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Rifle Scopes New Razor????
- Thread starter Tigerfan601
- Start date
I think someone said it would be ideal and then he ran with it. I haven't heard this yet.
Thing is wasn't there already a 7D that limited run of 3-15x44 PST Gen IIs at Midway. It was an EBR7C just without an open center.
That was probably also me, I have no idea but they should, ill also accept a 3.3-20.
A little more magnification that a 3-18 with a good FOV will be perfect.
Given that Vortex has the 4.5-22x50 HD-LHT for the applications where light weight is important, I do not know if I would necessarily be in a rush to develop a lighter weight Gen3, if I were Vortex.
This new 6-36x56, by all accounts, should make a splash and I suspect that they will be pretty busy just manufacturing it.
There are other designs that I think should take precedence over a smaller Gen 3.
ILya
It'll be interesting to see if Vortex do a lower magnifcation Gen 3, I get the feeling they wont.
I know I go on and on about this but there is definitely a market for a 3-20x50sih scope that's aimed at the cross over market, I don't think that the LHT does this as 4.5x on the low end is a bit high. Basically a lower weight and cost ZCO 420 or SB 3/5-20
I went over my thoughts in post #43.
Hopefully the new XTR3 model will fill this role as I don't think Vortex is going to fill it.
Spoken like someone who knows the code name for it and it's design intent.
It's BDC, for 6BR in MOA. Admit it. With hollow mildots for windage.
Confess
My follow-up question would be: why? I completely understand that it is done, I'm just left wondering what would lead to that decision unless it's sponsorship or contract-based. There's enough money in those rifles there's no reason they're not topped with different glass, especially if you're going to take the weight hit. Razors hit a good price/performance balance, but the weight is an awful tradeoff for something that's actually going to be carried for miles on end; I'm surprised people aren't optimizing that out. To each their own! Great scopes, just not the tradeoff I'd personally like. Hopefully the new offering trims some oz, then they'd have something. That and different color options.
Now we're talking!
I personally use ZCO. But to answer your “why” I would challenge anyone to find a more tested and durable optic than the gen 2 razor.
Yes, Vortex makes some not so great cheaper optics. But that ain’t one.
It’s won more matches and been beat on in most any condition you can imagine. In competition and in field scenarios.
For the amount of them fielded, the returns are extremely low. Everyone knows someone that returned one because the amount of them out there is staggering when compared to similar optics.
So, the real question is “why not?”
Blast from the past! What's up stranger?I'm gonna bet on the latter
Lighter and still complaints. LOL Any complaints that it's too high a power ratio or too low of a parallax adjustment or too much elevation.
^No, just the weight and maybe still the glass/price ratio. It's still half a pound heavier than a ZCO, and a pound heavier than the ~2K class, which has had better glass than the Gen2 for a couple of years now. If there's true alpha glass in this one, and it's at least 1K cheaper than a ZCO, I'm interested. Otherwise, the value equation isn't there IMHO.
Lots of weight complaints about the Razor II, which is heavier, back when it came out about 7 years ago but it became one of the most highly used optics in matches. This is lighter, with better glass and once they get in hands I am sure the public will be more than happy with the package. Is it for backwoods hunters humping mountains? Nope that's what the LHT 4.5-22 is for but for match shooters and recreational shooters who want a scope with a large power range, low parallax especially for rimfire, and a ton of elevation and don't want to spend $4000 on a ZCO then it will have a good spot in the optics market.
I can't wait to get my hands on one and do some comparisons. @DownhillFromHere has a ZCO and some other high end optics we can set them side by side and he can give you his opinion as he has no connection to any company. I only have word of mouth from people I trust so far but it all sounds real good.
I mean there hasn’t been confirmation on it’s weight other than speculation. If it is only a 3oz reduction it’s a little underwhelming, doesn’t make me any less excited and doesn’t change much as I’m not really considering it for a hunting rig. The reticle and mag range is what I’m most interested in. Especially the former. If the reticle is something akin to a Mil-XT I’ll likely jump on one.
Spent the better half of the last 4 years chasing good glass and while there is something to be said about tier 1 glass. I’m finding practically on many accounts i wish my ZP5 had the Mil-XT in it.
So are we confirming 6x erector 6-36 mag range??? @Rob01 @koshkin
Spent the better half of the last 4 years chasing good glass and while there is something to be said about tier 1 glass. I’m finding practically on many accounts i wish my ZP5 had the Mil-XT in it.
So are we confirming 6x erector 6-36 mag range??? @Rob01 @koshkin
Slight thread creep, sorry.
