Night Vision New FLIR -The RS Dedicated Thermal Weapon Scope- 60mm units just arrived!

[SkyPup]

FLIR PERSONAL SYSTEMS SHOT SHOW WRAP:

SHOT Show 2014 - Post-Show Wrap-Up

 

[SkyPup]

 

[SkyPup]

 

[TestnDoc]

Looks pretty nice Skypup! How would your rate it against your T70? Im getting tired of waiting for my T70!

 

[SkyPup]

The 640 core and 35mm lens is a short range 300 yard unit like my T-70, very similar in target range and detection, with the 60mm lens system however, there is no comparison, much more range and resolution than my T-70s.

IMHO, a 320 or 640 core with a 60mm lens is Da Bomb, 320 will do it all and 640 is 4X the resolution of the 320, icing on the cake with great ID resolution.

The top end of the 320 and 640 with the 60mm lens system is no joke, it is killer.

The 35mm lens system on the 320 or 640 is 1/2 the range and resolution of the big 60mm lenses.

 

[TestnDoc]

Interesting. Can the RS be used as a spotter or a clip on??

 

[SkyPup]

Spotter -> Yes

Clip-On -> No

 

[SkyPup]

Many people are unaware of FLIR's software alogrithim that enhances their thermal sight images.

This is incorporated into all the new FLIR RS Thermal Scope models.

Here is an explanation of why DDE is important at times:


Only under extreme unfavorable environmental conditions do I even use FLIR's proprietary DDE (Digital Detail Enhancement) to bring out the background contrast above a linear thermal gradient. DDE is basically a spatial filter designed to enhance the high spatial frequencies (edges etc.). The DDE filter attenuates high amplitude signals, making more of the total dynamic range available to display faint objects and details. The amount of attenuation is automatically determined by analyzing scene statistics.

Here is a link to FLIR's excellent Digital Detail Enhancement proprietary alogrithium:

http://www.flir.com/uploadedfiles/Eu...TN_0003_EN.pdf


Digital Detail Enhancement (DDE) helps the human eye to see targets more easily using thermal imaging.

Human eyesight can only distinguish about 128 levels of grey in an image (7 bit signal).

A Long Wave Infra Red microbolometer core is assimilating in excess of 15,000 levels of grey (14 bit signal) and has to transform this into a 7 bit signal which the human eye can distinguish - otherwise a target will go undetected.

FLIR Systems developed Digital Detail Enhancement (DDE) to help make targets more readily visible.

DDE magnifies all details equally - so a small hot spot against a cold background will be just as clear to see and not be lost amid the dominant background temperatures.

This overcomes a major problem and is extremely important in acute circumstances.

It is an exclusive FLIR Systems product and is incorporated into all its thermal imaging.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

FLIR DDE Video.

Digital Detail Enhancement (DDE) - YouTube

 

[TestnDoc]

Great video Vic. Thanks for the info.

 

[GBMaryland]

Yeah, that just got pre-ordered...

I know this is a question that'll drive Vic crazy, what's the projected availability of the RS 640 60mm?

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Yeah, that just got pre-ordered...

I know this is a question that'll drive Vic crazy, what's the projected availability of the RS 640 60mm?

We are told March. Our PO's have been in for awhile now.

Vic

 

[TV-PressPass]

This thread needs more photos of the RS on guns!

 

[SkyPup]

YES!

Soon to be shooting hogs instead of paper too!

 

[SkyPup]

Jager Pro and FLIR teamed up together on working up the RS Thermal scope prototypes, here is a nice professional explanatory video from them:

JAGER PRO? - RS32 & RS64 FLIR Thermal Scope Launch - YouTube

 

[SkyPup]

FLIR RS64 ThermoSight ? Tactical Night Vision Company

 

[Bronco]

"The R-Series runs off an internal, rechargeable battery that provides about 4.5 hours of constant operation from a single charge. This helps to reduce the overall weight, size, and cost of the scope."

So this internal battery is it replaceable in the field or does it have to be sent in? Understand there is a way to run it off an external battery also, is this available at time of purchase or something yet to be made? Same battery for all of the models? How long to recharge?
Thank you for any enlightenment on these questions.

 

[SkyPup]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK8DaknKLaE

NO OLED screen for ocular viewing, the ocular is a lens...

 

[Hogzillanator]

From the FLIR RS 32 description: (SRS-M™) is qualified for a MSR semi-automatic platform, up to .30 Cal.

What does MSR stand for?

