Rifle Scopes New for 2023 Optics

[carbonbased]

So 10 mil turrets on ZCO, a TT 7-35, a MK5 2-10 with shitty reticle options, and a Chinese 15x bino with a reticle is all we got this year?

There is that Element Theos 6-36x56 with tool-less turrets, capped windage, and 10m close focus. Decent mrad reticle. Sorta interesting. ILya said he’ll be doing a in-depth review later in the year.

Theos Riflescope - Element Optics | Premium Riflescopes & Optics

THEOS has entered the room - Created through a three year process of meticulous planning, careful crafting and brutal testing. With ...

element-optics.com

But yeah. Slim pickin’s boys.

 

[Squibbler]

If anyone is going to the Tangent booth ask them nicely if they would please offer their other reticle choices in their hunter model TT315H. Thanks

 

[Reload10]

No nx6 Nightforce?

 

[adavis1138]

No nx6 Nightforce?

New Line of Nightforce Products?

As an admirer of extremely well made (and designed) products, I truly appreciate the build quality and repeatably of Nightforce. So, I am continuously searching for the slightest hint of the latest product releases from Nightforce. In my latest search, I came across this annual report about...

rokslide.com

I think we just need to be patient, the thread above shows NX6 was trademarked in 2019.

 

[shark3-1]

No nx6 Nightforce?

I was really hoping this would be true!

 

[brianf]

nightforce isnt what it used to be, and i still have a bunch

new vortex offerings are just as good at a lower price point and NF isnt as good as a ZCO

but a used ZCO for the same price as new NF and get better glass

 

[GenericBadGuy]

We have ideas for the future. We'll do our best to execute.

If it helps, I can shoot more Federal 9mm.

 

[Conqueror]

That new March 1-10 just might get me to bite. I couldn’t get over the goofy-ass mounting situation on the last one. The turrets look good too.

 

[shark3-1]

nightforce isnt what it used to be, and i still have a bunch

new vortex offerings are just as good at a lower price point and NF isnt as good as a ZCO

but a used ZCO for the same price as new NF and get better glass

I’d love to know where I could grab a used ZCO for less than a new nightforce.

 

[TheOE800]

I’d love to know where I could grab a used ZCO for less than a new nightforce.

A 5-27 or 4-20 should cost used about what a new ATACR 7-35 is at retail.

 

[rothgyr]

A 5-27 or 4-20 should cost used about what a new ATACR 7-35 is at retail.

Who's the dumbarse paying full retail on an ATACR? Just buy a used ATACR at $2500.

 

[Gasgun]

Who's the dumbarse paying full retail on an ATACR? Just buy a used ATACR at $2500.

Used? Hell, in the last month I bought a new 4-16 ATACR with the T3 reticle shipped for less than that from a vendor here on the ‘Hide.

I spent weeks trying to find a used ZCO 4-20 for even close to that.

 

[CSTactical]

Used? Hell, in the last month I bought a new 4-16 ATACR with the T3 reticle shipped for less than that from a vendor here on the ‘Hide.

I spent weeks trying to find a used ZCO 4-20 for even close to that.

If I find a used ZC420 at that price I’ll buy it personally…

 

[TheOE800]

Again the only ATACR in the price range of a ZCO is the 7-35. A 4-16 with T3 retails for ~$1000 less than any ZCO.

 

[RFutch]

NF NX6:

I was really hoping this would be true!

Nope. Went by there today. Asked the rep about it and he laughed.

 

[adavis1138]

NF NX6:

Nope. Went by there today. Asked the rep about it and he laughed.

damn lol

 

[PistoleroJesse]

NF NX6:

Nope. Went by there today. Asked the rep about it and he laughed.

My bank account is saved.

 

[Glassaholic]

NF NX6:

Nope. Went by there today. Asked the rep about it and he laughed.

Did they have anything new?

 

[RFutch]

Did they have anything new?

I asked that too. He said the new FDE color was it.

 

[Glassaholic]

I asked that too. He said the new FDE color was it.

The NX8’s were announced outside of SHOT IIRC so I suppose there’s that possibility later this year. The only thing NF doesn’t have covered well is the MPVO, so would still like to see an NX8 1.5-12x42 at some point. Until then, I think the only thing holding back the March FFP 1.5-15x42 from owning this market is the price. Of course we have to wait to see how well a 10x erector MPVO will actually perform.

