Has anyone heard what, if anything, happened yesterday about Obama's proposed changes in NFA Trust rules?
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Suppressors news about NFA trust changes
- Thread starter Nukes
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I think none of us are replying because we all clicked into this thread hoping to hear some news. That or it's too tough to type with all our fingers crossed that we don't get royally screwed.
The public comment period ends Dec 9. Get your comments in! After that, ATF is supposed to address all comments and modify the proposed rule before final publication, which could take place at any time, really. After publication, the best chance to reverse changes is through the courts by proving that ATF failed to adequately react to public comments.
There are many sites that explain how to write your comments. Remember - Google is your friend!
There are many sites that explain how to write your comments. Remember - Google is your friend!
Apparently I was misinformed by one of my SOTs. Three different SOTs, three different stories from BATFE—who is surprised?
One of the SOTs said that BATFE would be finalizing the rules Dec 3rd.
This is the best I could find:
Many questions unanswered on NFA rule change as comment deadline approaches
Many questions unanswered on NFA rule change as comment deadline approaches - National gun rights | Examiner.com
One of the SOTs said that BATFE would be finalizing the rules Dec 3rd.
This is the best I could find:
Many questions unanswered on NFA rule change as comment deadline approaches
Many questions unanswered on NFA rule change as comment deadline approaches - National gun rights | Examiner.com
NRA and American Silencer Association both say comment period ends Monday the 9th
I have submitted and have been trying to spread the word
I have submitted and have been trying to spread the word
I just put three in --everyone in my trust. I didn't even know about this ATF comment thing until just now!!! I had written all my congress creeps though, not that it'll do any good for the two senators we have here.
I can't imagine there being that many "pro" comments --people don't really get worked up over anti ideas. I'd be willing to bet 90% or more of the comments will be against this rule.
I really hope this goes away. I'm regulated to death as it is, I feel like I have to ask permission, in triplicate and signed off by some agency, just to take a piss in the US anymore.
That American Silencer Association is a good link to use, fast and simple. No excuse not to do it.
I can't imagine there being that many "pro" comments --people don't really get worked up over anti ideas. I'd be willing to bet 90% or more of the comments will be against this rule.
I really hope this goes away. I'm regulated to death as it is, I feel like I have to ask permission, in triplicate and signed off by some agency, just to take a piss in the US anymore.
That American Silencer Association is a good link to use, fast and simple. No excuse not to do it.
I just sent my comments via the links below
The Obama administration, via the BATFE, has proposed a new rule governing applications by legal entities such as trusts and corporations to make and transfer National Firearms Act (NFA) firearms. The proposed rule would significantly complicate transfers of NFA firearms to legal entities. The comment period is coming to a close Monday at 11:59 pm and this is your last opportunity to comment. Comment here: Regulations.gov
Time is almost up on contacting the BATFE on a proposed change to the rules for Class III items (machine guns, silencers, short barreled rifles, etc.) The proposed rule change could make the already difficult task of getting a tax stamp to purchase a Class III item even more difficult.
We need to stop this totally unnecessary rule change.
EM John Pierce has put together a web page that explains the urgency of contacting BATFE, provides sample cut-and-paste text, and makes it a snap to respond to the proposal.
Here is the link to John's web page:
It?s time to comment on ATF?s disastrous proposed rulemaking | The Law Office of John Pierce, Esq.
The Obama administration, via the BATFE, has proposed a new rule governing applications by legal entities such as trusts and corporations to make and transfer National Firearms Act (NFA) firearms. The proposed rule would significantly complicate transfers of NFA firearms to legal entities. The comment period is coming to a close Monday at 11:59 pm and this is your last opportunity to comment. Comment here: Regulations.gov
Time is almost up on contacting the BATFE on a proposed change to the rules for Class III items (machine guns, silencers, short barreled rifles, etc.) The proposed rule change could make the already difficult task of getting a tax stamp to purchase a Class III item even more difficult.
We need to stop this totally unnecessary rule change.
EM John Pierce has put together a web page that explains the urgency of contacting BATFE, provides sample cut-and-paste text, and makes it a snap to respond to the proposal.
Here is the link to John's web page:
It?s time to comment on ATF?s disastrous proposed rulemaking | The Law Office of John Pierce, Esq.
Thanks for the links, I just submitted mine and spread the word.
How long is the average wait for getting tax stamps? I've submitted 3 applications beginning 10 months ago and haven't received the first stamp yet.
How long is the average wait for getting tax stamps? I've submitted 3 applications beginning 10 months ago and haven't received the first stamp yet.
Well it is no longer open for comment, guess I missed my chance. I have been waiting 6 months on a form 3 and still no word.
Thanks to you guys, I did get my comment on file. I vote early and often. I am on the list to receive early ballots as I'm on the road a lot and don't know if I'll be able to show up on Election Day. Absentee voters have a higher participation rate than regular voters and elected officials know that. I leverage that. When 14% of the registered voters turn out, I'm part of that 14%. I leverage that. I show up, in uniform, to drop letters off at my officials office. Three ways to vote as I see it. 1. Election Day. 2. Pestering the office holder with letters, phone calls, emails, etc. 3. Money, PAC, lobby group, etc. 
on #3.
Now, I'm just waiting for the shoe to drop. Will it be a slipper or a heavy boot?
on #3.Now, I'm just waiting for the shoe to drop. Will it be a slipper or a heavy boot?
