NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

[jb1000br]

There is no such thing as a dumb question (except when the answer can be found with a simple (but really not so simple) forum search

Hah! forum humor...

Anyway, for those considering, thinking, pondering taking on tactical shooting and/or competitions what are the initial first thoughts/questions that come to mind.

Questions on equipment, optics, practice, etc.

The reason for this question will be revealed at a later date.

Thanks for your input.

JB

p.s. - if you are too embarrassed to post here, please pm me your input, or if you are not a registered member, shoot me an email: jb1000br @ yahoo . com

 

[Rarebreed93]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

I for one have never seen a competition, so I wonder if my Optics, (SA BDC) practice, (I have lots of 100yd) & dope, (Only dope is on box of ammo)would even get me started.
I would love to spend a day and practice at 2, 4, 6, & 1000yds. with someone that's in the know.

 

[Rich Emmons]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

I never like guessing during a match, therefore I want to feel comfortable that no matter how far the target is, that i have shot that yardage with my load, recently, near the same conditions as the match site conditions.
So, No. 1 good dope for range and conditions.(temp, altitude,etc.)
This means go out and fire from 10yds to 1100 yds and make sure you know your come-ups don't rely on a printout from JBM the night before.

now assuming you can trust your gear which is key..

Next I would say, having some sort of idea of what to expect from the match would be nice, every match is different, so what are my weakness, i.e., positional shooting, and how much will it be exposed, therefore, practicing getting into positions, dry firing are key practice routines.

Other than that, you just gotta say fuck it, just go out and compete, know that you can pull the trigger as good as anyone out there but take it as a learning experience, and don't get down when you miss easy targets, it's as much a mental game, stay positive and make every shot count and you will end up on top and fall in love with the Tactical shooting game.

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

Big +1 for what Rich said. Know your dope and have a scope that you can accuratly apply you adjustments to. It can be a $300 scope or the top of the line. It is a huge mental game, so don't sike yourself out. The best thing to do it just go out and shoot a match. Ask lots of questions and have fun. Once you shoot one and learn a few things, the next match becomes less overwhelming. It's my drug of choice!

 

[Pat M]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

Just go. ask other competitors questions and 9/10 they will happily help you out with pointers on anything, dope, wind, range, etc.

 

[Cserv]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

Is the equip. I have good enough to take to a comp? How do they run? What type of prep, both physical and gear wise?

 

[Topstrap]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

This is directed more towards Rarebreed but can include anyone else near these ranges.

There are two good ranges here in Ohio that I'm sure you've read about on here but only one is geared more towards "tactical" style of shooting.

http://www.raynersrange.com/ Steel plates out to 1000 yards.

http://thundervalleyprecision.com/ Steel out thru 1165 and also a 1 mile target. Geared more towards tactical shooting.

Me and a few shooting buds do venture out to Rayners quite often for a practice session and would be glad to shoot with ya there and offer any help. We're not "tactical" style shooters but do know how to hit the long plates with subpar equipment so we have to try harder

.

You don't have to have the best stuff right off to have fun and learn from each outing. Like the others have said, get out and ask questions, meet others to share info with and see what they shoot and how they do it.

Topstrap

 

[nutzo396]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

Arrived at Riede Range in the spring the day before the match with a new rifle,minimal load development,torqued my scope down the night before ( thanks for the backorder on the rings Sinclair Intl ), Shot in the snow at Riede to confirm dope and started the match the next day only to finish next to last ( the other guy left after the first day ).....Had a BLAST! I'm totally addicted. My advise is to just go. Even if you make a fool of yourself (like me) you are still going to learn SO MUCH from all the other competitors. Ask lots of questions. The guys at the matches all love to shoot and are eager to help you out.( Thanks GRAHAM, 19SCOUT77, JBONEY, ECT... ).

PS. See you at the BASH. I'll be the one with the stupid look on his face asking lots of questions.

Cheers!
Stiggy

 

[hugo121175]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

As a NewBe the first thing that comes to mind is "Where to shoot". I live in the liberal strong hold of New York. I have had a hard time finding comps and ranges that are close to home for me to shoot over 200 yards. I do have family in Maryland and this had allowed me to drive out to TVP this past Labor Day week-end for their NewBe Shoot. Also since then I have since joined Reade Range in Western PA, but still have not had time to take the 5 hour drive out there.
Next would be sighting in and checking dope on a range that is above my comfort zone. At TVP I did get to ring the 1750 with my 338LM, so that raised my comfort zone a bit. The problem is I almost NEVER get to shoot at a gange over 200 yards.
Last thing on my mind is equipment. I have faith in the manufactures of the equipment that I buy, and in my smith to get it right the first time.
I hope all this helps.

