Advanced Marksmanship New Guy Question RE: Tools for Range Estimation

[jackvance]

First off: thanks for taking the time to look at my question. I have learned alot on this forum...great resource.

I have read the forum for some time now, used the search function and I am still left with a few questions. I suspect the one below is a training question for someone who is new to long range shooting:

What are the pro/cons of using a mil dot spotting scope as the primary passive range estimation tool for long range competitions? In other words, go to a comp, use the spotting scope to do the range estimation.

Why do I ask: I have a Rem 40x .308 and a Leupold 6.5-20 duplex...gifts from my parents. They have sat in the gunsafe for years. I wonder if just getting a spotting scope and learning to mil dot range with one of them makes more sense than buying a new scope before I really know what I like/want/need for getting into long range shooting competitions. I figure it is always a plus to have a spotting scope down the road and it will not be a wasted purchase.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[Lindy]

Re: New Guy Question RE: Tools for Range Estimation

There is nothing inherently wrong with that strategy, but it has some disadvantages.

One is that you have to carry the spotting scope around, as well as a tripod sufficient to stabilize it sufficiently for accurate ranging. If a prone position is possible with a rifle, it's often easier to get the rifle stable than it is a spotting scope.

And competitions which have stages requiring movement, sometimes over obstacles, may make it difficult or highly disadvantageous to carry the scope and tripod at all.

Another is time. Many competitions will not allow you sufficient time to set up a spotting scope, range the target, then switch to your rifle to make the shot.

I recommmend that you spend your money on training and ammunition instead. If, after some experience in competition, you decide that you want a spotting scope, you'll have a better idea of what you want.

 

[KNIGHT11B4]

Re: New Guy Question RE: Tools for Range Estimation

If your goal is to shoot in tactical competitions then I would dump the duplex and go to a mil based optic. As Lindy stated, the ammount of time required to setup, adjust and correctly range a target is far greater then what you will be given in a comp. By running with a mil optic on your rifle you will also reduce time switching between optics and more importantly... you gain the ability to hold for wind and moving targets which you are sure to encounter.

 

[tnichols]

Re: New Guy Question RE: Tools for Range Estimation

I decided this winter to set a target (unknown range) drive back, range it with the mildot reticle on my scope, use a Mil-dot Master, and put a first round hit on it (this is not on a "range", but in the middle of nowhere). Where I'm going with this is, the mildot system is fine out to 6-7 hundred yards, after that, depending on target size, it becomes difficult to range accurately (without being trained on the mil-dot system). For competition, I would use a quality mil-dot scope and a Palm/I Touch program to help you out. A quality range finder would be a must. If you can't range it and call the wind, you won't hit it. Just my opinion, I'm wrong alot.

 

[KNIGHT11B4]

Re: New Guy Question RE: Tools for Range Estimation

Its true that without a lot of practice and a true understanding of mils it is difficult to engage targets at far distances...but definitly not imposible.

I stick to mostly military and swat/police run comps but in my experience most will not allow the use of a range finder (some will but most wont), and again a Palm or simular device is time consuming.

Anyone can do it with a computer, it takes skill and pratice to make you a professional. Take the short cuts early and you will come up short in the long run... Just my opinion.... Learn the way of the mil.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: New Guy Question RE: Tools for Range Estimation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is nothing inherently wrong with that strategy, but it has some disadvantages.

One is that you have to carry the spotting scope around, as well as a tripod sufficient to stabilize it sufficiently for accurate ranging. If a prone position is possible with a rifle, it's often easier to get the rifle stable than it is a spotting scope.

And competitions which have stages requiring movement, sometimes over obstacles, may make it difficult or highly disadvantageous to carry the scope and tripod at all.

Another is time. Many competitions will not allow you sufficient time to set up a spotting scope, range the target, then switch to your rifle to make the shot.

I recommmend that you spend your money on training and ammunition instead. If, after some experience in competition, you decide that you want a spotting scope, you'll have a better idea of what you want.
</div></div>

jackvaance,

This is advice worthy of your attentiion. Get some training for a perspective based on an understanding for what's really important rather than what you are now perceiving to be important.

 

[Johnsusername]

Re: New Guy Question RE: Tools for Range Estimation

Jack,
The Leupold Duplex has a range estimation ability built in.
Download an owners manual from Leupold.

It's not as accurate as mildot but it's better than nothing.


John

 

[Lindy]

Re: New Guy Question RE: Tools for Range Estimation

Anyone contemplating tactical competitions would be well advised to get a scope with a graduated reticle, preferably in the first focal-plane, where it can be used for holdovers, holdunders, moving target leads, and wind holds.

A duplex reticle is simply a handicap in those competitions.

The best thing for Jack to do may be to sell that scope with the duplex reticle, and buy one more suited to that kind of competition, or explore a reticle swap with Leupold.

There's lots of advice on this site about less expensive scopes, which a search will turn up.

Sniper's Hide Search

 

[Rifles Only]

Re: New Guy Question RE: Tools for Range Estimation

First purchase:
FFP mil/mil scope.
Second purchase:
quality LRF.

 

[BigBrother]

Re: New Guy Question RE: Tools for Range Estimation

Yeah, a reticle swap might be your most cost effective solution, at least on which to learn

 

[jackvance]

Re: New Guy Question RE: Tools for Range Estimation

Thank you all for the advice. I appreciate the help.