Can I turn the reticle off for hand held viewing?

Can it be clipped on as well as stand alone?

What is the technology difference between a thermal clip on and a thermal rifle sight all other things being the same (refresh rate etc).?

 

[Hogzillanator]

Questions about RS32

From the FLIR RS 32 description: (SRS-M™) is qualified for a MSR semi-automatic platform, up to .30 Cal.

What does MSR stand for?

Can I turn the reticle off for hand held viewing?

Can it be clipped on as well as stand alone?

What is the technology difference between a thermal clip on and a thermal rifle sight all other things being the same (refresh rate etc).?

 

[Victor-TNVC]

From the FLIR RS 32 description: (SRS-M™) is qualified for a MSR semi-automatic platform, up to .30 Cal.

What does MSR stand for? Modern Sporting Riffle (AR-10)

Can I turn the reticle off for hand held viewing? Yes

Can it be clipped on as well as stand alone? No, it's a dedicated stand along weapon site but can be hand held pretty easy, it's surprisingly light.

What is the technology difference between a thermal clip on and a thermal rifle sight all other things being the same (refresh rate etc)? Like NV, this really comes down to the quality of your day scope that can somewhat show how good the image may be with your thermal clip on to some extent. Now IMHO, this factor is more apparent with pure NV devices with day scopes as these are true light amplification devices where's thermal are heat signatures. Thermal is not effected by light environments down range but other factors still play into it. Too much magnification shows pixelation plus too much digital zoom artifacts etc.

Response above.

 

[TTN]

Will it handle a SCAR 17 or a .308/.260 bolt gun (AIAE)?

 

[Hogzillanator]

Response above.

Thanks Victor

I actually just got off the phone with Chip and ordered one with the 35mm lense and 60 hz refresh rate.

Also I'm in for the L3 tubed WASP. I'll wait as long as it takes because I know it's going to be right when you guys release it.



Not that I haven't been thinning them out with my helmet mounted PVS 14 and Trij RSR combo at close range but the Hogs are doomed now!!!!

Regards

 

[P Henry]

Any idea about the height from the top of the pic rail (on the gun) to the centerline of the scope? This would be ideal for the .300 BLK bolt gun I'm building up, but I may have bought the wrong stock by not getting an adjustable cheek riser....doh!

 

[Victor-TNVC]

"The R-Series runs off an internal, rechargeable battery that provides about 4.5 hours of constant operation from a single charge. This helps to reduce the overall weight, size, and cost of the scope."

So this internal battery is it replaceable in the field or does it have to be sent in? Understand there is a way to run it off an external battery also, is this available at time of purchase or something yet to be made? Same battery for all of the models? How long to recharge?
Thank you for any enlightenment on these questions.

Sorry for the delay, between in and out of the office and your post getting lost in the others I did not see it till now.

Battery is not serviceable in the field, will need to go back to FLIR for service.

Aux USB devices will power the camera in the field you can get these at Amazon for under $40 bones. Amazon.com: RAVPower Deluxe External Battery Charger 14000mAh Portable Power Bank Pack for iPhone 5S,5C,5 (Lightning Cable not included), 4S, 4, iPad Air, iPad 4, 3, 2, Mini 2, Mini, iPods; Samsung Galaxy S4, S3, S2, Note 3 Note 2; Nexus 7, Nexus 5, along with a short cable if needed. Amazon.com: C&E CNE20650 6-Feet USB Type A Male Cable, Black: Computers & Accessories

There is a great thread here about these USB alternatives and I really like OldDuet's choice of the AA alternative, very slick. http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?45405-NEW-FLIR-ThermoSight-RS/page2

Also, same battery on all, 4-5 hours to charge.


Sorry again for the delay.

Vic

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Any idea about the height from the top of the pic rail (on the gun) to the centerline of the scope? This would be ideal for the .300 BLK bolt gun I'm building up, but I may have bought the wrong stock by not getting an adjustable cheek riser....doh!

Just about the same as the ACOG, approx. 1.5" high.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Will it handle a SCAR 17 or a .308/.260 bolt gun (AIAE)?

They (FLIR) are not complete with the recoil testing on the SCAR 17's. So far so good I am told. No issue on the bolt blasters you mentioned.

Vic

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Thanks Victor

I actually just got off the phone with Chip and ordered one with the 35mm lense and 60 hz refresh rate.

Also I'm in for the L3 tubed WASP. I'll wait as long as it takes because I know it's going to be right when you guys release it.



