Rifle Scopes New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

[mike82352]

For you guys that have or have looked through both, would I be better to get a new Razor or try and find a used USO or NF?
I have not really looked at any quality scopes, so I need some advice. I would like to get something that is very clear, as the old eyes are not what they use to be. I have been looking through this forum for two weeks, trying to decide what to buy.
Would a USO or NF in 15x be clearer than razor in higher power?
I would like to stay around $1500 but would go higher if I found a killer deal on a better quality scope. Thanks

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

First off, if you haven't looked thru many, if any, higher end optics then you most likely would not see the difference in glass in any of the 3 you have listed. They are all going to have excellent glass that an untrained eye most likely wouldn't be able to see any differences. I've had many NF's and a couple Razors (early models) and they are both great scopes. I've never had or even looked through a USO, but would like to own one in the future.

I doubt your going to find any of the 3 listed scopes for $1500 right now. Most used Razors are selling for $1700-$1900. NF's used are going for $1600-$1750 depending on what features your getting. You might find a non ZS non HS MOA NF for less money if you don't mind that. As for USO, in that Mag range, you won't see anything for less than $2K used.

Don't forget about the SSHD 5-20. It's around $1200-$1300 used on here and has alot of features for the price. Don't buy a new one though, it's overpriced.

 

[luvtolean]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

Really, if you get the chance, try to look through two at the range on the same day.

I've looked through a Razor and Schmidt Bender at 1k, after shooting my Viper all day. No doubt the SB was better than the Razor, and the Razor better than the Viper.

I went from a Vortex Viper to a USO, and it is a big difference.

 

[Sapper524]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

Iron out the features your looking for then save another 500 and get the scope you want. USO and Nightforce both make a great scope. I have used some Vortex PST's but never a Razor so I can't comment on if they are worth the price of addmission ... the USO's and Nightforces are.

If your a MOA shooter I would snag this

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3123176&gonew=1#UNREAD

 

[mike82352]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

OK a little back ground. I'm building a 308 on a XLR chassis with a custom barrel. Basically all I want to do is ring a little steel (I hope) around 800 yards. I have several accurate varmit rifles and I think it would be a lot of fun to learn to shoot at longer distances. I have sightron and weaver 6x24 Mildot scopes. I know that I could use one of those and get by, but I really want a nice scope. I would like to learn how to range distance using the scope. There is not many people at my shooting range that have tactical type scopes, several bench rest guys and there are no stores that carry nice tactical scopes So, with that in mind, would I be happy with say, a PST or should I hold out for something better? I have looked at that USO, but I think I want 1/4moa not 1/2moa knobs? It's really hard to learn about tactical shooting without a little help. That's why I'm here. Thanks

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

The reason guys say to get behind them is that you may perceive the sight picture differently than I do.

Different glass manufacturers use different coatings. These coatings have an effect on the brightness, contrast and color of each scope.

When you select a scope you need to first decide what features matter to you (FFP/SFP, Turret style and configuration) then decide what style of reticle suits your eye and shooting style. Finally you take all that and decide what manufacturer offers what you want. Glass clarity is on the bottom of the "qualifications" list because at the $1000-2000 mark they are pretty close. Getting the reticle and turrets that I need are far more important to me than a miniscule difference in glass.

Right now I would steer you away from the PST. There have been lots of problems cropping up. While Vortex has a great warranty and will take care of it, our local guys have seen more than a couple with unacceptable issues. None of these issues are apparent in the Razor HD line.

Bushnell has some great offerings right now. While they don't get the press that NXS or USO does, they are pushing the edge and have some really neat stuff coming. The HDMR is a scope to look at if you don't need an illuminated reticle. Some have reported "chromatic aberration" or color fringing in some of the HDMRs, but I havent seen it in the three or four that I have looked at and it's not apparent in the HDMR I just got in.

USO is a great option because you can "build" exactly what you want. I have an SN-3 on my AR10 right now. The EREK is a great turret option. The USO's are popular because they are built like a tank.

