Night Vision New Feature of the DBAL-I2 many may not know about

[Victor-TNVC]

Early on with the release of the Class 1 systems, LDI lead the way with the release of the DBAL-I2 and followed on with many other models. Nowadays we find a host of other laser manufacturers following suit in the civilian market and more to come.

With TNVC working with restricted high power lasers for many years now, we knew 25mW and higher IR lasers were just too much unless calling in a strike or some other long distance maneuvers for Mil and specialized LE work , but typical CQB ranges caused headaches with real life blooming and masking of targets, especially small ones. Their high power IR laser illuminators though coupled with the laser itself, really helped mitigate the bloom and is a great way to work the restricted units.

For the DBAL I2 Class 1 units, even at .7mW this laser can also bloom at closer ranges under 100m and does not have the luxury of a high power IR illuminator, even though one can use a high power IR illmuimator such as our Torch Pro to mitigate the blooming effective I described above, some do not wish to hang all that gear on their gun.

For the longest time, I was perplexed why the low feature was not enabled on the I2 units as their body housings are the exact duplicate of their restricted counterpart units having the high and low switch geometry. I then inquired with LDI late last year to address this subject and they were happy to implement this change. Since we had been working with LDI on their LASTAC Class 1 Pistol laser we are the exclusive distributor on, we already had the opportunity to work and test with several lower power IR diodes and got to experiment what best for a handgun, so we thought the I2 unit could also benefit from a lower power output.

After working with several variations of low power I2's, as of February 1st 2013, LDI implemented all DBAL-I2 Class 1 units shipped on and after that date, now have their respective low IR laser power switch enabled to .2mW which allows for close up pointing with minimal bloom. The high switch still has the normal output of .7mW.

We still see several other folks talking about "blooming" and such, but having a DBAL-I2 set to it's low setting of .2mW settles most blooming aspects which is most welcomed for close and smaller targets. Hope this helps.

Vic

 

[mikeltee]

That's awesome that you are held in such high regard with the devolopers, and with your thorough reviews, amongst other things, you deserve every bit of it. I think what most of us civilians want is the high powered illum laser, and could care less about the light saber. I wish a bunch of you guys could collaborate and release a system which includes the class3a illuminator laser. To my understanding, they are not ILLEGAL for civilian use as long as that piece of hardware is not on a military contract. That is how Newkon Optik is able to get away with stuffing class 3a lasers in a device sold to the general public. Maybe I'm misinformed. Would you care to elaborate on the whole class 3 laser and civilian use mystery? Are you aware of anyone attempting to use these high powered lasers in any civilian gear in the near future? Every week, I bid on eBay on a genuine peq-15 to $2300, but they usually go for about $2800. I think there would be high demand for an item like this.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Place holder for a detailed response of your great questions. A bit late this way, but will answer tomorrow what I know after many years of working with US laser manufactures and the FDA .

Vic

 

[IR-V]

That's awesome that you are held in such high regard with the devolopers, and with your thorough reviews, amongst other things, you deserve every bit of it. I think what most of us civilians want is the high powered illum laser, and could care less about the light saber. I wish a bunch of you guys could collaborate and release a system which includes the class3a illuminator laser. To my understanding, they are not ILLEGAL for civilian use as long as that piece of hardware is not on a military contract. That is how Newkon Optik is able to get away with stuffing class 3a lasers in a device sold to the general public. Maybe I'm misinformed. Would you care to elaborate on the whole class 3 laser and civilian use mystery? Are you aware of anyone attempting to use these high powered lasers in any civilian gear in the near future? Every week, I bid on eBay on a genuine peq-15 to $2300, but they usually go for about $2800. I think there would be high demand for an item like this.

There is no mystery. The FDA is the regulating entity in the U.S., and their concern is with eye safety. However, the way the regulations are written, the burden of control and compliance is with the manufacturer of the portable laser devices. Electro-optics manufacturers are prohibited from selling portable laser devices that exceed the FDA thresholds for eye safety. However, they may request a waiver to produce them exclusively for distribution to military, law enforcement, and some medical industry applications. The waiver has requirements requiring the maker to serialize the restricted laser devices, maintain audited production and disposition records, and implement controls to ensure only the authorized entities receive delivery of the restricted laser devices.

