Rifle Scopes NF ATACR vs Vortex Razor

RickyRodney

RickyRodney

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May 4, 2014
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#1
Hello,
Considering trying out a razor. Will it give up anything to a NF atacr? I have been totally satisfied with NF NXS And my friends new atacr is really nice. Just wanted to take in some community opinions on the comparison.
 
#2
You're going to get a lot of differing opinions on this. IMO they are both very similar and you will be very happy with either. Vortex is heavier, NF is more expensive. I like the vortex locking turrets and reticles.
 
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#4
I had a razor 2, great scope especially for the money. If locking turrets are very important to you then get the razor. I personally now have an ATACR 7-35. I would like locking turrets, but I’ve never had mine move accidentally. And I really prefer how NF marks the full mil and half mil values, makes dialing much faster.
 
#5
Glass is comparable. The Vortex costs less & has more features. It weighs a bit more. You can get NF in black. The NF occular rotates with magnification changes (bugs some people). NF now has the Mil-C reticle. The Vortex warranty is probably less hassel & a quicker turnaround for catastrophic failure or damage. Decisions, decisions.....o_O
 
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#6
Both are good scopes of roughly comparable quality. Start by choosing the reticle that works for you. IF you want a tree reticle, Vortex is a very compelling choice. With turrets, I am comfortable with both.

It also matters which gun you put it on. For something not too heavy, ATACR F1 4-16x42 is an excellent choice. For a heavier gun, weight does not matter as much.

ILya
 
#7
I just recently got the 7-35 ATACR in Mil-c and I really enjoy it, with that said if I had to sell every scope I own and only keep one it would be the Gen2 Razor. If Vortex could find a way to drop 10oz off of it, it would be the ideal scope in my opinion.
 
#9
Just to clarify, you're comparing the ATACR f1 5-25 to the razor hd ii 4.5-27, correct?
The ATACR f1 is a totally different design from the ATACR.

If I recall, they both come from the same factory in Japan. I highly doubt anyone can tell the difference in glass quality if you compare them back to back in a blind test.
The Nightforce has tighter quality control in the assembly process.
The Vortex has a more comprehensive warranty.
The Vortex has slightly higher mag range.
The price difference is more or less about 500$ apart.
They're both very similar to each other.

I'd personally go with the ATACR, unless you like the Razor reticle better.

I'd take the Razer AMG or a SB 5-25 over both of them though.
 
#10
I’ve had both of the Gen 2 Razors and sold the 3-18 to move up to the 4.5-27 and sold the 4.5-27 to buy a Atacr with the milr reticle. The glass in both are great with the NF being just very slightly better however, unless you’re using it for birding, then the Vortex will do great. The time that you need really good glass is shooting small steel after a lot of the paint has been knocked off against a darker background. That was why moved up to the Vortex from a Bushnell ERS. The reason I went to the Atacr was for a heavier reticle. The Gen 2 Razor has a very thin reticle however I like the controls on the Razor so much that I’ve recently purchased another 3-18 from the PX section here. The things I like better on the Razor is the 10 mil turrets. The Atacr has 12. Seems like kind of an odd number but works fine. However I do like the reticle, lighter weight and the locking diopter of the Atacr. Both are great scopes and have excellent glass.
 
#11
Of course it's best to never need support in the first place.....but I suggest you call the support phone number for all the mfgs your considering. Envision in your own head, you just finished a local match, and have a significant event for the optic in the next 10-14 days. Ask what your expectation should be as a customer in getting your optic back.
 
#12
RickyRodney said:
Hello,
Considering trying out a razor. Will it give up anything to a NF atacr? I have been totally satisfied with NF NXS And my friends new atacr is really nice. Just wanted to take in some community opinions on the comparison.
Click to expand...
When I was researching my scope for my custom I was torn between NF ATACR and Vortex Razor. In my opinion, I felt the NF ATACR was better for hunting, and the Vortex was better for competition. Are you looking at a first focal plane (FFP) NF ATACR or a second focal plane (SFP)? I am a turret kind-of-guy so I prefer the SFP for the slightly lower price. My rig was for hunting and NF produced a video where they threw the scope around and it held zero, so I decided to go with it. To sum this up, I would consider what you want to use it for before deciding.
 
