Rifle Scopes New Minox ZP5 5-25x56 Turrets - Improved

[Glassaholic]

First off I am not a you tuber or whatever you call someone who posts videos online, so I am posting this through a dropbox account and not sure how long it might last.

I know the ZP5 comes under a lot of controversy for its turrets but I must admit that the latest copy I just received (Nov 2019) shows a significant improvement over the older model (Sept 2016) I have been using, I never thought the 2016 turrets were bad, just not quite as good as Kahles, Schmidt and some others; however, the turrets on the new ZP5 really impressed me, check out the video:

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Here is a video I did on my Kahles turrets compared to a 2019 Schmidt Ultra Short earlier this year

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

For those who are familiar with my posts you'll know that I consider the Minox ZP5 5-25x56 to be one of the best scopes I've ever used (never had a TT and never felt I needed one) I am a huge fan of the ZP5 line which is designed by GSO (German Sport Optics formerly Optronika of Premier and Tangent Theta fame) and the MR4 is still my favorite though I do like the new TT Gen III XR quite a bit as well. One of my few gripes about the scope was it's turrets but never felt I was hindered with them, the fact that the new turrets are quite a bit better is icing on the cake.

 

[BytorJr]

Maybe you're a "dropboxer?" That's quite a difference in the Minox. Maybe I need a bolt action soon!!!

 

[Mordamer]

Is it possible that the turrets just feel this way because you are comparing a brand new turret to a very used turret and Minox didn't actually change anything with the design or manufacture?

 

[ccasanova]

Wow, that’s considerably improved! My 3-15 (older) is exactly like your first one. I wonder if Minox could/would improve them if I sent it in?

 

[stello1001]

From

Is it possible that the turrets just feel this way because you are comparing a brand new turret to a very used turret and Minox didn't actually change anything with the design or manufacture?

From what I've gathered reading through older posts, the turrets on the older scope shown in video were actually coming out like that from factory brand new. So it does seem there has been an improvement.

 

[5RWill]

I think it's an improvement, Bill's experience mirrors mine as well as @CStroud. I'm not necessarily saying that turrets don't wear over time but i've never had an optic significantly decrease in feel or sound just due to frequent use. My SN-3 that i finally let go of was 10 years old this year and the EREK knob has felt the same from Day 1. Beat up k624i(s) i've handled also had phenomenal turrets, something that i just attribute to Kahles. Remains my favorite elevation turret on the market, albeit i still haven't tried TT. ZCO is a close second. If Minox maintains this level of quality though it's not a turret that would detract from the optic in any way.

 

[MDT_Josh]

Is it possible that the turrets just feel this way because you are comparing a brand new turret to a very used turret and Minox didn't actually change anything with the design or manufacture?

From what I know, Minox spent considerable time reworking the turrets and design to get them to where they are now. It was not just a process upgrade, but a design upgrade as well.

I think it's an improvement, Bill's experience mirrors mine as well as @CStroud. I'm not necessarily saying that turrets don't wear over time but i've never had an optic significantly decrease in feel or sound just due to frequent use. My SN-3 that i finally let go of was 10 years old this year and the EREK knob has felt the same from Day 1. Beat up k624i(s) i've handled also had phenomenal turrets, something that i just attribute to Kahles. Remains my favorite elevation turret on the market, albeit i still haven't tried TT. ZCO is a close second. If Minox maintains this level of quality though it's not a turret that would detract from the optic in any way.

I have been running my ZP5 MR4 for over a year now and just received a second one with the new THLR reticle to demo and provide feedback on. Comparing one that has been run hard for a year to a brand new one, there is a slight difference in the feel of the turrets, with the new one being stiffer, but both are just as tactile and precise as brand new. YMMV.

Josh

 

[NiemiPT]

I'm looking for second hand ZP5 (early patch) and it has been in turret retrofit at Minox. The previous owned told me that it was a considerable improvement.

I asked about improvements of ZP5 during lifecycle from Minox service but didn't get response yet.

 

[beetroot]

I have been running my ZP5 MR4 for over a year now and just received a second one with the new THLR reticle to demo and provide feedback on. Comparing one that has been run hard for a year to a brand new one, there is a slight difference in the feel of the turrets, with the new one being stiffer, but both are just as tactile and precise as brand new. YMMV.