Not that I haven't been thinning them out with my helmet mounted PVS 14 and Trij RSR combo at close range but the Hogs are doomed now!!!!

Regards

Thank you for the order and the kind words!

Vic

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Gents and ladies, gonna have some video through the RS in a few weeks. Hopefully with some dead hogs and yotes!

Vic

 

[RHunter]

I'd love to get one of these in a 60mm but what concerns me the most is it's apparent recoil sensitivity. If I am going to shell out $9k for a scope, I want to put that scope on my bolt guns as well. It is hard to justify the expense if it is *maybe* ok on a 308 gas gun. I get the feeling you are aware that the recoil from a 308 is at the upper-end of the recoil tolerance range.

What exactly happens to the scope if it was mounted on a braked 30-06 bolt gun when fired? Does the recoil render it useless? Isn't there anything you guys can do to harden these things that is economically feasible and still allow you to accomplish the price points you are looking for?

Another problem I have with buying something new is, every time I buy some new product I end up being the guinea pig for feedback. Everything I and others complain about gets fixed in version 2 of the product and I am stuck with a version 1 product that has lost most of its value. It is a real turn off to buying a NPO and it gets a little expensive testing a product when I am the one who takes the financial loss. I am going through that now with a new $6,000 weapon platform, thankfully the company has been absolutely stellar regarding the issues and has even gone as far as made me part of the new product testing. It is pretty rare to find a company willing to invest in the testing of a new product as extensively as that one is and really stand behind their product.

Some companies are good about replacing or upgrading the version 1 product once they discover the first offering had some serious flaws, other companies tell you to go pound sand. I can appreciate the statement above where skypup said he is not going to release the product until it is right, but believe me, me, and every other serious weapons aficionado has heard this before. Even the best of companies with the best reputations and intentions have had the occasional aw shit where the consumer was left holding the bag.

My gut feeling, due to your lack of hard-core published facts about the recoil sensitivity, is telling me to sit this NPO out until you guys can provide some additional confidence and concrete clarity on the recoil tolerance and others get the pleasure of being the guinea pigs rather than me this time.

I sincerely hope you guys are extremely honest with your consumers about the quality and functionality of this NPO because for a lot of guys, this is a big spend and I would hate to see anyone spend this kind of money for a product that is not ready for prime time.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Hi RHunter, I reported this on another forum when asked about recoil. I too wanted facts early on with recoil and we have talked with the FLIR folks about this and one that will be with me in a few weeks for a hunt. Presently the units are rated up to and including a 7.62 x 54 NATO. It does not distinguishing between bolt or gas guns. They're also finishing up recoil testing on the SCAR heavy with no issues to this point I'm told.

With TNVC, I feel our customer service reputation proceeds us, no one is ever "left holding the bag," but I definitely get your concerns and thank you for the input!


Vic

 

[RHunter]

7.62 x 54 NATO

I was not aware there was a 7.62x54 NATO, I thought that was a Russian round.

Just jerking your chain..... Its 7.62x51 NATO

From what I have seen in what they published, they mention gas operated, they do not mention bolt guns. There is a big difference in the recoil pulse between the two. That needs some clarification.

I am sure your reputation is a stellar one, but you can only do so much short of a refund. If the manufacturer does not support you then it will be hard for you to support your customers without going broke. Problems arise in gray areas and this recoil situation is a gray area that is in need of more extensive clarification or a warranty that covers recoil issues... Which I doubt they will do because they will never know what gun the scope was placed on....

So it would be nice to hear from the horses mouth and see something more concrete in their promotional materials as well as the product warranty rather than just hearsay. I.E. first time you screw it up from recoil the company fixes it, the second time you pay to have it fixed. In that situation you will learn in a hurry what not to put this thing on but you have one get out of jail free card that gives you the ability to try it out without making $9K go *poof*

 

[SkyPup]

The SCAR Heavy has a reputation for destroying more optics (not thermal but day optics) than any other rig, if the RS series thermals handle the recoil from them you can be sure your bolt guns can handle it as well.

I plan on using my FLIR RS-64 with 60mm lens on a Ruger #1 in 7mm Rem Mag with handloads if that is any consolation to your concerns....

 

[RHunter]

The SCAR Heavy has a reputation for destroying more optics (not thermal but day optics) than any other rig, if the RS series thermals handle the recoil from them you can be sure your bolt guns can handle it as well.

