Same. The DTII+ turrets are fantastic and the 5-20x US is far and away my favorite optic these days - just so versatile.I don't think I will ever part with my dtii+ 520us scopes.
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Same. The DTII+ turrets are fantastic and the 5-20x US is far and away my favorite optic these days - just so versatile.I don't think I will ever part with my dtii+ 520us scopes.
The target 1 is only available in the EU. No plans for a US launch anytime soon according to CStactical and gebhardt. I do agree with the dtii+ turrets, they are something special.Sb has some things still going for it as stated above. I know this is the 636 thread and I could care less for a 6x36 honestly but the 520us is still unbeatable in it's overall package as is the 320us. The zco 420 comes close... the turrets are meh but the reticles are useable. Zcos new target 1 reticle looks aight but guess they are only putting in the 527 for now.
The SB 525 is still great below 3k with dtii+ turrets if you like one of the wide selection of reticles that are out there.
Does anyone even offer more reticles than SB?
I don't think I will ever part with my dtii+ 520us scopes. They are bad ass little scopes and I don't think I would own anything but ultra shorts if I can keep finding them around 3k with dtii turrets. The 320us is probably the best alpha scope behind a nvg or thermal right now.
FYI, Tangent epoxies the reticles into the scope.This TBH. Not to mention with the other alpha brands you cant send it back to get a reticle swap (maybe ZCO can idk). Tangent flat out said no when I asked them about reticle swaps
While I tend to agree with you the geniii is a good scope but not everyone runs prs comps. For a lot of field use where you actually carry the gun anywhere, the 52-55 odd ozs with the mount. Makes the scope a total paperweight for someDude we have ran them side by side in practice and at matches. Shits not secret.
The gen 3 razor hands down has better glass than any 5-25 I have looked throught. I have ran my zcos side by side with another members here 2 5-25 and it wasn't even close.
Same with the 7-35 and minox which probally is only second to TT in actually IQ.
Their time has passed, it's not 2008 anymore. Everything I have heard is the 6-36 has similar glass to the 5-25. This is khales 525 all over again if that's the case.
S&B reticles do not hold a candle to what the competition is offering and one of main reasons you hardly see them on match rifles anymore.
You probably didn't set the Schmidt up correctly.Dude we have ran them side by side in practice and at matches. Shits not secret.
The gen 3 razor hands down has better glass than any 5-25 I have looked throught. I have ran my zcos side by side with another members here 2 5-25 and it wasn't even close.
Same with the 7-35 and minox which probally is only second to TT in actually IQ.
Their time has passed, it's not 2008 anymore. Everything I have heard is the 6-36 has similar glass to the 5-25. This is khales 525 all over again if that's the case.
S&B reticles do not hold a candle to what the competition is offering and one of main reasons you hardly see them on match rifles anymore.
Did I miss a memo somewhere, what is this target 1 reticle?The target 1 is only available in the EU. No plans for a US launch anytime soon according to CStactical and gebhardt. I do agree with the dtii+ turrets, they are something special.
LOL, not even close.You probably didn't set the Schmidt up correctly.
I can make any scope like like shit when someone first puts their eye to it.
KLOL, not even close.
The side by side comparison was with one of the best PRS shooters in the region and a member here. Its hilarious the blind defense some of you throw like Ze German Engineering is infallible and perfect. Sorry your S&B is not cool or special anymore. You should have bought one when they were if you care about such things.
You going to be a frontline Fury this weekend in NC? How about I bring 2 of my ZCO and you bring your S&B(s) and we can do the Pepsi challenge. I am sure we can find a Gen 3 razor and 7-35 ATACR to join in the fun.
Ah, thank you Secant. So basically it's ZCO's version of the March FML-3 designed by ILya. Not to derail the Schmidt thread but what's the fascination with Europeans and squares around the center cross?
They could have done away with the tactical vulva. Owning a 3 and 3x, its really gets in the way of spotting trace.
I've looked through all of those scopes with the diopter setup. I still picked an S&B because the glass on ZCO isnt a 1000 dollars better and the glass on TT is DEFINITELY not 2000 dollars better.You going to be a frontline Fury this weekend in NC? How about I bring 2 of my ZCO and you bring your S&B(s) and we can do the Pepsi challenge. I am sure we can find a Gen 3 razor and 7-35 ATACR to join in the fun.
It looks more like their copy of Schmidt’s LRR-MIL reticle.Ah, thank you Secant. So basically it's ZCO's version of the March FML-3 designed by ILya. Not to derail the Schmidt thread but what's the fascination with Europeans and squares around the center cross?
View attachment 8080259
Even better, I had the LRR-Mil in my 5-45 Schmidt I had a few years ago, I did not like that reticle as I felt it was way too thin.
Yeah not only that, but LRR-Mil negates the reticle swap options that schmidt offers because of the different illumination tech they use for it.Even better, I had the LRR-Mil in my 5-45 Schmidt I had a few years ago, I did not like that reticle as I felt it was way too thin.
But no actual test equipment?LOL, not even close.
The side by side comparison was with one of the best PRS shooters in the region and a member here. Its hilarious the blind defense some of you throw like Ze German Engineering is infallible and perfect. Sorry your S&B is not cool or special anymore. You should have bought one when they were if you care about such things.
no one tell him that ZCO components are made in Austria and then shipped here lolBut no actual test equipment?
You don't need test equipment to see the difference in finding hidden shot up targets in heavy timber with overcast. These are the types of areas where the Alpha and Beta scopes really separate themselves.But no actual test equipment?