If the manufacturers abide by the terms of their waivers, the only ways a civilian could acquire a restricted laser device is: (1) black market sales of laser devices stolen from the manufacturer, military, or law enforcement chain of custody. (2) misrepresenting one's self to the manufacturer as a military or law enforcement officer with procurement authority for the restricted devices. (3) subsequent resale of law enforcement trade-ins of restricted laser devices no longer needed or wanted. (4) subsequent resale by members of the military performing field tests of restricted laser devices not sold to the military but offered up to individual troops by the mfg. for beta testing. (5) subsequent resale of prototypes, by laboratory and engineering personnel, involved with the development of the restricted laser devices under the umbrella of the corporate waiver of the manufacturer of the restricted laser devices. (6) sales of surplus laser devices produced BEFORE the FDA restrictions went into effect. (7) civilian user assembled, high-output, portable laser device from the unrestricted components. (8) foreign manufacturer who is not governed by U.S. restrictions and not heavily monitored by FDA and DHS ICE on the products they export to the U.S.

The DHS ICE enforcement has primarily been focused on stopping and supporting prosecution of individuals stealing or illegally diverting the restricted laser devices from military and law enforcement procurements and inventory, which pertain to #1 and #2 above. #3, #4, and #5 are legal "gray areas" that are difficult or overly expensive to try to prosecute, so for now, the DHS ICE is not as aggressive to try to enforce on, but often investigate. #6 is generally not enforced upon, but may be investigated. #7 is generally not enforced or investigated as long as the maker of the device doesn't draw attention to himself by selling or doing something reckless with the laser device. #8 is receiving an increasing amount of FDA and LE attention and control in the form of blocked or confiscated imports via the customs inspections process.

IR-V

 

[mikeltee]

So Newcon Optik is selling these illegally according to #8?

I appreciate your comments by the way. I'm aware that you hardly ever post here, and you are an expert in this field.

 

[IR-V]

So Newcon Optik is selling these illegally according to #8?

I appreciate your comments by the way. I'm aware that you hardly ever post here, and you are an expert in this field.

Mikeltee,

You're welcome. I appreciate your kind words.

The high-output Newcon laser devices themselves are not illegal. Newcon is not a U.S. manufacturer and therefore not governed by the FDA regs, which don't control the device or the user, but instead, put controls and the burden of responsibility on the maker. However, because of the FDA standards / guidelines / regulations pertaining to eye safety, U.S. Customs can, at their discretion, block their import and confiscate them if they find them during the import inspection process. It is similar to how certain foods are not illegal in the U.S., but because of the potential health or environmental risks of the food item coming from outside the States, they can be blocked for or confiscated from importation here.

The same situation applies to the 1000 - 3000 mW visible lasers from Hong Kong. These far exceed the FDA limits for eye safety, and while many of the laser units get through U.S. Customs, a number have not and do not -- and Customs is not obligated to compensate the buyer for the funds they paid to the maker / seller of the confiscated device.

There are makers of high-output, IR laser diode illuminators from Russia that have been importing to the U.S. as long as Newcon Optik has. Because these illuminators could be focussed to a more narrow lens angle, they've attracted more attention from the FDA and Customs and because of stepped-up controls from these gatekeeping entities, they (the Russian maker and their affiliates) aren't trying to import and sell their IR laser illuminators here anymore.

The monster IR illuminator that was Newcon's flagship was the IR-450 with 450 mW IR laser output. You'll note that it is no longer available for sale in the U.S. The ones that are still offered for sale here have much less output, and the lenses are fixed for a much more diffuse (wide) angle. Being sold as photography equipment, they're still let in to the U.S. However, I'm certain if the FDA were to become aware of civilian users fabricating and affixing collimating lenses to the Newcon illuminators that Newcon would come under more scrutiny and control. IR LED technology is now capable of output rivaling the intensity at range of IR laser diodes, and at much lesser costs to manufacture, that it really makes a lot less business sense these days for makers to persist with the diffused IR laser illuminators for civilian use and all the legal baggage that goes with.

A lot of the Newcon IR laser aimer devices are now advertised to appear to have high output, but have been dumbed down to FDA spec "eye-safe" output levels. You'll notice on those units that no matter how hard one digs for output spec, in mW, that the specs cannot be located on a U.S. hosted web site in association with the actual product being sold in the U.S.

IR-V

 

[Victor-TNVC]

As always IR-V beat me to the punch line, he's a wealth of knowledge to say the least, the real deal. ;-)

I will add based on our direct contact with the FDA, our legal team along with laser manufacturers is basically what IR-V has mentioned. Bottom line is (the grey area per say), it's not illegal to posses restricted lasers, but illegal for a U.S. manufacturer to sell a laser unit without a variance to begin with.

