New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

[jrob300]

Hornady has released 7 new BTHP Match bullets using their new AMP jackets.

http://www.hornady.com/store/Match-newbullets/

New bullets include:

6mm .243 105 GR BTHP Match BC .530
6.5mm .264 140 GR BTHP Match BC .580
7mm .284 162 GR BTHP Match BC Unknown
30 Cal .308 178 GR BTHP Match BC Unknown
30 Cal .308 208 GR BTHP Match BC Unknown
30 Cal .308 225 GR BTHP Match BC Unknown
338 Cal .338 285 GR BTHP Match BC .720

Note: These are NOT Amax's, but according to the press release Amax's will get the same new jacket technology. This might account for why Amax's have been so hard to come by.

John

 

[NOMAD]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

It has no reason of why they are hard to come buy.

The simple fact is the bullets are flying off the floor faster then they can make them and pack them up.

They have been expanding the company and building new builds their for the last 2 + years. Buying new machines and developing new innovative products to continue to put them at the top of the bullet market.

The new offerings will be nice and we will make sure once we get our test ammo in that we give you some quality feedback.

 

[jrob300]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NOMAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It has no reason of why they are hard to come buy.</div></div>

Nomad, I realize you're sponsored by Hornady, but do you *know* that? I've been calling Hornady regularly for months, and yes they seem a little surprised by how fast 208 Amax's sold out and as far as I can tell were almost completely unaware of the bump in usage by the .308 guys, but the schedule for 208 Amax's was PUSHED OUT over 2 months from the first time I spoke with them. Why else would they push out a schedule for a round that is in hot demand unless they were waiting to incorporate a new technology being developed?

Seems like a reasonable and preferred explanation to "we really suck at forecasting demand and planning production runs", don't you think?

If you're privy to some super-secret insider information, then, pray, do tell, do tell. In the absence of that, I'll stick to my fairly well informed conclusion.

John

 

[flyboy]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

So long as they don't screw up the BC's on the 162's and 208's, I don't have a problem with it.

 

[jrob300]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So long as they don't screw up the BC's on the 162's and 208's, I don't have a problem with it. </div></div>

Oh, I think it's great. More choices. And it IS clear that Hornady is aggressively going after the market. Look at the pricing on these new bullets. Berger and Sierra have got to be asking a lot of hard questions about now.

John

 

[NOMAD]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

I was on the phone with 2 main parties at Hornady last night getting info on the new release info that was pushed out today.

We get alot of inside information and do alot of info passing to them with info from the shooters we shoot with.

So we do have a very solid info base from within.

Some of the production stuff that many don't understand is that certain machines are used for the multiple bullets. Those machines take a day or so to convert and set up a new caliber. So they dont stop a machine making ammo just to make a run of something else. The loss of down time for machines not running is huge and would create a even bigger back log.

So they tend to do big runs on bullets until the machine either breaks down, needs work, or ammo isnt to spec which means they shut it down and make the switch out to another caliber.

There is alot more to it but in the end demand is huge!! They have monster size ammo orders from the large companies like midway and creedmoor and their other large distibutors.

The other main fact is that in the last 5 years Hornady has rapidly grown to become a leader in the tactical shooting arena with all there quality offerings. Alot of shooters are getting great accuracy and results from the Hornady line and the demand has went through the roof.

Hornady continues to buy more machinery and build more buildings to eventually help fill the demand for there products. But like anything it takes time.

But in the end machines are being ran at full production. Yes there is a shortage on 208's now. But the machines are still making money pumping out say 6.5 Creedmoor. When they run 208's we will eventually shoot up all the 178's and then there will be a shortage of them and so on and so on.

In the end there is only so many machines and a LARGE fan base that will buy up and create a shortage on multiple bullet types.

Add to the fact that the 168 Gr Amax is being loaded up in there TAP line for the military and Law Enforcement as well as being loaded up in the M1 Garand load for CMP at a lighting pace.

I also just called my guy again to confirm the info above and to make sure I have up to the second info for you.

