Rifle Scopes New Steiner T5Xi Tactical Rifle Scopes

#751
unreconstructed said:
Well, you asked so here's my opinion...

The SCR reticle is too thin.
Click to expand...
Considering you have never physically seen it how would you know? Opinion's are like demo-tapes... I don't wanna hear yours...

This thread is 1 page of information followed by 15+ pages of assumptions and opinion. God bless Quickdraw for having the patience to stay engaged.
 
#753
Damn Quickdraw40, Steiner needs pay you for filling in while they have no other representation in this thread. I'd say that you've stepped up big time.

Though, I guess you must be tired of answering the same questions over and over, just asked slightly differently each time. Yeah, I know that it's easier just to ask your own question when a thread is this long, as reading every post takes a time investment not everyone has or is willing to commit.

Again, kudos.

That is all.
 
#755
It's interesting to see all the debate back and forth. As pointed out, no one has one in hand yet. But it's human nature to be impatient despite whatever it is Confucius would say on the subject.

I'm just here for the popcorn. And maybe someone will slip in an actual release date and a finalized price while I'm chewing.
 
#756
My Steiner rep had no update this morning. She couldn't tell me how close they were to release. She couldn't say if they would be flush with them in inventory on release date or if the scope was going to trickle out over the next six months.

Zero........zip...............notta........

Disappointing. I had pretty much decided to put this glass on my .308. But I need it sooner rather than later. Figures I would fall for the one I can't have. Looking like the Burris XTR II in 5x25 is back on the menu.
 
#764
Seriously....

The XTR2s are not made at the Colorado plant. I can't believe some of you actually believe this and force me to respond to this schnanigans.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
 
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#768
I do have a problem buying this Steiner which I believe made in China no matter how much the Steiner people keep an eye on the factory. Nothing from Bauer down jackets, boots, shoes, answering machines, work and they are made in China.
 
#769
They are made in Greeley, Colorado USA with German glass. Fuck, does Schmidt and Vortex have to go through this?

I'm sorry your answering machine doesn't work, maybe it needs a new cassette tape...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
 
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#771
skeeterIII said:
I do have a problem buying this Steiner which I believe made in China no matter how much the Steiner people keep an eye on the factory. Nothing from Bauer down jackets, boots, shoes, answering machines, work and they are made in China.
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Are we talking about Eddie Bauer or Jack Bauer. You kind of lost me there....

I can't wait to see the reticle on this scope either.. I have about 14 days for Steiner to put these out. Otherwise, I have to put in a Burris order to get it in time for the competitions I am shooting. It's not looking good.

But, it is what it is. Maybe I'll take another crack at one in the spring.
 
#778
@ Birddog6424 are you a dealer, where dd you get the MSRP info? and @ QuietShootr What are you seeing @ 2300? Do you guys have access to sites no one else has?

Guess someone beat me to it.
 
#779
54389040.jpg
 
#781
Quickdraw40 said:
They are made in Greeley, Colorado USA with German glass. Fuck, does Schmidt and Vortex have to go through this?
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No, there are brand-specific formulas for grief written on this site. Apparently Steiner has drawn the "allegations of where it's really made" card. Still better off than drawing the "won't handle the recoil of a .22 magnum rimfire" card.

Steiner/Beretta should really be paying you for being the de facto (if unofficial) rep here for the last few months.
 
#783
SomeOtherGuy said:
No, there are brand-specific formulas for grief written on this site. Apparently Steiner has drawn the "allegations of where it's really made" card. Still better off than drawing the "won't handle the recoil of a .22 magnum rimfire" card.

Steiner/Beretta should really be paying you for being the de facto (if unofficial) rep here for the last few months.
Click to expand...

+100 I'd go postal...
 
#785
SomeOtherGuy said:
No, there are brand-specific formulas for grief written on this site. Apparently Steiner has drawn the "allegations of where it's really made" card.
Click to expand...

Thats because the pricing places it 20% less than other similar scopes made in the USA. One has to wonder how these cost savings were achieved. I mean look at Nightforce 3-15 F1. It costs $2500 minus the rings and sunshade for a comparable total of $2100. This 3-15 Seiner is $400 cheaper. How? Why? Is Steiner taking a loss in order to lure customers away from Leupold or NF? Or is it cuz Steiner is able to source materials, equipment, facilities, labor more efficiently being they are a part of Beretta?
 
