Rifle Scopes New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

[BCP]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frankythefly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just looking at the Super Sniper and the Steiner side by side shows who is listening and to what market.</div></div>

Very true. But you have to keep in mind companies like IOR first came here offering oddball stuff and now they are offering scopes with the features people are asking for for a decent price, and although people hate on them their newest models don't seem to be going tits up in droves like the older ones did. There's nothing that says Steiner can't listen to the market here too.

That being said if I ever had that much $$$$ to blow on a scope (say 2500-3k) it would be a S&B, period. I've used them and IMO they do everything right and are the benchmark for higher dollar tactical scopes and I think that's the main problem with steiner making a high dollar scope; not only does it have the "wrong" features it doesn't say S&B on the side of it. I could be wrong but I think their initial models may be a hard sell.

 

[Tactical_Tom]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

My bet is the Super Sniper will sell for $1,335 with a standard deviation of $90.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

Curious to see the overall adjustment range on the SS 5-20.

Nice that they stopped at 50mm on the obj to keep a 2.5mm EP, I'm curious to see the available adjustment, and crossing my fingers there's a zero stop involved (I'm dumb enough to be a turn off if it had 20mil per turn!).

The reticle looks pretty functional too. Smacks of some done for the SH IOR.....

Adjustment range and whether or not the eye relief varies much with mag changes will be factors for me.


I'm sure the Steiner is going to be a solid Euro scope.

 

[billyburl2]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

According to Jon's thread it has 33.5 mils total elevation.

 

[DieTrying310]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

Oooooo I'm liking that new SS. I'll be interested to hear more. I have the 3-9 waiting for me at home for my .223, I could see this 5-20 possibly ending up on my bolt gun.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: billyburl2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">According to Jon's thread it has 33.5 mils total elevation. </div></div>

Nice!!

 

[-=boone=-]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical_Tom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My bet is the Super Sniper will sell for $1,335 with a standard deviation of $90. </div></div>

No offence but I hope not. That's about the same as a used NF and more than a PST.

 

[dmg308]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical_Tom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My bet is the Super Sniper will sell for $1,335 with a standard deviation of $90. </div></div>

No offence but I hope not. That's about the same as a used NF and more than a PST. </div></div>

You need to compare equals I dont think you'll find a NF F1 anywere near $1300.I also suspect it is a full tear above a PST.

 

[-=boone=-]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical_Tom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My bet is the Super Sniper will sell for $1,335 with a standard deviation of $90. </div></div>

No offence but I hope not. That's about the same as a used NF and more than a PST. </div></div>

You need to compare equals I dont think you'll find a NF F1 anywere near $1300.I also suspect it is a full tear above a PST. </div></div>

We will only find out when they hit the market. It's speculation right now. I have nothing against SS scopes. I own the 3-9 FFP. As far as the illumination goes on this scope you might as well not offer it if you’re only going to light up a small dot in the middle of the reticle. JMO

 

[Opticsspecialist]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

the steiner/burris people seem to think the 4-16 is going to be a good seller, they are aware of what customers want/demand, in fact they were here last week. we're interested to hear your review Frank

 

[Opticsspecialist]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Optronika, the guys who left S&B who did the Premier are in Germany, and they are on here, so maybe they can answer some of the why's, as to why they did things they way they did.

But I don't think this was designed as an American Scope, but a typical European scope, which may in time grow to suit US Shooters more. Like S&B did, back in the day, the PMIII didn't offer any of these features either, it evolved.

Same people, different contract or requirements will produce a different scope from the same minds. But, scope design, which has nothing to do with execution, it's essentially however it was requested to be done, is from the same people.

You can spec anything and ask people to build it, the problem may have been Steiner simply looking local and asked to match that. Being brought into the country by Burris doesn't make it any less European, at least from my limited knowledge on the relationship. </div></div>

this

 

[BCP]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also suspect it is a full tear above a PST. </div></div>

We'll see. I'm willing to bet the glass in the HD will be better than the PST (but not by a huge margin) & if it's anything like the other SSniper offerings it'll have a heavy build to it. So those will be the main differences for the end user.