#14
Fursniper said:
Glass is comparable. The Vortex costs less & has more features. It weighs a bit more. You can get NF in black. The NF occular rotates with magnification changes (bugs some people). NF now has the Mil-C reticle. The Vortex warranty is probably less hassel & a quicker turnaround for catastrophic failure or damage. Decisions, decisions.....o_O
Click to expand...
Which features, specifically, does the Vortex have over the ATACR?
 
#16
Even though I hate these sort of threads more than anything in the world, I always end up biting... Ive had quite a few of each (15+ ATACR scopes and at least 10 Gen 2 Razors with a ton of PSTs here and there), so ive been able to nit pick on each.

Glass - Its a wash honestly, both are wonderful quality and very bright. I see my steel target at 1 mile plain as day through either my 5-25 ATACR or my 7-35 ATACR, and the furthest I used the Razor stuff was 1100 yards, which also didn't have any issues

Weight - Any way you compare them, the Razor stuff is always quite a bit heavier than the NF stuff (5-25 ATACR is 38 oz and 4-27 Razor is 48oz, or 4-16 ATACR is 30 oz and 3-18 Razor is 46 oz). If youre sitting on a bench or don't carry your rifle, it likely isn't an issue... if you do, 1 pound of weight adds up quickly, especially if you have a lighter rifle.

Features - While they are all similar for the most part, NF does edge out Vortex on some simple things that will cost you money with the Razor.
*PTL (Power Throw Lever) is standard equipment on the Nightforce with a very attractive knob that can be installed on the mag ring
*Nightforce has a much better (in my opinion) Zero stop setup that can be changed at any time, and much easier to adjust
*Nightforce includes high quality rotating Tenebraex flip up covers
*Nightforce has greater Parallax adjustment with the new 7-35 going from 10m to 900m before going to infinity
*Nightforce has a better digital illumination setup with dual colors and extremely easy to use power/intensity settings

Warranty - Ive had to send back two Razor products and 4 Viper PST products for factory defects not caused by me, or any sort of inflicted damage, with two of them being broken out of the box and going right back. I have yet to personally see a Nightforce scope (over 25 owned between ATACR and NXS) ever fail or need any sort of repair. In Vortex's defense, they were very prompt about sending either a new scope, or repairing the old one, however it is quite disappointing to get the scope in and plan on going to the range, only to find it has to go back for repair first. While Vortex may have the industry leading warranty, the best one, in my opinion, is the one I don't have to use.

Price - You get what you pay for. Nightforce isn't cheap, they don't offer discounts, however if you compare some of the above features they include, that the Vortex does not, it does bring the price closer on the two. I am not discounting the quality of the Gen 2 Razor stuff as those are fantastic scopes with no real competition in their price range, however I do feel the Nightforce easily justifies their pricing difference, especially when comparing the optics that are more expensive, yet may offer significantly less.

Quality - As some have stated, and I will repeat, the Nightforce quality control procedures are pretty incredible, if not industry leading. They don't have "cheap" models or discount scopes to compete with lower end stuff, they have a significant amount of Military and LE contracts with their products, and as far as durability is concerned, there isn't a person on the planet that will question how tough they are, or their ability to withstand severe punishment, and still function at 100%.

Resale value - look through the ads on any forum and let that one speak for itself. Its very rare to see fire sales on Nightforce products.

With everything stated, I am still a Vortex fan and very much like their Gen 2 1-6, and would have no problem owning a Gen 2 4-27 (I think the 3-18 is a bit ridiculous in size and weight for the lower magnification it offers when the comparative market of the ATACR 4-16, Mark 6 3-18, and other mid range scopes are a pound or more less)... However, when given the choice between the two, I sold my Razor spotting scope and other Vortex products for Nightforce, and haven't looked back. Vortex and Nightforce may be the last two "innovative" companies left, who strive to give the public what they want, so I support either over the competition and honestly say you cant go wrong either way.
 
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#17
V-Ref said:
Warranty support process/response time, locking turrets, 10 mil vs 12 mil turrets, more forgiving eyebox, non-rotating ocular during mag adjustment, & price?
Click to expand...
Of the "facts" you listed, none are correct, and the rest are opinions, not "features".

First off - The Nightforce ATACR scopes have 12 mils per turret revolution, not 10.