 

[TheOE800]

I asked that too. He said the new FDE color was it.

 

[Glassaholic]

There is that Element Theos 6-36x56 with tool-less turrets, capped windage, and 10m close focus. Decent mrad reticle. Sorta interesting. ILya said he’ll be doing a in-depth review later in the year.

Theos Riflescope - Element Optics | Premium Riflescopes & Optics

THEOS has entered the room - Created through a three year process of meticulous planning, careful crafting and brutal testing. With ...

element-optics.com

But yeah. Slim pickin’s boys.

Looks like redneck got it right, not much in regard to net new optics and we shouldn’t be too surprised, with the economy tanking it’s hitting everything hard. Sure there will be some who grab the new TT but at a cost that will be upwards of close to $6k (I’m guessing) that will be tough for many, especially when things like the grocery budget has gone up 3x past couple years and older kids who were going to go out on their own are realizing they can’t afford it and coming back to live with mom and dad (don’t ask me how I know). Kudos to companies who went out on a limb to R&D a net new design - TT, March, Steiner and Leupold (even though Leupold totally Leupolded it) and smart of Zeiss and Element and some others to capitalize on the Japanese OEM opportunities to put out more budget oriented options. Other companies making slight tweaks to existing products like ZCO’s new turret and reticles, March’s new Ninja (Shuriken) locking turret that is near TT quality with regard to distinct clicks and minimal play. And finally, kudos to Schmidt & Bender for continuing their legacy of delivering years after announcing (a little bit of sarcasm there) and announcing a scope no one really asked for (10-60?). As much as I hoped there would be “more” released this year I am thankful for what we have, our sport has never seen such an amazing lineup of products and new innovations are popping up frequently, yes, things cost a bit more but that’s our world right now unfortunately.

 

[beetroot]

New Line of Nightforce Products?

As an admirer of extremely well made (and designed) products, I truly appreciate the build quality and repeatably of Nightforce. So, I am continuously searching for the slightest hint of the latest product releases from Nightforce. In my latest search, I came across this annual report about...

rokslide.com

I think we just need to be patient, the thread above shows NX6 was trademarked in 2019.

Patiently wait for a scope that only exists as rumors on gun forum?

And not even good rumors, more like wishful thinking rather than rumors.

 

[carbonbased]

Looks like redneck got it right,

Who you callin’ redneck, pardner? Lol

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I was really hoping for some decent MPVO options since the LHT 4.5-22 on my Fix isn't the most ideal setup, I had high hopes for the MK5 2-10 when I first heard about it but they managed to release it with shit reticle options. Ohh well.

 

[shark3-1]

I was really hoping for some decent MPVO options since the LHT 4.5-22 on my Fix isn't the most ideal setup, I had high hopes for the MK5 2-10 when I first heard about it but they managed to release it with shit reticle options. Ohh well.

Same here. I was really looking forward to seeing some decent MPVO options for my Fix. I’d love to move away from the ~30oz setups, but apparently there isn’t a market.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Same here. I was really looking forward to seeing some decent MPVO options for my Fix. I’d love to move away from the ~30oz setups, but apparently there isn’t a market.

mvpo....lol how about all the shit that already exists that is in the 3-20 power. wheel reinvention time

 

[redneckbmxer24]

mvpo....lol how about all the shit that already exists that is in the 3-20 power. wheel reinvention time

They’re all either heavy, long, or don’t lend themselves well to lower magnification range use, or all of the above. There’s absolutely a market for MPVO optics. Not everyone wants a massive heavy optic for PRS shit.

The LRHS 3-12 was about perfect but bushy is more interested in some niche chinesium 15x binos with a reticle than bringing back an optic that GAP can’t keep the less desirable 4.5-18 version of in stock and used 3-12’s sell for 25-50% more than they used to sell at retailers for.

March could do it too but they’re more interested in making 10x+ erector optics that end up having shitty eye box’s.

ATACR 4-16, S&B 5-20 US, and MK5 3.6-18 are about the best options out there right now all which could be better for MPVO application.

 

[Team RCBS & Bushnell]

LRHS is ~28 ounces and over 14" long. It's longer than the DMR3. It's only 1/2" shorter than the XRS3. Far as I'm aware, GAP put in one order for the LRSH2 and I'm not sure if they're doing more. You'd have to contact them to see if they have more on the way.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

LRHS is ~28 ounces and over 14" long. It's longer than the DMR3. It's only 1/2" shorter than the XRS3. Far as I'm aware, GAP put in one order for the LRSH2 and hasn't reordered. That's why they are out of stock.

