Rifle Scopes New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

#201
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

David, that's why you've got to wait for the videos next week. People are going to play with them and post it online. I bet a lot of your questions will get answered there. Just be patient.
 
#202
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

If the 2 stage elevation adjustment works as David speculated then that is just plain absurd.
I can see the point of coarse plus fine adjusters;
you are in the dark so you are counting clicks
you need 7.4 mils, so you turn both adjusters to zero (assuming zero stops on both) then dial 7 clicks on the turret @ 1 mil per click and 4 click on the fine adjuster @ .1 mil per click, voila, 7.4 mils elevation dialed in only 11 clicks.

I can't believe that the turret has .1 mil detents as well.

Joe
 
#204
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

scudzuki,

not sure if you got my "speculation" right. It is quite clear from the description as well as the images that the turret has 0.2 mrad graduations (and clicks as well, I assume). Then the fine adjustment lever adds another 0.1 mrad. What I don't get is whether the fine adjustment lever has to be "reset" manually, which was clearly the case in the earlier patents, but the actual product seems to be different enough to warrant the question.
 
#205
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

Pure speculation , but my guess is that the coarse to fine adjustment will work like a set of planetary gears in the turret. So that one click in the fine adjustment will only move the face of the turret .025 while the coarse will move the face .2 . That is the only way I can see keeping track of where your at .
 
#206
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

The only thing I could bitch about is the name. The same complaint for the entire firearms/tactical industry: ENOUGH with the goofy fuckin acronyms! Call it the Beast, call it the Attacker, call one the Pimp-hand, whatever, but stop coming up with nonsensical bullshit to make up the letters. I find it obnoxious, but a stupid name takes nothing away from the quality of a product and Nightforce has always delivered.

I don't see why people would complain about the form of the new scope, it seems that the Nightforce faithful got exactly what they asked for. From what's been released I see:

A higher magnification FFP? Check.
Better glass that can compete with the Euro offerings? Check.
Magnification ring that doesn't turn the whole ocular like the 3-15x F1? Not sure but it appears that way to me.
Even more elev/wind adjustment? Check.

On top of it new features that advance the things that were already great have been introduced. Everybody seems to like the HS turrets, now there are even faster turrets which retain the ability to dial in 0.1 increments. The form is different than people are used to with the +0.1/-0.1 mil switch, but that may be the only way to accomplish the goal of a single turn turret that can dial up 20 mils. I think it's genius.

There's only so many resources and production time to go around, they were in need of a step forward rather than rehash the existing lines in my opinion.

I've never spent this amount of money on a scope, but I do intend to buy one of these. I think they've hit a homerun as long as the glass is all they say it is, does anyone have any reservations about the mechanical toughness or repeatibility of anything with NF's stamp on it? I don't think so.
 
#207
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RyeDaddy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Magnification ring that doesn't turn the whole ocular like the 3-15x F1? </div></div>

This is the best feature of a Nightforce scope, why would you not want it?
 
#208
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: treebasher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RyeDaddy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Magnification ring that doesn't turn the whole ocular like the 3-15x F1? </div></div>

This is the best feature of a Nightforce scope, why would you not want it? </div></div>

I don't, but it makes it difficult if you are running flip up scope covers.
 
#209
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: treebasher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RyeDaddy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Magnification ring that doesn't turn the whole ocular like the 3-15x F1? </div></div>

This is the best feature of a Nightforce scope, why would you not want it?</div></div>

Why is the the best feature on a NF? It's the only thing I don't like about their scopes.
 
#210
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Special Delivery</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: treebasher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RyeDaddy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Magnification ring that doesn't turn the whole ocular like the 3-15x F1? </div></div>

This is the best feature of a Nightforce scope, why would you not want it?</div></div>

Why is the the best feature on a NF? It's the only thing I don't like about their scopes.</div></div> Much easier to adjust with gloved hands in the elements. It's a tactical scope feature that a lot of us love.
 
#212
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David S.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The cutaway drawing shows the same rotating ocular design as the SFP NXS scopes.</div></div>

I'll scratch that one then, I've heard complaints about it from some. The only downside is with flip ups, which I prefer over a bikini but that's so far down the make or break list it's negligible. Either way, I don't see what there is to complain about in the new offerings.
 