 

[BigJimFish]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would a USO or NF in 15x be clearer than razor in higher power?</div></div>

When I was looking to upgrade my long range scope I had precisely the same thought regarding a used USO, NF or Razor HD. Regarding the glass clarity, I find NF and the Vortex Razor to be close enough to equal to be not worth arguing about. The USO is better. In this price range, and for a long range application, I really think a scope should be FFP. The ability to range at different magnifications, should lighting or mirage dictate, is desirable. This leaves NF with a 3.5-15x, Vortex with a 5-25x and USO with a 3.2-17x a 3.8-22x and a 5-25x. Depending on your preference of reticles, side focus, illumination, and knobs as well as the magnification the USO will vary greatly in price.

In the end I found a USO 3.2-17x ergo with illumination and their MDMOA reticle for around $1,500 used (this is a particularly good price though typically they are closer to $2k.) My choice was not only motivated by the higher grade glass but probably most importantly by the MDMOA reticle. It has very fine 1moa graduations as well as a nice differential illumination scheme. It is my favorite MOA (actually IPHY) reticle available.

The way I look at it, used is better than new because it holds all its value if you need to, or want to sell it later. You still get warranty coverage despite buying used and you also don't have to be the first one to scratch it. I think USO scopes sell for excellent prices used (often 30% off) and I do hold them in higher esteem than Vortex of NF though all are very high quality and reliable optics. Incidentally, I prefer the USO 3.2-17x ergo to the 5-25x T-pal. The eye box is more comfortable and I find it has better depth of field. It is just more comfortable all around.

Also, you may want to keep an eye out for used Premier light tactical scopes. Even new they are a very fine value. Premier, like USO has noticeably better glass than the NF or Vortex.

 

[71firebird400]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

For me the decision would be easy; if you want FFP go with the Razor, if you want SFP go with the NF. I had a USO and they must put out 'good' and 'bad' ones because the glass in my 3.2-17 TPAL was not impressive to say the least. I replaced it with another NF; they appear to be much more uniform from scope to scope.

 

[Willyz_54]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

FWIW, I was in the same position not too long ago. Luckily I have a buddy who has an addiction to high end optics, so I was able to “test-drive” both USO and NF, and a couple others that were way out of my price range. My budget cap was $1500 + cost of rings. The FFP on the USO was great, especially for ranging at less than maximum magnification, glass quality was great too. The determining factor for me was that I wanted MIL/MIL with HS/ZS, and higher magnification (ended up with an NF 5.5-22x) without busting my budget. The SFP NF does not have the ranging flexibility of the FFP scopes, however there is still some leeway at ½ power to range reasonably accurately. Also, there are certain features like the EREK knob on the USO vs the ZS option on the NF that you may find useful, that will inevitably rule out one scope or the other. As other folks have mentioned, you may really benefit from getting behind the scopes you are interested in to see what looks best to you. It may also help to make a list of the “must have” features i.e. EREK vs ZS, FFP vs SFP, and the “would be nice” features and see which scope has most or all of the “must haves” while still falling within reasonable proximity to your price range. Good luck in your decision making.

 

[mike82352]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

I just don't have the opportunity to look at higher end scopes, and since I'm new to LR shooting, I have to depend on you guys for the knowledge to hopefully find a scope that will work for me. With that in mind, I don't like mil dots that will cover the target at distance. What elevation adjustment should I look for, 1/4, 1/2 moa? There is a 3.2x17 USO here for sale that has 1/2 Moa elevation, and has mil scale Canadian rectical. Good, bad??? I really appreciate the help, I just want to end up with nice glass that will work. I know that as I progress, I will at some future point know what I really want and need. Thanks a bunch!

 

[Sapper524]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

I have never used a Razor so I can't include it in this comparision. This is just NF and USO. If you want a SFP scope then Nightforce is your answer ... skip the rest. If you want FFP then USO and Nightforce stack up like so ...

Parallax - Both have a side focus model, USO has a ERGO or Adjustable Objective

Zero Stops - Nightforce has true zero stops, the EREK can be setup like one

Reticle - both have a variety to choose from to fit almost any application.

Illum - Both have it, the USO has a better control system in my opinion. Simple push button with memory to default back to your last setting. Turning the nightforce on and off is simple by pulling out the side focus parallax. Changing the setting requires getting under the cap, inconvienient in my opinion.