 

[jrob300]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also suspect it is a full tear above a PST. </div></div>

We'll see. I'm willing to bet the glass in the HD will be better than the PST (but not by a huge margin) & if it's anything like the other SSniper offerings it'll have a heavy build to it. So those will be the main differences for the end user. </div></div>

10 mil/rev is a big deal to some...

John

 

[BCP]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
10 mil/rev is a big deal to some...

John </div></div>

Yeah I love having that on my IOR. On an 18" 308 it's effectively a single turn.

However the PST zero stop is pretty retard proof.

Like I said I think the glass quality and the overall construction will be the biggest differences people will weigh when they look at it vs. a scope like the PST.

TBH what amazes me most is how they found 30mils of internal travel in a 30mm 5-20.

 

[JRose]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Opticsspecialist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the steiner/burris people seem to think the 4-16 is going to be a good seller, they are aware of what customers want/demand, in fact they were here last week. we're interested to hear your review Frank </div></div>

I disagree. I think another $2500+ scope is filling a dying market to civilians. If they pick up a military buyer they'll be fine, but if they're relying on marketing it to civis, I say good luck... There are already bionafied proven scopes out there that I think people spending that much would choose over a new comer. In the end, Steiner has nothing really revolutionary with this scope to say "hey, you should buy this scope instead".

Now scopes like the SS and some of the Vortex offerings, I think they're really noticing the gap and filling it.

 

[Adam B]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Opticsspecialist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the steiner/burris people seem to think the 4-16 is going to be a good seller, they are aware of what customers want/demand, in fact they were here last week. we're interested to hear your review Frank </div></div>

I disagree. I think another $2500+ scope is filling a dying market to civilians. If they pick up a military buyer they'll be fine, but if they're relying on marketing it to civis, I say good luck... There are already bionafied proven scopes out there that I think people spending that much would choose over a new comer. In the end, Steiner has nothing really revolutionary with this scope to say "hey, you should buy this scope instead".

Now scopes like the SS and some of the Vortex offerings, I think they're really noticing the gap and filling it. </div></div>

I couldn't agree more, if you want to outfit all of your rifles with decent scopes, you have to look at options that are in the sub $1k to $1500 range.

 

[BrettSass844]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Adam B</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Opticsspecialist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the steiner/burris people seem to think the 4-16 is going to be a good seller, they are aware of what customers want/demand, in fact they were here last week. we're interested to hear your review Frank </div></div>

I disagree. I think another $2500+ scope is filling a dying market to civilians. If they pick up a military buyer they'll be fine, but if they're relying on marketing it to civis, I say good luck... There are already bionafied proven scopes out there that I think people spending that much would choose over a new comer. In the end, Steiner has nothing really revolutionary with this scope to say "hey, you should buy this scope instead".

Now scopes like the SS and some of the Vortex offerings, I think they're really noticing the gap and filling it. </div></div>

I couldn't agree more, if you want to outfit all of your rifles with decent scopes, you have to look at options that are in the sub $1k to $1500 range. </div></div>

+1 I think you are absolutely right!

 

[Opticsspecialist]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Opticsspecialist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the steiner/burris people seem to think the 4-16 is going to be a good seller, they are aware of what customers want/demand, in fact they were here last week. we're interested to hear your review Frank </div></div>

I disagree. I think another $2500+ scope is filling a dying market to civilians. If they pick up a military buyer they'll be fine, but if they're relying on marketing it to civis, I say good luck... There are already bionafied proven scopes out there that I think people spending that much would choose over a new comer. In the end, Steiner has nothing really revolutionary with this scope to say "hey, you should buy this scope instead".

Now scopes like the SS and some of the Vortex offerings, I think they're really noticing the gap and filling it. </div></div>


i agree, but they aren't going after that market, the sights are on the higher end. they will be fielding more interesting models soon

 

[SWFA]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

Sorry for all the misinformation in regards to availability of the new SWFA SS-HD 5-20x50 FFP. That is my fault for not keeping all my guys up to speed. I have purposely not told them much because ETA's are never correct and there are too many variables involved. So, many of you were getting vague responses for that reason.