Not so sure, I have destroyed my share of optics on bolt guns trying to save a buck back in the day. I know the SCAR had a real problem with some of the SOPMOD optics that have since been fixed and any other issues I have heard have always been with lesser quality optics and/or usually the destruction came with illuminated optics with batteries in them like the Eotech.

@ $9500 for the high res 60mm unit, you can appreciate my concern.

Does Flir have the terms of their warranty published yet? I am not talking about the mention of the 2 year, 3 year, 10 year disclosure, I am referring to the small print portion of the product warranty.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

I was not aware there was a 7.62x54 NATO, I thought that was a Russian round.

Just jerking your chain..... Its 7.62x51 NATO

From what I have seen in what they published, they mention gas operated, they do not mention bolt guns. There is a big difference in the recoil pulse between the two. That needs some clarification.

I am sure your reputation is a stellar one, but you can only do so much short of a refund. If the manufacturer does not support you then it will be hard for you to support your customers without going broke. Problems arise in gray areas and this recoil situation is a gray area that is in need of more extensive clarification or a warranty that covers recoil issues... Which I doubt they will do because they will never know what gun the scope was placed on....

So it would be nice to hear from the horses mouth and see something more concrete in their promotional materials as well as the product warranty rather than just hearsay. I.E. first time you screw it up from recoil the company fixes it, the second time you pay to have it fixed. In that situation you will learn in a hurry what not to put this thing on but you have one get out of jail free card that gives you the ability to try it out without making $9K go *poof*

Sorry, my fault on the typo with 7.62 x 54....Fat fingers on my Android Note 3...I HATE TEXTING!!

So you know, we are a major distributor with FLIR products, but not just an optic clearing house. Coupled with that, I'm sure you're aware FLIR is a heavy hitter in the market place and we have never had them even hint at not supporting us with any issues that may surface. We do not use the normal customer service channels if we need assistance with something like this that you describe. Trust me on this Brother, we have very special relationships with all our manufactures and that is a reason they send us products way in advance to test and evaluate and support us like no others. We've been in business now over 7 years and going super strong, and God willing we have not gone broke yet due to any major manufactures we distribute for.

LDI is also one of those heavy hitter companies as well. When the Class 1 DBAL-I2 units first came out, there was a battery drain issue that was discovered on some of the units a year later. We made those announcements and all customers were taken care of through us and/or LDI. Electronics fail and all parts at times even with our own PVS-14 line, but the important thing is to align yourself with a company who has a solid reputation and relationship with manufactures like the ones I mentioned. In these cases, you the consumer is always protected and your hard earned dollar investment is also protected.

Thanks again for your post Rhunter and bringing out my spelling blunder!!

Vic

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Not so sure, I have destroyed my share of optics on bolt guns trying to save a buck back in the day. I know the SCAR had a real problem with some of the SOPMOD optics that have since been fixed and any other issues I have heard have always been with lesser quality optics and/or usually the destruction came with illuminated optics with batteries in them like the Eotech.

@ $9500 for the high res 60mm unit, you can appreciate my concern.

Does Flir have the terms of their warranty published yet? I am not talking about the mention of the 2 year, 3 year, 10 year disclosure, I am referring to the small print portion of the product warranty.

You bet I do appreciate the concern. As stated the RS is still undergoing test with the SCAR and so far everything has passed. If it does or does not pass, I will sure insure the recoil warranty publishing is accurate with the 7.62 x 51 along with including the SCAR yea or nay when it's complete.

Vic

 

[SkyPup]

FLIR RS Thermal Weapon Scopes warranty -> 2 Years Standard, 3 Years (with registration), 10 Years (thermal sensor only)

 

[wigwamitus]

Hum, I had a PVS-14 and a PS-32 in the budget for this summer. This RS-32 thingy will cause a rethink. Hard to turn down 7.62 semi-auto recoil for another $1k and a 4x zoom instead of PS-32 2x zoom.

 

[RHunter]

FLIR RS Thermal Weapon Scopes warranty -> 2 Years Standard, 3 Years (with registration), 10 Years (thermal sensor only)

I know this part, it is the fine print of the warranty I am after.

Coupled with that, I'm sure you're aware FLIR is a heavy hitter in the market place

Of course.

I have been researching thermals for a couple years and have not really seen anything that would make me get off the porch yet. Either I did not like the features or the size/layout, or the price.

This is more in-line with what I wanted to find. I am not overly thrilled with the battery issue but I get why they did it.

I'd like to know how many charges the battery is rated for. I KNOW IT LASTS 4 HOURS... The quality of the battery determines how many times it can be drained and recharged before it will no longer take a charge. That is the info I am after.

