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new to me cz 452 wont extract match ammo

jacq220

jacq220

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 5, 2007
647
1
40
Indianapolis, Indiana
www.indygunworks.com
#1
Like the title says. it will extract EVERY non wax coated round i put in it with ease. will not extract ANY wax coated round. bullet weight, brand, doesnt matter. i cannot detect any burrs or anything from a previous owner dry firing. have a .22 chamber iron on the way.

any ideas what may be causing this? i cleaned the chamber/bore thouroghly, and even tried running a jag with a patch covered w/ flitz in the chamber to try and polish it out, but that didnt help.

hoping i dont need to buy a new barrel. would like to be able to shoot the match ammo instead of the cheaper crap stuff.
 
#2
Re: new to me cz 452 wont extract match ammo

So this is a problem extracting UNFIRED rounds or FIRED brass?

My 452 American has a bit of a short chamber and it is very tight chambering CCI Subsonics. Have to use Standard Velocity with the shorter ogive.

-David
 
#4
Re: new to me cz 452 wont extract match ammo

Have you tried SK Jagd or Wolf ammo. These are not "waxy". You may have a bit of goop holding up the extractor and not letting it engage the rim. Have you tried cleaning the bolt face well and the extractor parts? Have you brushed out the extractor groove on the barrel? Is the extractor sharp. I have seen a CZ Scout that had spotty extraction when new but did fine after a couple hundred rounds.
 
#5
Re: new to me cz 452 wont extract match ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you tried SK Jagd or Wolf ammo. These are not "waxy". You may have a bit of goop holding up the extractor and not letting it engage the rim. Have you tried cleaning the bolt face well and the extractor parts? Have you brushed out the extractor groove on the barrel? Is the extractor sharp. I have seen a CZ Scout that had spotty extraction when new but did fine after a couple hundred rounds. </div></div>

bolt is clean, why would the extractor ONLY hang up on coated rounds? and yes, wolf match was the first thing i tried and it is coated. thats when i found the problem.
 
#7
Re: new to me cz 452 wont extract match ammo

What uncoated ammo is it cycling fine with? The SK and Wolf I would describe as KY jelly type lubed as they are slick as an eel in a barrel of snot. The waxy types being RWS, Eley and various others not so match like CCI, Remington etc. Most have some kind of lube so I doubt that has anything to do with the problem. If you haven't stripped the bolt and cleaned behind the extractor and spring you might try that, if that has been done I would say you need a new extractor. If you can't see a peen mark on the rim of the chamber I doubt the chamber iron will do much good. I am not a gunsmith but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express for 3 nights back in September of '10
smile.gif
 
#9
Re: new to me cz 452 wont extract match ammo

OK all you have listed are lubed so you can rule that out. Domesttic is a go and foreign is a no go.
The problem is your extractor. It is not riding the extraction groove correctly for one reason or another or it may be misshapen, dull etc. As I say I am not a profesional and this is my best guess. Sounds like you need a gunsmith. A good one can probably fix it in 30 minutes or less.
 
#10
Re: new to me cz 452 wont extract match ammo

ok so lets get this straight... cci green tag subsonics, minimags, federal bulk winchester 555 are all NON coated, and extract no matter what

wolf match, extra match, rws, and sk are all coated and DONT extract.

dont think country of manufacture matters....

also, i am apprenticing under a gunsmith and neither he nor I can wrap our minds around this problem. hence coming to the hide for input.

since it extracts the non coated ammo fine, i have ruled out needing a new extractor, but one is on its way to try. looking at the extractor it looks damn near new.
 
#11
Re: new to me cz 452 wont extract match ammo

Is there any discrepancy in rim thickness/diameter between the American stuff and the foreign. Just spitballin here.
The CCI ammo has a different kind of lube(hard wax, maybe like Lee alox) but make no mistake it is there. Some Federal has a dry lube. In hindsight this could be a factor I suppose but I would think this would be incidental to the real problem.
If I was home I could do some measuring, my curiosity is piqued.
 
#12
Re: new to me cz 452 wont extract match ammo

My cz 452 has a tight chamber. When I tryed it with stingers it did once and a while not extract, and afer fireing 300-500 rounds or so without cleaning it sometimes starts not extracting.
 
#13
Re: new to me cz 452 wont extract match ammo

update... its been a while since i have tried match ammo because of my problems before... i just got home from the FD and ran laupua master M, Eley prime, RWS target rifle, and wolf match target and it extracted and ejected all just fine. now i am wonder if my problem isnt extraction after they have been fired. maybe running several hundred federal through it eliminated the problem? will have to try to get to the range today and shoot some off and see. will post an update after i shoot.
 