The AMAX bullet is 100% not going anywhere!!!

There will also be a another product release tomorrow as well.

Also confirmed is large runs are completed entered in the system and shipped and ammo is on back order within minutes.


John I agree the 208 Gr Amax has grown in popularity in multiple areas but that popularity is probably lower then alot of other bullets that are being made by Hornady. Unfortuanly this round is a round that seems to get limited run time with a high demand by shooters. I was told they are looking into what they can do to get more of it rolling out the door but we as shooters are buying everything they are making faster then they can make it.

Hope this helps.

 

[jrob300]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

Nomad,

That does help a LOT. You gave more detail in one post than I was able to glean from multiple conversations with multiple people at Hornady. Who knows, they may not know or they may not be able to say...

I'm NOT sponsored by Hornady and I am excited about their commitment to serious shooters.

The 208 Amax has allowed me to do things with my 300WM that most people would not even have dreamed of 5 years ago.

Thanks for the very informative response.

 

[NOMAD]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

No problem glad to help.

The 208's rock we as a Team did alot of testing of them before they were released and Rob01 had some killer loads using H-1000 worked up.

Hornady has alot going on and alot planned as shooters we should be excited for their williness to bring us many new and innovative offerings.

I cant wait for the next round!!

 

[Ol' RD]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

I wonder if Hornady needs a Maintenance Manager or Maintenance Engineer? I think I would have found my perfect working environment. The business model looks pretty solid too!

If they ever go public, I'd be drooling on the IPO paperwork! LOL!

 

[TimResin]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

will the new jackets increase BC on the AMax? And they aren't going to change any names i hope? Cause that would just confuse people.

 

[Low Sioux]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

Nomad, When do you expect to see these on the shelf? I did a a quick look around the net and no one even has these cataloged. I dont see the point of "releasing" a product that no one can actually buy. Sorry - I guess after the last few weeks of political BS Im just a little "Hyped" out. I hope its soon.

 

[NOMAD]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

I will see what they say!!

Its just like SHOT show or any trade show they show the new toys off and then they get released until months later.

Maybe more info will trickle out on tomorrows release!!

 

[flyboy]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

It would be cool if the HPBT's have the same or better BC's than there Amax counter parts. Can anyone say bullet pointing?

 

[brian64x]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

I only been using the 208's for about a year now in my .308 and I think they are great!! Expanded the range for me to 1550yds. When did the 208's come on the market? Have they had them for several years or are they new just in the last year or so?

 

[dinosdeuce]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

Lots of good info here. I originally went with the AMax when I got my .308 up a running. Loved the bullet gun shot it well. Only could find 400 rds though (last June). Ran out and searched everywhere. No joy. Switched to the BTHP, still liked the AMax though. Then the BTHP dried up. No AMax no BTHP. SO I had to switch to a different Manufacturer and was able to purchase a 1000rds. Would like to go back but I am very hesitant becasue of the supply and demand. That's part of doing business. I am in manufacturing and totaly understand high speed manufacturing. Our 2 die blow machine is designed to run at 120 SPM and once setup you run the shit out of it. Don't stop until a die blows up or you run out of raw material. Hornady has to be the same way. Every minute the machines are down is lost revenue. Maybe when I need more bullets in early spring the AMaxs will be in stock and I can find some.

Thanks for the info!

Dino

 

[GO-FASTER]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

that is a big gain on the 6mm 105 but lost a little bc on the 6.5 140 thats to bad would of liked to see around .620

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

I'll bet these new "OTM" bullets will have Hornady competing for some mil contracts.

 

[wheelchairman]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

looks like the 75 bthp for .223 stayed the same. The loaded ammo says it has 7" less drop at 500 now but the bc is the same so must be propellant.

 

[flyboy]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

Another question. Do you know if the new BTHP are going to be the same overall lenth as there Amax counter parts?

