Rifle Scopes New Razor????

[supercorndogs]

Its funny when testing scopes, I have never noticed much difference in rifle balance going from a "light scope" to a "heavy scope." 27 ounce scope, to a 40 ounce scope., 13 ounces, or less than a pound total weight, centered mostly over the action very close to the balance point, with the second largest distribution in front of the mag well, where the objective lens and housing live. So what have we actually added behind our balance point. 9 ounces? As long s the razor is I would guess around 50% of the weight is behind the balance point.

Man, my rifle gets all off balance from a full ten round mag to an empty one. Does anyone have small weights so I can add the weight from each round back to my gun as I fire. THE BALANCE MAN< THE BALANCE>!!!!!!

I have a 30" full profile barrel rifle. I wish they would make this scope 8lbs so it would balance my rifle out for me. Its kind of nose heavy when shooting it offhand with these damn light 40oz scopes. Why aren't these manufactures catering to the specific needs for balancing my rifle when they design a scope. ITs bullshits I tells ya.

The LH 2-10 is great hunting scope, but not for them ombre's who recon they need them tactical turrets on their Fudd'n guns.

 

[Tritiumdials]

I just want to know the price when it hits ExpertVoice.

 

[Rob01]

Its funny when testing scopes, I have never noticed much difference in rifle balance going from a "light scope" to a "heavy scope." 27 ounce scope, to a 40 ounce scope., 13 ounces, or less than a pound total weight, centered mostly over the action very close to the balance point, with the second largest distribution in front of the mag well, where the objective lens and housing live. So what have we actually added behind our balance point. 9 ounces? As long s the razor is I would guess around 50% of the weight is behind the balance point.

Man, my rifle gets all off balance from a full ten round mag to an empty one. Does anyone have small weights so I can add the weight from each round back to my gun as I fire. THE BALANCE MAN< THE BALANCE>!!!!!!

I have a 30" full profile barrel rifle. I wish they would make this scope 8lbs so it would balance my rifle out for me. Its kind of nose heavy when shooting it offhand with these damn light 40oz scopes. Why aren't these manufactures catering to the specific needs for balancing my rifle when they design a scope. ITs bullshits I tells ya.

The LH 2-10 is great hunting scope, but not for them ombre's who recon they need them tactical turrets on their Fudd'n guns.

Awesome. Exactly. I have moved my AMG to a rifle and swapped to a Razor II and felt no difference. Same with going from a 35 ounce scope to a 48.5 ounce scope. But then again my rifles aren't 20+ pound behemoths. I think people get way to hung up on this new balance requirement that's come up over the past couple years and thinking it has to be perfectly balanced to shoot well off anything. Man those killer 8-10 ounces in the scope is why I missed those targets said no one ever. LOL

 

[supercorndogs]

Mine aren't really too heavy either, probably my heaviest is 15 pounds. 700 with a 23 inch Kreiger Remington varmint profile in a Manners T6. It has worn many stocks and scopes over the years. IT flat out shoots with all combos tried.

 

[srt-4_uk]

I just want to know the price when it hits ExpertVoice.

Whatever the price is, it's cheaper from Liberty Optics.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Lots of weight complaints about the Razor II, which is heavier, back when it came out about 7 years ago but it became one of the most highly used optics in matches. This is lighter, with better glass and once they get in hands I am sure the public will be more than happy with the package. Is it for backwoods hunters humping mountains? Nope that's what the LHT 4.5-22 is for but for match shooters and recreational shooters who want a scope with a large power range, low parallax especially for rimfire, and a ton of elevation and don't want to spend $4000 on a ZCO then it will have a good spot in the optics market.

This thing sounds awesome to me! Can't wait. Once I see some folks compare the glass and get a good idea of what the glass is like, I will be a buyer. It's exactly what I've been looking for and won't cost what a March does, which is the only thing that compares to it from what I understand.

 

[drglock]

Dang 45oz, I might have to add external weights.

 

[Feniks Technologies]

Any drawings of the new reticle floating around yet?

 

[jakelly]

Who gives a shit what color it comes it. That is the absolute dumbest reason to bitch.

Buy a can of kyrlon if you care that much about your scope matching your heels and panties.

Vortex and their Tactical Rose Gold.

 

[WhiteDingo]

Any drawings of the new reticle floating around yet?

This was shared with me.

 

[beetroot]

So they've finally put .2mil hashes down the vertical stadia.
Much prefer only the main cross being illuminated.

 

[Mr. F]

I think Vortex will sell a metric shit ton of these. The .2 vertical hash is all the gen 2 was missing.

I get that we beat this already but some of the responses from what i think are experienced shooters above makes no sense to me. This aint a rant but AI or not, really, BALANCE, is that just an afterthought when it comes to the weight of the scope?