At the onset before LDI or anyone else sold a "Class 1 IR Laser", the law basically said (which has always been worded a bit confusing) that ALL IR lasers were restricted and were basically classified in the Class 3b arena. I know it took over a year for LDI to get the variance issued for the Class 1 IR lasers they wanted to produce. It was an expensive effort of time and legal procedures but appears were the first ones to get a variance of a IR laser out of the Class 3b arena and qualify it under a Class 1.

I am also glad IR-V mentioned the foreign units out there and how they are not "technically" a US manufacturer, they are not governed by the FDA regs. I can tell you they're have been several cases over the years where lasers have been confiscated, etc. The one thing that concerns me on another foreign unit or two out there is the manufacturers classify their units as "Class 1" with stickers along with other media forms the unit is eye safe to fool the FDA. Unknown to many the unit is really a 75-95mW Class 3b laser protected with a flimsy diffuser filter to skirt the law. This is dangerous stuff here in a big way, because if someone removes this flimsy filter and still thinks this unit is eye safe (how would they know any different), and looks into the unit or someone else eye's, someone is going to lose an eye and the manufacturer, and unscrupulousness dealers who can care less about safety except getting one up on competition will have some explaining to do before the judge. Heck we even hear and read dealers tell customers of these units, "the unit is more powerful, just call us and we will tell you how operate the unit." Sorry, but this is terrible stuff with marking units as eye safe due to a filter that can be removed with no other warning etc. Please don't tell me or the person who blows out their eye "he should have known better". Obviously no one should ever look into a Class 1 etc. period, but we know this is not always the case. In this case, we have stickers telling the masses the unit is eye safe complete with a dust filter that can be removed.

We do hope more variances are granted for US laser manufactures to allow for higher laser systems out there especially in the wide dispersed laser illumination department. Time will tell.

Vic

 

[catswithguns]

Seems to me that all laser devices should be treated just like firearms, don't point it at anything you aren't willing to destroy.

 

[mikeltee]

One could easily blind another person with IR, and none would be the wiser. I understand why these are kept so tightly controlled. I think keeping them in the $2k+ would keep them out of kids hands though.

Thanks for you additional response Vic.

 

[SkyPup]

Seems to me that all laser devices should be treated just like firearms, don't point it at anything you aren't willing to destroy.

That is the way we roll.

 

[IR-V]

As always IR-V beat me to the punch line, he's a wealth of knowledge to say the least, the real deal. ;-)

Vic

Vic,

Always great to "tag team" with you!

IR-V

 

[Captain Moroni]

Does anyone know if an older unit could be sent in and retro fitted? I have one that was made in December 12.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Does anyone know if an older unit could be sent in and retro fitted? I have one that was made in December 12.

No retro's are available per LDI, BUT, we do have the neutral density filters in stock that bring the beams intensity down to a non blooming level as well. LDI Laser Neutral Density Filter ? Tactical Night Vision Company

Vic

 

[Strykervet]

Seems to me that all laser devices should be treated just like firearms, don't point it at anything you aren't willing to destroy.

Discharging one in my unit was considered an AD, that was 10 years ago.

 

[Captain Moroni]

No retro's are available per LDI, BUT, we do have the neutral density filters in stock that bring the beams intensity down to a non blooming level as well. LDI Laser Neutral Density Filter ? Tactical Night Vision Company

Vic

Cool thanks, I'll pick one up.

 

[Wormydog1724]

Just checked my I2 and it does work on both high and lo IR setting. June 2013 is the manufacture date. I actually didn't even know as I haven't switched it to hi until I read this. lol. Thanks Vic!

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Seems to me that all laser devices should be treated just like firearms, don't point it at anything you aren't willing to destroy.

Amen to this, no matter what the output of the laser is, especially ones that have stickers telling the end user one thing, but in reality totally something else.

Vic

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Just checked my I2 and it does work on both high and lo IR setting. June 2013 is the manufacture date. I actually didn't even know as I haven't switched it to hi until I read this. lol. Thanks Vic!

Welcome, glad we could assist.

Vic

 

[Victor-TNVC]

It seems a few recently did not know about the new low power incorporation of the I2 and this was NOT done because of possible tube damage stemming from a .7MW laser, not even close. It was to maintain a cleaner beam without some doughnut bloom. Another good trick to mitigate bloom is to use an IR illuminator. Hope this helps.

One other point, the LAS-TAC Pistol laser is 0.2mW, (that was our requirement) not 0.7mW like some would lead you to believe.

Vic

 

[SkyPup]

This should give you an idea of the difference in blooming between 0.7mW and 0.1mW IR laser output.