 

[bohem]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

The 225gr bullets are very similar. IIRC the 208 Amax's are 1.53" and the new 225 OTM's are 1.55"

 

[jrob300]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 225gr bullets are very similar. IIRC the 208 Amax's are 1.53" and the new 225 OTM's are 1.55" </div></div>

Are the 208 OTM's the same length as the Amax? I'm wondering if there has been any BC improvement. My guess that the BC went down due to the lack of a Poly tip.

John

 

[bohem]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

No idea, but that would be my first guess too

 

[QRE23]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

X3 It would be my best guess the BC is less with regard to the 208 amax vs 208 bthp match.

Now, I know you all are wayyyyyyyyyyyy, wayyyyyyyyy, smarter than I so I'm quite sure there is a good explanation for this but since I rode the short bus and we are guessing the 208bthp match will have LESS BC than the 208Amax, what would be the point, no pun intended, in making the same weight bullet with less BC?????

 

[jrob300]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll bet these new "OTM" bullets will have Hornady competing for some mil contracts. </div></div>

Poly tips are a no no for military contracts.

John

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll bet these new "OTM" bullets will have Hornady competing for some mil contracts. </div></div>

Poly tips are a no no for military contracts.

John </div></div>

The new bullets are BTHP, not poly tipped,

 

[jrob300]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

I KNOW. Here, I'll put it all together for you...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: samson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what would be the point, no pun intended, in making the same weight bullet <span style="font-style: italic">(without poly tips)</span> with less BC?????</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll bet these new "OTM" bullets will have Hornady competing for some mil contracts. </div></div>

<span style="font-style: italic">(because)</span> Poly tips are a no no for military contracts. <span style="font-style: italic">(explanation directed to Samson)</span>

John </div></div>

Make more sense now?

John

 

[Chiller]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qPVFinoZW44&feature=sub"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qPVFinoZW44&feature=sub" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

 

[Chiller]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4pjHNLdzfEE&feature=sub"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4pjHNLdzfEE&feature=sub" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

 

[QRE23]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

I knew the BC of the 225 was going to be less than rumored but I didn't think it was going to be that low. I know BC isn't everything but 660 for a 225 isn't very good.

 

[bohem]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

If it is a true 0.660 and not a fudged up manufacturer's claim then it's got 30 points on the 208 Amax and abotu 15 points on the 240 SMK. Compared to the 220 SMK it is significantly better with appx. the same weight, that's pretty good.

I think that a polytipped version would probably be closer to 0.685 which would be stellar... HINT HINT HORNADY!!

 

[jrob300]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

Thanks Chiller for putting those vids up.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: samson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I knew the BC of the 225 was going to be less than rumored but I didn't think it was going to be that low. I know BC isn't everything but 660 for a 225 isn't very good.

</div></div>

It'll be interesting to see what they really fly at, but right now, I'm sticking to my 208 Amax. I'd have to drive the 225 at the same velocity, or the 208 BTHP even *faster* than I drive the 208 Amax's to get any downrange ballistic advantage in identical conditions. I have no reason to try to do that. I have a load that works great and the price is right, unless Hornady decides to alienate its customers by discontinuing the Amax.

These bullets were hopefully designed with somebody in mind, although it's really not clear to me yet who. If the entire line gets the new jackets and they release a line of bullets where the BC/weight ratio is not competitive with existing products, it's a little unclear to me exactly who is going to benefit from these. Keep in mind I'm thinking exclusively from a .30 cal perspective.

Now, if Hornady were trying to convince the military to build Mk248 Mod2.... run a 220 SMK with a .629 BC vs. the 225 OTM with .660 in JBM and NOW you're talking. Flatter trajectory coupled with higher downrange energy. Exactly what you want in a LR SWS.

John

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

Hmmmm.

JLK advertises their 210 VLD at BC .665, and their 210 VLD-LBT at .680??.

I wonder how close (far?) those numbers are to reality.

 

[QRE23]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

Hornady lists the BC of the 208Amax as .648 and most of the balistic programs I've looked at list it as the same, .648, so my math comes out to .12 BC difference and 17grains of weight heavier.

Based on those numbers I don't see how the 208Amax won't be the clear winner.

