New to bolt gun thread, question about AI based on use case

[ut755ln]

I have a lot of experience with shooting but it is primarily with pistols and small frame gas guns. Sometime around 2010, I purchased a GAP 260 Rem and had a lot of fun with it. With kids and life, I just could not spend the time to go do competitions and even had a hard time getting to a range so I ended up selling the rifle.

My kids are now out of the house and we bought a place outside Houston where I have room to shoot far (far for me, I can safely shoot almost 1,300 yards). So for the last eight months I have been reading this forum and the precision rifle blog. I have also reached out and talked to a bunch of people who have been incredibly helpful and friendly but I still have some really basic questions and I also want to check myself versus the real life experience of the forum.

I do not want to own half a dozen bolt guns, I would greatly prefer to own a single platform that allows for changing caliber by swapping barrels and bolts. The two choices that I landed on were Accuracy International and the Terminus Zeus. My goal is to be able to shoot 1,200 yards with the rifle reliably. I will also use the rifle on occasion to shoot feral pigs and deer. I do not expect to compete with the rifle, I also don't expect to ever sell it (my kids can deal with my gun collection after I am dead). I am not working with any real budget constraints in that I can afford an AI and a high end piece of glass.

1) My first question is, if you look at PRS ranking and the top 200 shooters none of them were using AI last year. Are the custom actions with Bartlien barrels just inherently more accurate than AI?

2) Am I being overly concerned with accuracy given my use case above?

3) Am I being a moron? Is a barrel swap system even necessary or could I just build a 6mm or a 6.5mm and be good to go for the things I want to do?

So that you know why I am thinking this way, I have been corresponding with a couple of people and one of them shoots for the US Army and he is uses a barrel swap system. He likes it because of the flexibility of the system and it's ability to scale up and down. He was telling me for instance that he spends a lot of time swapping to a 5.56 layout to work on wind calls for instance. The idea of a buying one rifle platform with a premium scope and then swapping in different barrels and bolts (instead of new firearms) is what is appealing to me, sort of future flexibility if I decide to change things up.

 

[Bigfatcock]

Easy barrel swaps is worth it just to avoid down time for replacing burnt out barrels.

 

[MK20]

AI has a hard time running 223, just FYI.

Other than that, I say AI all day long. They are much more durable, barrels are easy to find, they shoot damn well, and swapping the barrels is as easy as turning a screwdriver.

You don't see AI in PRS because prs has become very gamified. The AI rifles, with the exception of the new AT-X all have a pretty high barrel over bottom of stock. That is, they sit high on barricades, etc. Not as good for the PRS game, but they can absolutely be used.

What they have over PRS guns is absolute bombproofness. There are Irish AI AW rifles still serving in their military today that were made way back in the 90s. They are still using the original barrels, even. The Lothar Walther LW50 steel they used back then is very hard and makes good barrels.

Jacob Bynum of Rifles Only down there in Kingsville, TX has an AW with over 26 barrels on it. As in, he has shot out that many barrels on one action. That is well over 200K rounds through one gun and it still keeps going.

They are the best general purpose precision small arm ever made.

 

[spife7980]

I’d take two customs over an ai every day of the week

 

[oldrifleman]

Do you want a traditional Stock or a metal chassis? The Zues and AI are about equal on barrel change. Both have the ability to reach out and touch things given the right caliber/ammo, The Zues has more mounting capabilities (Chassis or stock). You can put a ZUES in a lighter weight foundation or Manners stock or one of the many Chassis on the market. Trigger selection is bigger on the Zues. You could get a good stock with action and put lighter barrels for hunting, heavier to reach out to 1300. Although I think the AI is wonderful platform for your mixed use, I think the Zues is a better choice.

 

[MK20]

Which Zeus has well over 200K rounds on the action again? With minimal parts changes?

 

[oldrifleman]

Which Zeus has well over 200K rounds on the action again? With minimal parts changes?

Totally agree with you, I totally trust the AI platform. My comments reflected his mixed use case. If you are doing position shooting only, the AI is wonderful ( if one ignore the spares shortages, lack of parts continuity between generations). It is pretty much bulletproof. It is heavy, it is pretty tall and large. I knew the AI Gods were going to smite me

 

[Bacarrat]

What do you plan on doing with the rifle? Just shoot prone out to distance? Get the AI for all the reasons @MK20 listed above.