Weight - pretty much a dead heat with them both right around 2lbs

Rear eyepiece - USO whole rear eyepiece does not turn when you change the magnification, the Nightforce does. Not a huge deal, can be annoying with flip up caps, thats why most NF users zip tie the bikini covers to the scope. The nightforce diopter adjustment has a locking ring so once its set it doesn't move, the USO has a fast focus option that doesn't lock.

High Speed Turrents - Nightforce has them and they work great. USO has 9 mils a turn on the standard EREK knob but your windage will still be 5 mils per turn. USO also has a milestone EREK that has 10 i believe and heavier detents or clicks every 10 clicks or every full mil for counting or adjusting by feel.

Objective Diameter - Nightforce comes in 50mm, USO comes in a variety of sizes but if you want side focus you only have the one choice. If you want the ERGO front focus you can get it in the new 37mm low proflile model or 44mm.

Both Nightforce and USO make a fine scope. Each has Pros and Cons. Which features are at the top of your list? The answer lies there, more than likely.

I would recommend 1/4 MOA or .1 mil adjustments. The 1/2 MOA model comes from military setups where they are trying to hit a man at range and speed on the dial is important. Going from 300 yard dope to 850 yard dope takes half as many clicks. Its not as precise but effective for its purpose.

 

[Beef Curtain]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

I just did a side by side comparison of my NF NXS 5.5-22x56 and Vortex Razor 5-20x50. Both have very good but, not great glass. Clarity and brightness, I have to give a slight edge to the NF but, maybe because of the objective size difference. I prefer the EBR-2B recticle over the MLR but, that's personal preference. Most USO's are out of your price point so, that comparison is apples to oranges. It comes down to personal preference. If your going into battle I would go NF if you want recticle ranging capabilities of the FFP and can sacrifice a little on magnification and and brightness of sight picture, go Vortex. Just my two cents.

 

[mike82352]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

Guys, there is a USO 5x25x58 here on hide for sale for 2650,
Is this a good buy? It looks like that scope would be a nice one. I don't know how to link the post....sorry.

NIB USO SN 3 5-25 TPAL

 

[Beef Curtain]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedDog1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys, there is a USO 5x25x58 here on hide for sale for 2650,
Is this a good buy? It looks like that scope would be a nice one. I don't know how to link the post....sorry.

NIB USO SN 3 5-25 TPAL </div></div>

Considering that scope retails for around $3,300, I'd say yes.

 

[PatrickChewing]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

That's not a bad deal at all. If you can swing it, give it a try. I recently got to use a Razor and I really liked it. I cant really comment on how it stacks up against NF because I don't have much experience with them. I still love my Premier but I will prob try a Razor at some point. I have gotten to where I really like the oversized knobs and the Razor seemed very user friendly.

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

I was gonna go Premeir, but when I off load this S&B I think I'm going to pick up a USO 5-25 TPAL.

** Don't PM about buying the S&B. I already have folks in line.

 

[jyd]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

There are a lot more shooters at the tactical rifle matches using the Vortex R
azors. I don't think you'll find a better scope for the money.

 

[264win]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

I have owned at least 2 of each, razor, nxs, uso.
I would go with the Razor for ffp. If you dont need ffp the nxs is a great option.
I have been a little disappointed in the uso scopes I have owned.

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 264win</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have owned at least 2 of each, razor, nxs, uso.
I would go with the Razor for ffp. If you dont need ffp the nxs is a great option.
I have been a little disappointed in the uso scopes I have owned.


</div></div>

Glass or function?

 

[bward]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

After using your S&B, you'll be disappointed in the USO glass.

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After using your S&B, you'll be disappointed in the USO glass. </div></div>

After the day I had Saturday, I may need to go back to a Tasco or Simmons.

 

[bward]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

It happens. But I wouldn't quit using a S&B over it.

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It happens. But I wouldn't quit using a S&B over it.</div></div>

Oh no, not at all. I wasn't even using the S&B that day.......maybe that's what I can blame it on. It was that junky NF I was using. Yeah it happens. I'm still pretty new to it. That was just my second match to shoot in. I shoot in a 1200yd right-away at home......no problem with distance, but I'm very sheltered from the wind by the timber......this has certainly hurt me ony wind reading ability.

