It was Ponzi scheme, There is no way he could sell at or below dealer and cover expenses.
It is important to note that not everyone on here is MIL, LE, or veteran. The 2K G3 thing gets thrown out irresponsibly as if its available to everyone and that's where shit gets lost in translation.
www.snipershide.com
ZCO does veteran pricing also. What I have gotten from this thread is. Atacr good scope. But with a ZCO you can see more detail at low light. Can't go wrong with either. But the 525 atacr is the worst atacr. Would be better with a 420 or 735 atacr. But ZCO has better glass.
I’d go 7-35 atacr or 4-20/5-27 ZCO
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Its easy. Buy a vortex cert from the EE for 100 bucks or less. Buy Razor for EO for 2100+100 cert. 2200 Razor (plus tax). The Black Razor is like 2450 with PRS discount, which is $40 a year. And there are sales a few times a year that make it an even better buy. Shits not hard.
Shits not hard but those are all extra steps not explained when people throw those types of numbers around. Why not just say the shit is 2200 if you do this, this, or this instead of making it sound like it's widely available at that price anywhere you look. I typically contact retailers and see what they can do for me especially if am a returning costumer, but theres a lot of new shooters on here that might not know which channels to take.
I didn't know about the patent. That's good info. I already have a razor and a SB. I will look up the kahles you mentioned. My only NF is an NX8 so was curious about glass difference in atacr vs zco. Have you had experience with atacr 420 and 735?
I owned a 5-25 ATACR and was not a fan. Dont have time on the newer 420 but have used the old 4-16x42, which was a good gas gun scope. The 735 has much better glass than the 525 but it still lags behind all those I mentioned. You can get them used for 2500 all day, but i think the gen 3 razor is a better optic for the money (both made in Japan). All 3 are better than the NX8, which has lessor glass and DOF issues from packing so much into such a small package. I also hate the spinning occular on the NF. Its a dumb design that needs to die.
I think he got in good with Vortex early in their formation and probally got better pricing due his vollume/early adopter. Loyalty is worth alot to a family business as they are starting out. I bought alot of scopes from him over the years and was one of the ones who was burned in the last buy. Thankfully my bank and vortex made me whole.
I orignally was considering the 525 atacr. But after feedback I am no longer considering. So I got something from this. Nightforce is now on expertvoice for veterans, so you can get them new for 2500 now. Pricing was secret but now its advertised on expertvoice. My orginal post was I can get the DMR for 1200, the ATACR was around 1800 for 525, but now I am considering the 420 because it is a cross over gun. ZCO still gives statement of not to disclose pricing. But ZCO was the largest jump in price and I was curious if you get that much more with the jump in price if you compare say a 420 atacr and the 420 zco. I am no longer considering the DMR.
I had the 4-20 atacr. I didn’t feel it was a jump in glass over the 4-16 it replaced. Nothing I noticed anyways. The ZCO 527 is a definite step up from the 4-20 atacr. The ZCO 4-20 is supposed to be even better but I haven’t looked through one. My 4-20 did tunnel a bit as well. Think it was more of a 5.5-20
I wouldn’t necessarily say my ZCO420 is “better” than my 527, from a performance standpoint. I do prefer the 420, but I think so many good things are said about the shorter & smaller objective 420 because it hangs so well with the bigger/longer scopes - not necessarily because the 420 actually outperforms the 527.
After more use, the only things I'll add to the above are:
Oh,I didn't know that. Thanks . How does this glass compare the a Zeiss S3 6-36x56mm
Your #9 is the reason that I am considering the Atacr 7-35. I often must shoot in strong mirage conditions.
Also, I infer from your posts that the NF 7-35 is less dark from 30-35x than the G3 is from 30-36x?
The G3 has better glass but the S3 is also good choice. Glass is good and the amount of elevation travel is very impressive.
In the multiple units of each I compared I thought the S3 glass edged out the G3 but they are close. Too close to use it as a deciding factor.
This might be ok for me as I’m shooting smallish rodents (prairie dogs). At 450 yds they can be a bitch to pick out against their terrain.
My NX8 4-32 also has this reticle, and it’s even thicker than the 7-35 NF (.36 vs .33mils).
I bought an NX8 last year. For the price it is not a bad scope. I prefer my SB, the DT turrets are pretty cool. It sits on a desert tech SRS A2 so the gun needed a short 320 scope. I may have gotten a exception but the glass in my V6 5-30 is cystal clear. Better than the SB and right there with a TT I looked through. Sunny day comparison. If the V6 glass is that good in other scopes and I didnt just get a exception I would consider an s5. But I heard a guy saying his had issues holding zero. That is what is so hard about picking a new scope. I do not mind spending the money but I want to make sure it checks all the boxes, and from experience you usally have to buy 2 different models to check all the boxes.