Primer seating depths, annealing processes for brass, + - 5% bullet weight sorting, mass transfer analysis worthy equipment to measure kernels of extruded powder down to fractions of a grain, seating sensors to QC seating depth, mass dampening devices or “harmonic tuning devices” also referred to seismic dampners…otherwise know as “barrel tuners” to get perfect bullet composition… the list goes on and on.

Left hand gain twist…tunable gas port muzzle breaks… can be here all night.

All to get a point of from hitting a plate of steel either smack on the center or on its edge…it really doesn’t matter, a hit is a hit and that’s a point (or two depending on the game)

So why we are shooting down the notion that balance has a measurable impact on performance as much or more of the things i listed above?

You could argue that any or all of them if done right will increase your shot hit probability to an extent….no ones argues that.

But fuck balance? So i guess fuck weights too?

Just an interesting topic to me…and im algo waiting on the smoker to hit temp so…

 

[sleeplz]

I think Vortex will sell a metric shit ton of these. The .2 vertical hash is all the gen 2 was missing.

I get that we beat this already but some of the responses from what i think are experienced shooters above makes no sense to me. This aint a rant but AI or not, really, BALANCE, is that just an afterthought when it comes to the weight of the scope?

Primer seating depths, annealing processes for brass, + - 5% bullet weight sorting, mass transfer analysis worthy equipment to measure kernels of extruded powder down to fractions of a grain, seating sensors to QC seating depth, mass dampening devices or “harmonic tuning devices” also referred to seismic dampners…otherwise know as “barrel tuners” to get perfect bullet composition… the list goes on and on.

Left hand gain twist…tunable gas port muzzle breaks… can be here all night.

All to get a point of from hitting a plate of steel either smack on the center or on its edge…it really doesn’t matter, a hit is a hit and that’s a point (or two depending on the game)

So why we are shooting down the notion that balance has a measurable impact on performance as much or more of the things i listed above?

You could argue that any or all of them if done right will increase your shot hit probability to an extent….no ones argues that.

But fuck balance? So i guess fuck weights too?

Just an interesting topic to me…and im algo waiting on the smoker to hit temp so…

Not so much fuck balance. It’s that the scope location and weight difference in scopes make it tend to not matter. Especially when you can add weights. There’s a 15 year old girl running the gen 2 and winning matches but the scope is too heavy for some men….

 

[Feniks Technologies]

Any chance they have a non tree reticle option? Or is that just wishful thinking….

 

[beetroot]

Not so much fuck balance. It’s that the scope location and weight difference in scopes make it tend to not matter. Especially when you can add weights. There’s a 15 year old girl running the gen 2 and winning matches but the scope is too heavy for some men….

Is she running one on her hunting rifle too or just her barricade benchrest rifle?

 

[sleeplz]

Is she running one on her hunting rifle too or just her barricade benchrest rifle?

This is America, so whichever one she wants.

 

[Mr. F]

Not so much fuck balance. It’s that the scope location and weight difference in scopes make it tend to not matter. Especially when you can add weights. There’s a 15 year old girl running the gen 2 and winning matches but the scope is too heavy for some men….

Lol fuck, did you even read my post

 

[beetroot]

This is America, so whichever one she wants.

To right! Sing it loud cow boy

 

[dirtytough]

My brother got one last week I believe. His is 45.40 oz.

 

[5RWill]

My brother got one last week I believe. His is 45.40 oz.

Damnit man, pics! Tell him to send you pics!

 

[dirtytough]

Damnit man, pics! Tell him to send you pics!

He did lol. I agree with previous posts about the color.

I’m not a competition shooter so I wasn’t that interested in it. A little heavy for what I do. I will get to try it out the second week of January.

 

[5RWill]

He did lol. I agree with previous posts about the color.

I’m not a competition shooter so I wasn’t that interested in it. A little heavy for what I do. I will get to try it out the second week of January.

Will you share them please? Maybe a video of the turret? I'm not worried about the color or weight, that much seems to be set in stone. I always liked the Gen II color anyway. I do wish it was sub 40oz but that horse has been beaten to death. For it's purpose it doesn't matter. I want to see the rest of the scope though. Turrets are locking? How many Mils per rev?

Or is he under NDA?

 

[dirtytough]

I called him earlier about loading for an AR and he was busy with cleaning up Xmas stuff.

If there isn’t an NDA I’ll pass on the info.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

Retro turrets look like Gen 1 almost as tall

i was thinking the excat thing

 

[koshkin]

Until Vortex officially releases it, it would be quite impolite on my part to be posting pictures.
I think the scope will do well. I'll have a some impressions ready to go when Vortex says it is OK to release information.