#786
918v said:
Thats because the pricing places it 20% less than other similar scopes made in the USA. One has to wonder how these cost savings were achieved. I mean look at Nightforce 3-15 F1. It costs $2500 minus the rings and sunshade for a comparable total of $2100. This 3-15 Seiner is $400 cheaper. How? Why? Is Steiner taking a loss in order to lure customers away from Leupold or NF? Or is it cuz Steiner is able to source materials, equipment, facilities, labor more efficiently being they are a part of Beretta?
Click to expand...

The Nightforce F1 is extremely pricey for what it is - and yet, right now you can buy one for $1900 (link below), with rings, and I'm sure that both Nightforce and CSTactical are still making a profit:

https://www.cstactical.com/1275/c356-nightforce-nxs-35-15x50mmf1-1-4-moa-lv5.html

It's become obvious to me that any scope with pretensions of getting LE or .mil contracts has aspirational pricing. Compare the outrageous retail asking prices on Leupold Mark 4 and Mark 6 scopes to counterparts in their sporting-focused line, for one example, or Vortex Razor scopes (which don't seem to be marketed at all towards government contracts) to similarly featured and quality scopes from other brands, including those with major components from the exact same LOW Japan factory (Nightforce NXS and F1). Someone in another thread suggested scopes sell at at least four times their unit cost of production, which I don't find too hard to believe. Has the US fallen so far that it's not plausible to think a US factory can assemble a top quality scope and sell it for $1800 or so? (Incidentally, that's also current retail on a Mark 6 3-18x without illumination, if you shop around). No, I think people are used to paying premium amounts for made-in-Germany products, a combination of the cost structure in the German economy, taxes, export and import duties, transportation, and a huge amount of Auf Deutschland prestige markup.

I must say, however, that the offer of a factory tour is very tempting.
 
#787
They can sell it at that price because some of the other scope company prices are set in the following manner:

Start of a scope line:
$500. Making a little money. Life is good.
$700. We can justify this cost increase of a scope somehow. Get on it marketing guys.
$900. Wow! They just paid that without asking where the extra $400 uptick came from. I'm going golfing.
$1100. We lost some customers that wanted a cheap scope. And now we gained some customers that think that somehow it must be better because its $1100 now. Go figure. I'll be on our private jet.
$1500. How damn stupid are people? Really? This looks like a problem for the next CEO cause I'm retiring to my private island.
$1900. We changed the knobs on the $500 scope we sold 2 years ago. They look meaner now.
$2200. Whup - actually starting to lose customers to other companies that already figured out that people that shoot guns are dumbasses.

For a better example of how this works, this is a Canon EF-L 70-200mm lens for a camera.
Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM Lens 2578A002 B&H Photo Video

1.5lbs of optics. Includes an aperture assembly, ultrasonic motor for zooming, digital computer interface with the camera. 16 finely crafted lens elements. Essentially, its a pain in the ass to make and requires a ton of RND, dev, testing, and and and and and and.
It was $709.

Are some scopes worth $2k or $3k? Maybe. Havent figured out why though. I wish I could say it was durability, but seems I've broken most of the high end scopes through the simple act of shooting guns with them attached to them.

Most scopes these days are rehashes of old scopes...reticle tweaks....the hunt for better illumination...and doing something to the knobs that wasn't all that big of a deal mostly.

I'm glad the Steiners are priced as they are because its gonna hurt the truly insane optics makers, and I've wanted to see that for quite a while.


918v said:
Thats because the pricing places it 20% less than other similar scopes made in the USA. One has to wonder how these cost savings were achieved. I mean look at Nightforce 3-15 F1. It costs $2500 minus the rings and sunshade for a comparable total of $2100. This 3-15 Seiner is $400 cheaper. How? Why? Is Steiner taking a loss in order to lure customers away from Leupold or NF? Or is it cuz Steiner is able to source materials, equipment, facilities, labor more efficiently being they are a part of Beretta?
Click to expand...
 