#14
Re: new to me cz 452 wont extract match ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you tried SK Jagd or Wolf ammo. These are not "waxy". You may have a bit of goop holding up the extractor and not letting it engage the rim. Have you tried cleaning the bolt face well and the extractor parts? Have you brushed out the extractor groove on the barrel? Is the extractor sharp. <span style="color: #CC0000">I have seen a CZ Scout that had spotty extraction when new but did fine after a couple hundred rounds.</span> </div></div>
 
#15
Re: new to me cz 452 wont extract match ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you tried SK Jagd or Wolf ammo. These are not "waxy". You may have a bit of goop holding up the extractor and not letting it engage the rim. Have you tried cleaning the bolt face well and the extractor parts? Have you brushed out the extractor groove on the barrel? Is the extractor sharp. <span style="color: #CC0000">I have seen a CZ Scout that had spotty extraction when new but did fine after a couple hundred rounds.</span> </div></div> </div></div>

this rifle was by no means new when i got it and already had several hundred possible a few thousand rounds through it. all bulk pack stuff though... since this gun is suppressed i may try to fire it in my back yard into a sand trap today and see if it will extract.
 
#16
Re: new to me cz 452 wont extract match ammo

so here is the test

wolf match 3 out of 5 ejected both had to be pried out
eley prim 4 out of 5 had to be pried out
lapua master 4 out of 5 (kicked out on second bolt throw)
rws 3 out of 5 both had to be pried out

next round
wolf match 5 out of 5
wolf match rapid 10 for 10
eley prime 10 for 10
rws 9 for 10 (the one kicked out when i ran the bolt a second time)
lapua master 10 for 10

maybe this problem has resolved itself? problem is i am wasting the boxs i got to see what ammo the gun liked... guess i will have to pick up some more if it doesnt like wolf match (got a brick)

finished the rest of the box of wolf match target went 25 for 25 w/ 2 duds but still extracted the nonfired rounds.


WOO HOO. if it runs through another 100 or so rounds w/out an extraction problem i might just be able to run match ammo at my nex appleseed... going to put the rifle and ammo (25 rounds) outside in the cold for a few hours and see if i get any failures that way because it will be cold.

still wanting to discuss this, but i think it may be a non issue now.
 
#17
Re: new to me cz 452 wont extract match ammo

JACQ:

I'd just shoot whatever is cheapest. I've been an Appleseed instructor for about 1.5 years and I've yet to find anyone that can outshoot Federal bulk pack from Appleseed positions. Sure, we haven't had any Olympic biatholon guys come through our course here in New Mexico that I know of but if the ammo goes bang, it'll shoot way better than 4 MOA which is all we need for AS.

I shot my Rifleman score at my first Appleseed with Federal Bulk. Most folks do the same. GOOD ammo in Appleseed land is Federal Auto Match.

-David
Edgewood, NM
 
#18
Re: new to me cz 452 wont extract match ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nmmi9100</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JACQ:

I'd just shoot whatever is cheapest. I've been an Appleseed instructor for about 1.5 years and I've yet to find anyone that can outshoot Federal bulk pack from Appleseed positions. Sure, we haven't had any Olympic biatholon guys come through our course here in New Mexico that I know of but if the ammo goes bang, it'll shoot way better than 4 MOA which is all we need for AS.

I shot my Rifleman score at my first Appleseed with Federal Bulk. Most folks do the same. GOOD ammo in Appleseed land is Federal Auto Match.

-David
Edgewood, NM </div></div>

i hear ya, but its more than just the appleseed. this rifle is a trainer and i run it out to 200 yards often... accuracy goes to shit at 175 when the rounds go subsonic. my 10/22 w/ match ammo can get good training in at 300 yards (wind calls mostly) because the round never transitions to subsonic. my buddies cz 452 w/ match ammo can stay on a 12x12 steel plate 100 percent of the time at 300 when he does his part w/ wind calls. i am stuck at 175. hence wanting this thing to shoot match ammo. appreciate the input, will probably run bulk pack for the cost anyways, even though it is nice to see this thing start extracting the match stuff.
 
#19
Re: new to me cz 452 wont extract match ammo

ok last 25 rounds after leaving 25 rounds loaded in the magazine outside, one 5 round mag burried in the snow. 25 rounds in the box. one failure to extract (had to be pried out) which was the very first round that went into a warm chamber and sat in it as things cooled off.

everything was left outside (25 degrees) for a little over an hour, and no problems minus the one. even the 5 round mag that was burried in the snow worked fine.

the last two times i tried match ammo it was really cold both times, like in the teens, so i am thinking that the lube coating on match ammo just doesnt like the cold. i guess thats the problem. will have to redo this test when its warm outside and theoretically i shouldnt even have ONE fte.

thanks for the help.
 
#21
Re: new to me cz 452 wont extract match ammo

im having the same issue with my brno model 2 which is virtually the same i think it has something to do with the groove in the action when u pull the bolt back it hits this groove and the round flings out, in theory that's whats meant to happen in actual its getting there and not hitting but this is only with the magazine in if i take the mag out i can load a single load and it pulls back and ejects happily it has nothing to do with the chamber from what i can see its when the bolt is cycled back to the ejection lug in the action itself

hope this helps im wondering what i can do to fix it
 
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