New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

[glock24]

I see that Ruger is introducing 3, 5, and 10 round plastic magazines for their Scout Rifle. I'm also told the Scout Rifle runs on AI (or AI clone) mags.

That said, do we now have a budget alternative to AICS magazines? I wonder if they're reliable. I also wonder about the maximum COL.

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[mnglockman]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

Very interesting. I will be very curious to see if they work and the cost.

 

[WRENCHHEAD]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

wow you can even top load these!

 

[billyburl2]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

Ruger website states that they are not recommended for other AICS systems...

 

[hondakilla98]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

Tag.

 

[powderBurnz]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

$39 from Ruger, follow the link.

 

[frankythefly]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

Hmmm, if they work for the ruger shouldn't they work for other AICS systems? I think someone needs to pick some up and do some testing..

 

[*Nine]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frankythefly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmm, if they work for the ruger shouldn't they work for other AICS systems? I think someone needs to pick some up and do some testing..</div></div>

I wouldn't be surprised if that's just something Ruger says so that people don't buy them expecting them to work with other AICS setups and then complain if they don't work for some reason.

 

[jasonZ]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

tag

 

[hondakilla98]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

I sure hope these work. Impact guns has the 10 rounders for 29.99. That is cheap compared to the other options on the market.

 

[Glen Seekins]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

I should have one shortly and will let you know if they will work or not. Had a few call and ask so figured I better try it: )

 

[z71rat]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

Thanks Glen!!

DK

 

[jasonZ]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

Cool appreciate the research. Looking forward to the results

 

[BAGunner]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

Tagged for the upcoming review.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

Have you played with the Ruger rifle? The BM holds the mag very sloppily. Not a good BM system on that rifle.

That said, if the plastic mag fits...

 

[Megacab]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

Interesting.

Tag for a review from Glen

 

[Glen Seekins]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

AI and the other steel clone mags vary quite a bit in size, AI being the best so one mag may be super sloppy and the other almost too tight. It doesn't take too much to make it feel sloppy.

We looked at doing polymer mags a few years ago. The main issue was OAL inside the mag. The plastic needs to be thick enough to not break and thats thicker than the steel mags so OAL is going to suffer. We wills see what Ruger did here. I would be surprised if it didn't function unless ruger doesn't want to get into the mag business but then plastic mags wouldn't make sense either..? we will see.

 

[j.c.]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Market Garden</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frankythefly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmm, if they work for the ruger shouldn't they work for other AICS systems? I think someone needs to pick some up and do some testing..</div></div>

I wouldn't be surprised if that's just something Ruger says so that people don't buy them expecting them to work with other AICS setups and then complain if they don't work for some reason.</div></div>

My thought as well and I don't blame them, considering all the vendors that make AI bottom metal conversions it would be opening up a potentially unbounded support burden.

Ruger makes good magazines these days for their other platforms so I'm really optimistic about these.

 

[awz1287]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

tag

 

[Chiller]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

Would love to see what Mr Seekins makes.

That being said....Alpha makes a hell of a mag......

 

[Will Fennell]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

Midway has the Ruger Plastic mags, and I should have some next week to test.....

 

[BlackOps Tech]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

I've been working with the Glass Filled Nylon in the injection molding process of our new 22LR magazine (fits any DBM that accepts AICS mags). Very tough stuff and works great for our application.

When it comes to the centerfire application (other than the .223), I have to agree with Glen on the OAL issues. They may have a place in certain platforms, but I would say they'd generate frustration in others. Can't speak to whether the Ruger mags work in other platforms....

 

[Francotirador]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

Tag. Thanks for the research!

 

[Will Fennell]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

OK,
got the Ruger mags in....I only have 1 rifle that takes AICS mags. It is a custom APA FN with CDI bottom metal. The ruger mags lock in nice and tight( takes a little smack on the bottom to get them to seat), but the top round sits too low to feed. I might be able to file the inside of the feed lips and get the round a bit higher, but I haven't had time to mess with it yet.