Who told you the secret?no one tell him that ZCO components are made in Austria and then shipped here lol
Sounds like you're blaming your equipment for a personal skill issue.You don't need test equipment to see the difference in finding hidden shot up targets in heavy timber with overcast. These are the types of areas where the Alpha and Beta scopes really separate themselves.
Shoot a 10 round stage with one gun, and then the other, Just finding the targets with the S&B was hard enough. Actually resolving the target for your hold and shot was also significantly more difficult. Half a dozen or more people on this site know exactly where and what I am talking about with these targets at this location.
In bright perfect conditions, yea the S&B is great, But as the conditions worse, the mirage picks up, the delta between them and the current alphas starts to widen. Thats not even getting into reticle differences, which is more of a personal preference anyway.
These things are completely quantifiable. They don't need to be presented in the subjective manner you're presenting them in, and the fact of the matter is, the people with the equipment who have done the quantifiable tests disagree with your subjective opinion.You don't need test equipment to see the difference in finding hidden shot up targets in heavy timber with overcast. These are the types of areas where the Alpha and Beta scopes really separate themselves.
Shoot a 10 round stage with one gun, and then the other, Just finding the targets with the S&B was hard enough. Actually resolving the target for your hold and shot was also significantly more difficult. Half a dozen or more people on this site know exactly where and what I am talking about with these targets at this location.
In bright perfect conditions, yea the S&B is great, But as the conditions worse, the mirage picks up, the delta between them and the current alphas starts to widen. Thats not even getting into reticle differences, which is more of a personal preference anyway.
The people who have done the tests consistently have the PMII close behind the top two. You are coping hard rnThese things are completely quantifiable. They don't need to be presented in the subjective manner you're presenting them in, and the fact of the matter is, the people with the equipment who have done the quantifiable tests disagree with your subjective opinion.
You don't need test equipment to see the difference in finding hidden shot up targets in heavy timber with overcast. These are the types of areas where the Alpha and Beta scopes really separate themselves.
Shoot a 10 round stage with one gun, and then the other, Just finding the targets with the S&B was hard enough. Actually resolving the target for your hold and shot was also significantly more difficult. Half a dozen or more people on this site know exactly where and what I am talking about with these targets at this location.
In bright perfect conditions, yea the S&B is great, But as the conditions worse, the mirage picks up, the delta between them and the current alphas starts to widen. Thats not even getting into reticle differences, which is more of a personal preference anyway.
Oh i know.... I bought it! I actually liked the LRR-Mil and had my 3-27 swapped over from p4f.Even better, I had the LRR-Mil in my 5-45 Schmidt I had a few years ago, I did not like that reticle as I felt it was way too thin.
You must win a lot of national level matches with that alpha scope.You don't need test equipment to see the difference in finding hidden shot up targets in heavy timber with overcast. These are the types of areas where the Alpha and Beta scopes really separate themselves.
Shoot a 10 round stage with one gun, and then the other, Just finding the targets with the S&B was hard enough. Actually resolving the target for your hold and shot was also significantly more difficult. Half a dozen or more people on this site know exactly where and what I am talking about with these targets at this location.
In bright perfect conditions, yea the S&B is great, But as the conditions worse, the mirage picks up, the delta between them and the current alphas starts to widen. Thats not even getting into reticle differences, which is more of a personal preference anyway.
Not as many as you cupcake.You must win a lot of national level matches with that alpha scscope.
One mans garbage is another mans treasure No, seriously, I love that we have options because we're all different. When I was younger I used to love those razor thin reticles but now I need to see something more substantial.Oh i know.... I bought it! I actually liked the LRR-Mil and had my 3-27 swapped over from p4f.
Not as many as you cupcake.
This TBH. Not to mention with the other alpha brands you cant send it back to get a reticle swap (maybe ZCO can idk). Tangent flat out said no when I asked them about reticle swaps
Ah, thank you Secant. So basically it's ZCO's version of the March FML-3 designed by ILya. Not to derail the Schmidt thread but what's the fascination with Europeans and squares around the center cross?
That's super niche lol. nice on them for catering to that though.The Target 1 reticle is made for a specific style of competition in Europe and is mainly sized for a specific target at a specific magnification.
So no reason to bring it here
Well if I'm on the struggle bus I use the illum to highlight it for meOne mans garbage is another mans treasure No, seriously, I love that we have options because we're all different. When I was younger I used to love those razor thin reticles but now I need to see something more substantial.
That's super niche lol. nice on them for catering to that though.
Now if they could add MSR2...
Go f yourself is basically what I heard but then they added the tremor I can only guess to possibly submit for military contracts eventually now this haha......
Well there's two entities of ZCO... U.S. and Austria that sometimes cater to their specific areas. The Non Locking Elevation option was basically a U.S. only option requested by us that was only performed by Jeff himself who would need to fly to Austria to train the techs their how to perform that function.
Oh Fu%* now you've done it.... Mentioning the "you know what" reticle is like crack cocaine for @HuskydriverThat's super niche lol. nice on them for catering to that though.
Now if they could add MSR2...
That was in regards to asking zco if they would add the msr2... I got politely told no
If enough people ask for it, they are open to it.
They just haven’t had the amount of requests they did for the Horus stuff…..yet.
Well according to people who talked to Jeff about it and from @gebhardt02 himself... No msr2It will probably happen right after they add a military discount. . .
I’m not, no. I agree with you. I don’t agree with the Vortex topping the Schmidt.The people who have done the tests consistently have the PMII close behind the top two. You are coping hard rn
Sorry buddy, I quoteposted the wrong guy, meant to respond to DBDI’m not, no. I agree with you. I don’t agree with the Vortex topping the Schmidt.