LRHS 3-12 was 13” and 24oz, I had several of them and sold them like a fool.

DMR3 is 35oz and the reticle combined with magnification range makes it absolutely useless in low light. No thanks.

 

[PappyM3]

They’re all either heavy, long, or don’t lend themselves well to lower magnification range use, or all of the above. There’s absolutely a market for MPVO optics. Not everyone wants a massive heavy optic for PRS shit.

The LRHS 3-12 was about perfect but bushy is more interested in some niche chinesium 15x binos with a reticle than bringing back an optic that GAP can’t keep the less desirable 4.5-18 version of in stock and used 3-12’s sell for 25-50% more than they used to sell at retailers for.

March could do it too but they’re more interested in making 10x+ erector optics that end up having shitty eye box’s.

ATACR 4-16, S&B 5-20 US, and MK5 3.6-18 are about the best options out there right now all which could be better for MPVO application.

Mostly agreed, but I think March’s 1-10 shorty and 1.5-15 DFP optics are fantastic options in the high top-end LPVO/MPVO realm. The high magnification erector and eye box are a trade space. It works for some, doesn’t work for others. But they are still good options with adjustable parallax, useable low magnification, and reasonable weights. Again, just a trade space choice. But yes, it would be nice to see viable alternative options that are also light and useable at the low end magnification.

 

[blindspotter]

Apex optics announced their hunter scope that's potentially interesting. 3-15x44, 30mm tube, Japanese, available with illum, modern tree style reticle, 24 oz, $1400 (not sure if that's CAD or USD).

 

[shark3-1]

mvpo....lol how about all the shit that already exists that is in the 3-20 power. wheel reinvention time

I think the weight of the system is the missing link here. While there are PLENTY of 50mm+ objectives, 15mil+ revolution turrets, 34mm, 35mm, or even 36mm main tubes, and 8x zoom ranges, there seems to be incredibly few options for a FFP scope with mil/mil features below the 25oz mark.

 

[Glassaholic]

Who you callin’ redneck, pardner? Lol

I was referring to @redneckbmxer24 but if the shoe fits

 

[Glassaholic]

I think the weight of the system is the missing link here. While there are PLENTY of 50mm+ objectives, 15mil+ revolution turrets, 34mm, 35mm, or even 36mm main tubes, and 8x zoom ranges, there seems to be incredibly few options for a FFP scope with mil/mil features below the 25oz mark.

That's right, the mfr's think they have this covered without realizing the component of weight and reticle - finding the magic combination of the right weight, right magnification range and right reticle has been the challenge for those of us looking for a proper MPVO optic. Maybe it's helpful to identify exactly what we're talking about with different scope categories (all FFP):

1. LPVO = magnified optic that starts between1-1.1x and under 22oz
2. MPVO = magnified optic that starts between 1.2 - 2.5x and under 25oz
3. Medium Range Optic (MRO) = magnified optic that starts between 2.6 - 4.0x and under 32oz
4. Long Range Optic (LRO) = magnified optic that starts between 4.1 - 5.5x
5. Extreme Long Range Optic (ELRO) = magnified optic that starts above 5.5x

This is a generalized rule and not a hard fast rule, some optics can span multiple categories. Then there's the issue of FOV, please don't give us a soda straw or tunneling optic (like the Bushnell DMR 3.5-21 or NF ATACR 4-20 where some optics that start at 4.5x have greater FOV), we have to have generous FOV throughout the range. One other consideration is length, now that NV and Thermal clipons are becoming much more prolific (as costs come down) mfr's need to consider that shorter scopes are necessary in order to "clip on" the device in front of the daytime scope.