 

[jrob300]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

Shane,

The normal BT 210 JLK flys *real* close to my 208's. I doubt their BC's. Or are you questioning Hornady's?

John

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

The 208 AMax seems to fly real close to the calcs at .648. I was more questioning the BCs published by JLK.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

In the .308" diameter, the 208 is pretty tough to beat when you weigh velocity and BC.

 

[bohem]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

John-

I have a feeling that those 225's are going to be loaded in the 30-375 Ruger (aka 300 Acc. Int'l) as a factory offering.

Some of the really big 30cal mags like the 300 Allen Mag, 300 RUM, Tom Sarver's 300 Hulk, all have the capacity to blow up 208's when you push them too hard. The little heavier bullet with an edge in BC will help out those guys shooting the super heavy 30 mags. I'm going to try those 225's in my 30-06 but I have a feeling that I won't be able to find any realistic advantage with only 60gr of powder behind the bullet. I have a feeling that your 300 WM is going to be the demarcation line of performance before these new 225's can demonstrate a reasonable peformance gain.

I do really like that they have a higher BC than the 240 SMK does and from what the initial tests said these are an exceptionally repeatable bullet. All in all I think it's a going to be a really good thing, it may even drive me to build a big 30cal mag of some flavor. We'll see...

I probably won't be using the 208 OTM's though.

Let's hope that military contracts don't delay Hornady's ability to deliver bullets to us simple shooters only slinging them at targets and hunting.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

I thought the 240gr SMK BC was around .699???

 

[WAMBO]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

The new Hornady 30 cal 225 gr BTHP sounds like a great bullet with a BC of .660 and their new jacket technology but I believe the 240 SMK has a BC of .711 so it definitely has the edge over the Hornady with the really big magnum cartridges.
I'll definitely want to give them a try in my 300 RUM as I can get the 240's to 2900+ fps with Retumbo and 3000+ fps with US 869, with the higher velocities I should see with the new Hornady's it will be interesting to see how they compare.

Wayne aka WAMBO

 

[jrob300]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">John-

I have a feeling that those 225's are going to be loaded in the 30-375 Ruger (aka 300 Acc. Int'l) as a factory offering. </div></div>

That was my suspicion as well.

Now I'm waiting for someone to make a bullet that is to .30 cal what the 300 gr. Berger is to .338. I was really hoping it was going to be the new Hornady, but seeing as though the release is come and gone, we'll have to see what Berger has up their sleeve.

Yes, Dave. I realize how hard it is to make a high BC bullet that's accurate, repeatable, doesn't blow up in conventional twists and doesn't cost the first born. Low expectations never got me anything.

So here's my order. 215 gr. 30 cal, real-world G1 of .750 BC out of a 1:10 twist.

My 208's will run out in, oh, about 4 months. So get crackin'.

John

 

[steve123]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought the 240gr SMK BC was around .699??? </div></div>

If I'm not mistaken litz G1 BC is .668

 

[steve123]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">John-

I have a feeling that those 225's are going to be loaded in the 30-375 Ruger (aka 300 Acc. Int'l) as a factory offering. </div></div>

That was my suspicion as well.

Now I'm waiting for someone to make a bullet that is to .30 cal what the 300 gr. Berger is to .338. I was really hoping it was

going to be the new Hornady, but seeing as though the release

is come and gone, we'll have to see what Berger has up their sleeve.

Yes, Dave. I realize how hard it is to make a high BC bullet that's accurate, repeatable, doesn't blow up in conventional twists and doesn't cost the first born. Low expectations never got me anything.

So here's my order. 215 gr. 30 cal, real-world G1 of .750 BC out of a 1:10 twist.

My 208's will run out in, oh, about 4 months. So get crackin'.

John </div></div>

I'll second that order!

 

[Bevan]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

90gr .224" amax please

and a 95gr 6mm amax for those poor souls with 1:10" twists

 

[vman]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

Thanks for the vids

 

[Mr_Brass]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bevan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">90gr .224" amax please

and a 95gr 6mm amax for those poor souls with 1:10" twists </div></div>

don't forget us 6X45 shooters too.