ILya

 

[Eric32]

Also throw in a comparision with the M7Xi, if you don't mind.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Until Vortex officially releases it, it would be quite impolite on my part to be posting pictures.
I think the scope will do well. I'll have a some impressions ready to go when Vortex says it is OK to release information.

ILya

Compare it to the best, no reason not to. It may be less money than a zco or TT but that's what everyone will compare it to because that's the best available.

When Vortex gives you the go ahead of course. Love your reviews, and your opinions carry the most weight of anyone, by far.

 

[koshkin]

Also throw in a comparision with the M7Xi, if you don't mind.

I do not have a 4-28x56 M7Xi on hand. I do have a 2.9-20x50 that I rather like, but that is a different objective size.

ILya

 

[koshkin]

Compare it to the best, no reason not to. It may be less money than a zco or TT but that's what everyone will compare it to because that's the best available.

When Vortex gives you the go ahead of course. Love your reviews, and your opinions carry the most weight of anyone, by far.

I have a TT 5-25x56 and March 5-42x56 on hand which should give me a reasonable idea on how it compares to the really fancy stuff.

As far as other 56mm scopes go, I have Sightron SVIII 5-40x56 and Delta Stryker 4.5-30x56.

That should give me a pretty good idea of where the performance of the Gen3 falls compared to the market.

I do not think I have any other relevant 56mm scopes here, but I'll check.

ILya

 

[sleeplz]

I have a TT 5-25x56 and March 5-42x56 on hand which should give me a reasonable idea on how it compares to the really fancy stuff.

As far as other 56mm scopes go, I have Sightron SVIII 5-40x56 and Delta Stryker 4.5-30x56.

That should give me a pretty good idea of where the performance of the Gen3 falls compared to the market.

I do not think I have any other relevant 56mm scopes here, but I'll check.

ILya

Do you have reviews of the March vs TT anywhere?

 

[akmike47]

Hell I just wish I could afford a Gen 2.

This suckers going to be cool though.

 

[koshkin]

Do you have reviews of the March vs TT anywhere?

I have TT in a couple of different High End Tactical articles. I do not have a direct TT vs March yet, but it is coming. I have been messing with full production March 5-42x56 for a little while now and when I publish a full review, it will include a comparison to TT.

ILya

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I have TT in a couple of different High End Tactical articles. I do not have a direct TT vs March yet, but it is coming. I have been messing with full production March 5-42x56 for a little while now and when I publish a full review, it will include a comparison to TT.

ILya

That's the one I've had my eye on. That High master system seems pretty dang good and that's a mag range that can allow for anything you'd ever want to do with it.

 

[Scott Parks]

Any idea when these are expected to hit the street Rob?

I need to pick a new rimfire optic in the next month or two and this one seems like it may be serious competitor to the others I am looking at (Leica/Ziess/ATACR735)

They will be available at dealers as soon as we announce them in January.

 

[sleeplz]

They will be available at dealers as soon as we announce them in January.

Please don’t Burris us. Is there a regular crosshair reticle available?

 

[Mormegil87]

I'm really looking forward to seeing these in person. The posted screen shots of the specs has me intrigued. I've even held off on snagging another Mk5 just to see how this shakes out.

I seldom agree with @DeathBeforeDismount . I really don't care what color it is as long as it checks the boxes for the features I'm looking at. If I hate it that much, I'll wrap it or cerakote it.

 

[Safety_3rd]

Is it January yet?

 

[anginaprinzmetal]

I know this has been asked before but any one has any idea on MSRP?

 

[LV Precision]

I know this has been asked before but any one has any idea on MSRP?

I’m betting on MSRP $3600-3800, street price of $2800.

 

[JaoeyP]

I know this has been asked before but any one has any idea on MSRP?

We don't know. There's only been speculation.

 

[Draftpick]

I’m betting on MSRP $3600-3800, street price of $2800.

That would be a big gap and hard to compete against the new Bushnell, Burris. IMHO vortex has been the one that has given the consumer a lot for there money has been what made them popular. At some point price becomes a small diminishing return. The new Bushnell would be $1000 cheaper with your street price. That is a big gap the market has become more competitive, again IMHO that is going to turn away customers when they can get close for $1000 less. I want a 35x ish power scope and love vortex, have a Gen2 razor and Razor AMG, if the new Gen 3 razor is $2800 I will definitely give the Bushnell a look!

 

[Mormegil87]

If it's $2800, it barely covers 2% per year inflation of the original street price of a Gen 2 Razor. That's not even counting the added features.