I DO like the snap on dust cover, and over all the mags feel pretty sturdy. Hopefully this can be made to work.

 

[buffybuster]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Will Fennell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK,
got the Ruger mags in....I only have 1 rifle that takes AICS mags. It is a custom APA FN with CDI bottom metal. The ruger mags lock in nice and tight( takes a little smack on the bottom to get them to seat), but the top round sits too low to feed. I might be able to file the inside of the feed lips and get the round a bit higher, but I haven't had time to mess with it yet.

I DO like the snap on dust cover, and over all the mags feel pretty sturdy. Hopefully this can be made to work. </div></div>

Can you post pictures of how the magazine is sitting in relation to the bolt?

 

[Arbiter]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

Over on The Webforum That Shall Not Be Named Lest The Hordes Invade, there's already been one or two reports of failure to feed issues with the new polymer magazines:

http://libertytreeblogs.blogspot.com/2011/11/breaking-down-rugers-new-polymer-gsr.html

 

[rpk762]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

Interesting. Rounds poped out but still intact. Might just have to pickup a 10rd mag and give it a try.

Are there some states that limit the ammount of ammo in bolt guns?

 

[crshep]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

Can you measure and let us know what the COAL is.
thanks.

 

[Will Fennell]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

Calipers show 2.855" inside front to back.

 

[tmckay2]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

we def. need to figure out if theres a way for these to work. would save so much money.

 

[tmckay2]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

any updates?

 

[kytrapper]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

tag for the results of some excellent research!!!

 

[George63]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Will Fennell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK,
got the Ruger mags in....I only have 1 rifle that takes AICS mags. It is a custom APA FN with CDI bottom metal. The ruger mags lock in nice and tight( takes a little smack on the bottom to get them to seat), but the top round sits too low to feed. I might be able to file the inside of the feed lips and get the round a bit higher, but I haven't had time to mess with it yet.

I DO like the snap on dust cover, and over all the mags feel pretty sturdy. Hopefully this can be made to work. </div></div>

sounds like the plastic .223 AI mags, they need the DBM to be inletted another 1/8 inch to work, the metal 308 mags still work nice with this deeper inlet

 

[mtquivr]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

I've had one of the Ruger mags for about a week trying to make it work.

I have a Savage model 10 in a McRee chassis. The AICS mag functions fine.

The Ruger, at first, couldn't be inserted, it's too wide. There are reinforcing ribs on the body of the magazine that have to be removed at the rear of the mag. Once these are removed, you can insert the magazine.

There are extensions to the feed lips, I suppose to strengthen them, at the front. These are absent on the AICS. When inserted and removed, you can see marks on these feed lip extensions. I removed a little at a time to the point I'm getting almost no marks. The magazine appears to seat as far as the AICS.

I thought I was ready to try feeding cartridges. No go. The bolt picks up the top of the case rim, the cartridge begins to go forward slightly, then the bolt over rides the case. It's almost as if the spring is too weak.

Anyway, that's where I'm at.

 

[George63]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mtquivr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've had one of the Ruger mags for about a week trying to make it work.

I have a Savage model 10 in a McRee chassis. The AICS mag functions fine.

The Ruger, at first, couldn't be inserted, it's too wide. There are reinforcing ribs on the body of the magazine that have to be removed at the rear of the mag. Once these are removed, you can insert the magazine.

There are extensions to the feed lips, I suppose to strengthen them, at the front. These are absent on the AICS. When inserted and removed, you can see marks on these feed lip extensions. I removed a little at a time to the point I'm getting almost no marks. The magazine appears to seat as far as the AICS.

I thought I was ready to try feeding cartridges. No go. The bolt picks up the top of the case rim, the cartridge begins to go forward slightly, then the bolt over rides the case. It's almost as if the spring is too weak.