How often are the March 3-24 and LHT 4.5-22 scopes looked at simply for the weight, but rejected due to other issues. March addressed the low power part by introducing the FML-TR1H reticle with the circle/donut of death feature last year, this is a fantastic reticle but the 3-24 design is rather limited on FOV and the optical quality above 18x suffers somewhat. The LHT mag range is a head scratcher, why start at 4.5 when a lot of hunters (assuming this was designed for crossover community) are wanting a bit more FOV at the bottom, even a 4-20 would have been better. I've thought an MPVO version of the LHT FFP would come out that was something like a 2.5-12x42 that weighed just under 20oz but again, the reticle has to be right where you have a really bright center dot or donut for easy acquisition at lower magnifications, but have proper subtension detail and tree for longer range purposes. This last part, the reticle, is where many mfr's appear to either not understand or simply drop the ball. Bushnell's G2H was ahead of it's time when they introduced the donut of death, March now has the FML-TR1H and it would be nice to see other manufacturers follow suit, take queues from effective LPVO reticles and blend those with current long range reticles and you're on to something.

Of all the scopes released this year the March FFP 1.5-15x42 appears to have the most promise to actually fulfilling on all the above, yes it's a little heavier than I would have wanted at 24oz but it's within reason given the huge magnification range. The last new FFP from March was the 4.5-28x52 which is a very impressive scope so hoping March took queues from the successes of this design. These scopes are supposed to ship in a month or two so hopefully we'll be finding out soon, I got in on an early order so once I get mine I will share initial thoughts and then do a full review.

 

[Denys]

That's right, the mfr's think they have this covered without realizing the component of weight and reticle - finding the magic combination of the right weight, right magnification range and right reticle has been the challenge for those of us looking for a proper MPVO optic. Maybe it's helpful to identify exactly what we're talking about with different scope categories (all FFP):

1. LPVO = magnified optic that starts between1-1.1x and under 22oz
2. MPVO = magnified optic that starts between 1.2 - 2.5x and under 25oz
3. Medium Range Optic (MRO) = magnified optic that starts between 2.6 - 4.0x and under 32oz
4. Long Range Optic (LRO) = magnified optic that starts between 4.1 - 5.5x
5. Extreme Long Range Optic (ELRO) = magnified optic that starts above 5.5x

This is a generalized rule and not a hard fast rule, some optics can span multiple categories. Then there's the issue of FOV, please don't give us a soda straw or tunneling optic (like the Bushnell DMR 3.5-21 or NF ATACR 4-20 where some optics that start at 4.5x have greater FOV), we have to have generous FOV throughout the range. One other consideration is length, now that NV and Thermal clipons are becoming much more prolific (as costs come down) mfr's need to consider that shorter scopes are necessary in order to "clip on" the device in front of the daytime scope.

How often are the March 3-24 and LHT 4.5-22 scopes looked at simply for the weight, but rejected due to other issues. March addressed the low power part by introducing the FML-TR1H reticle with the circle/donut of death feature last year, this is a fantastic reticle but the 3-24 design is rather limited on FOV and the optical quality above 18x suffers somewhat. The LHT mag range is a head scratcher, why start at 4.5 when a lot of hunters (assuming this was designed for crossover community) are wanting a bit more FOV at the bottom, even a 4-20 would have been better. I've thought an MPVO version of the LHT FFP would come out that was something like a 2.5-12x42 that weighed just under 20oz but again, the reticle has to be right where you have a really bright center dot or donut for easy acquisition at lower magnifications, but have proper subtension detail and tree for longer range purposes. This last part, the reticle, is where many mfr's appear to either not understand or simply drop the ball. Bushnell's G2H was ahead of it's time when they introduced the donut of death, March now has the FML-TR1H and it would be nice to see other manufacturers follow suit, take queues from effective LPVO reticles and blend those with current long range reticles and you're on to something.

Of all the scopes released this year the March FFP 1.5-15x42 appears to have the most promise to actually fulfilling on all the above, yes it's a little heavier than I would have wanted at 24oz but it's within reason given the huge magnification range. The last new FFP from March was the 4.5-28x52 which is a very impressive scope so hoping March took queues from the successes of this design. These scopes are supposed to ship in a month or two so hopefully we'll be finding out soon, I got in on an early order so once I get mine I will share initial thoughts and then do a full review.

Perhaps for consistency's sake, we could use LPVO, MPVO, MRVO, LRVO, and EVRO. Now we are in thick alphabet soup territory.

Once we have the nomenclature sorted out, we can then argue about the parameters for each and then we will find that overlaps abound. At that time, some smart donkey will say, "I know Venn it's time to start using diagrams, and that time is now."

I'm not sure you're using the word "queues" properly here. March has queues in its orders because they usually build to specific orders. They do take cues from their successes, (I hope) and also from their customers and general public comments.

