interesting that they skimmed them down. Since you’ve used both, how does it work compared to the Superlative?
New to AR platform looking for some help.
- Thread starter Ijones
- Start date
interesting that they skimmed them down. Since you’ve used both, how does it work compared to the Superlative?
I'm a huge SA fan. Have lots of them. This JP is extremely nice and built solid. Havent had a single problem with it. No seizing to date.
The theory in the video was that gas was bleeding off while the bullet was still in the barrel. Where as a restrictive was actually keeping more pressure in the barrel. Again i have no practical experiances just trying to learn. Hoping to get it mostly right the first go around. Lol
Good thread.
Inspired me to pick up an M5 lower so I could play along at home this spring. I'll let OP do the trial and error for me.
Inspired me to pick up an M5 lower so I could play along at home this spring. I'll let OP do the trial and error for me.
You’re who convinced me to give them a try a couple few years back, I had always used Seekins or JP set screw style gas blocks. I’ve used probably a half dozen now and need to order another for my new SPR build. I might look into these new JP’s though if they work like the Superlative.
Been a good conversation. I am going to look a lot closer at the LMOS BCG and talk with JP on it. Will definatly switch out the trigger. Will look into the ones mentioned for sure. I like a very lite trigger on a bolt gun but i do see the problem especially with no AR experiance. I can always change it out as i learn if i feel it nessacery Since i already have the M5E1 setup i think i will try it out and if its not working out i can swap parts to a new upper and lower.
This^. I have several of the LaRue triggers and have sold all of my Geissele triggers except for the HSNM i have in my CMP rifle. Combine the LaRue trigger with a JP Reduced power spring set and it's a fantastic ~3.5 lb trigger for around $100.
Also, check out the SLR adjustable gas blocks. They are also good to go. The feature I like about them is the adjustment screw is accessed through the front of the handguard rail (similar to the SA gas blocks), not the side. If you go with the M5E1 upper receiver, the Enhanced Gen 2 handguards have lots of room for virtually any gas block mentioned in this thread so far.
One of my recent builds...
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...on-another-6-5-cm-build.6965944/#post-8025119
OP, a couple of pieces of advice. Don't replace anything you have bought with anything mentioned in this thread until you have built the rifle and have identified an issue or need that said part addresses. Second, if you are prone to analysis paralysis, turn off the computer now- you're only going to get further from your goal with this thread, and spend more money with no rifle to show for it.
That said, I second the recommendation for the SLR gas block, with a caveat. The .936 diameter block i got from them required a straight gas tube for my ar15 build. I've not seen a +2 straight gas tube.
I used an Odin works adjustable gas block in a recent build. All of the functionality of the SLR, at a lower price point.
The Larue MBT-2S is a very intriguing trigger. But, the Giessele gets to that 3.5 lb break using full power springs. For $80, I don't think you can go wrong with the Larue, though I've got half a dozen Giesseles.
That said, I second the recommendation for the SLR gas block, with a caveat. The .936 diameter block i got from them required a straight gas tube for my ar15 build. I've not seen a +2 straight gas tube.
I used an Odin works adjustable gas block in a recent build. All of the functionality of the SLR, at a lower price point.
The Larue MBT-2S is a very intriguing trigger. But, the Giessele gets to that 3.5 lb break using full power springs. For $80, I don't think you can go wrong with the Larue, though I've got half a dozen Giesseles.
I am not planning on changing out what i have but that's just an upper and lower. Having zero experance with the platform i am just looking for opinions on the items i selected
Hoping to avoid parts that wont work or are less then optimal. So for the only thing on the list i will definatly change is the trigger. But i will look into the LMOS carrier and not sjure what to do about the handguard. With a rife +2 system a 15" handguard might be a little short but its also the longest one i can find for the M5E1
AGB has definitely helped fine tune the gas system on 22" or longer 6.5cm barrels with +2 gas systems. When I say fine tune, I dont mean to get to run. I mean to get to run and optimize lock time to prevent case damaged from the BCG coming back a hair too soon and having to rip that case out of the chamber which causes the case damage. Ive tested all this combos extensively over the last few years, HP bolts, different weight rifle buffers and power springs, AGB, rifle gas, +1 gas, +2 gas and JP SCS springs in every combination of spring and steel and tungsten weights you can possibly think up.