Hugo

 

[jb1000br]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

Good stuff so far. This is what I am looking for. Basically, "What questions are lingering in the minds of newbies." Thanks so far.

JB

 

[JC Steel]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

I would say these three questions come to mind

-Do I now where my bullet should hit at extended ranges? In other words have I had a chance or opportunity to verify my drop.

-What kind of practice can I do in my home or at my range?

-Do I have the neccessary equipment to compete with the other competitors?

 

[Moose72]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

Isn't tactical more then long distance shooting?? I thought it was pistol, shotgun and rifle, or am I thinking of some other competitons??

I know when my gun gets finshed being built, I want to try some F-class comps..

 

[snipedogg]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

I think another big lingering question with newbies is if their caliber of gun is capable. I know that was my big worry because all I had was a .308 competing at distances out to 1000yds. My first match was actually a 1K match. I learned a lot from just going and shooting it and at the end of the day I came to the realization that no matter what caliber I was using, I first needed to just keep shooting these matches and learn how to perfect my shooting before I thought about switching to another caliber or gun. I have no regret in looking like the newbie that I was at the time. Anybody new to the sport will soon realize that everybody is eager to help and teach people that want to get into this type of shooting. We've all been the newbie at one point. There is no better way to learn than going out and doing it. You can read this entire site up and down but you still have to go and learn and I think that is the best thing anybody new to this can do.

 

[desertHK]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

Like the Nike commercial. Just do it.

 

[Graham]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

I agree with Stiggy above: the most important thing is to show up.

Most of the questions I get asked from new people are related to confidence: Am I good enough to compete in a match? Will I make a fool of myself in that company? What if I don't know how to do something that I am asked to do on a stage?

If you are asking those questions you are ready to take the next step, mix it up, and compete. If you are new to competition, and a bit tentative, then say so and most match directors will squad you with your friends or with a more experienced shooter who is willing to shoot beside you and help you out.

 

[Oddball Six]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

At the risk of embarassing myself by exposing my own deficiencies in this area (hey we dont all have the chance to spend time in uniform, military or LE, for some of us just getting trigger time is hard-fought, hard-won, and expensive to build skill).

I am self-aware enough to know my limitations and the woeful inadequacy of my ability to apply my theoretical knowledge with the long guns. My proficiency on handguns is quite a different story but the same skills do not easily translate.

I do fine applying fundamentals when it is me on a range, and when I owned it, could apply my 5R to yield .4 to .45 MOA groups with no time pressure at 100 yards. The longest range I shoot locally is 225 so thats a problem and then i have zero experience with applying these skills in a competition context.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jb1000br</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Anyway, for those considering, thinking, pondering taking on tactical shooting and/or competitions what are the initial first thoughts/questions that come to mind.</div></div>

How bad will it suck when I embarass myself by confirming everyone else's instant judgement that I am mediocre compared to them?

How does one make effective practice for this kind of thing given that really the only way to go from staid paper practice to a competitive level is to compete and go through question 1?

What kinds of dry fire drills, etc, help with bolt action and carbine rifle skills? I compete with handguns and this whole rifle thing is taking quite a bit of adjustment. Many of my training strategies don't seem to work as well with this platform because you just cant do a very good job of simulating it. 1 MOA at 30 feet (my dry fire range in my basement against a 8" concrete wall backed by nothing but dirt) is just .104 inches. My printer cant scale targets that low and even if it could , not a whole lot of optics will allow focus that close to bring the optic to bear on it effectively.

Is there any benefit to observing a few matches before you jump in with both feet? E.g. The SHC would be a big platform to embarass one's self on but it would be great to see how it all works, follow a shooter or two through the whole process and see how the whole thing sets up and what to expect.

 

[McLarenross]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

I did what everyone else has said. Just went to one and tried it out. I dint do the best but I didnt do the worst either. I had a great time and met a bunch of great people who gave me some really really good advise and schooling on what I was doing wrong and right. I placed 3rd in that comp and am shooting my second one tomorrow and cant wait. My first one taught me what other gear I need and what gear I thought I needed and really didn't need. I feel good about tomorrow.

 

[sinister]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree with Stiggy above: the most important thing is to show up.

Most of the questions I get asked from new people are related to confidence: Am I good enough to compete in a match? Will I make a fool of myself in that company? What if I don't know how to do something that I am asked to do on a stage?

