The question I have is what happened to your deer? You apparently recovered the deer so I'm curious how quickly it died? Where was the bullet jacket in the deer? Did any part of the bullet pass through? Thanks for sharing your results.
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New Sierra Game Changer line
- Thread starter Niles Coyote
- Start date
165gr TGK has a damn good BC for 160 class 30 cal. The 6.5s are still as meh as their TMKs. I'll be sticking with my 130gr ELD-M for my 6.5x47 but might get my brother to grab some 165gr TGKs
I have already said this on another forum but would like to share my experience here to. I shot a cow elk at about 100 yards with a Sierra Gamechanger just a few days ago. It was the .308 dia. 165 gr. bullet with 56 grs. of H4350 loaded as a 30-06. The bullet went right through the heart leaving a fairly small hole on each side. I did not recover the bullet. I have seen other brands of bullets do much more damage to an animals heart. See photos.
Good questions! Right now I'm thinking it was a complete pass through. Granted it had gotten dark by the time I started to quarter it, and the heart was almost the last thing I got and the first evidence I found of where I actually got it. I did not notice the entrance or exist wound or bloodshot meat or broken bones/ribs. Best I can remember, it was mostly broadside when I shot. I'm about to process the meat/quarters and I might find out more.
I'd say that it isn't the performance characteristic that is desired that is debated per se, it is the distance at which either performance characteristic happens. Shooting deer at 30-90yds will yield entirely different results than those shot at several hundred. Bullets that impact light bone (ribs), and bullets that do not, should still effectively kill...at range.
That was my issue with ELD-X, and what I think is also happening with the SGC bullets.
I think the companies should be clear, at what velocity (and therefore what ranges) a bullet, loaded in a specific cartridge, is designed for. Hunting back east where shots are often measure in tens of yards, is much different than out west where shots are measured in hundreds of yards. There should be "forest" loads (with appropriately loaded bullets) and "open range" loads (again with an appropriately loaded bullet) with optimal engagement ranges listed on the box. That would be pretty expensive for the companies, but it would make for less wounded animals, and help out "Joe Lunchbox" who doesn't spend much time thinking about this sort of thing.
JMTCW...
That was my issue with ELD-X, and what I think is also happening with the SGC bullets.
I think the companies should be clear, at what velocity (and therefore what ranges) a bullet, loaded in a specific cartridge, is designed for. Hunting back east where shots are often measure in tens of yards, is much different than out west where shots are measured in hundreds of yards. There should be "forest" loads (with appropriately loaded bullets) and "open range" loads (again with an appropriately loaded bullet) with optimal engagement ranges listed on the box. That would be pretty expensive for the companies, but it would make for less wounded animals, and help out "Joe Lunchbox" who doesn't spend much time thinking about this sort of thing.
JMTCW...
Idk whether to pick some up or not. @MarinePMI you had similar results with the 178gr ELD-X up close?
No, not close, just eratic results with the 143gr ELD-X. It was a 270yd shot. One bounced off a rib, grenade'ed against the sternum and lodged into the opposite side hide wall...but missed everything vital (both lungs and heart were untouched). The second shot hit a rib, plowed through, went through the heart (destroying the left ventricle), out the other side (about the same size exit hole as entrance hole) and then punched through a leg bone, never to be recovered. The front leg bone had a nice .264" hole though it.
What I am seeing in these photos of the SGC is something equally disturbing. Something doesn't add up...
What I am seeing in these photos of the SGC is something equally disturbing. Something doesn't add up...
Should i just tell my brother to bite the bullet and get 168gr LR accubonds? I didn't want him shooting match bullets and if he didn't make the perfect shot on a nice deer he lose it. While i myself have been shooting match bullets for sometime. I was between the ELD-X, SGC, and Nosler LR accubonds.
They died of course but I’ve killed deer with a 22 lr also.... The bullets were more explosive than Bergers. Penetrated a few inches then completely fragmented. That’s a 500 yards from a creedmoor without hitting any bones. The 410 yard shot hit the spine high and didn’t even exit. Not a fucking game changer.