What I have found, is a JP SCS Heavy tuned with the second heaviest spring and Tungsten weights (have to check my rifle on how many tungsten and how many steel) and the +2 gas system on a 22" barrel provides a super smooth shooting rifle with brass that looks like it was fired out of a bolt gun. That is with custom barrels, all of which have used JP's QPQ barrel extension with is honed and QPQ coated. This stops the cases from getting the nasty deep scratch and guage in the neck and shoulder upon ejection which BAT and similar non - honed barrel extensions cause.
Just some info from my experience and testing..
Recoil Impulse. I have shot them side by side and the heavy buffer, say a RCA full mass with HP bolt has a much nastier felt recoil in the shoulder compared to the setup I just explained.. Now we arent talking 300win mag nasty, but very noticeable between the 2 setups.
You dont shim or lap a barrel nut to make it line up. you just keep tightening it down until the holes line up not to exceed like 80FTlbs.
if you have a upper like the m5E1 or such. I like 40-45 FTLBS
Cant stand handguards that use nuts that have holes in them for the gas tube. Thats why I use ones that dont have holes...
But once the upper is together, the BCG and buffer move as one. I just don't understand the idea of taking 3 oz out of the carrier, just to put it right into the buffer. Reciprocating mass is reciprocating mass, right?
Do it, and come back and tell me how different they felt. I have lots and lots of times. I wont shoot a full mass bcg in my last 5...
Only time I go full mass bcg is when someone doesn't want to spend the money on a JP SCS.
In the process of experimenting. One would tend to think that a light BCG, light spring, light buffer and just enough gas to cycle would be the lightest recoil impulse.
So Is the lowest felt recoil going to be with the gas shut off completely and no movement of the BCG, buffer, etc.
So Is the lowest felt recoil going to be with the gas shut off completely and no movement of the BCG, buffer, etc.
It's not just about recoil impulse....that combo would give you beat to shit brass...gas set to cycle reliably for 100rds and lock back on last round would give you beat to shit brass as your bcg would be unlocking prematurely.
This isnt a guess, I've tested and posted.about this extensively
Building an large frame gasser is one thing. Tuning it to run reliably, accurately and not hard on parts and brass is a different animal all together
Easy button for a build is Seekins builder set, craddock 22” 6.5 creed with +2” gas, jp lmos, jp ar 10 silent capture spring, Geissele nm, Seekins lpk, etc, I really like the Seekins select agb on rifle +2 to easily without tools turn the gas up or down a few clicks.
you won’t go wrong that way
also have an aero enchanted upper and there’s nothing wrong with it all but there’s no comparison which one feels more solid and higher quality when you have it next to a Seekins builders kit
you won’t go wrong that way
also have an aero enchanted upper and there’s nothing wrong with it all but there’s no comparison which one feels more solid and higher quality when you have it next to a Seekins builders kit
In a small frame yes, absolutely. Large frame ain't my jam though, so I'll defer to to the more experienced people here.
I believe you because I tried it and while it functioned flawlessly it did indeed beat the brass to shit. Normally I wouldnt care but I recently just swapped out my 308 for 6.5cm and plan on reloading it.
That being said. I value your knowledge on how to remedy this and willing to try whatever you prescribe.
Heres what I'm working with.
AERO M5E1 set
Wilson 20" 6.5 CM Rifle length gas
SLR sentry 8 agb
JP LMOS BCG
JP SCS, 3 steel weights, med spring.
I have the spring pack.
Yep that's because its unlocking too soon and trying to rip the case out of the chamber before pressure subsided...
Switching from rifle to +2 gas on 22" 6.5cm barrels mad a big difference in brass not getting beat up. Not sure about on a 20"....you will probably need the more weight and heavier spring then I with that rifle gas.
While Geissele stuff is some of the best their customer service seems to have seen a huge decrease. The triggers will be great as long as you don't need their customer service.
This Thanksgiving I ended up buying a bunch of stuff from them in multiple orders. Kept coming back to them as I was buying parts. A couple of orders were sent out in a reasonable time period. About three of the orders I've placed still haven't shipped yet.