#213
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RyeDaddy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David S.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The cutaway drawing shows the same rotating ocular design as the SFP NXS scopes.</div></div>

I'll scratch that one then, I've heard complaints about it from some. The only downside is with flip ups, which I prefer over a bikini but that's so far down the make or break list it's negligible. Either way, I don't see what there is to complain about in the new offerings. </div></div>

I used to use the bikini covers but they suck in the field. now I just use a scope coat instead. It's really fast on and off and no flip covers to worry about. in the mean time your WHOLE scope has a nice covering.
 
#214
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes I have handled versions of the BEAST and the ATACR, as well I have spoke to them at length, been in the room when the optics guy was there, and have kept in contact with NF as this scope has progressed from prototype to product.

I have a much better idea than most, as well I have seen more than most, own more, broke more, the list goes on.

You can say anything you want, but if you are completely full of shit I am gonna call you one it, if you are gonna act like you know something based on a 140 characters I'm gonna call you on it, if you're gonna pretend like NF hasn't been doing it well and this all new to them, I'm gonna call you on it. If you're gonna dismissed time, the R&D, the units out in the hands of people testing and evaluating, as if you know something the rest of the readers don't, I'm gonna call you on it.

There is a reason stuff takes this long, especially from NF, they have a track record of crossing the "T"s and dotting the "i"s to the chagrin of many who wished they put things out faster, me included.

Portraying them as fly by night to unproven, gimmicky or any of the other unfounded descriptions used is gonna get you called out on.

It's easy for people to Monday morning quarterback these companies, but to do so without even having "seen it", please, you;re a tool. </div></div>

You're really missing the point here, Frank. It would be foolish to question NF's ability to produce a good optic; I said it once already, I'm a huge fan because of this reason; because of an article with an AK round through the tube that was still serviceable.

I don't doubt that they can develop any technology they set their minds to and do so efficiently, I just don't know why they chose THIS technology. Of all the directions they could have gone, all the time they spent in R&D, I question the choice of locking/high speed/quick adjustment turrets as their new flagship design.

Sometimes I think because of who you are, you're quick to dismiss others and don't give some of us enough credit. I don't know how many times I've said, IT WOULD BE STUPID TO JUDGE THE QUALITY OF THE OPTIC BEFORE HANDLING IT(at least twice in this thread) yet I continue to get berated about judging something before handling it. I'm not a noob and I'm not an idiot, and I would ask not to be treated as such.
 
#216
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

You could end this argument rather quickly by contacting NF, finding out why they chose this particular path, whether or not there were any other ideas on the chopping block and what the deciding factor was. Instead, you mock folks who ask questions and don't provide any answers other than "ive held it and you havent so im right, shut up, youre full of shit, I know the optics guy, nanny nanny boo boo"

Very hospitable and informative. Why don't you answer some of these questions instead of telling us we're full of shit? And if you say "well its still under wraps" then why post a thread in the first place and get irritated when people speculate?
 
#217
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

Frank, do you know if the ocular turns like the older NXS and F1s do?
I use the bikinis but they come off and stay off the second I put the rifle out of the bag.
I find that I break more flip caps going in and out of port holes and such that's it was easier to do away with them completely. My guess is the guys that bitch about not using your flip caps on NF scopes probably spend most of their time shooting from a bench or prone.

I'll get a scope coat to try out.
 
#220
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

I wish SHOT was still in Orlando! Hell... im kinda just glad that they came out with a 34mm tube. Cant wait to see the video. I am interested to see how the two speed transmission works on the knob... if you can call it that.
smile.gif
 
#221
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THEBEARRRRRRJEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You could end this argument rather quickly by contacting NF, finding out why they chose this particular path, whether or not there were any other ideas on the chopping block and what the deciding factor was. Instead, you mock folks who ask questions and don't provide any answers other than "ive held it and you havent so im right, shut up, youre full of shit, I know the optics guy, nanny nanny boo boo"

Very hospitable and informative. Why don't you answer some of these questions instead of telling us we're full of shit? And if you say "well its still under wraps" then why post a thread in the first place and get irritated when people speculate?</div></div>

I know exactly the order of things, the point is, how much I should be saying vs not saying so I am as cautious as possible to maintain my position.