 

[asper]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Right now I would steer you away from the PST. There have been lots of problems cropping up. While Vortex has a great warranty and will take care of it, our local guys have seen more than a couple with unacceptable issues.
</div></div>

Just curious...what problems are people having with their PST's?

 

[mike82352]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

After looking through a ton of post, I have decided that I am willing to pay up to $3000 for a scope if that's what I have to do to get a good scope. Just when I think I have made up my mind, I'll read another post and now I have no idea what to get. I am a bit snug with a dollar, I just what the best scope for the best price. How do you guys feel about IOR scopes? They seem to get some good reviews, but sometimes it's hard to tell if they have used any other quality scopes? I really like the options that you can get with USO, but I'm not sure that I really need to spend that much to be happy. I wish local stores had some nice scopes, but they don't. I don't mind spending the money if I only have to buy once. Keep the comments coming and I'll keep on reading, I have about a month before all the parts are in for my rifle. Thanks

 

[BigJimFish]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After looking through a ton of post, I have decided that I am willing to pay up to $3000 for a scope if that's what I have to do to get a good scope. Just when I think I have made up my mind, I'll read another post and now I have no idea what to get. I am a bit snug with a dollar, I just what the best scope for the best price. </div></div>

Now you've done it. You've caught a case of analysis paralysis. You came in knowing the relative price range you wanted to spend and the three brands you were most interested in and now you've got nothing nailed down. Could be worse though. You could have just bought something without doing any research. At least this way when you finally do choose something you will be uncertain as hell about your purchase but it is very unlikely to be a poor one.

By the way, since you seem to be pretty new I will mention that it is a generally poor idea to mix MOA and mil features on the same scope. It complicates your adjustment after a missed shot since what you read off the reticle must be translated before dialing it on the adjustments. If you get a mil based reticle buy mil knobs and if you get an MOA reticle get moa knobs. A few folks mix them but they were generally trained by the military back in the day and are happy to do things they way they always have even if its not the easiest way.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When you select a scope you need to first decide what features matter to you (FFP/SFP, Turret style and configuration) then decide what style of reticle suits your eye and shooting style. Finally you take all that and decide what manufacturer offers what you want. Glass clarity is on the bottom of the "qualifications" list because at the $1000-2000 mark they are pretty close. Getting the reticle and turrets that I need are far more important to me than a miniscule difference in glass.</div></div>
+1

This is precisely what one should consider, and thanks for formulating it so clearly.

 

[turbo54]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedDog1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...After looking through a ton of post, I have decided that I am willing to pay up to $3000 for a scope if that's what I have to do to get a good scope...</div></div>

Then you should look to a Schmidt/Bender or a Premier. Both are excellent. The Benders hold their value better, but are more expensive. If you can score a mil/mil 5-25 Bender for $2700-$2900 (ish), you'll be able to sell it for what you've got in it, and will have owned it for free.

Now, just pick your reticle.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: asper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Just curious...what problems are people having with their PST's? </div></div>

The main issue I have seen locally is debris in the scope. I just got off the phone with Vortex today discussing the issue. Several guys here have had crap on the reticle lens. It varied from small flecks to one with a glob of what looked like grease.

My contact at Vortex told me that those sounded like the issues with the early run of scopes and that they have taken steps that have resolved this in later production. I don't have any data on the build dates of the scopes in question. I can tell you that Vortex customer service has taken care of the guys I have spoken with.

We have several guys who are satisfied with the Viper PST scopes. I still don't have one that I can run through an evaluation, so I can't comment on it more than that.

After speaking with them I now know that when I encounter someone with a PST issue, it would be best to track down the build date. That will give me an idea on if the issue is resolved.

However when we are talking about the Vortex Razor, I can absolutely, positively recommend it as an excellent scope.

 

[42769vette]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

a buddy of mine has a uso sn3 and i have a razor. he nor i can tell any diffrencec what so ever

 

[Southpaw357]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

I think that you cannot go wrong with any of the premium scopes you are discussing. They are quality products. I like what Lone Wolf USMC has to say, it seems like very practical advice. Buying new is nice, but the minute you take delivery of it and open the box it is "used". I am quite happy with my NF 3.5-15x for shooting out to 1,000 yards. In competition, I can't change the magnification as fast as on a USO since it takes more force to turn the eyepiece on the NF, but I have an MGM cat tail on it now and that helps quite a bit.