1) I ordered a Geiselle Reaction Rod for a AR-15. Shipped out within a reasonable time frame. Unfortunately when I got it what I received was a Reaction Rod for a AR-10/SR-25. Called them and told them the problem. They said I would need to take care of it through email and send them pictures of the Sales Order plus pictures of what I received. So I did so that day. I week later and they still haven't shipped out the replacement Reaction Rod. They finally created the shipping label for it this morning so I will see if it actually ships out today. At least I think it's the replacement Reaction Rod. I had emailed them last week about when it was going to ship out but I never received a response from them
2) On the 13th and 14th I received an emails saying two of my orders had shipped with tracking numbers for each shipment saying shipping was done with UPS Mail Innovations which means the USPS will be the one actually doing the shipping. Ok, no problem with that but as of right now USPS is saying that they haven't received either package yet and I haven't received either one yet. I'm going to have to call them tomorrow to find out whats going on with these two orders. Hopefully they won't tell me I have to email them.
3) I still have one more order that doesn't look like it's even been processed for shipping yet. Glad I don't need that part anytime soon since I'm still waiting for the barrel for the build it's for and it will probably take another month at least before the barrel ships to CLE to have them work on it. Still irritating though.
4) If you buy a handguard from them and it's your first you're going to have to buy a barrel nut wrench from them seperatly. For the prices they want for their handguards you should definately get the barrel nut wrench from them with the handguard. That's just plain greedy. I should've read their webpage a little better. But it is what it is. Even the ALG handguards come with the barrel wrench so why not theirs that are significantly more expensive.
While they have great products and I love their triggers I won't be buying anything from them again. This round of service has been god awful and I won't be buying from them anytime soon. I wouldn't even be mad about the mistake in shipping me the wrong part if it wasn't for the rest of this cluster f*ck. I understand that every company can make a mistake but it's how you handle the mistake that determines whether I get mad or not and hold it against the company.
This Thanksgiving I ended up buying a bunch of stuff from them in multiple orders. Kept coming back to them as I was buying parts. A couple of orders were sent out in a reasonable time period. About three of the orders I've placed still haven't shipped yet.
1) I ordered a Geiselle Reaction Rod for a AR-15. Shipped out within a reasonable time frame. Unfortunately when I got it what I received was a Reaction Rod for a AR-10/SR-25. Called them and told them the problem. They said I would need to take care of it through email and send them pictures of the Sales Order plus pictures of what I received. So I did so that day. I week later and they still haven't shipped out the replacement Reaction Rod. They finally created the shipping label for it this morning so I will see if it actually ships out today. At least I think it's the replacement Reaction Rod. I had emailed them last week about when it was going to ship out but I never received a response from them
2) On the 13th and 14th I received an emails saying two of my orders had shipped with tracking numbers for each shipment saying shipping was done with UPS Mail Innovations which means the USPS will be the one actually doing the shipping. Ok, no problem with that but as of right now USPS is saying that they haven't received either package yet and I haven't received either one yet. I'm going to have to call them tomorrow to find out whats going on with these two orders. Hopefully they won't tell me I have to email them.
3) I still have one more order that doesn't look like it's even been processed for shipping yet. Glad I don't need that part anytime soon since I'm still waiting for the barrel for the build it's for and it will probably take another month at least before the barrel ships to CLE to have them work on it. Still irritating though.
4) If you buy a handguard from them and it's your first you're going to have to buy a barrel nut wrench from them seperatly. For the prices they want for their handguards you should definately get the barrel nut wrench from them with the handguard. That's just plain greedy. I should've read their webpage a little better. But it is what it is. Even the ALG handguards come with the barrel wrench so why not theirs that are significantly more expensive.
While they have great products and I love their triggers I won't be buying anything from them again. This round of service has been god awful and I won't be buying from them anytime soon. I wouldn't even be mad about the mistake in shipping me the wrong part if it wasn't for the rest of this cluster f*ck. I understand that every company can make a mistake but it's how you handle the mistake that determines whether I get mad or not and hold it against the company.
Uhhhhhh, you placed a bunch of small orders from them instead of one big order which further slows down and complicates their shipping when they’re absolutely swamped with orders... And you’re complaining. You made the problem worse, some of use haven’t even gotten our orders. You’ve gotten most of you multiple order, AND you’ve gotten your issue resolved and replacements on the way. My order from thanksgiving hasn’t even shipped and I don’t expect it to this year.
You really have to give them some slack, they messed up ONE of your orders while they’re absolutely slammed.
Regarding the barrel but wrench, big deal. A lot of premium manufacturers use a proprietary wrench and most don’t include it. I’m guessing you’re not familiar with KAC? Their wrenches can cost almost half of what the rails do.