Thanks for listing out your experience. That helps give more insight. I started this post to get thoughts on a mid mag scope. The gun I am putting it on is a 308 with a 20 inch barrel. I think a 735 atacr would be to much for this gun. I could move some scopes around and put the atacr on a different gun. Do you have any comparisons of the 420 Atacr and 525 atacr. I would like the 420 Atacr but the 525 is less than a hundred bucks difference and you get 5 more magnification. But if someone could tell me the 420 has much better glass and more forgiving parallax id go the 420 direction. Most people have been saying the 525 sucks compared to the 735.
Lots of scopes will look similar if you’re just taking a peak on a sunny day. If your V6 is on par with a Tangent, that Tangent probably needs serviced. Take the time to set up diopters, put them in challenging lighting conditions or mirage at distance, and you’ll have a much better idea of what’s what.
I've never used a 4-20 ATACR so I can't comment. The 525 does suck compared to the 735, it's basically a different product line. I can't think of another scope that deviates so far in quality from where it should fall within its specific product line.
Wow, that's quite a complete low-light analysis! Bravo!@carbonbased I've never taken my G3R out in last light before, as it's just not a hunting scope for me. Vortex clearly designed the G3R for field matches & they really nailed it, especially considering the price point.
Mostly clear skies, spotted clouds. Both scopes @ 35x magnification only, ATACR has a sunshade, G3R does not. Observing tree limbs/bark, grass, barbed wire @ 700 yards, time from sunset:
-40min
735 ATACR resolving details slightly better.
G3R beginning to lose contrast but still fairing pretty well.
-20min
735 ATACR still resolving details on objects that are lit by ambient light and unlit in the shadows. Individual tree leaves remain distinct, even in shadows.
G3R has noticeably lost contrast, more difficult to observe tree bark & barbed wire in shadowed areas under trees. Tree leaves beginning to blur together.
-10min
735 ATACR largely same as above. Individual blades of unshadowed grass distinguishable.
G3R has lost significant contrast, warmth/yellows gone, image has greyed out. Tree leaves in shadows have blurred into larger masses, causing loss of depth perception in shadows. Shadowed barbed wire in front of unshadowed grass slightly more difficult to see, no dimension to wire perceivable (just a flat grey line). Unshadowed grass beginning to blur.
+0min
735 ATACR losing contrast, leaves in shadows beginning to blur/merge. Tree bark in shadows difficult to perceive, but some still slightly visible. Beginning to lose depth perception in shadowed areas. Shadowed barbed wire in front of unshadowed grass still visible, but no dimension to wire perceivable (just a flat grey line). Unshadowed grass beginning to blur.
G3R not doing so hot... shadowed tree leaves completely blurred/merged, no depth perception in shadows. Shadowed tree bark no longer visible. Some shadowed barbed wire in front of unshadowed grass no longer visible. Unshadowed grass blurred.
+10min
735 ATACR still resolving some of the shadowed tree bark. Noticeable loss of depth perception in shadowed areas. Would be able to see at least the outline of an animal in the shadows. Unshadowed grass mostly blurred.
G3R Woof. Shadowed areas very dark, no details, very few outlines. No detail in unshadowed grass. You could still make a clean shot on a target in the open, no question, but absolutely no chance of seeing a coyote sitting or deer laying down in the shadows.
+20min
735 ATACR shadowed areas too dark to see much of anything, only tree trunks. Could make a clean shot on target in the open.
G3R Shadowed areas completely dark, can't see anything. Would have difficulty distinguishing different kinds of motionless animals out in the open by shape alone. I would pass on any shot.
+30min
735 ATACR can barely resolve individual tree trunks, H-brace, & the white tops of T-posts. Although you could see the outline of an animal out in the open, I don't know that I'd be able to distinguish a calf from a coyote. Taking any shot would be unethical.
G3R no joke:
"shadowed areas" means open/unobstructed areas underneath trees with heavy leaf coverage and no direct light.
TLDR; the G3R loses a given level of resolution 10-15min before the 735 ATACR.
The only other 2 comparisons I'd like to make are shooting into the sun & spotting another shooter to see how well each resolves the impacts on plate & spall.
i jist do not think a 735 would look right on a 20 inch barreled rifle, but thanks for the info. really stinks 525 sucks, im curious about the 420, wonder if it sucks or the 416 atacr
Scope looks close to the length of the gun. I agree it doesn't look horrible. But for a crossover rifle I need something smaller. I have looked at some of the March scopes. If I can get more info on the 420 atacr I'll probably go that direction.
It's a little hard for me to explain, but I do prefer my 420 over my 527. Maybe there's a little sample variance too as I think the controls on my 420 are a little better. Optically, the 420 hangs so well with my 527 that it's pretty hard to tell a difference. Plus, I'm not a mag whore and rarely go over 18x, so that probably has something to do with it as well for me.I can't wait to run a ZC420 after running the fantastic ZC527
