New Sig Spear (6.8x51 Sig Fury) now shipping

[WindstormSCR]

Normally when you win a contract, you don’t go offering your submission finalist design to the public.

SIG NGSW carbine, suppressor, and .277 Fury ammo for sale to civilians to try to recoup RDT&E funds?......check

Beretta RM227 bullpup NGSW + True Velocity system for sale to civilians announced at SHOT......check

Textron Systems/AAI/Hk......crickets

Army Awards $20 million contract to Winchester to tool-up for new 6.8 NGSW ammo.

Vortex awarded NGSW-FC contract worth up to $2.7 Billion

Textron dropped out completely. so SIG and GD were the only ones left, and GD divested interest to Lonestar and Beretta

To me selling to the public is a smart move, as it allows them to prove out the concept, and recoup some of the investment. I expect more than a few will find use with SF of various persuasions.

 

[Milf Dots]

It'd be interesting to see a move to a whole new platform and caliber, but if it doesn't happen the DoD should standardize on the m4a1 as the base model for non-infantry. Issue something like the 416/m27, SCAR L, or even full ambi Barrett Rec7, LMT, or LWRC piston guns for infantry and those who work right alongside infantry.

 

[TheOE800]

Hell LWRC is already tooled for this with their 6.8 receivers. Magpull 6.8 mags for CQB stuff done. Just build metal mags for longer coal and put the right caliber in it.

It’s truly a shame the Six8 isn’t more popular. They went the right way design-wise making the magwell bigger, but what to do with all my STANAG mags…

 

[357Max]

It’s truly a shame the Six8 isn’t more popular. They went the right way design-wise making the magwell bigger, but what to do with all my STANAG mags…

I have plenty of STANAG mouths to feed. More food for them

If PRI made a steel Six8 mag, LWRC would not be able to keep up with receiver set orders. There damn nice & under rated receivers. Stiff as a mono with ease of barrel install.

 

[Steve_In_29]

Am I the only one who finds it curious that at least 2 of the 3 finalists for NGSW are releasing their rifle/suppressor/hybrid ammunition submissions to the civilian market?

Keep in mind that no contract award for rifles, LMGs, or ammo has been announced, unless I missed something, whereas the Electro-Optical Aiming System award has been announced.

What does that tell you....

I thought I read somewhere that Winchester had been awarded the contract to make 6.8x51 ammo.

 

[TheOE800]

LWRC receivers are very underrated, for sure. I should have bought a DI when they were $999.

 

[Steve_In_29]

Yuuuuuup. That should tell you everything you need to know.


How is the ARMY going to equip everyone with large frame gassers when your average SOLDIER can't qualify with the M4?

Fixed it for you. The Marines qualify just fine.

 

[TheOE800]

Fixed it for you. The Marines qualify just fine.

Eat more crayons.

 

[Milf Dots]

LWRC receivers are very underrated, for sure. I should have bought a DI when they were $999.

I should've too. One of the best values in premium ARs.

 

[Steve_In_29]

Eat more crayons.

Crayons are apparently good for eyesight and shooting skills.

 

[RUTGERS95]

so when can we get lowers?

 

[NY700]

Am I the only one who finds it curious that at least 2 of the 3 finalists for NGSW are releasing their rifle/suppressor/hybrid ammunition submissions to the civilian market?

Keep in mind that no contract award for rifles, LMGs, or ammo has been announced, unless I missed something, whereas the Electro-Optical Aiming System award has been announced.

What does that tell you....

Well I think you can look at this with two incentives to release it publicly. One huge beta test. Let the people do the work

Two of you get a massive Interest and it successful it may help swayth towards your design because of the public support

 

[NY700]

Maybe I’ve missed it but I haven’t seen anything on barrel life.

I’ve heard them discuss the case modifications to handle the pressure but at 80k and from what I have seen as far as expected velocity we have basically a 6.8 pushing 6.5x284 numbers but at higher pressure.