Anyway, that's where I'm at. </div></div>

It is not that the spring is too weak, the magazine is not far enough up into the action, the DBM could be inletted deeper bringing the magazine into the action. The ride over is exactly what happened with the AI 223 mags until I got the magazine far enough into the action, then they feed fine and 308 (metal mags)feed very smooth with the same set up

 

[tmckay2]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mtquivr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've had one of the Ruger mags for about a week trying to make it work.

I have a Savage model 10 in a McRee chassis. The AICS mag functions fine.

The Ruger, at first, couldn't be inserted, it's too wide. There are reinforcing ribs on the body of the magazine that have to be removed at the rear of the mag. Once these are removed, you can insert the magazine.

There are extensions to the feed lips, I suppose to strengthen them, at the front. These are absent on the AICS. When inserted and removed, you can see marks on these feed lip extensions. I removed a little at a time to the point I'm getting almost no marks. The magazine appears to seat as far as the AICS.

I thought I was ready to try feeding cartridges. No go. The bolt picks up the top of the case rim, the cartridge begins to go forward slightly, then the bolt over rides the case. It's almost as if the spring is too weak.

Anyway, that's where I'm at. </div></div>

It is not that the spring is too weak, the magazine is not far enough up into the action, the DBM could be inletted deeper bringing the magazine into the action. The ride over is exactly what happened with the AI 223 mags until I got the magazine far enough into the action, then they feed fine and 308 (metal mags)feed very smooth with the same set up </div></div>

ive got the atlas worx bottom metal that takes aics mags, its similar to the badger in terms of compatibility. if i have my gunsmith inlet the rifle a bit higher, how much of a risk is it to mess the whole thing up and make it where other mags won't feed? also any idea if i have him do this if it would be reversible? id love to get these mags to work. i bought a 5 rounder and im going to try to figure something out.

any idea why the polymer mags seem to always need a higher inlet? seems strange to me

 

[Northland]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

Magpul needs to make some AICS mags!!

 

[Wild_Bill]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

i dont know how you can inlet a stock 1/8" deeper and the 308 mags stil work because the latch would not clip over the 308 mag if the rifle was setup correctly in the first place.

I have fitted both 223 and 308 AICS compatable bottom metal from Glen Seekins and both the 223 and 308 mags work perfectly when setup correctly. there is no way that the 308 would strip out a round if it was 1/8" lower in the stock and on the other end there is no way either would lock in if the bottom metal was 1/8" higher in the stock first of all the trigger would be hard into the trigger bow.

My advice to anyone thinking of using these like i am make your rifle work with an AI mag or compatable metal mag and then ONLY if the Ruger mags work use them dont ruin your rifle trying to chase something that might ruin your rifle.

1/8" is around 3mm or 125 thou remember i do know that bottom metal has to be fitted correctly but there is not 1/8" play in a correctly fitted 308 AICS if it is 1/8" low it wont strip a 308 from its mag.

If you do not believe me ask Glen the tolerance from his system working correctly from being to high or two low.

We are his Australian Agents and know how to correctly fit the Seekins AICS bottom metal and you can not do it plus or minus 1/8"

As a side note i believe Glens DBM units for AICS are the most superiour units anywhere in fit and strength, also the way glen has manufactured them means they are the best to inlet for only taking paralell cuts there are no weird angles or tapers they just work perfectly and also i believe the strongest with the best mag latch by far.

 

[vtb]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tmckay2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
any idea why the polymer mags seem to always need a higher inlet? seems strange to me</div></div>

http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?topic=1424.0

here is side-by-side comparison AI - Ruger - Alpha

I think the main issue not in the height of feed leeps, but because of their form.

Looked at the pics and at the reciever of my Rem700 i thought that:

If my idea is right - than there are 2 ways:
1. Try to remove bit of plastic at the mag and see will or will not feed lips break (after removing the plastic) under inside-to-out pressure of round pushed by spring
Or
2. Look if reciever can be opened a bit at the magazine port. I think it'll be the easiest option - to make flatter cant at the magazine port of the reciever.