If you are asking those questions you are ready to take the next step, mix it up, and compete. If you are new to competition, and a bit tentative, then say so and most match directors will squad you with your friends or with a more experienced shooter who is willing to shoot beside you and help you out.
</div></div>

Absolutely!

Kids learn languages quicker because they have no sense of what's embarrassing or not.

Who cares how well you shoot in your first match except you? You can only get better.

DO IT.

 

[Lucks]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

Some of my newbie questions were....
Do I have to carry all my gear through each stage or just to each stage?
Will I need binoculars?
Does the posted round count for a match mean thats how many bullets you need if you don't miss at all or does it factor in ammo for all my misses?
How many magazines and what capacity do I need?
Is there any equipment not allowed?
Will I get to use a range finder?
What can I do that will make me look even more like a dumb ass than missing?

 

[sniperaviator]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

How big are the targets? Not just for shooting, but for ranging. My Nikon 1200 won't range 10" steel much past 400 yards.

 

[blakheaven]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

Well I never shot tactical competitions so I can rattle a few questions off. First is how are matches classified ie are there different type of tactical competitions? Also how is the judging done on a tactical range for example do you have to be extra sneaky when hitting the target, or what do you have to do different than just hit the target in normal competitions? Also what is competitive cause before I compete in anything I want to practice and think of myself competitive before I show up cause I like to win (not saying I am a sore loser just that I have no desire to embarrass myself)

 

[sled_mack]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

I haven't shot in a tactical match, but I want to make a point of trying it next year.

Problem 1, for me, is finding a place to shoot that I can get dope out to 1000 yards. I think the frustration level would be really high going without good dope. Around here, the longest range I've got access to is 300 yards.

That leads into problem 2 - most of the matches I see listed here are a few states away. The cost/logistics add to the hesitation of diving in.

One question I have is on the stage timing. I'm guessing that time is factored into scoring, but I don't know? As a newbee, I'd rather have be slow on shot prep and have hits than rush and more misses. But if the timing is such that it is a cut off (ie. shot in 60 seconds or no shot allowed) then I might not get as much out of it.

The last issue would be finding a team mate if it's a team match, or even getting put into a squad. Some people are there to win. I wouldn't want to be paired up with someone like that. Not that I'm not going to try my best, but I have realistic expectations of how well I might do when I'm just getting started. When I started IDPA this year, the RO told me this "if you finish the day without a safety DQ, consider it a great day and forget about your score". I've improved a lot over the summer, but I started slow, and it was a few matches before I started seeing improvement. I imagine this all has a similar learning curve?

Personally, physical conditioning is a big question too. I'm just about to turn 42, mildly overweight, and have arthirtis in my knee. If the match is more physical "run and gun" than I might not be able to finish. So physical conditioning is one of my goals for this winter.

Bottom line - I need to find a match within a reasonable driving disantce next year and just go try it.

 

[sled_mack]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

JB - I didn't mean to kill your thread with my last post...

You said the reason for the post would be revealed at a later date. Is that date getting close?

 

[Wicked Weapons]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stiggy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My advise is to just go. Even if you make a fool of yourself (like me) you are still going to learn SO MUCH from all the other competitors. Ask lots of questions. The guys at the matches all love to shoot and are eager to help you out.</div></div>

DO THIS. Follow Stiggy's lead.

Last year I decided I wanted to start shooting NRA/CMP High Power Service Rifle. I live in Ohio and Camp Perry is within reasonable driving distance. I signed up for the Small Arms Firing School at the National Matches at Camp Perry. It was a fantastic intro program. Plenty of opportunity to learn, watch, shoot and ask a million questions of experienced shooters. It's a model program for initial instruction to any new shooting dicipline. Just for the experience I also shot the Presidents 100 on Monday. Didn't make the President's 1,000, but I didn't care. I learned a lot, everyone was friendly and provided assistance. It was fun.

Unfortunately, there is extremely little opportunity to get formal 200, 300 & 600 yd range time to practice where I'm located. Camp Perry isn't open except a few times per year for matches. I also didn't have connections to other local shooters and was mostly on my own. Thats pretty much killed the getting "Distinguished" dream for me. Without a place to shoot and people to shoot with - nothing else matters. End of story.

Fortunately, I discovered SH and two other places to shoot - Thunder Valley Precision and Rayners. Guess I will shoot steel targets instead of bullseyes - because that's what I can get the opportunity to shoot. They are about the same distance as Camp Perry but are open all the time. I made an exploratory trip to TVP last month and liked what I saw. Haven't been to Rayners yet. I'm building a rifle, developing a load and dope, and doing some research. Then I plan on just showing up and shooting. Hopefully there will be more experienced shooters to steer me in the right direction.