THIS IS FROM THE ATF PDF: (RULE 41P)
https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/f...uctive-devices-and-certain-other-firearms.pdf
Summary:
The Department of Justice proposes amending Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) regulations that concern the making or transferring of a Firearm under the National Firearms Act (NFA). The proposed changes include: defining the term " responsible person", as used in reference to a trust. partnership. association. company. or corporation; requiring "responsible persons" of such legal entities to submit, inter alia, photographs and fingerprints, as well as a law enforcement certificate, when the legal entity files an application to make an NFA firearm or is listed as the transferee on an application to transfer an NFA firearm;
As dealers we are being told very little about this rule change. Only thing I can tell you is that its going to happen!! We are all guessing end of February sometime in March there we be a cut off date. Anything before this date will be accepted without finger print cards, passport photo's and CLEO signature.. Anything after the cut off date will have to have finger print cards, passport photo's, CLEO signature ...
If you have paperwork that has already been submitted, NO you will not have to resubmit it with fingerprint cards, ECT... Transfer times are taking about 9 months right now but with this pending rule change and the 2014 Shot Show next month, I expect them to be 12 + months after January..
https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/f...uctive-devices-and-certain-other-firearms.pdf
Summary:
The Department of Justice proposes amending Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) regulations that concern the making or transferring of a Firearm under the National Firearms Act (NFA). The proposed changes include: defining the term " responsible person", as used in reference to a trust. partnership. association. company. or corporation; requiring "responsible persons" of such legal entities to submit, inter alia, photographs and fingerprints, as well as a law enforcement certificate, when the legal entity files an application to make an NFA firearm or is listed as the transferee on an application to transfer an NFA firearm;
As dealers we are being told very little about this rule change. Only thing I can tell you is that its going to happen!! We are all guessing end of February sometime in March there we be a cut off date. Anything before this date will be accepted without finger print cards, passport photo's and CLEO signature.. Anything after the cut off date will have to have finger print cards, passport photo's, CLEO signature ...
If you have paperwork that has already been submitted, NO you will not have to resubmit it with fingerprint cards, ECT... Transfer times are taking about 9 months right now but with this pending rule change and the 2014 Shot Show next month, I expect them to be 12 + months after January..
My new bet is they don't change a damn thing. Suspect they will see their proposal is stupid, unworkable, unenforceable and won't stand up in court.
This is a bureaucracy, they are not accountable to a court in setting rules.... especially rules as minor as this. There is already legislation authorizing them to write these rules. There is not any mechanism to prevent bureaucracies from writing stupid rules. Stupid rules are the norm.
BO didn't get what he wanted on gun control, so he is doing this to "f" with us and show that he can get something done. Which means that yes, it will come to pass. Very seldom do bureaucrats get direct orders from the President of the United State on rulemaking. They either change the rules or lose their jobs, so they will change the rules. The best we can hope for is a grace period for trusts already in the hands of the NFA.
BTW... to the OP... if you entitle a thread "News about XYZ" and don't have news about XYZ, but a question mark or make it a question like "Does anyone have any news about XYZ?" I clicked through assuming you had news. You don't. You have a question. Let someone who actually has news post news.
This is required reading for everyone involved with NFA items. Especially the legal brief that follows the letter, in which an absolutely compelling argument is made that the BATFE has been violating the GCA since it instituted the CLEO requirement. The references to the specific and highly restrictive laws regarding the revealing of taxpayer identification or other information should bury the CLEO requirement completely, for everyone.
I am very glad that the NFATCA did the legal homework, which sets the stage for a lawsuit against the BATFE that could change the complexion of the NFA entirely.
Please read it and voice your support to your Congresscritters.
Altnews, thanks for posting this information. It is an informative read and gives us some hope that justice may prevail.
Man, let's hope it goes away, but if it doesn't, I hope to have much of my NFA purchases in the works this year. I may have to get a couple items early, but hey, if it prevents the bullshit it's way worth it.
Great, the nfatca, the douchebags turncoats that started this.
No new news expected for a few months.
Right now, submit paperwork under the old rules.
No new news expected for a few months.
Right now, submit paperwork under the old rules.
Actually, if you read their response to this allegation, they didn't. They were addressing something else entirely and the BATFE hijacked their case to use it as a vehicle for this proposed change. Of course there is the old saw about letting sleeping dogs lie....
Well, I had hurried up and paid for a trust and 1st can just to get it in before the 12/9 date, quite greatly against my short term financial interests, but I'm glad at least my wait starts from then rather than now or later. I guess I'll have it--a SpecWar 762--paid off before I get it and maybe get a couple more in the meantime before it arrives.
Does anyone other than me really, REALLY hate being held hostage by these bureaucrats?
Does anyone other than me really, REALLY hate being held hostage by these bureaucrats?
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Well if you read the petition they submitted to the ATF in, you would see they did:
Mark Barnes Outside Counsel to NFATCA, We request that
• 479.63 and 479.85 be amended to require photographs and fingerprints of persons responsible for directing the legal entity;
• Requiring a statement concerning the applicant’s nonimmigrant alien status similar to 27 CFR 478.44(a)(1)(ii);
• Adding instructions similar to those on ATF Forms 7 regarding applications for Federal Firearms Licenses; and
• Eliminate the requirement for CLEO approval of Forms 1 and 4 for natural persons, and require notification to CLEOs for all Form 1 and Form 4 applicants.
So simply put, they threw trusts under the bus - wanted them to have to do photos & prints/BGC, as well as notify CLEO about NFA item. None of which they have to do now. So even if ATF had done EXACTLY what they wanted, LLC/Trust owners were getting screwed.
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Thanks for the post. I know it's impossible to know for sure, but the expected timetables would probably give a few folks a sigh of relief. All that said, order while ya can!
I wonder if anyone realized that every additional letter written to ATF would result in further delay to pending action.
If they had known, I wonder what would have occurred had we gotten 100,000 letters sent in. "ATF decides to spent next ten years responding to each objection, will amend laws by 2024"
Knowing the government it would have been "we are suspending applications at this time to devote all resources to replying to letters"
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