Anyway - i'll wait till my RGSR plastic mags arrive.

 

[bolloxinaspanner]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

If a magazine won't work without altering the stock or action I would call that a bust. If you can't alter the magazine to get it to work I would call that a bust. I have altered the AICS mags to feed 6mmBR rounds reliably, both the metal and polymer. I would think that the feed lips are where the solution may be found. If the bolt is overriding the round then relieving some of the material on the lips may allow the cartridge to engage the bolt. That would have to be done carefully as too much relief may cause the round to pop up too soon in the bolt cycle and cause a jam.

 

[George63]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tmckay2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mtquivr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've had one of the Ruger mags for about a week trying to make it work.

I have a Savage model 10 in a McRee chassis. The AICS mag functions fine.

The Ruger, at first, couldn't be inserted, it's too wide. There are reinforcing ribs on the body of the magazine that have to be removed at the rear of the mag. Once these are removed, you can insert the magazine.

There are extensions to the feed lips, I suppose to strengthen them, at the front. These are absent on the AICS. When inserted and removed, you can see marks on these feed lip extensions. I removed a little at a time to the point I'm getting almost no marks. The magazine appears to seat as far as the AICS.

I thought I was ready to try feeding cartridges. No go. The bolt picks up the top of the case rim, the cartridge begins to go forward slightly, then the bolt over rides the case. It's almost as if the spring is too weak.

Anyway, that's where I'm at. </div></div>

It is not that the spring is too weak, the magazine is not far enough up into the action, the DBM could be inletted deeper bringing the magazine into the action. The ride over is exactly what happened with the AI 223 mags until I got the magazine far enough into the action, then they feed fine and 308 (metal mags)feed very smooth with the same set up </div></div>

ive got the atlas worx bottom metal that takes aics mags, its similar to the badger in terms of compatibility. if i have my gunsmith inlet the rifle a bit higher, how much of a risk is it to mess the whole thing up and make it where other mags won't feed? also any idea if i have him do this if it would be reversible? id love to get these mags to work. i bought a 5 rounder and im going to try to figure something out.

any idea why the polymer mags seem to always need a higher inlet? seems strange to me </div></div>

see my posts,and others on the atlas works thread for inletting details including exact pillar lengths, IMO the steel 308 mags fed smoother when the DBM was inletted deeper

it is reversible?, yes just use epoxy/bedding to bring the DBM to a shallower position

no idea about polymer vs steel, I thought it was the smaller diameter of the 223 vs 308

 

[George63]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wild_Bill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i dont know how you can inlet a stock 1/8" deeper and the 308 mags stil work because the latch would not clip over the 308 mag if the rifle was setup correctly in the first place.

I have fitted both 223 and 308 AICS compatable bottom metal from Glen Seekins and both the 223 and 308 mags work perfectly when setup correctly. there is no way that the 308 would strip out a round if it was 1/8" lower in the stock and on the other end there is no way either would lock in if the bottom metal was 1/8" higher in the stock first of all the trigger would be hard into the trigger bow.

My advice to anyone thinking of using these like i am make your rifle work with an AI mag or compatable metal mag and then ONLY if the Ruger mags work use them dont ruin your rifle trying to chase something that might ruin your rifle.

1/8" is around 3mm or 125 thou remember i do know that bottom metal has to be fitted correctly but there is not 1/8" play in a correctly fitted 308 AICS if it is 1/8" low it wont strip a 308 from its mag.

If you do not believe me ask Glen the tolerance from his system working correctly from being to high or two low.

We are his Australian Agents and know how to correctly fit the Seekins AICS bottom metal and you can not do it plus or minus 1/8"

As a side note i believe Glens DBM units for AICS are the most superiour units anywhere in fit and strength, also the way glen has manufactured them means they are the best to inlet for only taking paralell cuts there are no weird angles or tapers they just work perfectly and also i believe the strongest with the best mag latch by far.