Now I loved my 6.5x284 chambered by John pierce it was one of the most accurate rifles I’ve ever owned but they should have put a gauge on the barrel like a gas gauge You would be able to watch the needle move with each shot. Run to full capability I think that barrel was good for 1800 rounds give or take

 

[ormandj]

Maybe I’ve missed it but I haven’t seen anything on barrel life.

I’ve heard them discuss the case modifications to handle the pressure but at 80k and from what I have seen as far as expected velocity we have basically a 6.8 pushing 6.5x284 numbers but at higher pressure.

Now I loved my 6.5x284 chambered by John pierce it was one of the most accurate rifles I’ve ever owned but they should have put a gauge on the barrel like a gas gauge You would be able to watch the needle move with each shot. Run to full capability I think that barrel was good for 1800 rounds give or take

Some of the magnums are in the 800 usable round range. It all really depends on what goes on at the throat; I’m not sure the pressure directly corresponds with flame front or other components of throat wear. Maybe Frank is supplying Sig with 400MODBB?

 

[LRRPF52]

Well I think you can look at this with two incentives to release it publicly. One huge beta test. Let the people do the work

Two of you get a massive Interest and it successful it may help swayth towards your design because of the public support

At $79.99 per box of 20 rounds, they’ll be getting nothing from the public. DoD doesn’t really work that way either. They couldn’t give a rip what anyone in the public sector has to say since the public is basically entirely ignorant of all the RDT&E that goes on at the various test centers, research labs, and what drives the program requirements for any defense program.

 

[GUNNER10]

Like any other segment in the DoD, there are a ton of players in the RDT&E world. Even for people that have spent significant time at the test centers, its not exactly uncommon to feel like things are dictated by a magic 8 ball. With that being said, I think the most valuable aspect about the RDT&E world is that a ton of the test data gets back to the vendors and products are constantly being improved 2 to 5 percent at at a time.

As for barrel life on the 6.8x51, I would assume it probably falls somewhere between 6.5CM and 300WM, but it really all depends firing cycles. It also depends on what application the rifle is being used for. Longer range/accuracy applications are going to have a much higher accuracy requirement than banging man sized steel at sub 300 yards.

Its a neat round that i would like to mess around with if it could be reloaded, otherwise I think its hard to beat 6.5cm for most applications.

 

[Gtscotty]

Sounds like the Sig entry was announced as the winner of the NGSW competition today.

Army chooses Sig Sauer to build its Next Generation Squad Weapon

The weapon has an advanced optic, shoots 6.8mm and will replace the M4 carbine and M249 SAW.

www.armytimes.com

Still haven't seen any 6.8 cases or ammo in the wild, I wonder if that will change?

 

[WindstormSCR]

Sounds like the Sig entry was announced as the winner of the NGSW competition today.

Army chooses Sig Sauer to build its Next Generation Squad Weapon

The weapon has an advanced optic, shoots 6.8mm and will replace the M4 carbine and M249 SAW.

www.armytimes.com

Still haven't seen any 6.8 cases or ammo in the wild, I wonder if that will change?

friend of mine in WV was crazy enough to order one of the Spears, cleared efile F4 yesterday. They’re planning to mail me some of the spent cases to mess around with, should be good fun.

 

[thehun]

Sounds like the Sig entry was announced as the winner of the NGSW competition today.

Army chooses Sig Sauer to build its Next Generation Squad Weapon

The weapon has an advanced optic, shoots 6.8mm and will replace the M4 carbine and M249 SAW.

www.armytimes.com

Still haven't seen any 6.8 cases or ammo in the wild, I wonder if that will change?

It is going to be wildly expensive when it does....

 

[GUNNER10]

It is going to be wildly expensive when it does....

I believe so, with that being said, if they could support an accuracy based 6.5 rifle and spare 308 barrels for plinking, I would consider one

 

[Noobilicious]

Sig bagged the NGSW contract for 100K rifles supplied: the biggest take away from this is that 80K pressure is mainstream now.

