Rifle Scopes New Primary Arms PLXC 1-8 FFP

[Thorbeast]

Im excited for the SFP 1-8. It's a LPVO, ease of use on 1X is the name of the game. SFP with a crosshair reticle is easy. My expectation is that this will be a lighter/smaller razor.

Sometimes simpler is better. I understand all the discussion about reticle pros and cons at distance, but most of these FFPs just aren't great at 1x. I think the FC-DMX is probably the closest we've come to FFP LPVO perfection, but it's still not ideal for me at 1x. Without illum, it takes some effort to "find" the reticle. I don't want to have to "look" for the reticle on 1x. I just want it unambiguously in my sight picture at all mag levels, under as many situations as possible.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Im excited for the SFP 1-8. It's a LPVO, ease of use on 1X is the name of the game. SFP with a crosshair reticle is easy. My expectation is that this will be a lighter/smaller razor.

Sometimes simpler is better. I understand all the discussion about reticle pros and cons at distance, but most of these FFPs just aren't great at 1x. I think the FC-DMX is probably the closest we've come to FFP LPVO perfection, but it's still not ideal for me at 1x. Without illum, it takes some effort to "find" the reticle. I don't want to have to "look" for the reticle on 1x. I just want it unambiguously in my sight picture at all mag levels, under as many situations as possible.

I'm so on the fence about this one. It looks like a great 1x reticle, exactly what I like, a bright small dot that does all the heavy lifting. But, the lack of windage hold points further down the stadia gives me pause. If I need an 8x scope it's because I'm going to shoot a ways out. If I'm shooting a ways out a need wind hold reference points. This was my biggest gripe with the amazing at 1x but lacking at 6x JM1 reticle in the Razor. Basically I'm just too damn picky is what it comes down to.

 

[Thorbeast]

I agree, I think that's going to be my only complaint with it. But... It's all about trade offs and if I'm using a LPVO, I'll don't want to sacrifice 1x performance. I'm thinking the best trade off for me will be running without the elevation cap and and dialing for elevation and holding for wind on the reticle if the winds get really nasty. I just can't seem to get on the LPVO + RDS band wagon.

I'm of the opinion that if I'm going to run a red dot + scope, I'd rather use a traditional mid-power scope (mark 4 HD or NXS 2.5-10).

 

[Shooter McGavin]

I agree, I think that's going to be my only complaint with it. But... It's all about trade offs and if I'm using a LPVO, I'll don't want to sacrifice 1x performance. I'm thinking the best trade off for me will be running without the elevation cap and and dialing for elevation and holding for wind on the reticle if the winds get really nasty. I just can't seem to get on the LPVO + RDS band wagon.

I'm of the opinion that if I'm going to run a red dot + scope, I'd rather use a traditional mid-power scope (mark 4 HD or NXS 2.5-10).

I wish nightforce still made the smaller obj. I think it was 24mm or 32mm. The 2.5x10 with the 42mm obj just looks wrong for this kind of set up. JMO

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I agree, I think that's going to be my only complaint with it. But... It's all about trade offs and if I'm using a LPVO, I'll don't want to sacrifice 1x performance. I'm thinking the best trade off for me will be running without the elevation cap and and dialing for elevation and holding for wind on the reticle if the winds get really nasty. I just can't seem to get on the LPVO + RDS band wagon.

I'm of the opinion that if I'm going to run a red dot + scope, I'd rather use a traditional mid-power scope (mark 4 HD or NXS 2.5-10).

I agree, with the exception that in my particular use case dialing is not an option. I can't get into the LPVO+RD thing either, but it doesn't matter because I'm not allowed that per the rule set I shoot under.

 

[Twp0366]

I got a PLx-C Nova unit last week and got it out to the range to shoot some groups today. Give me a day or two and I'll get a little write up out for yall. Grouped several different cartridges - some from AAC, Black Hills, Hornady Frontier. I'll probably start a new thread to cover everything, so I may just link it here in my next post...