I don't now what part shortages people are talking about. Unless you are a left hand user and need the left handed bolts. Having 2 different AI platforms, I have never found finding parts was that much of a challenge. I got all new plastic on my MC, 3 bolts, handguards, and multiple barrels for it. The AW has never needed any parts and I'm over 10k rounds through the action and on it's 4th barrel. There isn't that many part for the whole rifle that ever needs to be replaced. Yeah, it's not going to be 700 parts commonality, but I wouldn't say finding parts is that hard.

If the OP wants to check out some AI rifles, there are quite a few of use in the Houston area and we have most if not all the AI flavors.... cept for the 50.

 

[ut755ln]

Do you want a traditional Stock or a metal chassis? The Zues and AI are about equal on barrel change. Both have the ability to reach out and touch things given the right caliber/ammo, The Zues has more mounting capabilities (Chassis or stock). You can put a ZUES in a lighter weight foundation or Manners stock or one of the many Chassis on the market. Trigger selection is bigger on the Zues. You could get a good stock with action and put lighter barrels for hunting, heavier to reach out to 1300. Although I think the AI is wonderful platform for your mixed use, I think the Zues is a better choice.

I will reply to you but this is picking up some other comments.

There is zero chance I put 250k rounds on a rifle at this point. A more realistic number is two to three hundred a month. One of the pros that I have heard about AI is that they do a much better job than one off custom rifles in terms of retaining value. While there are aftermarket barrels for AI, the AI barrels are harder to come by in some calibers. For instance there is a waiting list right now at Milehigh and Europtic for AI 308 barrels. I don't think anyone would argue that PRS style rifles are as rugged or durable as an AI. One of the negatives is that the parts/aftermarket for it are limited compared to the custom rifles. Another negative is that you have little cut out penis shapes all over your rifle.

If I had to pick a build it yourself rifle today based on what I have actually been able to handle and shoot, I would order a Foundation Centurion stock over the various chassis systems. I like the aesthetic of the stock, I like that I don't have to bed it for it to work. I like that I can buy prefit barrels from a company like Proof that are the same length, same contour, same weight, ect.

I really want to get this right. I don't mind the buy once, cry once but I want to avoid regret in my decision.

 

[ut755ln]

If the OP wants to check out some AI rifles, there are quite a few of use in the Houston area and we have most if not all the AI flavors.... cept for the 50.

Where?

 

[oldrifleman]

I have a couple of Centurians, Foundation now some lighter versions for hunters, the Centurian is a good choice, My Zues is in a Samson (way heavy). AI rifles do retain a huge amount of value, but the PX is full of Custom rifle parts as well as complete rifles that are about 70 percent of new. the advantage of the AI is you have proven system that is bombproof, I haven't had any issue with my customs.

 

[CStroud]

What percentage of hunting vs prone style target shooting are you going to do? Are you comfortable handling a 15ish pound rifle? I only ask because AI's are hard to make "light". I know that term is subject to varying opinions, but it's a real consideration for some. If you don't like lugging heavy shit around I'd go Zeus with whatever flavor cf barrel you want in a nice stock and call it a day.

 

[Bacarrat]

Where?

Most of the time we shoot at CCC in Navasota. We usually go Sunday mornings.

 

[Chickentoast]

I have half a dozen bolts because I tiptoed in. Way too much money in each platform - savage, remmy, tikka. However, I wouldn't really know what I like had I not experimented. I would probably still say build 1 in the 8-10 lb area and another heavy, but if going with only 1, I would focus on the stock/chassis - the most important part of the system - should fit like a glove and you should enjoy how it feels. Ex. If your trigger finger isn't exactly positioned correctly, you will compensate, and not even know it if you aren't shooting another rifle with the reach you like best. The grip on the AI chassis is unique - I have one and do enjoy it, but it's definitely different than other chassis. Suggest buying your target rifle first - you could always do a lighter build on the same action as well later, and have a bunch of barrels for either your light or heavy rifle.

 

[hafejd30]

My pick would be the AI but not without pointing out some differences.

The AI is bombproof. It’s a military grade true hard use sniper rifle with a proven record to stand behind it. As long as you buy a 2014 or newer it has the quickloc which is a simple Allen screw to change the barrel. I haven’t used the Zeus but it looks more like a set screw style vs clamp style on the AI

AI mags are the best. Particularly the AW style double stack. They’ll run flawless in the AI. The Zeus, although I haven’t used one, I’ve seen numerous complaints of feeding issues with those in the Zeus. You can run AICS mags in the Zeus but those suck once you get used to the 10 round AW mags.