I can answer David too...

360 brake just locks the turret where it is, there is no movement once locked, so for use with things like the Horus, or if you want to set a BZO type zero point, but you are not dialing it. It's just not called a lock because of the trademarks held by others.

The fine tune is an on or off, you either have or you don't, if you want to go up, and it's on, you continue to get the .1, extra or you can turn it off and just throw it when you need it. It's not too crazy and is clearly marked on or off. Just a finger flick to add the .1 to your .2 course adjustment.

Ocular turns, no second turn indicator, but if you are on the second turn, you are over 20 mils I think you would know... it's not like you are mistaking anything. They have a reasoning for not doing this and I agree with it, but again, next week until I know I can speak on it.

As far as the progression of why each scope was released in this order, they have answered it too me, and I get it, but like I said, they haven't told me to relay the reasoning so I am not gonna... it;s only a week away and I am sure all will be spoken about as people go in and ask the same question over and over again.
 
#222
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Redmanss</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Special Delivery</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: treebasher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RyeDaddy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Magnification ring that doesn't turn the whole ocular like the 3-15x F1? </div></div>

This is the best feature of a Nightforce scope, why would you not want it?</div></div>

Why is the the best feature on a NF? It's the only thing I don't like about their scopes.</div></div> Much easier to adjust with gloved hands in the elements. It's a tactical scope feature that a lot of us love.</div></div>

Thanks Redmanss, this was going to be my answer as well.
 
#223
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am mocking you for your "gimmick" comment which you continued to repeat. </div></div>

Of all my words, you cling to just one.

And for the record, I already said if I'm wrong I'll eat em but I don't appreciate you dictating my opinion to me because you have first hand experience. Just because you think it's good doesn't mean I have to. If it's something I only use 5% of the time and I don't believe it makes the system better, then to me it's a gimmick. You have no right to tell me my opinion is bullshit and yours is the only one that matters.
 
#225
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What do you believe is a gimmick that you'll only use 5% of the time ?

Explain that to me, the lock, the .1 adjustment, the new Illumination, ? Which part is a gimmick... </div></div>

The giant unnecessary throw lever and 2 different increments of adjustment. It wasn't broke, why did they try to fix it.

The illumination, IMO, was necessary. Its a huge PITA to remove the parallax cap and battery to change the brightness but this new feature is something that I feel works best on a service optic where that half a second might save your life. I normally use 10mil turrets and in civilian competition, never felt I needed something faster. If I'm REALLY concerned about speed, I'll dial 3/4 of it and hold the rest or get a tree reticle and dial nothing at all.
 
#226
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

It's how they solved getting the 20 mil single turn knob to function without the draw backs of the click spacing. Like Premier tried and failed at...

It was requested to have a single turn solution,

The EREK

High Speed Turrets,

Vortex also changed from 5 mils to more...

the list is endless... you feel it wasn't needed or broke, but clearly it was a requested and people have been chasing single turn knob solutions for a while.

The PSR is going to 338LM with an expected range of 1500m, beyond, we are shooting farther and farther everyday. (See DTA 3000 yard post) so a single turn solution is a step forward. (Without the limitation of the click spacing)

1 MOA Turrets, (old School Leupold) 1/2 MOA turrets, etc... nothing new here.

They solved the problem, course adjustment, hit the lever ad a 1/10th. No issue with click spacing. '

If you are concerned with speed, you can dial it ahead of time, lock the "Brake" and then, when you go to use your Reticle the added adjustment is set, where ever you want it.

Just because you dont see it as practical, (points to limited experience IMHO) doesn't mean others haven't. NF works very closely with Crane, the SEALs, etc, many of these opinions stem from there, not you, (clearly)

The MST100 was similar, dial the yard line for speed, hit the fine tune, only been around since 1978... Need 3.5 Mils for 500 yards, dial up to 3.4 hit the lever with the same hand on the way off. Need 3.2, dial 1 click down, hit the lever off, need 3.1, dial down 2 clicks, leave the lever on. Simple.
 