Next - *Warranty support only matters when you have a broken scope... Please list when you last used the Nightforce warranty, and what broke, as well as response time and repair time.
*Locking turrets are available on the ATACR 4-16, if that makes or breaks the deal, it is your opinion that they are better or worse. I personally don't like locking turrets, but I also don't have any need for them to lock.
*Eyebox is in the eye of the beholder... personally I prefer the 5-25 and 7-35 ATACR over the Razor stuff, however I will state the significantly larger Razors are more forgiving than the smaller 4-16 ATACR... again though, opinions, not factual data.
*Non rotating components don't bother me, nor many others who own these scopes, so again, your opinion vs mine, not facts.
*Price? Mcdonalds will always be cheaper than Ruth's Chris Steak House.
 
#18
Vortex has a excellent warranty and its very well known. Nightforce also has a very good warranty but people don't talk about it much.

Hmmm.......


Other than that, I've got both and both are solid scopes. While the Razor is feature packed and a great design, the NF gives me that warm fuzzy feeling inside knowing that my optic isn't going to crap out on me.
 
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#19
wareagle700 said:
Vortex has a excellent warranty and its very well known. Nightforce also has a very good warranty but people don't talk about it much.

Hmmm.......


Other than that, I've got both and both are solid scopes. While the Razor is feature packed and a great design, the NF gives me that warm fuzzy feeling inside knowing that my optic isn't going to crap out on me.
Click to expand...

With my ATACR, if conserving ammo was a priority, I feel my optic could be used as a billy stick and remounted and track perfectly again. Tougher than owl sh*t. Not bashing vortex, never had a bad experience with either. I just get that same warm fuzzy feeling with the nf especially when I’m buying plane tickets/hotel rooms and registration fees to go shoot a match

It’s your money, buy whatever you want
 
#21
DrainTheSwamp2017 said:
With my ATACR, if conserving ammo was a priority, I feel my optic could be used as a billy stick and remounted and track perfectly again. Tougher than owl sh*t. Not bashing vortex, never had a bad experience with either. I just get that same warm fuzzy feeling with the nf especially when I’m buying plane tickets/hotel rooms and registration fees to go shoot a match

It’s your money, buy whatever you want
Click to expand...
The razor would make a better Billy club... 48oz!
 
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#22
Fenix Mike said:
Of the "facts" you listed, none are correct, and the rest are opinions, not "features".

First off - The Nightforce ATACR scopes have 12 mils per turret revolution, not 10.
Click to expand...

Uhh, yeah...that's what he said. The Vortex has 10 mil turrets and the NF has 12.

The main draw to the Vortex for me was the price with their military program which allowed me to afford a scope in a class otherwise above my price range. I do prefer their reticle over the NF, though both are very good.
 
#23
Thunderhorse said:
Uhh, yeah...that's what he said. The Vortex has 10 mil turrets and the NF has 12.

The main draw to the Vortex for me was the price with their military program which allowed me to afford a scope in a class otherwise above my price range. I do prefer their reticle over the NF, though both are very good.
Click to expand...
Really? All I see is "10 mil vs 12 mil turrets" stated in his argument, when he was comparing what the Vortex had over the nightforce specifically, so unless he was bragging about it only having 10 mil turrets, it appears he was listing it as a reason to buy Vortex.

As far as Mil/LE pricing, both companies offer a program. The percentage off Leupold and Vortex are both a lot of fluff due to the EXTREME difference between MSRP and MAP pricing (Claimed "manufacturer retail" vs what they are sold at through a vendor), where as Nightforce sells for very close to MSRP and doesn't have an inflated number that no one in the universe uses. In the end, the discount is basically the same across the board as I have used the program with all of them. NF also offers at least 5 reticles on their ATACR scopes depending what setup you want.
 
#24
Fenix Mike

It appears as though you took my post personally? Are you involved with product development or associated with NF?

I think my ATACR F1 is a great optic, definitely top shelf.

I'd rather not get into warranty/reliability issues, but I do have personal experience with both companies.

10 mil turrets are easier to navigate (for me) once you start going past the first turn.

Owning both brands & models mentioned in the thread and having used both repair processes I thought I'd offer my opinion.

Do you own or have repair experience with both companies?
 
#25
Fenix Mike said:
Of the "facts" you listed, none are correct, and the rest are opinions, not "features".