 

[koshkin]

I'm so on the fence about this one. It looks like a great 1x reticle, exactly what I like, a bright small dot that does all the heavy lifting. But, the lack of windage hold points further down the stadia gives me pause. If I need an 8x scope it's because I'm going to shoot a ways out. If I'm shooting a ways out a need wind hold reference points. This was my biggest gripe with the amazing at 1x but lacking at 6x JM1 reticle in the Razor. Basically I'm just too damn picky is what it comes down to.

I just received the 1-8x24 PLxC with the Nova reticle and started looking at it. It will reach out there if you need it to, but, for obvious reasons, FFP LPVOs are better at that. It is at its best within the MPBR or thereabouts like all SFP LPVOs. With a fiber reticle, you can not really get a tree in there and with SFP scopes, I do not like trees, to be honest.

The scope is very good on 1x. Very fast to acquire the reticle. Eyebox is good. Performance seems very even across magnifications. It is nice to see PA push the excellent PLxC design forward in both FFP and SFP configurations. If they get the diffractive reticle into the FFP model, it will really put serious pressure on Nightforce and Vortex, among others.

I really like how the mid-range LPVO world is working out at the moment. Many products are becoming truly mature and while there is no perfection in this world, you can get a lot for your money in what is essentially mid-range. PLxC in the $1500-ish range is compelling and will be putting pressure on a lot higher priced scopes.

With SFP, we have PA SLx 1-6x24 Nova, Vortex PST Gen2 1-6x24, Delta Stryker 1-6x24, Vortex, Razor Gen2E 1-6x24, PA PLxC 1-8x24, Kahles K16i/K18i. All are pretty easy to use, offer a lot for the money and good reticle visibility.

With FFP, we have SAI6 1-6x24, PA PLxC 1-8x24, Delta Stryker 1-10x28, Vortex Razor Gen3 1-10x24, Nightforce ATACR 1-8x24, March 1-10x24 DFP, S&B Dual CC 1-8x24. I have not been happy with the under $1k FFP LPVOs, but from SAI6 and on up, there is a good amount of variety to match different applications.

ILya

 

[TonyTheTiger]

With a fiber reticle, you can not really get a tree in there and with SFP scopes, I do not like trees, to be honest.

So how do you go about holding for wind?

 

[Bluedog82]

So how do you go about holding for wind?

If the 1-8 Nova is the same as the 1-6, then there’s really no consideration for wind in the reticle. It’s just not made for shooting at distances where wind would be a factor.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

If the 1-8 Nova is the same as the 1-6, then there’s really no consideration for wind in the reticle. It’s just not made for shooting at distances where wind would be a factor.

That's kind of my point/gripe. Wind is pretty much always a factor where I live. Anything beyond 350 yards will need some hold. Not sure why I'm the only person with this problem.

 

[koshkin]

So how do you go about holding for wind?

If there is a lot of wind, dial elevation and hold for wind.

It is cumbersome, but doable.

I prefer FFP if there is a significant amount of distance shooting. For obvious reasons.

ILya

 

[TonyTheTiger]

If there is a lot of wind, dial elevation and hold for wind.

It is cumbersome, but doable.

I prefer FFP if there is a significant amount of distance shooting. For obvious reasons.

ILya

I would do that for recreational shooting, but for my main use case I'm on the clock and targets will be at mixed ranges from 3 feet to 600 yards and everywhere in between, so dialing is not an option.
Don't take this as me being argumentative, I'm just illustrating how niche my requirements must be that very few reticles will do what I need.

 

[koshkin]

I would do that for recreational shooting, but for my main use case I'm on the clock and targets will be at mixed ranges from 3 feet to 600 yards and everywhere in between, so dialing is not an option.
Don't take this as me being argumentative, I'm just illustrating how niche my requirements must be that very few reticles will do what I need.

I am not taking it that way at all. Besides, I like arguments either way. For your use, a well made FFP scope is going to be a better fit. SFP LPVOs are at their best when they are mostly within MPBR with only occasional forays further out.