Josh

What do you think about the THLR reticle?
It's an interesting design, has a lot going on but does appear useful. Not sure I'd choose it though.

 

[Jackomason]

I'm making a list/chart of scopes I'm considering in the near future. The ZP5 is going to be a strong contender. Maybe its just THLR videos (dont care for his reticle) but man these seem like a bit of a dark horse. Very curious to see how the Leica PRS compares.

 

[flatland1]

I seriously considered buying a ZP5 a few years ago after hearing quite a few glowing reports on the optical quality of the design. But at the time, I owned four Kahles K624i AMR scopes, and even though there was a lot of carping about CA in these scopes, I'm still to this day very pleased with the three remaining Kahles scopes on my Bighorn rifles. I've handled, looked through, shot behind, and played with turrets on several S&B, Vortex, Bushnell, Leupold Mk 8, Premier, etc scopes, and have never seen nor felt turrets that I liked as much as those of the Kahles. Mine have all tracked extremely accurately, and aside from not really caring for the four-dot aiming point of the AMR reticle, I have no other complaints with these scopes. So while the motivation to invest in a Minox ZP5 isn't strong enough to make me be willing to sell off a Kahles in order to buy one 'just to see', neither will I turn down the opportunity to get behind a ZP5 and form my own opinion on turret feel, glass quality, and reticle design.

 

[MDT_Josh]

What do you think about the THLR reticle?
It's an interesting design, has a lot going on but does appear useful. Not sure I'd choose it though.

Long story short; it fits a specific niche of shooters and is very handy if you fall in that niche, but it's not for me.

I have been shooting with one on my backup gun and 22lr trainer for the past few months and I have used just about all the features on it (illuminated centre dot, ranging reticles, short/long aiming, etc.) and I have come to understand how they are all handy in their own way. I am going to do a writeup on the THLR when I get a chance, but like all reticles, if it doesn't agree with your eye, don't try and force it.

Josh

 

[Glassaholic]

I'm making a list/chart of scopes I'm considering in the near future. The ZP5 is going to be a strong contender. Maybe its just THLR videos (dont care for his reticle) but man these seem like a bit of a dark horse. Very curious to see how the Leica PRS compares.

It is a dark horse and I believe part of the reason why is the name Minox. 4-5 years ago if you had asked me about alpha class scopes Minox would have never entered my mind, heck, I didn't even know they made sport optics, I thought they just made those tiny spy cameras, but even when I found they did make sport optics I had no interest. It wasn't until I learned that their ZP5 line was designed by the same group responsible for the old Premier Heritage scopes which Tangent Theta then took over. This design group - GSO (German Sport Optics aka Optronika) was some of the elite designers from Schmidt & Bender and it would seem that anything they touch turns to optical gold. Back in 2016 I was all over the Vortex AMG (preferring lighter scopes), but talking with Mike at CS Tactical, he convinced me to give the ZP5 a try so I sold one of my AMG's to purchase the ZP5 to really see what all the fuss was about and from the moment I looked through it without even being mounted I knew this was something special. Having had some Premier scopes before I was already familiar with the alpha class quality in these scopes, but the ZP5 exceeded my expectations in just about every way. Ever since then I have been a proponent because I believe it to be the best scope optically and mechanically for the price. I have tried many other alpha class scopes and just can't find one that is as good for the price. The TT is in a class on its own especially with its turrets, but are those turrets worth $1700 more than the ZP5 as the ZP5 is an optical peer to the TT. The Schmidt 5-25 comes close, but has tunneling and poor FOV at the bottom end, plus there's the issue of reticle and Schmidt doesn't have anything like the MR4. Kahles was probably the only challenger with arguably better turrets but not quite as good of glass, and when the K525i was introduced it was hoped this new design could challenge the ZP5 but FOV and some resolution issues above 20x has been an issue. It wasn't until ZCO come out that another scope finally gave challenge to the ZP5, being an optical peer with arguably better turrets (and locking) and assembled here in the USA helps give it the edge over the ZP5. But last year Minox ran a manufacturer rebate program that significantly reduced the price of all Minox scopes but specifically the ZP5 seemed to benefit the most. This is part of the reason why you see used ZP5's in the low $2000's instead of the mid $2000's where they were selling before. I would say this, if you are buying new, the cost difference between the ZCO and the ZP5 is only a few hundred dollars and I think the ZCO is a better scope at that price, but if you're buying used, the ZP5 is over $1000 less than even a used ZCO (if you can find one) and offers more for the money.