 

[beetroot]

That would be a big gap and hard to compete against the new Bushnell, Burris. IMHO vortex has been the one that has given the consumer a lot for there money has been what made them popular. At some point price becomes a small diminishing return. The new Bushnell would be $1000 cheaper with your street price. That is a big gap the market has become more competitive, again IMHO that is going to turn away customers when they can get close for $1000 less. I want a 35x ish power scope and love vortex, have a Gen2 razor and Razor AMG, if the new Gen 3 razor is $2800 I will definitely give the Bushnell a look!

It is a big gap over the Burris and Bushnell but if it has glass and features that compete with ZCO then it'll be a bargain.

It could either be a replacement for the Gen2 Razor which when launched was $2500 or it could be like the Burris XTR3 and be offered along side the Gen2 Razor as a more expensive but better performing scope.

What ever path Vortex takes with it I'm sure they have done their research and will price it accordingly.

 

[Draftpick]

If it's $2800, it barely covers 2% per year inflation of the original street price of a Gen 2 Razor. That's not even counting the added features.

Hopefully as the saying goes hopefully the juice is worth the squeeze! When the Gen2 razor came out it beat everyone on price and performance!! Bushnell and Burris have stepped up and want to compete. Vortex won’t be able to do both this time

 

[Glassaholic]

That would be a big gap and hard to compete against the new Bushnell, Burris.

I don’t see the Bushnell as a competitor for two reasons - narrow FOV and no illumination. The Bushnell XRS3 is priced accordingly given these limitations. Burris XTR III also no illumination, I have high hopes for Burris in 2022, but we have to wait and see, hopefully not too long. So while the Gen III specs (if accurate) match the same 6-36x56 design of the Bushnell I will go out on a limb and say they are two very different designs.

 

[Draftpick]

I don’t see the Bushnell as a competitor for two reasons - narrow FOV and no illumination. The Bushnell XRS3 is priced accordingly given these limitations. Burris XTR III also no illumination, I have high hopes for Burris in 2022, but we have to wait and see, hopefully not too long. So while the Gen III specs (if accurate) match the same 6-36x56 design of the Bushnell I will go out on a limb and say they are two very different designs.

Not everyone cares about FOV. I would bet 98% don’t even know the specs, they look at magnification and weight and price. Competition shooters look at that, but most others don’t. When I go to a range and shoot, they rattle of weight and magnification and what they bought it for etc. Personally I would save a few hundred for no illumination, it’s nice but I don’t use enough for it to be a make or brake. Like I said it more competitive this time around. Had vortex come out sooner and beat Bushnell and them to the market then yes I could see $2800, they are late!! The Gen3 1-10 delivered on price and performance, I don’t know of a 1-10 with that quality of glass and price. The New razor will have better glass they say and some upgrades but they have competition in the same mag range with Japanese glass that will put them all in the same discussion for $1000 less. For people that compete yes it’s the right tool for the job, others that want a good scope with high magnification will weigh the pro’s and con’s are going to look at the big $$$ difference and say I can live with a smaller FOV, with the Gen2 they got both price and performance and sold a ton to everyone comp shooters and enthusiasts. This time the market share will be smaller/niche if they have a $2800 street.

 

[beetroot]

Not everyone cares about FOV. I would bet 98% don’t even know the specs, they look at magnification and weight and price. Competition shooters look at that, but most others don’t. When I go to a range and shoot, they rattle of weight and magnification and what they bought it for etc. Personally I would save a few hundred for no illumination, it’s nice but I don’t use enough for it to be a make or brake. Like I said it more competitive this time around. Had vortex come out sooner and beat Bushnell and them to the market then yes I could see $2800, they are late!! The Gen3 1-10 delivered on price and performance, I don’t know of a 1-10 with that quality of glass and price. The New razor will have better glass they say and some upgrades but they have competition in the same mag range with Japanese glass that will put them all in the same discussion for $1000 less. For people that compete yes it’s the right tool for the job, others that want a good scope with high magnification will weigh the pro’s and con’s are going to look at the big $$$ difference and say I can live with a smaller FOV, with the Gen2 they got both price and performance and sold a ton to everyone comp shooters and enthusiasts. This time the market share will be smaller/niche if they have a $2800 street.

You are right about people not caring about FOV.

Bet they are the same uneducated plebs that voted democrat...

 

[superde]

It sounds like this scope is going into the top tier category with the features and glass it will have, but I may be wrong...

 

[srt-4_uk]

Seeing as how the G2 Razor is about to see a price hike, it's a safe assumption that G3 is going to be in the mid-high $2k price range. Again, Vortex kept the G2 LVPO an prices the G3 above it vs replacing it. The G3 doesn't need to compete with Burris and Bushnell, the G2 already does that.

Optics - "Liberty Optics and Snipers Hide, Always a Great Match"

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www.snipershide.com

 

[Thorbeast]

Looks like MSRP is going to be $2,999.99. The link is dead, but it's clearly on sportsman's website waiting to go live.