I can tell you that some will be shipping THIS month. I cannot tell you the price yet but can confirm that it will be over $1000. but not over $1500.

 

[gglass]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

Chris is my hero!

I am willing be one of the Guinea pigs to field this new scope. Just give me a place to order...

 

[benjaminzero]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

Chris,
Is that the final reticle then and no zero-stop? Could someone explain the benefit to a diamond mil-dot over a plain hash?

 

[MattA]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SWFA</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I cannot tell you the price yet but can confirm that it will be over $1000. but not over $1500. </div></div>

Aweeee yeah, that's real talk right thur.

 

[abit91]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

A zero-stop and sun shade would be nice.

 

[treebasher]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

Just my two cents worth, no zero stop is a deal breaker for me. I was REALLY excited about the new 5-20XSS...

 

[JRose]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

Zero stop obsession is a mystery to me...

 

[jasonk]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Zero stop obsession is a mystery to me...
</div></div>

Mystery to me too.

With 10 mil a turn....how does one get lost?

 

[JRose]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

Guess people just want to want.

 

[buffybuster]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Zero stop obsession is a mystery to me...
</div></div>

Mystery to me too.

With 10 mil a turn....how does one get lost? </div></div>

A common mistake of people trying to design a foolproof system is to under estimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

Though I'm with you; a Zero-Stop is nice but not necessary.

 

[NUTT]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

I'm digging the SWFA SS. I've got a 10x (non-HD) and a 3-9 already. Based on the current specs and price, I'll likely scoop one up.

 

[treebasher]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Zero stop obsession is a mystery to me...
</div></div>

Mystery to me too.

With 10 mil a turn....how does one get lost?</div></div>

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

With the ease with which they can be manufactured when intended from the get go, I feel there's really no reason I should have to note anywhere on my rifle or data which turn I'm zeroed on after paying out four digits.

I've left an Erek a full turn off, so I guess its really not the scope's fault.

 

[jrob300]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: treebasher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Zero stop obsession is a mystery to me...
</div></div>

Mystery to me too.

With 10 mil a turn....how does one get lost?</div></div>

</div></div>

That's funny Treebasher... I was going to contrast the wooden wheel vs. the rubber tire, but I think you communicated your point well.

I think we need to have these guy's out to Augustis' place. Steel plates. 100-2000 yds and in between, timed event. See how the no-zero stop vs. zero stop works. If you guys can keep track, you're doing better than me.

I like zero stops. Even *with* 10 mils/turn. Sometime's I just can't remember whether that was 31 mils or 21...

John

 

[Lowlight]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I like zero stops. Even *with* 10 mils/turn. Sometime's I just can't remember whether that was 31 mils or 21...

John</div></div>

I like Zero stops too, but they draw these straight white lines on there so you won't get lost... like a road map they help you know where you are.

each rev has a number... it's pretty cool how they do that so guys using 21 mils won't get lost, they even made them low numbers so you won't get confused, 1, 2, etc, instead of trying to trick you with numbers like 42, or 67.

 

[jrob300]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

Frank,

You know I love you.... I really do. But to argue that finding a little white line... not just *any* white line, but the *right* white line (some of us have 30 and 40 moa bases, so the "0" line is no longer the *right* line), in the heat of battle, when you could just turn down to a stop and then back to (insert value here)... I have a hard time believing that even you think that is a reasonable argument.

Not busting chops here? Really? Not even a little?

John

 

[Lowlight]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

Heat of Battle, really... John, distance, should give you time and opportunity.

They have this invention it's called:

if you are running and gunning with a 2000 yard shot you are doing it wrong.

And really, you only need to know where the zero line is, that is why they are there.

How many years did people NOT have zero stops, or like a Leupold M1, have revolution after revolution. Hensoldt uses colors, it can be done quite effectively

 

[jrob300]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

Frank,

As usual, you raise good points... but I will take a zero stop over no zero stop if I have my 'druthers (look it up).