First off - The Nightforce ATACR scopes have 12 mils per turret revolution, not 10.

Next - *Warranty support only matters when you have a broken scope... Please list when you last used the Nightforce warranty, and what broke, as well as response time and repair time.
*Locking turrets are available on the ATACR 4-16, if that makes or breaks the deal, it is your opinion that they are better or worse. I personally don't like locking turrets, but I also don't have any need for them to lock.
*Eyebox is in the eye of the beholder... personally I prefer the 5-25 and 7-35 ATACR over the Razor stuff, however I will state the significantly larger Razors are more forgiving than the smaller 4-16 ATACR... again though, opinions, not factual data.
*Non rotating components don't bother me, nor many others who own these scopes, so again, your opinion vs mine, not facts.
*Price? Mcdonalds will always be cheaper than Ruth's Chris Steak House.
Click to expand...

Just now reading this post. Sounds like you're well versed.

OP, lots of great choices, I'd get your hands on as many models as you can...as you can see these opinions are very individual...what's best for me is obviously different for FM...and likely will be for you.

It wasn't that long ago the stratification was MK4>NXS>S&B>Hendsolt

Hard to go wrong now. Best to get a turret/reticle system, and get good at using it vs sweating optic envy. This space is going to continue to evolve and innovate.
 
Last edited:
#26
V-Ref said:
Fenix Mike

It appears as though you took my post personally? Are you involved with product development or associated with NF?

I think my ATACR F1 is a great optic, definitely top shelf.

I'd rather not get into warranty/reliability issues, but I do have personal experience with both companies.

10 mil turrets are easier to navigate (for me) once you start going past the first turn.

Owning both brands & models mentioned in the thread and having used both repair processes I thought I'd offer my opinion.

Do you own or have repair experience with both companies?
Click to expand...
I didn't take it personally at all, I am just trying to separate opinion from factual differences. As someone with the most severe of Gun ADHD issues, I go through things quite often, which gives me the ability to comment on my personal experiences with each, as well as give factual representations of actual differences between optics. If you have had issues with a Nightforce scope which required repair, that is definitely a factual problem, and one worth mentioning. I feel the differences you mentioned aren't exactly "features" that would make one scope better than the other, where as they are more of specific characteristics of each scope that you like. To each their own, and if it wasn't for NF coming out with the 1-8 ATACR, id still have a Razor 1-6 on my Scar 17.
I apologize if my response came off as aggressive, it wasn't the intention, and being at work at 0500 on a sunday before my coffee kicks in may have had something to do with that :)
 
#27
Fenix Mike said:
Really? All I see is "10 mil vs 12 mil turrets" stated in his argument, when he was comparing what the Vortex had over the nightforce specifically, so unless he was bragging about it only having 10 mil turrets, it appears he was listing it as a reason to buy Vortex.

As far as Mil/LE pricing, both companies offer a program. The percentage off Leupold and Vortex are both a lot of fluff due to the EXTREME difference between MSRP and MAP pricing (Claimed "manufacturer retail" vs what they are sold at through a vendor), where as Nightforce sells for very close to MSRP and doesn't have an inflated number that no one in the universe uses. In the end, the discount is basically the same across the board as I have used the program with all of them. NF also offers at least 5 reticles on their ATACR scopes depending what setup you want.
Click to expand...

Question:
Fenix Mike said:
Which features, specifically, does the Vortex have over the ATACR?
Click to expand...

Answer:
V-Ref said:
Warranty support process/response time, locking turrets, 10 mil vs 12 mil turrets, more forgiving eyebox, non-rotating ocular during mag adjustment, & price?
Click to expand...

Seems pretty easy to understand
 
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#29
Thunderhorse said:
Question:


Answer:


Seems pretty easy to understand
Click to expand...
Sure, as he stated in his last post, he prefers the 10 mil over the 12 mil, and sees that as a benefit, which is now clarified. As I read it, he was stating the Razor had 12, and the NF had 10, because in my mind, more mils per revolution is better since I shoot to a mile and go to 16-17 mils regularly.
 
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#30
Fenix Mike said:
Sure, as he stated in his last post, he prefers the 10 mil over the 12 mil, and sees that as a benefit, which is now clarified. As I read it, he was stating the Razor had 12, and the NF had 10, as in my mind, more mils per revolution is better since I shoot to a mile and go to 16-17 mils regularly.
Click to expand...

