been down this road before with CCI. Back in about 2000 there was a bad batch that was giving everybody fits. CCI of course said we were all full of shit...all ten of us at the same gun club, shooting multiple rifles in different calibers...
But, I don't compete, and tearing down a round or two now and again reclaim the other components isn't a huge deal.
So I sent my rifle back to WTO they check everything and said that it was gtg. I went ahead and had Clayton bush my firing pin and put a Tubb spring in it, got it back and had 5 FTF in 50 rounds. I called CCI and they sent me a return with the instructions to prime 15 cases and send the 5 that didn’t go off. I will update the thread when I hear back
Maybe we should start listing our lot numbers for the CCI 450’s that are having FTF to see if there’s a correlation. I’ve had quite a few in this lot not fire. I’ll start:
Lot# E22Z22
Lot# E22Z22
I’ve had a few not pop. Some not even on the second try.
I thought it was cold related. Then I thought, maybe, because of the cold, perhaps any lube in my striker was gumming up, after I noticed my 1911 running really slow and changing from grease to oil.
I cleaned the entire firing pin assembly and thought I had it nailed, but still had one in the last 50 not go bang.
I thought it was cold related. Then I thought, maybe, because of the cold, perhaps any lube in my striker was gumming up, after I noticed my 1911 running really slow and changing from grease to oil.
I cleaned the entire firing pin assembly and thought I had it nailed, but still had one in the last 50 not go bang.