 

[Jackomason]

It is a dark horse and I believe part of the reason why is the name Minox. 4-5 years ago if you had asked me about alpha class scopes Minox would have never entered my mind, heck, I didn't even know they made sport optics, I thought they just made those tiny spy cameras, but even when I found they did make sport optics I had no interest. It wasn't until I learned that their ZP5 line was designed by the same group responsible for the old Premier Heritage scopes which Tangent Theta then took over. This design group - GSO (German Sport Optics aka Optronika) was some of the elite designers from Schmidt & Bender and it would seem that anything they touch turns to optical gold. Back in 2016 I was all over the Vortex AMG (preferring lighter scopes), but talking with Mike at CS Tactical, he convinced me to give the ZP5 a try so I sold one of my AMG's to purchase the ZP5 to really see what all the fuss was about and from the moment I looked through it without even being mounted I knew this was something special. Having had some Premier scopes before I was already familiar with the alpha class quality in these scopes, but the ZP5 exceeded my expectations in just about every way. Ever since then I have been a proponent because I believe it to be the best scope optically and mechanically for the price. I have tried many other alpha class scopes and just can't find one that is as good for the price. The TT is in a class on its own especially with its turrets, but are those turrets worth $1700 more than the ZP5 as the ZP5 is an optical peer to the TT. The Schmidt 5-25 comes close, but has tunneling and poor FOV at the bottom end, plus there's the issue of reticle and Schmidt doesn't have anything like the MR4. Kahles was probably the only challenger with arguably better turrets but not quite as good of glass, and when the K525i was introduced it was hoped this new design could challenge the ZP5 but FOV and some resolution issues above 20x has been an issue. It wasn't until ZCO come out that another scope finally gave challenge to the ZP5, being an optical peer with arguably better turrets (and locking) and assembled here in the USA helps give it the edge over the ZP5. But last year Minox ran a manufacturer rebate program that significantly reduced the price of all Minox scopes but specifically the ZP5 seemed to benefit the most. This is part of the reason why you see used ZP5's in the low $2000's instead of the mid $2000's where they were selling before. I would say this, if you are buying new, the cost difference between the ZCO and the ZP5 is only a few hundred dollars and I think the ZCO is a better scope at that price, but if you're buying used, the ZP5 is over $1000 less than even a used ZCO (if you can find one) and offers more for the money.

I appreciate the insight and buying advice. At this point buying a ZP5 is a double edged sword, on one hand buying new is always safe but since the Mauser deal its a lot less appealing knowing that if I had the money 3 months ago I could have had a great deal. This being my first "Alpha" scope also carries a lot of weight, its hard for me to wire $2k+/- to a stranger on the internet..

A comfort would be to know more about each scopes warranty and how/if it transfers to the new owner.

My expirience with Minox was from 2011/12, the 80x binocuars we had at cabelas could read a price tag (product #) from across the store about 80 yards. we only had one Minox scope and the eye box was the worst i had ever seen but i cant imagine that has any bearing on the ZP5, optical quality was good bat at that point optics outside my price range we nothing more than a novelty.

Ive had the same scope going on 9 years now, its at the point where on a sunny day I cant shoot past 900 yards due to mirage. this to say that I dont plan on buying another scope for 10 years and I want it to be the right one the fist time. Resale is not important to me but I dont want to be kicking myself. Ill be doing a lot of reading in the next few months.

 

[Glassaholic]

I think the warranty is also part of the downplay of Minox, they are serviced by Blaser USA; however, if it is anything internal I believe it has to be shipped back to Germany and can take a month or two to get back. I am actually sending back my original 5-25 to get the turrets updated and I've been told it will probably have to go back to Germany, so I will let you know how long it takes

Yes, it's important to differentiate the ZP5 from the rest of the Minox products, they are a completely different animal - again, due to the design from GSO.