I wish I could get 8 lb of that powder they're using

 

[Bevan]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

Ooh you have a 6x45? Do share some details

 

[J.A. Hamilton]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

Those are some fine looking bullets. It starts to make the caliber decisions more difficult.

Josh

 

[bohem]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought the 240gr SMK BC was around .699??? </div></div>

Bryan's testing says 0.647, the 208 Amax loses almost nothing to it and does so at 30+gr lighter. The real value on the 208 Amax is 0.633, 0.014 lower BC and significantly shorter bearing surface and less weight.

I have a 6x45 as well. It's an 8 twist and throated for 105 Amax's. Pushing a 28" barrel with a compressed load of BLC-2 the best I could do was not quite 2650fps. It does really well at the 75 Vmax, those I could get to 3000fps without too much trouble. They hit groundhogs a lot harder than the 50 Vmax do at long ranges but it was not a particularly good LR practice round. Just not enough powder capacity for a decent performing LR round.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

Yes, Dave. I realize how hard it is to make a high BC bullet that's accurate, repeatable, doesn't blow up in conventional twists and doesn't cost the first born. Low expectations never got me anything.

So here's my order. 215 gr. 30 cal, real-world G1 of .750 BC out of a 1:10 twist.

John [/quote]

I wish you guys would learn how to shoot and dope the wind. You could have a bullet with a BC of 10.0, shoot dead flat to 400 yds. then rise a little bit and you'd still want more.

Sorry about the reported .700+ BC. Going by what I was told and hedging my bet a little. Obviously not enough. I need to find out how they came up with .660 Like you guys I'm a dreamer but I want accuracy first.

The A Max Vs HPBT debate.

A Max's have a longer ogive length which requires a longer magazine or shorter throat length to be able to touch the lands. Plastic tips add about .060-.070" in bullet length Vs HPBT's. They have a higher BC because of a smaller meplat and secant ogive. They are more difficult to make. They are more difficult to keep in tune than a tangent ogive bullet.

HPBT w/secondary point. Shorter ogive length means longer throats, bullets seated out further, more powder capacity. Easier to make and our Great Uncle can use them. Have enough BC, more with secondary point, to more than get the job done.

Remember everything is a compromise.

One more thing, bullet presses make bullets. Ammo presses make ammunition. Two totaly different parts of the plant. Both areas are running wide open and I've seen a lot of equipment bought and waiting for the next plant expansion which has started. Employees lost a parking lot and now have to park in the back 40. We, the USA, are the supplier of reloading componets to most of the free world. Even with restrictions in other countries think about the demand from that market.

 

[bohem]

Re: New Hornady BTHP Match Bullets

Dave, you make some extremely salient points. My "HINT HINT" comment was not anything more than a joke, though going back to it I can see it may not have read as I meant it. I have to agree, praying to the BC gods for better performance doesn't make us better shooters. It just hides more mistakes.

I know that I can make a bullet via monolithic turned solids that employ special gain twist barrels, high muzzle velocities and BC's that will make jaws drop. I know that there's going to be 2 primary complaints:

1) $0.75-$0.85/bullet for a 6.5mm bullet is too much money
2) "I don't want to change to $450 barrels, can't you make this work in a regular 8.5twist?"

I'm taking the stance that a 225gr bullet with an honest 0.66 G1 that comes pre-tipped from the factory and retains excellent match performance without being fussy in the throat is a big win. Let's push the envelope to build better arrows, but make sure that the indians shooting them are training to better themselves, not just crutching by through the use of better tools. (This is why I spent most of yesterday's range session shooting 55gr FMJ's at 300-500yd in horrible wind. I want to get better calling it, not just trying to shoot through it with a bigger, faster, flatter bullet)

It's great news to hear that Hornady is expanding to keep up with the demand, few realize that just because we snap our fingers doesn't mean that a production facility can be setup and running in 3 weeks or even 3 months for that matter.