Durability and reliability will go hands down to the AI. But for casual shooting and proper maintenance you may not see a difference. This ain’t just a Zeus thing. It’s a simple comparison against an AI action, chassis, mag and trigger vs the pieced together Zeus chassis/mag and trigger reliability for whatever aftermarket trigger you use. AI comp triggers have had a few issues mainly early on. I use the standard trigger and love it with zero issues. They’re super reliable

The hardest part with AI is that it’s designed as a system. It runs super reliable but you need to be happy with the chassis system and can’t venture very far from common calibers like 6/6.5, 308, 300 etc etc. There’s a few mods out there now but being this system runs the double stack mags and can’t run the AICS mags which limits you on how much tuning you can really do. But in comparison AW mags trump AICS

The Zeus will take the win in the components available department. With the AI there’s not much you can do if you truly don’t like them. Other than try a few and see which best suits and fits you. I went through AT/ATX and AXMC and now own two AT’s with thumbholes as that’s my preference

With the Zeus you can swap triggers and chassis at will to find what you want. AI you’re stuck with what you have for the most part. Bolts are the same. You can find just about any bolt/size for the Zeus. Allows you to run about any caliber. With the AI complete bolts are more expensive ($900) and can be very hard to source. If you want to run a WSM caliber you need a custom conversion from black canyon or similar where you can just order it with the Zeus.

When it comes to parts availability the Zeus parts for the Zeus are a dime a dozen as it’s common R700 platform. AI’s your options are basically MH, Eurooptic and Sporting Services in the UK. Same goes for warranty issues.

Now the big one. Cost. Everything with AI written on it will come at a premium price. With the exception of barrels in the px here. The attachments are proprietary keyslot vs Mlok on most of their chassis and any AI rail will be much more expensive. Even though it’s a much more robust system it still means you may have $500 ties up into picatinny rails and NV bridges all said and done

If you want to run magnum cartridges you really step up the price as the AXMC (old) and AXSR (current) platforms are the only long action options. A new AXSR from MH discount will run you $8900 for the elite sand on sale. Otherwise you’re looking at $11,000+. The Zeus will be much cheaper in all regards

However the AI is a bombproof system. If I inherited an AI it be with me forever. They have and command a certain level of prestige that’s been earned over many years. Although the system isn’t for everyone. The Zeus is more of a parts gun in my mind. Like buying a KAC SR25 vs piecing together an AR from multiple sources.

AI’s are not PRS comp guns although the recent ATX and ATXC are geared more towards that. But the bottom line is prs guys like to be able to swap and try parts at will. There’s better chassis, triggers (single and double stage) and smoother actions for prs in the aftermarket 700 platform than AI brings to the table. Also it comes down to sponsorship. Past optic choices in prs will expand more on how that process looks

I’ve tried many platforms including many customs, semi customs like GA precision and parts rifles. Along with the AI’s mentioned above. My preference is to my AI’s now. That’s all I ever shoot anymore. But if I wanted to run say 223 for prairie dogs or something I wouldn’t even attempt to make my AI work. They just don’t.

If you can get behind several platforms I think it would really help. You may lay behind a AI and decide it just isn’t what you want. Especially if you like a centurion stock design as that’s far from the feeling of an AI

I’d advise for either to shop the sale section here. You can find a ton of parts to save you money. Especially in the trigger and chassis area. Which allows you to buy/try/sell without loosing $ until you find what works best for you. Same with AI. Buy a used AI and you’ll save yourself a ton of $. Then if you don’t like it you just repost for what you paid and move to something else

Just fyi AI’s are heavy. At least my AT’s are. Built like a tank is a very good analogy. Green in 308 and DE in 260 and soon to be 300 WSM

 

[308pirate]

I’d take two customs over an ai every day of the week

Nope

 

[BurtG]

Other than that, I say AI all day long. They are much more durable, barrels are easy to find, they shoot damn well, and swapping the barrels is as easy as turning a screwdriver.

This.


If I were OP and hunting included walking around I’d have a second. Lighter handier rifle.

Variety is the spice. Toolboxes have more than one tool

I vote AXSR and a side chick or fix. Or a custom ish in a bravo or other light stock.

I hunt with AI sometimes but the weight gets heavy

 

[BurtG]

AIs are hot

But the purpose built hunting stuff is cool too