 

[mike82352]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

When I started out I was thinking more in line of a Vortex PST. The more I read the more I started thinking about something better. When I saw the USO EREK, I fell in love, I really like the gap reticle. I also like the EBR-3 vortex reticle. The NF NP-R2 and the premier genII XR. I'm not fond of the real cluttered reticles or the big mil dot reticles. Is there a big advantage to one reticle over the other (mil or moa)? I'm not afraid to spend the money if I like what I bought. I went through this when I bought my PVS-14 night vision, it was a lot of money, but I have no regrets. I would love a S&B, but they are more than I am willing to spend. I guess my first choice would be a USO then Premier then I'm not sure. I have several sightrons and they would probrably work, but I don't like the reticles and I would like better glass, not sure how there glass compares to the higher end scopes. I could live with a PST, but would always wished for something better. I would really rather buy once and be happy.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedDog1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I started out I was thinking more in line of a Vortex PST. The more I read the more I started thinking about something better. When I saw the USO EREK, I fell in love, I really like the gap reticle. I also like the EBR-3 vortex reticle. The NF NP-R2 and the premier genII XR.</div></div>
I considered all those reticles, and finally decided that Vortex's EBR-2 (and later EBR-2B) is the best compromise overall for my precision shooting needs. I also looked at the reticles that S&B offered.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedDog1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'm not fond of the real cluttered reticles or the big mil dot reticles.</div></div>
This is exactly why I settled on EBR-2. It had "enough" stuff to be useful - but not "too much" to feel cluttered or obscure what I need to see.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedDog1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there a big advantage to one reticle over the other (mil or moa)?</div></div>
To me it's MIL all the way (including FFP reticle and matching turrets). Some people prefer MOA and do quite well with it. I'd say having turrets matching your reticle is the most important conclusion to reach from the MIL-vs-MOA argument.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedDog1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...I guess my first choice would be a USO then Premier then I'm not sure. I have several sightrons and they would probrably work, but I don't like the reticles and I would like better glass, not sure how there glass compares to the higher end scopes. I could live with a PST, but would always wished for something better. I would really rather buy once and be happy. </div></div>
You consider PST, and then compare it to USO or Premier? It's Razor HD that's in the "Premier and USO" league, not PST.

 

[mwroseberry]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

I have a shooting Buddy with a razor. I have an st-10 and he will straight tell you that in the clarity department its not even a fair fight. The sn-3s and st's with the objective focus are much clearer than any side focus scope regardless of make because there is one less lense to fog up or distort the image with imperfections. I know that's a bold statement but no scope has perfect glass and the more lenses you add the more clouded the image becomes.

Also everyone is worried about having to fine tune a objective focus all the time but with my st-10 I could leave my focus on 500 yards and shoot a complete match with targets from 300-1200y with no problem what so ever.

Good luck,
Merritt

 

[mouse07410]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mwroseberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a shooting Buddy with a razor. I have an st-10 and he will straight tell you that in the clarity department its not even a fair fight. The sn-3s and st's with the objective focus are much clearer than any side focus scope regardless of make because there is one less lense to fog up or distort the image with imperfections. I know that's a bold statement but no scope has perfect glass and the more lenses you add the more clouded the image becomes.</div></div>
No scope has perfect glass, and the following quote describes perfectly what qualities an experienced person looks for in the scope (note that the clarity is there, but at the bottom of the list):

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">When you select a scope you need to first decide what features matter to you (FFP/SFP, Turret style and configuration) then decide what style of reticle suits your eye and shooting style. Finally you take all that and decide what manufacturer offers what you want. Glass clarity is on the bottom of the "qualifications" list because at the $1000-2000 mark they are pretty close. Getting the reticle and turrets that I need are far more important to me than a miniscule difference in glass.</span></div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mwroseberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also everyone is worried about having to fine tune a objective focus all the time but with my st-10 I could leave my focus on 500 yards and shoot a complete match with targets from 300-1200y with no problem what so ever.</div></div>
Well, that's one advantage of a simpler fixed-power no-focal-plane-choice scope. I guess there are disadvantages also - or we all would've been running $1.5K 10x scopes rather than those $2-$3K variable power less-clarity-but-more-features stuff, no?