Ultimately for me the "new shooter" match question is not about which rifle or scope to use, what caliber, or which bullet. It's about where can I get range time to shoot & practice; and who's there to assist me so I can learn the game? That's where all my questions should get answered. Then attending a Tactical Match with confidence should be a no-brainer.

 

[Slowstang]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

As a newbie my questions/ thoughts have been:

Because right now I cannot afford a high-end optic will I not be taken as serious as the guys with $3k optic?

and

Can I get help with my shooting fundamentals/ critiqued at a practice session 1 on 1 instead of in the middle of a match someone saying hey try shooting like this..

and

Can someone help me with calling wind! So I know when I miss its my poor shooting instead of wondering "was that my wind call or my trigger pull?" (On small targets at 500 yards on a windy day or changing wind conditions at 1k)

-Slow (I dont mean to sound like im complaining or whining, those are just my questions i've thought of..)

 

[Rob01]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich Emmons</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This means go out and fire from 10yds to 1100 yds and make sure you know your come-ups don't rely on a printout from JBM the night before.

</div></div>

In a perfect world yes but not everyone has access to an 1100 yard range to get data. If you only have a 100 or 200 yard range then get good chrono and bullet data, good sight above bore height, figure the conditions you will be shooting in from a weather report of the match site, elevation at site and run charts on JBM.

I have never had it be off more than about .2 mils and that was at near 1000 and most of the times it's closer to .1 mils if off at all. I run for varying temps in a 40 degree span, 400 yard zero for hold over and under drills, and a close card for 1-20 yards.

JBM has always done well with me as I don't have access to any range over 400 yards and for a couple of years only had 200.

 

[gugubica]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

OK, for what its worth...

My first major match was the SH Cup, start big right?

I had a new caliber when I went, I had exactly ten rounds down the barrel when I jumped in the truck and headed to Texas.

My thoughts before were mostly dirrected to equipment, what to bring and what to leave at home, how should I carry it, do I need a belt setup, or a vest, or a pack?

I was not real worried about if I was up to snuff (I assumed I wasn't) or if I would be embarased (I don't embarase easily) or if other competitors would look down their noses at me (I really didn't give a shit).

As it turns out, the lack of data was not to big of a deal. Ballistic FTE got me real close. Lack of cold bore data hurt on only 2 stages, not a huge deal.

I carried to much crap the first day, not a big deal, just left some stuff in the room the next two days.

The other competitors were friendly and helpful. They were all extremely professional and I had an enormass amount of fun.

I wound up finishing in the top 50% which I was very pleased with, all things considered. I am still in awe of the ability of the shooters there.

Basically, anything I was worried about either worked out or was sorted out. Don't let anything keep you from diving in and trying a competition. I have yet to come accross anyone that had a bad experience to the point that they did not want to go to more matches.

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

Just get out there and try it!!! As long as you practice safe handling of firearms you will be fine. Almost all competitors will be more than helpful. we all have a first match, if you have a descent drop chart, something to carry your ammo you will be fine. the best way to learn what you need is to get out there and just do it. trust me you will find you don't have to have the best of everything, just has to be functional.

 

[sled_mack]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich Emmons</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This means go out and fire from 10yds to 1100 yds and make sure you know your come-ups don't rely on a printout from JBM the night before.

</div></div>

In a perfect world yes but not everyone has access to an 1100 yard range to get data. If you only have a 100 or 200 yard range then get good chrono and bullet data, good sight above bore height, figure the conditions you will be shooting in from a weather report of the match site, elevation at site and run charts on JBM.

I have never had it be off more than about .2 mils and that was at near 1000 and most of the times it's closer to .1 mils if off at all. I run for varying temps in a 40 degree span, 400 yard zero for hold over and under drills, and a close card for 1-20 yards.

JBM has always done well with me as I don't have access to any range over 400 yards and for a couple of years only had 200. </div></div>

I keep wondering if I need a chrono. In the context of reloading, I keep talking myself out of it - if I focus on accuracy, rather than the fastest possible load, I don't really need it. But, lacking any real long range places to test load data locally, the chrono would serve a good purpose for input data into JBM. I might talk myself into one yet.

 

[Rob01]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

A chrono would definitely help you out in that situation. Get a good one that you can trust. I wouldn't recommend a Chrony.

 

[hugo121175]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sled</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich Emmons</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This means go out and fire from 10yds to 1100 yds and make sure you know your come-ups don't rely on a printout from JBM the night before.