#227
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

Oh and GIANT UNNECESSARY THROW LEVER ... this is why I am mocking you as opinion doesn't matter.

here it is in Context

Screen-Shot-2013-01-11-at-3.58.40-PM.png


This is FAR from GIANT Drama lama ... what is, 3/8" of an inch. LOL

it's so big people couldn't even see it on the website NF posted.
 
#230
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grizzdude</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know I was about to buy the beast but that unsightly throw lever just killed the deal. I'll go with my bushnell banner instead</div></div>

You should sell that and get a BSA Cat's Eye.
 
#231
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

If the only choice is between a Nightforce vs. a Bushnell that should easy. The Bushnell is not remotely in the same class with a Nightforce. As I understand the situation the shooter can elect not to use the throw lever on the Beast. The Beast has a lot of capacity and that gives the shooter more options.
 
#232
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jerry1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the only choice is between a Nightforce vs. a Bushnell that should easy. The Bushnell is not remotely in the same class with a Nightforce. As I understand the situation the shooter can elect not to use the throw lever on the Beast. The Beast has a lot of capacity and that gives the shooter more options. </div></div>

He was joking...
 
#233
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's how they solved getting the 20 mil single turn knob to function without the draw backs of the click spacing. Like Premier tried and failed at...

It was requested to have a single turn solution,

The EREK

High Speed Turrets,

Vortex also changed from 5 mils to more...

the list is endless... you feel it wasn't needed or broke, but clearly it was a requested and people have been chasing single turn knob solutions for a while.

The PSR is going to 338LM with an expected range of 1500m, beyond, we are shooting farther and farther everyday. (See DTA 3000 yard post) so a single turn solution is a step forward. (Without the limitation of the click spacing)

1 MOA Turrets, (old School Leupold) 1/2 MOA turrets, etc... nothing new here.

They solved the problem, course adjustment, hit the lever ad a 1/10th. No issue with click spacing. '

If you are concerned with speed, you can dial it ahead of time, lock the "Brake" and then, when you go to use your Reticle the added adjustment is set, where ever you want it.

Just because you dont see it as practical, (<span style="font-weight: bold">points to limited experience IMHO</span>) doesn't mean others haven't. NF works very closely with Crane, the SEALs, etc, many of these opinions stem from there, not you, (<span style="font-weight: bold">clearly</span>)

The MST100 was similar, dial the yard line for speed, hit the fine tune, only been around since 1978... Need 3.5 Mils for 500 yards, dial up to 3.4 hit the lever with the same hand on the way off. Need 3.2, dial 1 click down, hit the lever off, need 3.1, dial down 2 clicks, leave the lever on. Simple. </div></div>

I was just getting ready to thank you for giving me a complete answer until this. You just can't help yourself, can you? Then folks get banned cuz they're rude to members...gee I wonder where they got the crazy notion that it's ok?
 
#234
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So for years we have asked for an NXS 5.5-22x F1 and instead we get the choice between their Schmidt-priced optic or basically an NXS STILL in F2? I'm baffled.</div></div>

I've been thinking a bit about this S&B priced Nightforce. Two years ago if you wanted an American made scope at that price range you really had one choice with USO (I've always really considered Premier's Heritage line German.) Now you have Leupold, Trijicon, Nightforce, and USO. That is a great deal more crowded. Counting the Euro stuff you now have at least 6 brands angling for the $3k + long range tactical market. I'm really not sure how big the $3k + scope market is but outside of serious competitions and shooting leagues I have never seen a scope of that price at the range so they can't be too all fired common. It seems a bit crowded. Nightforce has had great success competing in the, also much more crowded now, $1k-$2k market. I can tell you that I don't think the $3k scope market is big enough for everybody now in it. As I'm sure many others do I have my wild ass guesses as to who will succeed and who will not.