Razor Gen3 1-10x24 works well once the distances open up. ATACR 1-8x24. March 1-10x24 DFP is another good option. S&B Dual CC is another jump up the price ladder, but it works as does Minox ZP8.

Frankly, I kinda like the SAI6 for this kind of stuff as well, although it is not quite as easy to pick up the reticle on 1x. Good enough for my purposes.

ILya

 

[bwo44]

Another productive weekend with the PLXc
Hogs were 70-100 yds
Magnification was ~3-6x
I really like this reticle in the middle of its range (3-6x)

 

[PappyM3]

That's kind of my point/gripe. Wind is pretty much always a factor where I live. Anything beyond 350 yards will need some hold. Not sure why I'm the only person with this problem.

Handle wind the same way soldiers do/did with the ACOG or Vortex Razor Gen II 1-6.

I’ve successfully made repeatable hits on e types to 600+ meters with an ACOG equipped M4 in high winds. Just requires holding off target, sometimes multiples of target width.

That said, I fully agree with your point. I have a hard time justifying any LPVO with a reticle that doesn’t have wind holds.

I would do that for recreational shooting, but for my main use case I'm on the clock and targets will be at mixed ranges from 3 feet to 600 yards and everywhere in between, so dialing is not an option.
Don't take this as me being argumentative, I'm just illustrating how niche my requirements must be that very few reticles will do what I need.

Your requirements may be niche in the civilian world (I don’t think they are), but for a “combat” optic, they’re pretty relevant.

 

[st1650]

I like the scope form factor but I can't stand the reticles.
Why can't they make a clean milrad based like the ETR 1-10 or the Vudu 1-10.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Handle wind the same way soldiers do/did with the ACOG or Vortex Razor Gen II 1-6.

I’ve successfully made repeatable hits on e types to 600+ meters with an ACOG equipped M4 in high winds. Just requires holding off target, sometimes multiples of target width.

Oh yeah, I've been there, but it's not fun. And I have a hard time spending money on things that I know won't be fun. The make up shots required to walk a few rounds out to an imaginary 3 mil hold can easily take you from a stage win to a nobody.

 

[NHR]

I like the scope form factor but I can't stand the reticles.
Why can't they make a clean milrad based like the ETR 1-10 or the Vudu 1-10.

I'd add the Atacr 1-8 to the list of reticles.

 

[FRESHPRINCE556]

Sorry if this has already been asked and answered. I searched and could not find the answer. Does anyone know what the plxc 1-8 griffin mil reticle chevron subtensions are? I can't seem to find the mil measurements listing for the chevron anywhere.

 

[sboone]

Sorry if this has already been asked and answered. I searched and could not find the answer. Does anyone know what the plxc 1-8 griffin mil reticle chevron subtensions are? I can't seem to find the mil measurements listing for the chevron anywhere.

https://www.primaryarms.com/core/media/media.nl?id=18137255&c=3901023&h=DJxrt6-ut1DhuqlBjyR7BQeP_t-cbsKnQOBkbWuYzgVZdy2n

It is manual 2 on the product page

 

[hlee]

Uh, no. If I can ID something at 1x I'm not doing it through a scope while fiddling with the throw lever.

I don’t think he is saying zoom out for target ID. I think he is saying he keeps the scope on low power when snap shooting might be necessary (bear country), but has the ability to zoom in for target ID and shooting when necessary. It can be used on low power for snap shooting, but the primary use case is more precision oriented.

This is my use case for a LPVO. Walking into a deer stand, my primary concerns are “threats” and I keep the scope zoomed out. We don’t have bears, but we do have coyotes and mountain lions. However, when I am “on stand,” low power allows me to more easily find the target (large field of view), then zoom in for target ID. I’m not backing the power back off to shoot- if the target is what I’m looking for, I shoot. If the target can be ID’d and scored at 1x (not all deer are legal, and one must be sure before firing), I’ll shoot at whatever power I’m on. My use case is a magnified optic that can be pressed in to snap shooting if necessary.