</div></div>

In a perfect world yes but not everyone has access to an 1100 yard range to get data. If you only have a 100 or 200 yard range then get good chrono and bullet data, good sight above bore height, figure the conditions you will be shooting in from a weather report of the match site, elevation at site and run charts on JBM.

I have never had it be off more than about .2 mils and that was at near 1000 and most of the times it's closer to .1 mils if off at all. I run for varying temps in a 40 degree span, 400 yard zero for hold over and under drills, and a close card for 1-20 yards.

JBM has always done well with me as I don't have access to any range over 400 yards and for a couple of years only had 200. </div></div>

I keep wondering if I need a chrono. In the context of reloading, I keep talking myself out of it - if I focus on accuracy, rather than the fastest possible load, I don't really need it. But, lacking any real long range places to test load data locally, the chrono would serve a good purpose for input data into JBM. I might talk myself into one yet. </div></div>

I bought a chrono here on the Hide for cheap.... It was worth the $60 to know just how fast my loads are. In the books my loads should have been pushing 3050fps for my .338LM, but when I chrono-ed it was only 2915fps. It was good to know when using ExBal on my PDA (Also bought here on the Hide).....

Hugo

 

[locked&loaded]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

I've never been to a match at all. I would love to get into it though.
My concerns would be...
What will be required of me during the different stages of a match?
Is my equipment going to good enough?
Am I going to be shunned for not running top $$ equipment?
Not having shot out to 1k. Only shot out to 500 so far.
Having to travel to get to a shoot and cost of travel.
What type of self training should I do to prepair?

I plan to attend some type of tactical rifle shoot in the near future.
If for no other reason than to see how things opperate.

 

[ScottS1W]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

I am signed up for Mammoth(notice I didn't say ready) and am concerned about the embarrassing possibilities.
Here's where I am having NFG questions:
A. Zero'd at 200yds my JBM Data is high in MOAs .5 @ 300yds, 1.1 @ 400, .5 @ 500 and zeros with my hits @ 650. What will happen beyond 650yds? Is this normal? Can I adjust something to get JBM "on" for my loads. Is this as good as it gets?
B. I am ranging a list of items I've measured, Pick up truck tire rim, 50 gallon barrel height, Auto License plate, man height IDPA target size and started to practice with my MOA reticle. It's working, confirmed by LRF! Now what? What items do we have to know the sizes of in a real match? How do I practice ranging for a match?
C. How do I get the average elevation of my next match location?
D. My scope is MOA/MOA. Will a Mildot Master help me or make for more math in my head?

 

[Trapshooter12]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

I was going to post on this yesterday but the damn site locked up on me and wouldn't let me send it.

The short of it is. Don't let nothing but fear scare you from going and shooting at an event...

Everyone starts out as a noob on everything they do. As far as your ability your never going to know how good you are or your shortcomings until you shoot aginst better shooters. Since I shoot alot of Trap and all shooting Venues parrallel each other heres a good example of equipment.

I have seen guys shooting Field 870 Shotguns beat guys that have spent their kids inheritance on 20K Perrazzi's trying to buy a win. No matter how much money they could spend on equipment they still sucked.

It's not the Arrow that makes the shot it's the Indian shooting the Arrow that counts.

Go and have FUN.

I haven't been shooting Rifle matches much, but I haven't met a bad person yet. Every question I have asked has been answered. Infact when some guys have had mechanical problems someone has always produced another Rifle so they can finish the event.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

As a novice, I have shot a grand total of 2 matches. I have some insights that I have gleaned from shooting and from watching other people shoot.

First, in the comps that I have been in, the time constraints that are put on the stages can be very restricting. Being able to get settled and get shots off quickly is at a premium. I have a gun that is not really conducive to that (Long Action, heavy recoil, no magazine), but I have been able to do ok on quick time stages. I get points for my hits, but I rarely get all the shots off.

Second, there is no reason to be preoccupied with the thought that you have to have lots of experience at 1000. The comps that I have been to don't have many shots at 1000. You can use the JBM type calculators to get you pretty close, and you will usually get more than 1 shot at targets out there, so you can adjust after your first shot.

Third, people are nice and will answer questions if you ask them. They are also concerned with what they are doing and probably won't even notice how you are doing.

Last, and most importantly, shooting is fun.