Seems like the 6.5s are a no go. We're about to try the 165s for the 308, seen a couple videos of success with them and figured what the hell.
I think I'll just go back to Barnes O bullets. Those things always performed (mushroomed, retained mass, and just killed the ever loving crap out of stuff).
@reubenski I agree, hence my comment about manufacturers being a little more clear on what a bullet does, and at what velocity.
@reubenski I agree, hence my comment about manufacturers being a little more clear on what a bullet does, and at what velocity.
I finished processing the elk quarters and still did not see any signs of the entrance or exit of the bullet. No bloodshot meat or damaged bones. I did find a very small lead fragment in the heart near the wound channel. The fragment leads me to believe that the bullet did mushroom to some extent or that there might have been some separation, but without hitting bone it didn't cause massive damaged. I still think the bullet passed through. Here are some new photos of the heart. There is a 30-06 with the Gamechanger to give some perspective of size.
My results were very satisfactory for whitetail with the 6.5 130gr. Furthest shot was 135yds, closest was 40yds. I will be using them next year also. I’m only running them about 2725 FPS, May have something to do with it. Some mushroomed good, some came completely apart hitting a lot of bone.
For my next few hunts I plan to keep using the Sierra Gamechanger and see more first hand results. After reading others feedback and reviews, I do think that the bullet did what it was supposed to do in my particular case. Plus I already worked up a load using the bullet and it is accurate with my rifle. Thanks for all the feedback.
Gonna do a velocity test tomorrow with my brother's 308 loaded 44.2-46gr of varget in 2/10th increments to find a node.
Imma say 44-44.5 and then again around 45.6-46 depending on brass you use and I’m assuming Varget.
Lapua but it is worn from my old 308. He needs to get some new brass but i also have like 200 pieces of noslers that will probably be gtg.
Had to come back to the med center for the last week of class before christmas break. I'll know this weekend as i have three weeks off.
Shot them today haven't grouped them but here are the results out of a 20" bartlein M40/M24 with varget. All shot with a Hybrid. Seemed to top out at the mid 45s. Some good nodes in there. Barrel is pretty fast. My load for my previous 308 we've been running through it was giving me 2630fps with 178gr BTHPs of a 20" factory 5R, he's getting 2715fps out of the same load.
44.2 - 2673fps
44.4 - 2700fps
44.6 - 2691fps
44.8 - 2712fps
45.0 - 2717fps
45.2 - 2736fps
45.4 - 2770fps
45.6 - 2762fps
45.8 - 2755fps
46.0 - 2761fps
44.2 - 2673fps
44.4 - 2700fps
44.6 - 2691fps
44.8 - 2712fps
45.0 - 2717fps
45.2 - 2736fps
45.4 - 2770fps
45.6 - 2762fps
45.8 - 2755fps
46.0 - 2761fps
We settled on 45.5 both 44.9 and 45.5. Both gave me SDs around 14. I let my brother shoot 44.9 he shot probably a 5/8ths MOA group. I shot the 45.5 and shot a 1/2 MOA group. Was well on the way to 1/3rd or 1/4th but my fourth shot i pulled. First three were a ragged hole. Those pieces of brass had some rough seating with them and i had no means of checking the Chargemaster because my gempro went down and didn't fill like going back to the beam scale. So i've got it set up and the 50rds we loaded were fine, checked every fifth round, averaged at 2755fps. Which is where i was aiming to be. Going to run it out to 800yds just to get dope and hopefully we can take a doe with them. Issue is he isn't deer hunting and i want to use my 6.5x47 to see what a high shoulder 130gr ELD-M will do, as well as make sure Dad gets his 6.5 SAUM running with the 143gr ELD-X. Might just take his 308 tomorrow and take a doe at 400yds or so.
So my brother wouldn't shoot another doe to give me some performance of these rounds. I shot a doe this afternoon at 375yds. Looked like a perfect hit but wasn't sure where she went in on the CRP. She jumped straight up and tried to run around and run off but fell down and then got up and ran. Going to look in the morning, let her die if it is me and i pulled the shot a little back but i don't think i did. That way i'm not pushing her deeper into the thick stuff. It's 27F here so meat will be good. But i think the shot was fine.