 

[FRESHPRINCE556]

https://www.primaryarms.com/core/media/media.nl?id=18137255&c=3901023&h=DJxrt6-ut1DhuqlBjyR7BQeP_t-cbsKnQOBkbWuYzgVZdy2n

It is manual 2 on the product page

So is the center to outside width of the chevron 1mil? What about center to inside width of the chevron and overall height?

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I don’t think he is saying zoom out for target ID. I think he is saying he keeps the scope on low power when snap shooting might be necessary (bear country), but has the ability to zoom in for target ID and shooting when necessary. It can be used on low power for snap shooting, but the primary use case is more precision oriented.

This is my use case for a LPVO. Walking into a deer stand, my primary concerns are “threats” and I keep the scope zoomed out. We don’t have bears, but we do have coyotes and mountain lions. However, when I am “on stand,” low power allows me to more easily find the target (large field of view), then zoom in for target ID. I’m not backing the power back off to shoot- if the target is what I’m looking for, I shoot. If the target can be ID’d and scored at 1x (not all deer are legal, and one must be sure before firing), I’ll shoot at whatever power I’m on. My use case is a magnified optic that can be pressed in to snap shooting if necessary.

That's all fair enough. But it does sound like something that could be done with a 2x optic, which opens up a lot of options with more top end magnification and higher image quality/fewer compromises at the precision end of things. 1x optics with more than 6x max mag all seem so compromised that it seems like that 1x must be very important to a user. If the 1x isn't that important, why not step up to an MPVO?
Not arguing, just thinking out loud.

 

[rlsmith1]

That's all fair enough. But it does sound like something that could be done with a 2x optic, which opens up a lot of options with more top end magnification and higher image quality/fewer compromises at the precision end of things. 1x optics with more than 6x max mag all seem so compromised that it seems like that 1x must be very important to a user. If the 1x isn't that important, why not step up to an MPVO?
Not arguing, just thinking out loud.

I don’t disagree, but I have the PLXc on my 14.5” because it is crazy short and weighs less than 17oz. Only way to go smaller and lighter is an ACOG but there’s trade offs there too. The 1-8x is very nice behind a clip on thermal too.

The MPVO is perfect for my 18” 6 ARC where size / weight isn’t as much of a concern (and I’ll be using a larger clip on for better image under 10x mag)

 

[st1650]

I don’t disagree, but I have the PLXc on my 14.5” because it is crazy short and weighs less than 17oz. Only way to go smaller and lighter is an ACOG but there’s trade offs there too. The 1-8x is very nice behind a clip on thermal too.

The MPVO is perfect for my 18” 6 ARC where size / weight isn’t as much of a concern (and I’ll be using a larger clip on for better image under 10x mag)

That’s one of the reasons I’m considering the plxc is the weight and form factor to be used behind a RH25 clip on.

 

[Ape_Factory]

The weight is pretty amazing. With the PLX mount, it's the same weight as the average RDO and say a 3x magnifier on QD mounts.

 

[hlee]

That's all fair enough. But it does sound like something that could be done with a 2x optic, which opens up a lot of options with more top end magnification and higher image quality/fewer compromises at the precision end of things. 1x optics with more than 6x max mag all seem so compromised that it seems like that 1x must be very important to a user. If the 1x isn't that important, why not step up to an MPVO?
Not arguing, just thinking out loud.

Yeah I get that. I think part of it is astetic. A LPVO looks right on a light weight rifle. Then, there is the weight. Greater mag generally means more weight. And, there’s the whole “2 eyes open shooting” thing. (My left eye must not work, as I’ve never had a problem with this.) Finally, MPVOs are just the forgotten middle brother of the optical gun sight family.

 

[NHR]

So is the center to outside width of the chevron 1mil? What about center to inside width of the chevron and overall height?

According to PA that is top secret proprietary info that you have no need to know.

 

[NHR]

Yeah I get that. I think part of it is astetic. A LPVO looks right on a light weight rifle. Then, there is the weight. Greater mag generally means more weight. And, there’s the whole “2 eyes open shooting” thing. (My left eye must not work, as I’ve never had a problem with this.) Finally, MPVOs are just the forgotten middle brother of the optical gun sight family.