I certainly think that it would be a step in the wrong direction for scope companies to suddenly get feedback from this community that zero stops are, "meh". I'm pretty sure that's NOT the message you meant to send.

Should we all be adept at using any scope, with or without a zero stop... YES!. Are they a really nice convenience that helps us keep from aerating the lawn behind our intended target? Yes!

John

 

[jrob300]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

P.S.... I *really* like the Sharpie idea. Serious. I should have either seen it or thought of it before. Thanks.

John

 

[Jon A]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

Folks,

For those for whom a zero stop is really important on this scope--relax. Wait a bit and it'll have one. And for those who don't care a whole lot about one--you'll likely save a few bucks by buying one without.

Nothing really to argue about.

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

I agree a ZS is not a necessity, but if you are arguing that not having a zero stop is better than having one, then that is just foolish.

Along the same lines as arguing not having illumination is better than having it, while probably less of a necessity for most than even ZS is, its not worse!

 

[Lowlight]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

It's not an argument, the very first thing I said, was, "I like zero stops too" this was my opening line, so where is the argument ?

Let's face it, the average user will be pushing it if they even use the 10 mils of the first rev, maybe 30% might need it to 11.5 mils, so the idea of most getting lost is stretching it a bit. Less than 1% will ever need 20 mils or more.

 

[vman]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

Looks like a nice bit of gear.

Frank, I must ask. Whats with the pack with our flag on it?

 

[Lowlight]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like a nice bit of gear.

Frank, I must ask. Whats with the pack with our flag on it?

</div></div>

It's a pack I use and one of your guys gave me their flag patch, so it's been on my pack.

 

[Dagsta]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

Frank, I'm anxiously awaiting your review and opinion. This looks like a very nice choice in optics coming available.

 

[jasonk]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

I like that cartoon, cute.

I like zero stops too, they are nice and serve a purpose for guys that lay in the dark for hours on end and may need to twist a knob to confirm that they are on zero without looking and then count up from there. However, I'm just a weekend shooter with a rifle that gets to 1k with 7 mils, so the idea of not buying the ideal scope at the ideal price point because it lacks a zero stop is silly to me. Whether it's a Henny or a SS, the decision to buy or not to buy won't be made on the zero stop option.

Now, if there was two options and one was a mere $50 more, sure I'd take the zero stop for resale alone. If it's a $250 option than you can bet that most of my rifles will be wearing the cheaper scope.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

One more swing on the dead horse-

For me, a zero stop is not too keep me from getting lost when I am shooting. It is insurance against brain farts when put my rifle away, then take it back out and need to remember if I returned to zero or not.

Yes its a training issue on my end, yes it can be overcome by noting what line my zero's at, and yes I can mark my scope with paint, labels, sharpies, etc.

If I need to run without one I can, and have. I've also been a turn off on a cold bore shot and the points would have made a difference, not an experience I wish to repeat.

I just prefer optics that cost $1000-3000 to not need me to figure out a fix.

Anyway, the 5-20SS (zs or not) looks to me to be the best bet for the $1000-1500 bracket.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

According to Jon, no tunneling at any power.

Some people don't care.

I hate tunneling.

 

[BCP]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

I can see zero stops on 12-15min turn knobs, I know 41mins on a 12min turn was a PITA but I just don't see how you could twist a 10mil knob enough to get lost. It would have to be mounted in a 30+min mount and you'd have to be shooting a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong ways to even crank that much.

I can see what sobbr is saying but I think for the average shooter a 10mil turn knob (especially if he has a flat shooting caliber) will be a single-turn knob.

 

[billyburl2]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

Waiting for the video....

 

[Lowlight]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

The video will be a bit off unfortunately I have a make a short road trip and hopefully I will be back by Tuesday, then it will be full steam ahead on this, I have it mounted in a SPUHR mount and it is going on an AI AE, so I'll begin running it through it's paces.

In my bay window review style of the last few days, I have to say I like it alot. They did a nice job on the optic as seen in Jon's thread.

 

[BrettSass844]

Re: New Scopes in Hand, 5-20XSS/Steiner

Looking forward to it. Enjoy your road trip.