I've owned/used nearly all "tier-one" scopes. I'm gradually transitioning most to the ZP5. For my use, I actually prefer the MR4 over most reticles. When people ask about my ZCO, I tell them it's a fantastic scope - but I'll eventually have two more ZP5's for about the same price.
It is long scope though, if that matters.
I'm holding out for the next AMG to be something like a 3.3-20, I would not expect that to come from the "Gen III" series Razor's as they have never focused on weight savings
If these specs are correct, then Vortex is keeping the 6x erector ratio but increasing magnification which the industry seems to be gravitating toward (though I think unnecessarily so, most likely due to the success of the NF 7-35). Surprisingly this scope is longer than the 4.5-27 but also has wider FOV. My understanding of optical formula's would show that longer scopes tend to be more forgiving in the DOF and parallax forgiveness department which will definitely be a plus. Like others have mentioned above, the Gen II series was not designed for humping around in the mountains, it is a competition scope - if you want lighter weight then the AMG and Razor LHT are viable alternatives. Parallax down to 10 yards now opening up doors for rimfire applications. I do get a chuckle at the marketing on this with the comment "it's well thought-out design is so perfect it is almost scary!" but I'll reserve judgement until I can get my hands on one and see how it compares to my XTR III 5.5-30x56 and March 5-40x56 Gen II. Next question will be how much and how long - given the surprising price of the Gen III 1-10 (lower than most expected) I'm going to go out on a limb and guesstimate this 6-36 will be lower than some expect as Vortex has traditionally pushed the price/performance barrier, but I could be wrong - when the 4.5-27 was released I remember backorders for well over a year. I'm sure Scott @LibertyOptics phone has been blowing up of late - if you want Vortex he's the guy!
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I totally get that the ZP5 can be had for half the price and gives you similar performance. It’s one of the best optics IQ wise out there, how the resale is so low is beyond me.
I really like the Mil-XT for its differentiation of the 2/10th subtensions. The opposite direction for those little hashes just really works with my mind when quickly using the reticle for hold overs. That’s why I’m eager to see the Gen IIIs reticle. The scope itself looks downright gorgeous as of right now.
I agree. Maybe it’s just me and i get the argument to “to have it and not need it rather than need it and not have it.” I think a lot of the magnification is sort of useless. I don’t see how it’s going to help when it amplifies the mirage. I could be wrong though I’ve never used a 7-35.
They shot themselves in the foot with the cross promotion they did - buy a 500 dollar rifle and get a 50% off cert for Minox. $1700 ZP5's.
IMHO, from a "if it ain't broke.." point of view, if those specs @RFM posted are legit, combined with seeing pics of them being put through their paces and run in the AG Cup and Hat Creek, I'm looking forward to trying one.
To me it's awesome that the Razor's are pigs and people beat on them. That's a big part of why I have one on my rifle even though I can afford a TT/ZCO or anything else.
To me it's awesome that the Razor's are pigs and people beat on them. That's a big part of why I have one on my rifle even though I can afford a TT/ZCO or anything else.
I'm excited to put my hands on one, glad all the specs are out there now. I run my scopes at higher and higher magnification the older i get, lol.
I'm totally on your side when it comes to weight in this category and all the complaints by people when they can just pick a different scope instead of what undoubtedly will be a fantastic scope.
HOWEVER, in their defense - when you guys were saying just wait, it would be lighter, etc - I didnt think you meant 3.5 oz on a 48.5 oz scope... I get thats ~7%... but it doesnt seem like that much.
I don't disagree that this is more the realm of the AMG, but Vortex did make the 1-10 very lightweight and it was something they focused on, so it's not like all Razor scopes have to be heavy.
Interested to see if they do a lower magnification version or not.
Interesting to not that the last 5 scopes Vortex has launched have all been stand alone rifle scopes and not part of a range like we typically would see.
Any idea how much better glass?
I went from a Razor to a ZCO but this may be the perfect "cheaper" rimfire scope at half the price of another ZCO.
People complaing about weight don't actually shoot. Or just looking for a reason to bitch while spending hundreds of dollars to add weights to their rifle.
As much as I love my ZCO MPCT3, I would love to have a MR4 in it. Its the PERFECT reticle.
I hope this new vortex comes with XLR-2 style reticle instead of another super busy EBR-7 which has a bunch of useless shit no one actually uses.
A nice clean tree reticle with .2 hashes for holds to easily spot trace and ID targets is important.
As Henry Ford said "You can get it in any color as long as it's dark flat bronze". LOL I wouldn't expect black right out of the gate but who knows.
I have heard right up near the tier one scopes but we will have to wait and see. I am interested myself.
Who gives a shit what color it comes it. That is the absolute dumbest reason to bitch.
Buy a can of kyrlon if you care that much about your scope matching your heels and panties.