Like I said, @ $9500 for the high res 60mm unit, you can appreciate my concern.

 

[SkyPup]

Here is a graph of the FLIR Tau 2 640 17 micron thermal core, the 320 core will be 1/4 the range of the 640:

This should help you to make a decision on which FLIR RS thermal scope version is right for you

 

[solocam]

Another problem I have with buying something new is, every time I buy some new product I end up being the guinea pig for feedback. Everything I and others complain about gets fixed in version 2 of the product and I am stuck with a version 1 product that has lost most of its value. It is a real turn off to buying a NPO and it gets a little expensive testing a product when I am the one who takes the financial loss. Some companies are good about replacing or upgrading the version 1 product once they discover the first offering had some serious flaws, other companies tell you to go pound sand.

This is my biggest concern. I have been bit by this in the past too. Currently saving to buy the RS-32. Wondering if I should wait until the next revision though?

 

[SkyPup]

That seems to be more of a matter of personal preference than it is with any product design or roll out.

If you have a serious land management problem with hogs or coyotes, do you think they will wait for Revision 2 when it comes out in 2018?

To date, none of my FLIR thermal weapon scopes have depreciated in value over concerns regarding future upgrades, in fact they hold their value strongly simply because they are valuable instruments that perform a valuable function as a valuable tool.

If you purchase some third party thermal put together with parts and pieces from a dozen different manufacturers and places, then you probably have some valid concern about your investment as no one really knows what is in it or how long it will function and hold its value as new parts are swapped around and a new model released every year.

The FLIR RS thermal weapon sight is 100% FLIR inside and out and backed by their guarantee, their thermal microbolometer has a MTBF of >13,000 hrs of actual practical use with a 90% confidence interval, so I personally am not worried about buying a new FLIR product.

Everything your ever purchase is going to be superseded by something else new.

 

[SkyPup]

We will be testing all these units out in the field on some hogs and coyotes next weekend if weather permits, ah hell even if the weather is crappy we'll test them out.

RS-32 1.25-5 320X240 19mm $ 3,999
RS-32 2.25-9 320X240 35mm $ 4,499
RS-32 4-16 320X340 60mm $ 7,499
RS-64 1.1-9 640X480 35mm $ 6,499
RS-64 2-16 640X480 60mm $ 8,999

Video and pics and reviews to follow....

 

[Southernman13]

Were wanting to purchase one as well. Looking at the RS32 2.5x9. Mounting on a S&W M&P 308 for hogs. Just not sure if we should step up to the 640 resolution for 2 more grand. Is it worth it. Thanks

 

[ashooter]

Here is a graph of the FLIR Tau 2 640 17 micron thermal core, the 320 core will be 1/4 the range of the 640:

This should help you to make a decision on which FLIR RS thermal scope version is right for you

So, if I understand you, with the RS-32 with 35mm lens I should be able to see a hog and/or yearling calf at about 240 yards and tell which is which at about 60 yards?

That actually kinda sucks.

 

[SkyPup]

What kind of experience do you have with thermals?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk?

 

[ashooter]

What kind of experience do you have with thermals?

Almost none. I played with another guy's FLIR M24 for about 10 minutes one night, and that's the extent of it.

I didn't mean to sound like a smart-ass. Those distances just seem pretty limited. I have used ANVIS-9's and several PVS-14's and I can almost get that much range out of them... dependent on (limited by) ambient light levels, of course. It just seems like thermals ought to work better than that.

Did I misunderstand the "detect" vs. "recognize" distances for the 320 core 35mm scope?

 

[SkyPup]

For hog/cow detection with a 320 core/35mm lens it would be out past 500+ meters and for shooting a little less than 1/2 that. It takes some experience behind a thermal scope though to be able to utilize it properly. You would detect allot more with a thermal than any NV would find though no matter what.

 

[ashooter]

For hog/cow detection with a 320 core/35mm lens it would be out past 500+ meters and for shooting a little less than 1/2 that. It takes some experience behind a thermal scope though to be able to utilize it properly. You would detect allot more with a thermal than any NV would find though no matter what.

That sounds a LOT better! When you said the 320 core would be "1/4 the range of the 640", I just figured the 640 data in the chart X 0.25. I guess that was not correct extrapolation, huh?

Have you ever messed with a Raytheon W1000-9? That's another option I'm considering in the same price range. Both have features I like and dislike.

Thanks

 

[Southernman13]

Are the RS Series shipping yet