 

[Langford]

The March 1.5-15 is very intriguing, I’m just worried they are trying to put too much into one package…10x zoom ratio in an ultrashort package. I’ve never used a March, so I’m just speculating…but I’m concerned about a tight eye box, flat image, usable reticle, etc. If it does all of these things well, it’ll be one of my next few scope purchases.

Seems like a 5-6x zoom ratio scope in a slightly longer body would be easier to get “perfect”.

 

[PappyM3]

The March 1.5-15 is very intriguing, I’m just worried they are trying to put too much into one package…10x zoom ratio in an ultrashort package. I’ve never used a March, so I’m just speculating…but I’m concerned about a tight eye box, flat image, usable reticle, etc. If it does all of these things well, it’ll be one of my next few scope purchases.

Seems like a 5-6x zoom ratio scope in a slightly longer body would be easier to get “perfect”.

I obviously don’t have one in my hand yet, but:

It will likely have a narrow depth of field and you’ll be using the parallax knob more frequently. I’m guessing the eye box is a little tight too.

The reticle, on the dual focal plane one seems very usable. Duplex crosshairs with a red dot at all magnification ranges on the second focal plane, and then mil hashes and Christmas tree on the first focal plane.

It may not be great for multi gun or PRS matches, but for normal use in the woods. I bet it’s great.

 

[Schaaf]

LRHS is ~28 ounces and over 14" long. It's longer than the DMR3. It's only 1/2" shorter than the XRS3. Far as I'm aware, GAP put in one order for the LRSH2 and I'm not sure if they're doing more. You'd have to contact them to see if they have more on the way.

 

[Glassaholic]

I'm not sure you're using the word "queues" properly here. March has queues in its orders because they usually build to specific orders. They do take cues from their successes, (I hope) and also from their customers and general public comments.

Yep, cues is what I meant, thought something looked off

 

[LeftyJason]

Yep, cues is what I meant, thought something looked off

At least you didn't do quay. BTW pronounced key.

 

[lead ƒarmer]

We have ideas for the future. We'll do our best to execute.

PLEASE do! The competition and LR hunting crowd is dying to have a 12x (or even better -15x) RF bingo with built in ballistics

 

[carbonbased]

PLEASE do! The competition and LR hunting crowd is dying to have a 12x (or even better -15x) RF bingo with built in ballistics

Just throwing this out there, but for hunting varmints what works for me is the Leica 15x LRF binos plus a coletac cheat sheet. I know it isn’t exactly what you want, you probably are aware, but just mentioning it for others.

The Leica’s LRF was quite recently upgraded (I have the older model) while the optics stayed the same.

Some dis the optics but I am very pleased.

 

[Slateman]

I'm just here to throw my support for light(er)weight MPVOs. Particularly if it can have low profile turrets.

I'm just finding more and more that I would much rather have an offset/piggy back MRDS than any 1x setting on an LPVO.

 

[Denys]

That new March 1-10 just might get me to bite. I couldn’t get over the goofy-ass mounting situation on the last one. The turrets look good too.

Well, the cat is finally out of the bag. March just posted a note confirming the upcoming release of a 34mm 1-10X24 DR or FFP, with shuriken locks. Details to follow.

4 New models for 2023 from March Scopes | Exhibitions | MARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design CorporationMARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design Corporation

MARCH Scopes Official Site

marchscopes.com

 

[Secant]

Apex optics announced their hunter scope that's potentially interesting. 3-15x44, 30mm tube, Japanese, available with illum, modern tree style reticle, 24 oz, $1400 (not sure if that's CAD or USD).

Where did you see that it was made in Japan and 24oz? I looked around but couldn't find it.

Anyone have any extra information on this? Anyone out there using prototypes?

 

[blindspotter]

Where did you see that it was made in Japan and 24oz? I looked around but couldn't find it.

 

[nrspence]

 

[Realwar]

I’d love to know where I could grab a used ZCO for less than a new nightforce.

I just recently bought a slightly used ZCO 5-27x56 MPCT3X for $3k shipped. You just gotta keep your eyes peeled on some of the big forums and auction places.

 

[BCP]

Any new cool cheap scopes for us Peasants? Leupolds with donkey knobs and Zeta Optics Ultra No Compromises 6899$ lineup don't appeal to me lol.