For what it's worth - PSO scope (think SVD

) is very clear. Somehow it never appealed to me.

 

[71firebird400]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mwroseberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a shooting Buddy with a razor. I have an st-10 and he will straight tell you that in the clarity department its not even a fair fight. The sn-3s and st's with the objective focus are much clearer than any side focus scope regardless of make because there is one less lense to fog up or distort the image with imperfections. I know that's a bold statement but no scope has perfect glass and the more lenses you add the more clouded the image becomes.

Also everyone is worried about having to fine tune a objective focus all the time but with my st-10 I could leave my focus on 500 yards and shoot a complete match with targets from 300-1200y with no problem what so ever.

Good luck,
Merritt </div></div>

Well USO definitely puts out "good" and "bad" scopes when it comes to resolution. I definitely had a BAD one, and before you start making statements like "The sn-3s and st's with the objective focus are much clearer than any side focus scope regardless of make because there is one less lense to fog up or distort the image with imperfections" I would suggest you take your ST/SN-3 and compare it to a S&B/Premier/Hensoldt just to see how 'bad' those side focus scopes are.

 

[Buzz10]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

Mouse,
I couldn't agree with you more. Glass quality would be the last thing on my list when comparing scopes in the 2k-3k range. I guess when you have an st-10 the only thing to really get excited about is the glass. I never really understood overpaying for fixed power scope when one could spend the same or alittle more and have a top notch variable power with an FFP option. To call the Razor vs USO glass not even a fair fight is pretty far fetched. I've been fortunate to use most high end scopes except a Hendsolt and I would put USO at the bottom of the "high end" list.

 

[Quickdraw40]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

Go to match, look through lots of glass, then spend four figures.

 

[mwroseberry]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mwroseberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a shooting Buddy with a razor. I have an st-10 and he will straight tell you that in the clarity department its not even a fair fight. The sn-3s and st's with the objective focus are much clearer than any side focus scope regardless of make because there is one less lense to fog up or distort the image with imperfections. I know that's a bold statement but no scope has perfect glass and the more lenses you add the more clouded the image becomes.

Also everyone is worried about having to fine tune a objective focus all the time but with my st-10 I could leave my focus on 500 yards and shoot a complete match with targets from 300-1200y with no problem what so ever.

Good luck,
Merritt </div></div>

Well USO definitely puts out "good" and "bad" scopes when it comes to resolution. I definitely had a BAD one, and before you start making statements like "The sn-3s and st's with the objective focus are much clearer than any side focus scope regardless of make because there is one less lense to fog up or distort the image with imperfections" I would suggest you take your ST/SN-3 and compare it to a S&B/Premier/Hensoldt just to see how 'bad' those side focus scopes are.
</div></div>

Already did that in December at TVP. Hensoldt wasn't there but S&B and Premier was and I wasn't impressed. Yes you have more magnification but my current rig is built for 0-1200 yards so my fixed 10 has enough for me. Now if I was wanting to shoot to 2k or 2500 yards then yes you have a point. Or if you're shooting at smaller game at 800+.

Good luck,
Merritt

 

[71firebird400]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mwroseberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mwroseberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a shooting Buddy with a razor. I have an st-10 and he will straight tell you that in the clarity department its not even a fair fight. The sn-3s and st's with the objective focus are much clearer than any side focus scope regardless of make because there is one less lense to fog up or distort the image with imperfections. I know that's a bold statement but no scope has perfect glass and the more lenses you add the more clouded the image becomes.

Also everyone is worried about having to fine tune a objective focus all the time but with my st-10 I could leave my focus on 500 yards and shoot a complete match with targets from 300-1200y with no problem what so ever.

Good luck,
Merritt </div></div>

Well USO definitely puts out "good" and "bad" scopes when it comes to resolution. I definitely had a BAD one, and before you start making statements like "The sn-3s and st's with the objective focus are much clearer than any side focus scope regardless of make because there is one less lense to fog up or distort the image with imperfections" I would suggest you take your ST/SN-3 and compare it to a S&B/Premier/Hensoldt just to see how 'bad' those side focus scopes are.
</div></div>

Already did that in December at TVP. Hensoldt wasn't there but S&B and Premier was and I wasn't impressed. Yes you have more magnification but my current rig is built for 0-1200 yards so my fixed 10 has enough for me. Now if I was wanting to shoot to 2k or 2500 yards then yes you have a point. Or if you're shooting at smaller game at 800+.