I am also a big fan of moderately "heavy" recoil parts combined with Adj. GB's on Large Frame AR's .... they do shoot very smooth for me as well.
Lol, Smooth like soft butter.
Soft enough that most people are surprised after shooting them... exclaiming "That wasn't nearly as bad as I was expecting".
And extraction at a lower chamber pressure, ( slightly slower cyclic speed from those heavy parts and Adj. GB ) does wonders on brass condition, and ( IMHO ) Large frame AR function.
The recoil impulse is markedly improved, allowing far quicker followup shoots as well.
Good to hear others enjoying a heavy setup and its generous benefits.... I was beginning to think I was one of the few "followers" of that doctrine. Lol
Last edited:
Small or large orders doesn't matter. It shouldn't take this long to get your orders anymore. The reason it's taking so long is because Geissele flat out stated that they were going to ship orders made at full price before the orders that were purchased on sale during their black friday sale. That was on their website but is now gone probably because they started receiving complaints about that and realised that saying that made them look bad.
And in regard to the mistake they made it's not that they made the mistake. It's how I was forced to deal with that mistake, their lack of communication regarding the mistake and the time frame it's taking to rectify that mistake.
All other orders I placed that weekend have been received. Heck, even an order I placed after black friday has already been received. So what exactly is taking Geissele so long to get stuff out. I'm sure they weren't the only ones to get slammed.
And in regard to the mistake they made it's not that they made the mistake. It's how I was forced to deal with that mistake, their lack of communication regarding the mistake and the time frame it's taking to rectify that mistake.
All other orders I placed that weekend have been received. Heck, even an order I placed after black friday has already been received. So what exactly is taking Geissele so long to get stuff out. I'm sure they weren't the only ones to get slammed.
I did it to relay what my service has been like. Recent CS experiences may not be important to you but it might be to the OP. It wasn't really to vent.
So now that all these rifle parts are figured out, what optic are you using? There’s only one or two manufactures that are good.....
I like the S&B scopes. Will probable set one of those on top. I have a Burris Black Diamond 4-16x50 in the closet that might set on top of it for a bit untill i buy new optics. The Burris will not be a great scope for this but will be serviceable untill i get an S&B.
What is taking them so long? If I was Geissele and had a disclaimer on the sale that said something like “It might take 5 weeks to get your order” I would sell stuff that I hadn’t made yet... why would I do that? To make more money so I can keep my employees employed and to make my customers happy with a good deal.
It’s not like they shut their factory floor down and stop making stuff.
My point is they probably sold me a 35mm scope mount that hadn’t been made yet.
That’s why it took 3 weeks to ship... that’s just my assumption.
Stop shitting on a great American company.
This isn't Amazon dude, yes multiple small orders slow down shipping more than one combined large order. I do this stuff for a living.
They stated 8 weeks and you agreed. You have gotten most of your multiple orders and even gotten the one resolved. My order from Thanksgiving night hasn't shipped and you don't see me bitching about it.
I suspect to make items available at the sale price instead of the stuff just flat being out of stock they essentially allowed backorders on stuff that they don't have ready yet. I noticed that some things on the site would just allow "add to cart" and some product pages actually physically said "in stock". Would you rather them do that and you get the sale price but wait a little while, or would you rather have to wait for it to come back in stock and then pay full price?
You're being very unreasonable, you agreed to the 8 weeks just like everyone else who placed an order. You're not entitled to anything before anyone else. It hasn't been 8 weeks so you have no reason to be complaining.
But, please don't order anything from Geissele. Next black friday you'll be one less person in front of other people who don't cry like little babies when they don't get their stuff the next day.
Are you suggesting Geissele doesn't have great CS? They offered consumers an amazing sale with great pricing, they stated up front that they were going to be hammered with orders and it may take some time for your order to ship, and they are still handling the CS issues while they are absolutely swamped with orders. The guy has ONE of his multiple orders that didn't ship, he had ONE order that that someone made a mistake and sent him the wrong item, and they fixed that in a reasonable amount of time while they are swamped. There's a guy one arfcom that received the wrong color BUIS, another simple mistake, and they took care of that too.
So where is the bad customer service? Are entry level warehouse employees never expected to make a mistake? I got news for you dude, if every retailer employed people with high attention to detail to do this sort of work you wouldn't be able to afford to buy anything. People who make few mistakes and function like machines don't work for $10-$15/hr.