All that being said, Nightforce is not on my short list of who I think will fail. I find the features of the Beast interesting and Nightforce has a very good track record for reliability as well as a Stirling reputation. Heck, they even have some of their customers thinking that their NXS line looks as good as an S&B already. I don't think that they are going to lack for enough customers to make ends meet. Though, had they given people the FFP less expensive Japanese glass NXS that they were begged for, especially with all of these interesting features, they might have done even better. They would also do better with more compelling reticles, but then I would loose my favorite topic to bitch about. Ok, I probably wouldn't. Even if I designed the reticle myself there would probably be something I would want to change again within 6 months and so I would be back to bitching. Honestly, the reticles aren't bad, I just always want something better.
 
#236
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jerry1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the only choice is between a Nightforce vs. a Bushnell that should easy. The Bushnell is not remotely in the same class with a Nightforce. As I understand the situation the shooter can elect not to use the throw lever on the Beast. The Beast has a lot of capacity and that gives the shooter more options. </div></div>

Unless I'm not understanding Lowlights example, I take it that the lever is there to select between .1 & .2 mils. ie; its on the .2 knob setting or its .1 above. Think odd/even. If thats the case then the lever is always used.
 
#237
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THEBEARRRRRRJEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I was just getting ready to thank you for giving me a complete answer until this. You just can't help yourself, can you? Then folks get banned cuz they're rude to members...gee I wonder where they got the crazy notion that it's ok?</div></div>

So you can slip in as many little digs like gimmick, giant lever, and constantly point back to try and make your "gimmick point" stick, but when I use two underhanded references to your mistakes... it's rude.

What a joke... admit you're wrong, you don't know the difference between a "gimmick", a giant throw lever and that actually it was just a way for you vent because, "you would do it better"...

On another note, I would suspect the lower cost F1 is on the way, just wasn't at the place they wanted it. It would not surprise me at all to see ATACR have a FFP version out later down the road.

The lever just adds the .1, the main turret is .2, and the lever adds the .1, so you would need it every time you wanted to dial an "odd" number or if you needed that extra .25MOA
 
#238
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

Lowlight,

Having looked through this optic already, how would you rate the glass compared to S&B, Premier, Hensoldt, Kahles etc... ??? Really curious? Love my S&B and my Premier, but would be willing to sell one and try the BEAST if the glass was on par with German/Austrian heavy hitters. Thanks in advance...

-SBS
 
#239
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

It was on par with Hensoldt, if they stuck with the same coatings and optics I saw, which they said they have, it is gonna rival them all.

It was tested alongside a S&B 5-25x and out performed it, or at least spec'd to out perform it, and I understand saying that is a bit limiting and subjective because there is more than one criteria to take into account. But they were going for it.

I was super impressed, they said the coatings being used were similar to a Leica spotter so they raised the bar for sure and even brought in some people from Europe as opposed to Japan, so this was a departure for them. It has some German engineering inside I will say that.

I was really happy with what I saw.
 
#241
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

No tunneling, I remember...

It's short, with a big objective, so you shouldn't see an issue, and believe me, all all the years they have been working on this, I don't think they would have "settled" for an optic that tunneled.

It's very Hensoldt-like, when you look at size. Its not long like some of the NXS are. Bit more short and fat.
 
#242
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The lever just adds the .1, the main turret is .2, and the lever adds the .1, so you would need it every time you wanted to dial an "odd" number or if you needed that extra .25MOA </div></div>

This! Now I got it how it works. English not being my first language, the answer above make all the sense on how it works. And I liked it!

Thanks LL.


LRCampos.
 
#243
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

Frank, thanks for clearing up the functions. Got that "brake" thing totally wrong, quite amazing that they feel like they have to steer clear of simply calling it a locking turret. These patent/trademark issues are getting out of hand.
 
#244
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

I'm kinda digging the ATACR scope, for less than $300 more than the nxs you get the extra 20% elevation travel, wider field of view, the .1 mil subtensions for ranging, better clarity? not sure on that one, and a different illumination system. This sounds like a good deal, I also think the mil reticle is not cluttering up the view like the horus does. Any thoughts on this Low Light? I'll be in the market for a new scope in a couple months, I was planning to get another nxs until I saw the ATACR.
 
#246
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

I suspect there is some tunneling and here's why.

If there is no tunneling, the FOV at 100 yards should be inversely proportional to the magnification. Example: If the FOV is 4 ft at 25x, then it should be 20 ft at 5x.