 

[D_TROS]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

As far as a tactical match, I have never been, but I really want to. My experience is this past summer in my first ever benchrest match (as that was the closest thing to a match to me.) I had a bone stock rem 700 police in .308 with a loopy 6-20x50. Not a single person there shot anything near a factory rifle (most were 6ppc's and 30 BR's) or anything with less than a 36 power scope. It was shooting for score and you shoot 5 times and take a break. Anyways, my recticle fell outta my scope and I couldnt even hit the paper. A guy lent me one of his back ups, let me borrow his ammo, and I finished the match (dead last) but it was fun and everyone was super understanding of all my questions. One guy even offered to let me shoot his equipment for the next match a few months later.

I get that this not a tactical match, but I would bet my last dollar there would be the same great people as at the benchrest match. Now, I just need to go to a tactical match where my equipment is better suited!!

My questions would be on how to accurately adjust the scope (and remember it for repeatability) for dope and get back to the "zero" witout screwing it up, as well as general required ezuipment for each match.

 

[Outback]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

Going to a precision rifle cl,ass is also a great idea.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

As stated by others above, JUST GO. No question about that.

Now the other thoughts that I have, regarding the putting on of a match, is equipment.

I was able to finally attend my first comp this past summer. It was put on by PGW, and was an F-Class competition. Me, not knowing from Shinola, was thinking "Canadian Cup/Bash" similarities. And with the gamut of offerings that PGW put's out, my Crusader would be at the very least, equivalent in the runnings. I was wrong, (in their eyes). Practically everyone else there, had equipment on a whole different spectrum than mine. Such as:
Single shot receivers,
Drill Pipe Barrels,
Hubble Scopes,
Independent Front Suspension, A-Frame, Infinitely adjustable Fore-rests,
Rear-rests that could double as a Danforth Anchor,
And the childs jogging stroller converted into a "rolling armory" to carry all this stuff to the line.

Now, nearly everyone there had said that "If you want to continue in this game, you're going to want to pull that barrel off, and put on a longer one." Next, "you're probably going to want to go to a better receiver, and Single Shots are better". "Keep saving up, and get yourself a better scope, if you want to be able to keep up" was another thing.

All's fine and good, IF and only IF I wanted to continue to play that game. I don't. I'm wanting Cup/Bash type scenario's, and I'm intending to do it myself, if no-one else around here does this. This is because:
My Crusader was able to perform better than I was,
--72 5V at 800 yds (out of 75) was my opening string.
My Millett TRS-1 performed perfectly fine at all distances (to 1k)
My Harris/Phoenix performed admirably, and was not 'non-plussed' in any way.
My Tactical Milk-Crate carried everything I needed. Wasn't as fancy as everyone else's, yet I needed that to carry all my crap in anyways. Walking with a cane kinda limits your "stealthiness" not to mention your adeptability. (I invent words that fit)

My point being, for all this blathering diatribe, is that equipment necessity/requirements should be both Posted as well as Limiting, in my opinion. I really do want to try out the Unknown Distance targets, as well as the 1 MOA or even 1/2 MOA targets at unknown ranges.
As well as the Varying Direction and/or Varying Angle targets. It is these things that I'm really wanting to do. And, it is these things that I'm trying to gear my stuff towards. The ABILITY to drive my stuff, to do these varying things. As opposed to "building a custom singleshot rifle with a separate suspension system and a barrel long enough to touch the target so that there is powder burns on the paper at these structured ranges where everyone is in line and all shooting at the same time, and being timed."

So yeah, equipment being one thing, structure and format being another.

Cup, Bash, ASC. From what I can tell, these are "Tactical Matches" and are definitely interesting.

It just seems that no-one in Canada is interested. I will say this though, almost all the guys whom I met were incredibly friendly, and helpful to a fault. No issue there in any way. One is a member here.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

Will we get credit as contributors for the book?

Actually, my original question before my first comp was "am I going to look like a fool?"
-new guys need reassurance that as long as they can handle their rifle safely, and its up to the minimum requirements of the task, its all up from there

 

[sled_mack]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Will we get credit as contributors for the book?

Actually, my original question before my first comp was "am I going to look like a fool?"
-new guys need reassurance that as long as they can handle their rifle safely, <span style="font-weight: bold">and its up to the minimum requirements of the task</span>, its all up from there


</div></div>

The part in bold is the tough part.

When I finally get to my first match, I'll have confidence in my ability to be safe. But for where I live, I won't likely have the opportunity to put my rifle thru it's paces before a match. I'll have to hope that my research before buying has lead me down the right path. And then I'll have to just hope that the online training here, along with practice at limited ranges, and everything else I can read, will tranlate to "my rifle and me" being up to the task.

But there is no way to know if you (and your equipment) are ready without just jumping in. Research, buy accordingly, practice to the extent you can, and go find out where your shortcomings are in the match environment. Unless you have the terrain to set up a practice comp on your own, I see no other way?