Good luck,
Merritt </div></div>

You are literally the only person I've ever talked to that thinks USO has better glass than S&B or Premier. Congratulations, you apparently have a better USO than everyone else

 

[steve123]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

I suggest you choose your scope based on you're most desired features rather than a specific brand.

Things to consider...

Does the scopes weight matter?

Do you want high speed type knobs?

Do you need illumination?

How much magnification do you want on the low end and high end.

Reticle types?

Mil or MOA?

Warranty/CS


These are some of my conclusions.

Every scope regardless of price has things about them I'm not enthused about.

Every scope regardless of price can and will probably break.

And finally, I don't need a $3000+ scope to be competitive.

Except for shooting exclusively in the "prone position" I dislike heavy scopes and heavy rifles,especially combined.

So far in my quest for the perfect scope I'd have to give the NF-F1 best all around. That could change if I ever get to try out a March 3-24 or their new 5-40.

 

[CS95]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mwroseberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mwroseberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a shooting Buddy with a razor. I have an st-10 and he will straight tell you that in the clarity department its not even a fair fight. The sn-3s and st's with the objective focus are much clearer than any side focus scope regardless of make because there is one less lense to fog up or distort the image with imperfections. I know that's a bold statement but no scope has perfect glass and the more lenses you add the more clouded the image becomes.

Also everyone is worried about having to fine tune a objective focus all the time but with my st-10 I could leave my focus on 500 yards and shoot a complete match with targets from 300-1200y with no problem what so ever.

Good luck,
Merritt </div></div>

Well USO definitely puts out "good" and "bad" scopes when it comes to resolution. I definitely had a BAD one, and before you start making statements like "The sn-3s and st's with the objective focus are much clearer than any side focus scope regardless of make because there is one less lense to fog up or distort the image with imperfections" I would suggest you take your ST/SN-3 and compare it to a S&B/Premier/Hensoldt just to see how 'bad' those side focus scopes are.
</div></div>

Already did that in December at TVP. Hensoldt wasn't there but S&B and Premier was and I wasn't impressed. Yes you have more magnification but my current rig is built for 0-1200 yards so my fixed 10 has enough for me. Now if I was wanting to shoot to 2k or 2500 yards then yes you have a point. Or if you're shooting at smaller game at 800+.

Good luck,
Merritt </div></div>


You didnt by chance have the other scopes mentioned set on their highest power while comparing to a 10x scope did ya?

 

[mike82352]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

Well.....after a lot of brain busting, I have bought a used Razor from a fellow hide member. I guess what kept coming up, was pick something with the features I am looking for and in the price range that I'm willing to spend. I took that advice, Thank you all very much.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

I have an st-10 and have compared it to just about everything out there. While I won't say it smokes s&b it is on par with it. NF ain't even close. But if these guys made 10x fixed it may be more apples to apples.

 

[Buzz10]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

You will be very happy with your Razor, Congrats! what reticle?

 

[BigJimFish]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well.....after a lot of brain busting, I have bought a used Razor from a fellow hide member. I guess what kept coming up, was pick something with the features I am looking for and in the price range that I'm willing to spend. I took that advice, Thank you all very much.</div></div>

Congrats, I think you will be quite pleased.

 

[oneshot.onehit]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

Congrats on a great scope

You can go to the Vortex Tactical website and check out a few of the videos as far as mounting and setting up the zero stop if needed, otherwise pm me if you run into any questions setting it up I will try to help if needed.

oneshot.onehit

 

[quattrodoc]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

You won't regret the Razor HD - I have a couple and they are great!

 

[mike82352]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

I got the EBR-3 reticle, I think I will like this reticle. Does anyone know if there is a ceracote color. That will match the razor' color? It really helps to have all this experience and knowlage that this forum has to offer, when trying to make expensive decisions. Thanks to everyone.

 

[Outdoorsman9]

Re: New Razor HD or used USO or NF?

According to Vortex the Razor is Stealth Shadow Black