I understand your trepidation about sending $2k+ to someone you don't know, but I'd done it quite a bit on the Hide but make sure I look into their history and their buy/sell ratings, etc. You can also use PayPal and cover the fees (about $60 for a $2k transaction) and have the backup of paypal to reimburse you should the deal go south.

If you are looking at new, I really think the ZCO is the way to go. Call up Richard at CS Tactical (they sell Minox too) and while there is not much wiggle room on the price for the ZCO, he'll take care you.

 

[NiemiPT]

Turrets seems to be ok. Maybe a bit too thick grease and there is notable stiff point between first and second turn due indicator.

Anyway I really like this scope! It will be a huge improvement from Falcon M18+

 

[Glassaholic]

Shipped my "old" ZP5 to Texas two weeks ago, we'll see how long it takes to get to Germany, updated and shipped back. Hopefully it won't take forever but we'll see. As I mentioned above, this is probably their biggest detriment especially if you need the scope for a big hunt or a competition, that's where ZCO and other companies with USA repair centers will excel - turnaround time.

 

[CSTactical]

I think the warranty is also part of the downplay of Minox, they are serviced by Blaser USA; however, if it is anything internal I believe it has to be shipped back to Germany and can take a month or two to get back. I am actually sending back my original 5-25 to get the turrets updated and I've been told it will probably have to go back to Germany, so I will let you know how long it takes

Yes, it's important to differentiate the ZP5 from the rest of the Minox products, they are a completely different animal - again, due to the design from GSO.

I understand your trepidation about sending $2k+ to someone you don't know, but I'd done it quite a bit on the Hide but make sure I look into their history and their buy/sell ratings, etc. You can also use PayPal and cover the fees (about $60 for a $2k transaction) and have the backup of paypal to reimburse you should the deal go south.

If you are looking at new, I really think the ZCO is the way to go. Call up Richard at CS Tactical (they sell Minox too) and while there is not much wiggle room on the price for the ZCO, he'll take care you.

Yes we will, on everything we sell, check the signature and then some

Also we have Minox ZP5 MR4's in stock and ZCO ZC527 and ZC420 MPCT2's on the way

 

[Glassaholic]

Yes we will, on everything we sell, check the signature and then some

Also we have Minox ZP5 MR4's in stock and ZCO ZC527 and ZC420 MPCT2's on the way

I don't see Minox in your signature anymore???

 

[CSTactical]

I don't see Minox in your signature anymore???

Whoops! Corrected!

 

[Jackomason]

I'd have a hard time breaking $3k. It's more about how my wife sees things but the ZCO may be a good way to go...

Wonder if CStactical would be willing to share insider perspective of minox. I'll pay for a quality scope but the minox climate seems iffy right now.

Any word on a ZP6? Are sales still ok on the ZP5 line or are they hurting from the EO sale? I dont expect an answer but I'm sure you can understand my dilemma.

 

[CSTactical]

I'd have a hard time breaking $3k. It's more about how my wife sees things but the ZCO may be a good way to go...

Wonder if CStactical would be willing to share insider perspective of minox. I'll pay for a quality scope but the minox climate seems iffy right now.

Any word on a ZP6? Are sales still ok on the ZP5 line or are they hurting from the EO sale? I dont expect an answer but I'm sure you can understand my dilemma.

It's a long conversation, but if you PM me your number I'll be happy to go over it with you

 

[Glassaholic]

Any word on a ZP6?

With regard to ZP6 or any updates to ZP5 the only word is a new reticle for the ZP5 3-15 that blends the MR4/MR2 together. It is highly doubtful a ZP6 line will be introduced when they are still introducing new reticles for ZP5. IWA is right around the corner and Blaser/Minox decided not to attend SHOT Show, so I'd expect anything new will be announced at IWA.

 

[dustingaunder]

I looked through my ZP5 offhand before mounting and had the same “this is special” reaction. The glass is so good. It looks like real life when you look through it on a clear day. On a crappy day it still excels. I’m more sensitive to barrel mirage. The image goes from spectacular to normal high end scope.