U.S. Army Selects SIG SAUER Next Generation Squad Weapons System

The U.S. Army selects SIG SAUERs Next Generation Squad weapons system. ( Army NGSW)

www.sigsauer.com

 

[WindstormSCR]

Sig bagged the NGSW contract for 100K rifles supplied: the biggest take away from this is that 80K pressure is mainstream now

I don’t necessarily think so, the main reason they went for the pressure class was a specific requirement to fit the performance in a given cartridge size.

even if you scaled up or down the bimetal case tech, you might not see the same returns since force doesn’t scale in a linear fashion.

i think we may see a boost in performance in .308 Win derived cartridges, a “+P” or “Super” standard if you will, but there is a bit of research that needs to be done first on what actions can safely handle something like that vs not.

it’s not that crazy of an idea considering what we do with 9mm Luger today

 

[Don60]

It’s a 270 Winchester.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

It’s a short action 270 Winchester.

FIFY

 

[Eric B.]

View attachment 7783414Been waiting on this for a few years. With all of their faults, I love their innovation and drive.

Barrel swaps (6.8x51, 6.5cm, 308)
Rear and left side charging handles
Ambi bolt catch, release and mag release
Folding stock
2 stage”match” trigger

Web link - Sig Spear

Does the price include SiG's new printed baffle suppressor?

 

[LRRPF52]

What troops really think of the Army’s new XM7 rifle

And it’s a total POS. US Army and PEO Soldier cherry-picked only positive comments from soldiers, while deleting these, so one of them went to Reddit.

“I was recently quoted in multiple publications saying nice things about the Sig XM7 / Vortex XM157, and unfortunately, the 10 minutes worth of critiques I had before saying one nice thing didn’t quite make the cut,” u/vindictivevader wrote in an r/army post. The user, who appears to be Sgt. Colston himself, goes on to explain the issues that he experienced during the live fire and about 2,000 rounds through one XM7. “I have never seen a weapon have so many malfunctions. Namely, failure to extract/eject even when properly cleaned (checked by sig guy) and on adverse gas setting using the GP round.” When new weapons are fielded by the military, product experts are sent by the manufacturer to train the end users. The XM7 is designed to be run with its suppressor and the adverse gas setting allows increased gas into the system to cycle the weapon more violently in case it is dirty. “two-piece casing blows apart occasionally, stuck casings are common in the XM250.”

The XM157 was touted as an advanced digital optic that takes the guesswork out of long-range shots using lasers and computers. However, a digital scope is bound to have teething issues. “The Vortex XM157 is shit. I usually like vortex products, but this one is bad,” u/vindictivevader wrote. “Several ocular focus adjustment rings/diopter adjustments just randomly migrated, the brightest setting is nowhere near bright enough (almost invisible on a sunny day)…Severe zero migration on the lasers.”

 

[WindstormSCR]

And it’s a total POS. US Army and PEO Soldier cherry-picked only positive comments from soldiers, while deleting these, so one of them went to Reddit.
The XM157 was touted as an advanced digital optic that takes the guesswork out of long-range shots using lasers and computers. However, a digital scope is bound to have teething issues. “The Vortex XM157 is shit. I usually like vortex products, but this one is bad,” u/vindictivevader wrote. “Several ocular focus adjustment rings/diopter adjustments just randomly migrated, the brightest setting is nowhere near bright enough (almost invisible on a sunny day)…Severe zero migration on the lasers.”

Ouch, hopefully he's right and it's simply teething issues and not indicative of a deeper problem. it's not like Vortex to fuck up that badly either

 

[LRRPF52]

One of the acquisition managers said it’s a total abortion. He’s a former JSOC/11B career guy. Very good dude.

The XM7 is malfunctioning regularly. FTFeed, FTExtract, FTEject are normal. We’ve seen the same with the civilian Spears in videos where SIG-sponsored shooters were trying to make it look good.

Stocks are breaking off because of that dumb rail mount on the back of the receiver, cross bolts are weak, folding mechanism is failing, recoil impulse is very sharp and loosens the bolts.

Barrels are burning out after only 800rds in some cases.