Now look at the FOV numbers for the ATACR:

4.92 ft @ 25x
17.96 ft @ 5x (should be 5 x 4.92ft = 24.6 ft if no tunneling)

And for the BEAST:

4.92 ft @ 25x
18.7 ft @ 5x (should be 5 x 4.92ft = 24.6 ft if no tunneling)

These numbers don't indicate whether the tunneling is gradual or sudden (like in the 5-25x S&B).

A good question for NF at SHOT might be whether tunneling (gradual or sudden) is an unavoidable aspect of scope design. An example is the use of light baffles to avoid internal reflections at low magnification - these baffles might cut off a bit of the FOV, but are necessary.
 
#247
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It was on par with Hensoldt, if they stuck with the same coatings and optics I saw, which they said they have, it is gonna rival them all.

It was tested alongside a S&B 5-25x and out performed it, or at least spec'd to out perform it, and I understand saying that is a bit limiting and subjective because there is more than one criteria to take into account. But they were going for it.

I was super impressed, they said the coatings being used were similar to a Leica spotter so they raised the bar for sure and even brought in some people from Europe as opposed to Japan, so this was a departure for them. It has some German engineering inside I will say that.

I was really happy with what I saw. </div></div>

Wow... That sounds impressive indeed. That S&B may be going up for sale after all. Never have been happy with the placement of the illumination housing anyway.

-SBS
 
#248
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chris@SportOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Atacr does use Ed glass. I too think its a great scope. The milr is a killer reticle being broken diwn similar to an H2CMR. We'll be shipping at the end of January and we're taking per-orders for anyone interested. </div></div>

So what is the "ED Glass"? I can't find much info on it. Is it noticeably better than the glass in the current NXS models? It says 90% light transmission, what is a 5.5-22x56 nxs rated at? Also is the bell any bigger on the ATACR or the same size as the 5.5-22x56 NXS? Thanks
 
#249
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grizzdude</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chris@SportOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Atacr does use Ed glass. I too think its a great scope. The milr is a killer reticle being broken diwn similar to an H2CMR. We'll be shipping at the end of January and we're taking per-orders for anyone interested. </div></div>

So what is the "ED Glass"? I can't find much info on it. Is it noticeably better than the glass in the current NXS models? It says 90% light transmission, what is a 5.5-22x56 nxs rated at? Also is the bell any bigger on the ATACR or the same size as the 5.5-22x56 NXS? Thanks </div></div>

ED stands for extra low dispersion. Many manufacturers use this type of glass in their instruments and it is not exclusive to riflescopes. I guess the most famous recongnition would be Nikon using it in their Nikor camera lens.

I don't remember what the light transmission number is but I'm sure it's in the 90's.
 
#250
Re: New Nightforce "B.E.A.S.T." & ATACR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I suspect there is some tunneling and here's why.

If there is no tunneling, the FOV at 100 yards should be inversely proportional to the magnification. Example: If the FOV is 4 ft at 25x, then it should be 20 ft at 5x.

Now look at the FOV numbers for the ATACR:

4.92 ft @ 25x
17.96 ft @ 5x (should be 5 x 4.92ft = 24.6 ft if no tunneling)

And for the BEAST:

4.92 ft @ 25x
18.7 ft @ 5x (should be 5 x 4.92ft = 24.6 ft if no tunneling)

These numbers don't indicate whether the tunneling is gradual or sudden (like in the 5-25x S&B).

A good question for NF at SHOT might be whether tunneling (gradual or sudden) is an unavoidable aspect of scope design. An example is the use of light baffles to avoid internal reflections at low magnification - these baffles might cut off a bit of the FOV, but are necessary. </div></div>

OEJ,

I don't have any factual information but just a speculation that either LL or a NF rep could verify, but it could be that the "actual" magnification isn't exactly the same as the listed magnification. You've seen this before I'm sure, where the scope magnification says 5-25 but in the actual specs the magnification is something like 5.1-25.3 or some such thing (those numbers were picked completely at random and have nothing to do with either of these scopes being discussed). Just a possible explanation for the stated "no tunneling" and your calculated FOV numbers.

Geb
 
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