I think showing up with an attitude to learn and enjoy the match will be the most important things for the day.

 

[fatboytruckin]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

If you can find a way to swing it, the Sporting Rifle match held monthly at Raton is a great place to start. Just show up with a rifle you are confident with and some ammo and shoot. The entry fee is a pittance and no one there will poke fun at you. Great place to find out if you're up to it before you spend four grand for the equipment necessary to compete. It's also a great chance to look around and see some of this stuff in action and get a feel for what works and what may work for you. You'll learn more by jumping in and doing it than from any desktop commando on the web!

 

[DoubleBarrel]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

this is great info. as a newb myself i have the same questions. can a 308 compete?

 

[sturkis]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

I learned a long time ago that No One cares how bad you shoot!! They only care how good you shoot. The only person you should be wanting to beat is yourself. If you hit 5 targets your first time try to hit 6 the next. Also remember No One wins all the time. We have all been beaten and we have all beaten someone else. Go out and have fun doing it. Learn from others and yourself. But most of all have fun. When you stop having fun then it is like doing work you dont get paid for!!!

 

[Pat M]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

The best part is: (if you practice & participate) eventually you will

1: get best cold bore shot (i suck at cold bore shots but after about 20 matches i did)
2: best group
3: Winner (may not be the top shoots but the stars will aline)
4: learn a lot about yourself & shooting (always)

 

[texasvmi]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

I am a competition Neewbie. However, I'm not new to shooting. My questions have little to do with equipment. I will bring what I have. If I needed something, I'll take note to pick it up at a later date. I have a good idea of my limitations and confidence in my equipment. If there is a doubt in my mind, that equipment gets left behind and I go with what I know. I will ask, at the competition, about anything I am unsure of.

My Newbie Questions are:
1. If moving targets will be in a course of fire, how is it best to practice without the advantage of a moving target range?

2. Is the stated round count the minimum number needed to complete the competition? Is there a restriction to bringing more than the stated count?

3. How is the competition scored? Accuracy, of course, is paramount, but are you timed from occupying a position to trigger break? Are reengagements allowed?

I am confident all my questions will be answered in my first few comps. Question #3 will change from match to match. This is why I will be a question asking fool when I get to the range.

Thank You!
texasvmi

 

[Unknown]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

Many competitions use different scoring methods. Knowing how the scoring system works will help you do much better. Some methods reward accuracy, others reward speed. If you ask some of the more experienced shooters, they will usually explain how to use the system to your advantage.

Usually, the required rounds is the minimum needed if you don't miss. Some courses of fire though will specify that you may only shoot X number of rounds. So again, know the scoring system.

It is hard to practice for moving targets without having a moving target range. Many sniper manuals will show the different leads at various distances for walking, or running targets. If your range has target pits that are safe for people to pull targets or be in the pit area while you shoot, and will allow it, you can have a friend put a cardboard target onto a long pole and walk back and forth in the pits while you shoot at the target.

Find out about the methods commonly used for shooting moving targets. Then pick the one that you are most comfortable with. Constant lead, ambush, and passing lead are pretty common methods.

There is a really good thread under Bolt rifles, I think it is the 7th thread from the top with answers to many questions and lots of helpful stuff.

 

[jwoolf]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

It's really prett hard to coax out the new guys to a match if they haven't had access to the long yardage ranges first.

I have a friend at work that hasn't come out and is completely intimidated at the thought of shooting a plate at 1000yds. He's also an avid hunter with his own deer lease. I've been working on him to come out to the range with me and shoot the long plates but, he's intimidated by the gear requirements at the moment and plans on setting up a 300wm before he even attempts to come out.

The fact is that you have to, for the most part, be a guy that loves to reload and tinker first, then you have to have the desire to work on the load and have a facility to work that load out to the long yardages.... AND, the guys that haven't done that yet know that most others already have done that. That is terrifying to a new shooter. They have more questions that answers about what caliber, will the bullet I have reach the target well? Worries about their optics... not knowing ANYTHING about the wind or come ups... no range card and, on and on.

It's really hard to get the new guys to even come out to the range when they know that their factory deer ammo may not even make it 1000yds. Most deer hunters tremble at the thought of trying to hit something at over 1/2 a mile away....

So, to me, it's a very difficult question indeed..... some guys that would really have a blast are even too intimidated to make the attempt to practice or even show up at a range... a competition is a whole other level of the same issue, IMHO.