Buy a can of kyrlon if you care that much about your scope matching your heels and panties.
This might be a real nice optic for rimfire with a 10 yard parallax and lots of magnification. Looking forward to reading the reviews from our resident optics gurus.
Why do you care so much that people want different color options? Should everyone buy shit brown cars and paint them with krylon too? I don't understand why everyone is so worked up that people might want other things than them. Just because you don't care doesn't mean other people don't have perfectly legitimate reasons for wanting what they do, colors and weight included.
It's hard for a manufacturer to get real feedback on their products on forums like this if they have a brigade of fanboys who dogpile on anyone who voices a dissenting opinion from theirs. Discussion and discourse are one thing, bitching about someone wanting a different color is every bit (if not more so) as whiny as someone asking about a different color...
Because low IQ people and those who don't actually shoot have been bitching about the color of the razor for almost a decade.
Its a stupid argument and its annoying listing to the same dumb complaints year in and year out from those who are more concerned with all their shit matching up so they can impress other non shooters in instagram or what ever instead of actually going out and shooting.
No color is going to match every gun. Many of these colors were speced because black is one of the worst colors in camouflage. That's why we have FDE and other shit standard, so they can go onto work guns without being painted first. They also don't bake in the sun the same way black does, helping them stay cooler to the touch.
If you hate the color that much, Dont Buy one.......Or Paint it........Or Cerekote it...........Or wrap it. You have a million options to get it to match your purse.
Or you could just go out and shoot, put some scratches on it and stop being a bitch about it.
This is a new thread for a scope that hasn't been released yet and what you are concerned with is the Color? Get real.
The pot calling the kettle black.
Trust me, it's equally annoying to see keyboard warriors defending a product they have no stake in. I think we can all agree black isn't the best color for desert warfare. I don't think that someone's desire for a color has to be relegated to the best color for camoflage, as that will obviously differ based on environment. My guess is Vortex sticks with the color since it's easily identifiable as a Vortex on the firing line, and that helps them with marketing.Vortex is a business, they can make business decisions based on their data and feedback, not solely your (nor my) opinion. If you've seen people talk about the color for almost a decade, then that should say something to you. How you arrive at low IQ/don't shoot/etc, I will never know; you seem to be an expert at mental gymnastics. I'll bounce out of the thread, I'm going down rabbit holes and never intended to derail the conversation.
I'm sure this will be an awesome scope for those whom the specifications fit their needs! If they even get near ZCO/TT/Minox optical quality with this at the price point they are likely to hit, a lot of PRS folks will jump all over it and have a great optic with one heck of a value proposition.
I really like the color. Not really sure what is so bad about it compared to black. Quite frankly, it’s my personal opinion that black has no place on a field rifle and gear. But of course I live in the semi arid west, 7200 feet closer to the sun.
That said, there is no accounting for taste and folks differ that way…..
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My intent was definitely not to stir pot, whoops. I just prefer black scopes, no real rhyme or reason. I don’t see a negative, from a consumer standpoint, of having options though. For whatever it’s worth, I shoot my black optics and “pretty” guns fairly often and have done well. Maybe I’m an anomaly.
I used to like the Razor color years back as I could find my rifle real easy at a match. Now it's more of a chore. LOL
Any idea when these are expected to hit the street Rob?
I need to pick a new rimfire optic in the next month or two and this one seems like it may be serious competitor to the others I am looking at (Leica/Ziess/ATACR735)
I need to pick a new rimfire optic in the next month or two and this one seems like it may be serious competitor to the others I am looking at (Leica/Ziess/ATACR735)
The color is not enough to sway me away from getting one if its all i hope it will be, but hope they do black too. Im pretty sure its widely accepted diff colors on guns and gun parts is a thing. Why would Cerakote bother, or AI, or MDT or Cadex....or...Schmidt and Bender ,,,
Most likely in that time frame as we are heading into the beginning of the year when things drop. I am hoping sooner than later.
I've got a Razor HD II ordered from Scott/Liberty Optics, but am still waiting for it to arrive. I'm very amused in this Razor 'weight' issue: how is 8-10 oz's an issue on a 21+ lbs PRS rig? I've had several friends spend $600 on a light weight hunting stock when they have a 30 lbs tire around their middle. Hilarious! Seems some folks just have to bitch about something.
A lighter scope makes balancing the gun easier with a rear heavy gun like a AXSA when using a heavy/long barrel.
That’s my reason at least. Tuning the gun with weights is much easier then than offseting a heavy optic then tuning imo
Because not everyone is wanting to run a 21lb rifle.....
Having a 45lb+ scope basically limits the potential use of the scope to PRS/Target shooting.
Having more options available is seldom a bad thing.