I don't know, I sure like the look of my 2.5-10 x32 NXS on an AR.

 

[FRESHPRINCE556]

According to PA that is top secret proprietary info that you have no need to know.

I knew pa wouldn't share their bdc subtensions . But pa not sharing their subtensions on a mil grid reticle is ridiculous. @marsh1 can you help get me this info? I would just like to know what the subtensions are on the chevron portion only in the plxc 1 -8 griffin mil reticle .

 

[Tictacticaltimmy]

From what I can tell the corners of the Chevron are .8m in both windage and elevation. The 2.5-10 griffin mil is also the same.

 

[st1650]

What else is there in the 1500$ range for short FFP LPVO? Specifically to be used for less than 200y range, mostly behind a clipon.
Rail space is limited trying to fit a LAM as well, so would prefer less than 10in length
Looking at the SAI 1-6, Vudu 1-10 and the PLXc 1-8.
PLXc is front runner but that chevron seems a bit big, especially for shots on 4 legged predators. I keep going back to the SAI 1-6 with the rapid mrad reticle but it's a bit longer.

 

[bwo44]

@st1650
For reference:
Javelina at 80 yds

Hog at 100 yds through thermal clip on

Hog at 80 yds

Hogs at 30 yds

Coyote at 60 yds through thermal clip on

Hog at 120 yds

Hog at 50 yds

 

[PappyM3]

What else is there in the 1500$ range for short FFP LPVO? Specifically to be used for less than 200y range, mostly behind a clipon.
Rail space is limited trying to fit a LAM as well, so would prefer less than 10in length
Looking at the SAI 1-6, Vudu 1-10 and the PLXc 1-8.
PLXc is front runner but that chevron seems a bit big, especially for shots on 4 legged predators. I keep going back to the SAI 1-6 with the rapid mrad reticle but it's a bit longer.

If you’re staying less than 200 yards, is there a reason you’re not looking at SFP too? That’s solidly in max point blank range for most cartridges.

Completely outside your specifications, but well within your CONOPS, is the Elcan Specte 1-4. It’s short, can be had barely used for $1,500, has good light collection and field of view, and you can choose to illuminate the entire reticle/stadia for night shooting. That said, the 4x may be too little for your preferences.

Edit: another option is a used (or discounted) NF NX8

 

[st1650]

How do you like the “flatness” of the image behind the clip on ? Have you compared to other LPVOs ? Better / Same?

 

[st1650]

If you’re staying less than 200 yards, is there a reason you’re not looking at SFP too? That’s solidly in max point blank range for most cartridges.

Completely outside your specifications, but well within your CONOPS, is the Elcan Specte 1-4. It’s short, can be had barely used for $1,500, has good light collection and field of view, and you can choose to illuminate the entire reticle/stadia for night shooting. That said, the 4x may be too little for your preferences.

FFP allows you to use hold over with subsonic at like 1.5-3x if required. Not a deal breaker. I would do a modern 1-4 SFP if such thing existed.

 

[bwo44]

How do you like the “flatness” of the image behind the clip on ? Have you compared to other LPVOs ? Better / Same?

I am not sure what you mean by flatness. I have not noticed a difference between my Razor 1-10 and the PLXc behind my Steiner C35. Both have a nice clean image behind the clip on (better than the above pictures would lead you to believe).

 

[Bluedog82]

For anyone interested, here is the view of a 2/3rd IPSC torso at 600 on 8x. Mirage was fairly substantial, but I thought it cut through it great. I was able to get repeated hits with my 16” Geissele 5.56 using RMR 69gr hand loads.

 

[bwo44]

10" plate at 200yds, 2/3 IPSCs at 300 and 400yds. Target beyond was 500yds. Wind from right to left at 6 mph for the 53gr. .223. The video does not do the clarity justice. The targets were very clear through the scope (no haziness).