I'll be curious to see what the outcome of the bullet performance is, and where the hit occurred.
Found tiny drops of blood today, specs like she was gut shot. Finally found her though. About 50yds in the thick stuff in the CRP so she ran probably 100-150yds. Yotes tore her up to the bone. Shot was perfect though behind the front shoulder. Should've kept looking last night we were close. Though again there is always that scenario that if she wasn't hit perfect she could've ran further. I'm going to run them out so, before season ends might see if i can take another one and see how it does but i was a little underwhelmed. I just expected more blood than that. I knew i didn't pull that and we had very little wind. Ranging where i found blood she was 400yds from where i shot. Idk could be just the case of that deer they don't all DRT it's not a given, but i'd have liked to have seen a lot more blood.
I didn’t wasn’t much left honestly. I’ve seen yotes get after a deer before but noting like this. Literally devoured. Should’ve kept looking though last night though. All in all it worked blood trail was just strange to me.
Cold weather and denning season means those coyotes are hungry and travelling in large packs. Smh...sometimes things just don't go the way we want them. On the bright side, none of that deer was wasted by mother nature, that's for sure.
I had a similar experience a few years ago, a kid shot a trash buck in the evening hunt that they couldnt find and we didnt go back out to look for it until later that night after dinner. It was spooky being in the brush and hearing all the coyotes around. Probably not very close at all realistically but in the scrub at 10 pm everything feels way closer! They had dragged it ass end like 20 yards or so even deeper into the brush judging by the drag marks in the dirt, I hope he was actually dead for that part and not just super sickly.
I always told my kids that "Mother nature isn't cruel; she's just indifferent. She doesn't give a shit how people feel. Remember that when life isn't fair or things go badly. Most times it's not personal, and bad shit happens to good people all the time."
I will be working up some loads for a Remington Model Seven in .243 Win. I got a deal on some 90 GameChanger bullets from Midsouth. If the deer cooperate, I’ll provide some results from here in Central Texas.
I like the idea of expending all of its energy in the deer.
I used to use Nosler Partitions 115 Gr in. 25-06. It worked but expansion was always iffy and every shot was a pass through.
Also it seems from other folks that the .243 90 gr GameChanger performs best with accuracy when loaded hot near max. I’ll find out.
I like the idea of expending all of its energy in the deer.
I used to use Nosler Partitions 115 Gr in. 25-06. It worked but expansion was always iffy and every shot was a pass through.
Also it seems from other folks that the .243 90 gr GameChanger performs best with accuracy when loaded hot near max. I’ll find out.
308 win/howa action/preferred barrel 21in/mdt lss chassis.
44gr IMR4064
2670fps and dead on at 750.
We put a mule deer down last fall with it, turned a bad shot good. Lots of damage on the inside. 200yd shot, I would say performed as good as eld-x I've shot. Good luck with both, better accuracy and consistency with the Sierra though.
I will note I am seating them at 0.12 from lands (still 2.875inch) because at 0.02 I thought they were too long and wouldn't have good bearing sufrace/concentricity.
44gr IMR4064
2670fps and dead on at 750.
We put a mule deer down last fall with it, turned a bad shot good. Lots of damage on the inside. 200yd shot, I would say performed as good as eld-x I've shot. Good luck with both, better accuracy and consistency with the Sierra though.
I will note I am seating them at 0.12 from lands (still 2.875inch) because at 0.02 I thought they were too long and wouldn't have good bearing sufrace/concentricity.
Anyone used the 64gr TGK yet? It just occurred to me given all the 223 brass and primers i have that i could be running the thermal on the 16" middy launching 64gr TGKs at 2750-2800. They're roughly .20 cents a round a normal price. Which is very good for a hunting bullet. Though currently only optics planet has them marked up at $135 right now.
incredibly accurate, I disliked the lack of expansion. I will only shoot Berger 6mm 95 VLD Hunter in my 6 AR and 108 EH in my custom 6 Creed. Both sub 0.25 MOA and drop in the tracks deadly.