You need to replace the BCG with a Blank-Firing BCG, which is costly and adds more complexity. The edited soldier’s comments mirror this in that they have a major sensitive items accountability problem when pulling the real bolt carriers out and have to stow them somewhere.

The handguard deviates like on MCX, only worse due to the recoil forces and weight.

You need the suppressor on, otherwise there are going to be hearing loss problems.

Accuracy has been more in the 4-8 MOA region in reality, which means hit probability at distance is less than an M4 or M110.

The XM157 Electro-Optical Fire Control System us dying within 900-1000rds. “Red Screen of death"

Once you configure the XM7 with suppressor, XM157, Surefire WPL, and sling, you’re looking at a 14lb weapon.

And to top it all off, the hardened steel penetrator round doesn’t defeat armor anywhere near the program requirements.

PEO has been selectively-editing soldier feedback to highlight cherry-picked positives, while ignoring gross failures in all aspects of the system.

 

[TacticalPlinker]

How about DOD sending all the 6.8 barrels back and swapping in 18" 6.5 Creedmoor barrels. 120 gr BTHP with standard loading may hit 2750 fps easily. Good energy out to 800m + . Without a suppressor it's roughly the same length and probably lighter.
Done.

 

[keenedge]

One of the acquisition managers said it’s a total abortion. He’s a former JSOC/11B career guy. Very good dude.

The XM7 is malfunctioning regularly. FTFeed, FTExtract, FTEject are normal. We’ve seen the same with the civilian Spears in videos where SIG-sponsored shooters were trying to make it look good.

Stocks are breaking off because of that dumb rail mount on the back of the receiver, cross bolts are weak, folding mechanism is failing, recoil impulse is very sharp and loosens the bolts.

Barrels are burning out after only 800rds in some cases.

You need to replace the BCG with a Blank-Firing BCG, which is costly and adds more complexity. The edited soldier’s comments mirror this in that they have a major sensitive items accountability problem when pulling the real bolt carriers out and have to stow them somewhere.

The handguard deviates like on MCX, only worse due to the recoil forces and weight.

You need the suppressor on, otherwise there are going to be hearing loss problems.

Accuracy has been more in the 4-8 MOA region in reality, which means hit probability at distance is less than an M4 or M110.

The XM157 Electro-Optical Fire Control System us dying within 900-1000rds. “Red Screen of death"

Once you configure the XM7 with suppressor, XM157, Surefire WPL, and sling, you’re looking at a 14lb weapon.

And to top it all off, the hardened steel penetrator round doesn’t defeat armor anywhere near the program requirements.

PEO has been selectively-editing soldier feedback to highlight cherry-picked positives, while ignoring gross failures in all aspects of the system.

An ill-conceived design, for a poorly thought-out purpose? Built by Sig?

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[NHR]

What could possibly go wrong?

The drop test for starters...

 

[wvfarrier]

I don't think better is the correct word, both the Scar 17 and Spear are modernized, large frame AR18's,

I think that despite sigs history of shoddy qc and product abandonment, I think one is more likly to see interesting variants of the spear from sig, for example, I could see Sig do a rattler version of the spear in 8.6cm. That could be cool, I could see Sig release an accuracy barrel for the spear, where as FN doesn't care, or can't get acceptable accuracy out of the 17 and only offers that option in the form of a stand alone weapon system. Looking at the construction, it would appear that electro optics would fare better on the spear than the Scar.

I had a scar 17 and its not a bad weapon, its just the expedited result of a mid 2000's RFP that never really underwent a product improvement phase. Essentially the same mk17 that was field in 2008 is what you see now. Breaks, optics, horrible to suppress, plastic 1913 rail sections, weak stock hinge. If the speak, addresses these short comings, its could be interesting.

We carried Gen 1 SCAR 17s on contract. They sucked: unreliable, inaccurate and somewhat fragile

 

[TacticalPlinker]

SR-25 E2 Master Race checking. Eating popcorn

 

[Cascade Hemi]

PSA looks like the master race compared to Sig.