I think the easiest way to get someone out is to offer up your equipment and experience to them. It's like handing a future junkie a crack pipe and telling them the first one is free. haha

For the really new guys, I'd say that the "long range clinic" is the first place to get them ( and it doesn't need to cost 500.00 either... it should be a range fee ). Sorry, I know this may be a little off topic but, there really is a terror factor for getting the new shooter involved.

Hell, shooting long range is a hobby more expenive than a bad golf addiction. It's expensive in both time and money to get any good at it. It takes knowing your equipment and loads and everything else. More than anything else, it take going out and doing over and over. The new shooter needs access to people that love it and also love helping the new shooter get started.

There was a guy at the range the other day with literally a range bag full of FGMM 175s and a good bolt gun and, we were shooting the 1000yd line and, he was wanting to move way up the range to shoot. After talking with him for a while and shooting some, he was coaxed to get his gun out ant try the 1000yd line. I didn't have to do much with him.... I told him to come up 36moa from his 100yd zero to start and, I gave him a wind correction and showed him what a mirage was and how to watch it..... put him on an IDPA size piece of steel and, once he hit it the first time, he did a happy dance and high fived everyone and told us he'd been wanting to try it but that he was too scared to try on his own.

 

[sled_mack]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

jwoolf,

Some good points about getting new guys out. For me, it's not fear or terror that keeps me from a match. It's more of an economics decision - if I go there with no dope from shooting my gun at those ranges, then I am going to spend the day wondering where my shots went. That's not going to help much with learning. If this area had better access to ranges that went out further, I could easily have good dope, based on shooting not based on a calculator, that could turn the match into a learning experience rather than a frustration experience.

However, I'm signed up for a spring class and I'm always looking for places to shoot longer distances. So, I'm working in the right direction.

But, good on your for bringing more people out and encouraging people you see at the range. I'm sure they appreciate it as much as I appreciate the help I get from some of my fellow shooters!

 

[jwoolf]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sled</div><div class="ubbcode-body">jwoolf,

Some good points about getting new guys out. For me, it's not fear or terror that keeps me from a match. It's more of an economics decision - if I go there with no dope from shooting my gun at those ranges, then I am going to spend the day wondering where my shots went. That's not going to help much with learning. If this area had better access to ranges that went out further, I could easily have good dope, based on shooting not based on a calculator, that could turn the match into a learning experience rather than a frustration experience.

However, I'm signed up for a spring class and I'm always looking for places to shoot longer distances. So, I'm working in the right direction.

But, good on your for bringing more people out and encouraging people you see at the range. I'm sure they appreciate it as much as I appreciate the help I get from some of my fellow shooters!
</div></div>

All very good points. It's very hard to get into unless you have someplace you can drive to and shoot regularly. Knowing your equipment is the biggest part of it ( working out a GOOD range card and log book is of the utmost importance ). Going out an shooting in the wind after that does the rest. ( a rangefinder and a kestrel don't hurt either ) All of that builds the confidence that the new shooter needs to feel confident in their equipment and ability. I think the point I was making is that even with the facility, there are some new guys too intimidated to even drag their equipment up to the line and try it unless somebody takes them under their wing, so to speak. I try to do that as much as possible.

The range I drive to is open so, If I'm shooting at the 1000yd line and a shooter drives up and wants to shoot at the 300yd line, either he has to wait on me to finish or I have to either shoot the 300yd line or wait for the other shooter or shooters to finish up. I always ask a bunch of questions etc and, if the shooter is interested in shooting the 1000yd line, I try to help. At the range I shoot at, you have to qualify to shoot the 1000yd line so they know you're not going to tear up the range or shoot over the berm and a LOT of the guys that come out and want to shoot closer have not qualified but, since I have, they are allowed to shoot with me. So, I always try to figure out which ones are interested in shooting that range and, I let them shoot the big piece of steel I always bring out there and a walk them onto the target and spot for them. Then I put them on my spotting scope and tell them to look 20' over the target and see if they can pick up the vapor trail of my shots going into the target and, by that time, they're usually completely hooked on the long shots. haha AND, they walk away with the dope they need to come back and qualify themselves. After all of that, I usually tell them to go to JBM ballistics and work out a range card based on their 1000yd come up and print it out and, they'll be on their way.

 

[eleaf]

Re: NEWBIE INPUT NEEDED - RE: Tactical matches etc

Not having access to a spotter who has a clue. There's nothing like throwing lead down range and not have a clue where it's going.

I've never been to a long distance range, so I have no DOPE, and no real clue how to get started with it any further than 300 yards, and no one to spot for me doesn't help in the motivation department.