</div></div>

the issue is not with the quality of badger, seekens etc DBM, some of us have the budget of a 400-500 $ remington so 250+ for DBM + 90 per magazine is not going to work

the atlasworks DBM is of a perfectly fine quality, just a slightly different geometry and was 97 $ delivered!

the limiting factor on how high the mag can go into the action and still latch is when the rounded indent at the top front of the mag touches the bottom of the action this occurred with approx 1/8 additional inlet from when the 308 started to feed + the trigger still has plenty of clearance

I have no doubt these 39 $ mags can work much to the dismay of those selling ASICs mags for double just like the atlasworks DBM works to the dismay of the competition selling for triple

 

[Wild_Bill]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

the thig is that both the 308 and 223 AICS mags are designed to work without any modification to mags or bottom metal. lets keep it simple so all is AI and rem parts. so we get a rem 700 and drop it in an AICS stock in 308 and use the AI mags then you get sick of your 308 and sell the rifle after dropping it into its old stock. so you buy a 223 and then drop that into the AICS stock and get plastic 223 mags. the same stock with the same height catch will still work in both. If you had extra clearence where you could place the bottom metal in an extra 1/8" i would bet the 308 would not feed either. Yes the bottommetal has to be inleted as close as possible to the action where the top of the mag is just missing the action when the mag is fitted or has slight contact with the action. if you use a Quality mag to set your rifle up you will not be able to reinlet 1/8" further at all no mag will fit.

I know that a small amount of increased inleting can help but the issue here was someone telling others to just inlet the DBM and i Quote "1/8 deeper" this is totaly incorrect.

Just be carefull with the ruger mags removing from the inside of the feed lips because they are designed to be able to top load so if you open them up they will likley spring through the top of the mag as the mag is designed to spring open to load.

Has anyone actualy tried to use a genuine AI mag in a ruger rifle? is their DBM just similar as they state?

The other thing to try is if someone has a Badger or other action that uses AW mags they have a wider inlet in the action and this might allow the mag to seat higher.

 

[chakup]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wild_Bill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I know that a small amount of increased inleting can help but the issue here was someone telling others to just inlet the DBM and i Quote "1/8 deeper" this is totaly incorrect.
</div></div>

Wasn't my post and I had to read what spawned this. The first poster states that Ruger mag won't feed (maybe I missed it but post doesn't say works with AICS mags) and the reply was- sounds like the 223 mags need to inlet another 1/8", not to jump in blindly. I feel robbed now reading those long reply's to see not much reason.

 

[sudnrush]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

Any one got the ruger 10 round mags that want to sell them? No one has them in stock.
I'd like to take a look at this myself to see if something can be done to let them fit an aics with out ruining the ability to run AI mags.

 

[mtquivr]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

Try ShopRuger.com, that's where I bought mine.

 

[WhiteDingo]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

There is one definate plus side to these; it gives those of us using 22/6/6.5 BR/X repeaters cheaper mags to screw up. That's really the only use I'm seeing for these.

 

[tmckay2]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

i am having my gunsmith inlet my stock now and try to get it to work with the ruger mags. ill let you know how it goes. they fit in my bottom metal like a charm, just might have to inlet a bit deeper.

 

[roggom]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

tag

 

[tmckay2]

Re: New Plastic AICS mags - cheap AND reliable?

alright well its not doable without altering the bottom metal itself. even with it hitting the receiver, the bolt with grab the round but sooner or later end up just pushing over top of it. its very close though. i think since they are plastic, and cheap, altering them is very doable. im thinking adding some epoxy or something to the notch and then filing it down just a tad will let it sit higher. additionally, if you don't plan to top load much, you could file a bit off the lips and maybe epoxy the follower a bit to let the round sit just a tad higher. probably needs a few millimeters total to work. the other possibility is that it could be due to the lack of anti tilt follower. so you may be able to remedy this in some creative way. im going to try some epoxy stuff first.