#789
This fucking thread has gone retarded.
You guys are worse than bunch of teenage girls or comic-con nerds.
You don't know any facts, but speculate, insinuate and slander all sorts of fiction.
This thread needs to be deleted, it is 1 page of good info and 16 pages of bullshit, no wonder Martin bugged out.
 
#790
918v said:
Thats because the pricing places it 20% less than other similar scopes made in the USA. One has to wonder how these cost savings were achieved. I mean look at Nightforce 3-15 F1. It costs $2500 minus the rings and sunshade for a comparable total of $2100. This 3-15 Seiner is $400 cheaper. How? Why? Is Steiner taking a loss in order to lure customers away from Leupold or NF? Or is it cuz Steiner is able to source materials, equipment, facilities, labor more efficiently being they are a part of Beretta?
Click to expand...

Maybe Steiner isn't charging you a "you bought a scope with the Steiner name on it" fee that Nightforce charges. Maybe Steiner aims to compete with Vortex and Bushnell instead of the upper end stuff already dominated by Schmidt, Premier, Hendsoldt, etc.
 
#791
918v said:
Thats because the pricing places it 20% less than other similar scopes made in the USA. One has to wonder how these cost savings were achieved. I mean look at Nightforce 3-15 F1. It costs $2500 minus the rings and sunshade for a comparable total of $2100. This 3-15 Seiner is $400 cheaper. How? Why? Is Steiner taking a loss in order to lure customers away from Leupold or NF? Or is it cuz Steiner is able to source materials, equipment, facilities, labor more efficiently being they are a part of Beretta?
Click to expand...

Perhaps there is a bit more profit built into optics than you think......Or all things you mentioned previously. Remmeber when NF scopes were $1K? same optics are $500+ more for exact model in only a few short years. Its call branding and companies like NF can raise their prices when their Brand is valued. Or maybe not every single company on the globe has the same personel, facilties, overhead rates, raw material pirces , QC process, work flow or the 5 million other variables that account for the retail cost of a product.

I can't believe the gual of some people.... Here comes one of the OLDEST and most RESPECTED optic companies in the world , giving the American public a product that they want that is cheaper the competition.... and some of yall are bitching about it.

Go buy your $9,000 S&B with a 2 year warranty and stfu k?
 
#794
Philotimos said:
@ Birddog6424 are you a dealer, where dd you get the MSRP info? and @ QuietShootr What are you seeing @ 2300? Do you guys have access to sites no one else has?

Guess someone beat me to it.
Click to expand...

Yes, I work in a gunshop, and we are a Burris dealer.

And let me go on record as saying the MSRP "guesstimate" I put up was simple speculation based on Burris' current MSRP pricing versus their street price. The XTR II 5x25 has an MSRP of $1800 and sells for $1200.

If Burris follows it's current MO, and the Steiner truly ends up around $1850 street price, then mathematically, it should MSRP around $2600'ish.

But it appears this thread is in strong need of a disclaimer. ALL of that is simple speculation on my part based on current Burris pricing. We won't know anything for sure until Burris/Steiner officially weighs in,.
 
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#795
LawnMM said:
Maybe Steiner isn't charging you a "you bought a scope with the Steiner name on it" fee that Nightforce charges. Maybe Steiner aims to compete with Vortex and Bushnell instead of the upper end stuff already dominated by Schmidt, Premier, Hendsoldt, etc.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and maybe Steiner plans to sell two versions of basically the same scope:
-the German-made models, to government purchasers or anyone who thinks $$$$$$=quality (always), at premium prices; and
-the USA-made models, to us civilians, at a nice price that still makes them a tidy profit, but in far more volume than they could ever hope for at the $2800 price point.

Beretta is not a small or new company, I'm sure they are quite clever at making money, even if they do so using approaches that resemble airline ticket pricing.
 
#799
This thread is awesome and should not be deleted. Sure, it gets rough in some places, but what great stories don't have some conflict? This is the dark middle chapter where all hope seems lost, the heroic band gets discouraged and distrustful, maybe some folks will fall out. But then, then we will come together, united behind a high quality and well priced product made in the USA and smite the enemy doubt with a well placed shot made easier because of the fine .2 mil wind holds found only in the SCR reticle.
 
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