He posted factual differences between the scopes, whether those are pluses or minuses to you is subjective. That they are differences is not subjective but factual, as they are in fact different.

They were listed in their respective order. Some find it easier to have everything broken into 10s, especially on a mil/mil optic, and more mils per revolution doesn't necessarily mean there is more adjustment built into the scope.

Both are good scopes though. I may have sprung for a NF if I had known they had a military program (before your post-thanks for that BTW), but I don't feel that I'll be at a disadvantage with the gen I Razor. Still not sure how I feel about the rotating ocular with scope caps though, I've never used one that was like that.
 
#31
FM regarding the warranty...not being illusive. Both companies made it right in the end, and support thier products solidly. But the responsiveness and timeframe were quite a bit different. That was my individual experience, one data point.

If your data card has 11.7, 9.8, 14.4, and 16.3 on it, and you have a time/positional stressor 10 mil turrets is easier for me.

0500 is early
 
#32
Thunderhorse said:
He posted factual differences between the scopes, whether those are pluses or minuses to you is subjective. That they are differences is not subjective but factual, as they are in fact different.

They were listed in their respective order. Some find it easier to have everything broken into 10s, especially on a mil/mil optic, and more mils per revolution doesn't necessarily mean there is more adjustment built into the scope.
Click to expand...

The original statement made was "The Vortex costs less & has more features." While you are correct, he did list differences between the two, and opinions on each, I don't see those as "features", but agree to disagree on how we see things.

I understand mils per revolution has nothing to do with overall elevation travel, however having owned scopes back in the day with 6 mils per revolution (Leupold, Vortex PST, earlier NF), its a bit more tedious to make multiple rotations in my case, and I much prefer the more mils per turn. The Vortex Razor 1-6 is wonderful because of this, and why I had it on my Scar for so long, replacing the Leupold MK6 and MK8, as the Scar gets shot to 800m regularly as a 13 inch SBR and needs quite a bit dialed in.
 
#33
V-Ref said:
FM regarding the warranty...not being illusive. Both companies made it right in the end, and support thier products solidly. But the responsiveness and timeframe were quite a bit different. That was my individual experience, one data point.

If your data card has 11.7, 9.8, 14.4, and 16.3 on it, and you have a time/positional stressor 10 mil turrets is easier for me.

0500 is early
Click to expand...
300 win is pretty simple as my targets are 700m, 800m, 1000m and 1600m, its basically 4 mils, 5 mils, 7 mils and 15.5 mils. I wouldn't say 12 or 10 is any more difficult than the other, but either is better than 6 or less, where shifting back and forth on targets could be confusing without hitting the zero stop first and going back.
 
#34
Fenix Mike said:
300 win is pretty simple as my targets are 700m, 800m, 1000m and 1600m, its basically 4 mils, 5 mils, 7 mils and 15.5 mils. I wouldn't say 12 or 10 is any more difficult than the other, but either is better than 6 or less, where shifting back and forth on targets could be confusing without hitting the zero stop first and going back.
Click to expand...
So your vote is NF? .......?
 
#39
V-Ref said:
FM regarding the warranty...not being illusive. Both companies made it right in the end, and support thier products solidly. But the responsiveness and timeframe were quite a bit different. That was my individual experience, one data point.

If your data card has 11.7, 9.8, 14.4, and 16.3 on it, and you have a time/positional stressor 10 mil turrets is easier for me.

0500 is early
Click to expand...

I like mils because it’s a base 10 system, so I do like the fact that my turrets are also base 10. Not a deal breaker but I get where you are coming from.

As for comparing “warranty”, Vortex is almost like insurance, covering things like your own stupidity, negligence and even if you leave your rifle at your buddy’s and his house burns down. Whether or not that is a deciding factor is really an individual choose but they are apples to oranges.....
 
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#42
Max said:
I like mils because it’s a base 10 system, so I do like the fact that my turrets are also base 10. Not a deal breaker but I get where you are coming from.

As for comparing “warranty”, Vortex is almost like insurance, covering things like your own stupidity, negligence and even if you leave your rifle at your buddy’s and his house burns down. Whether or not that is a deciding factor is really an individual choose but they are apples to oranges.....
Click to expand...

This is the reason I support Nightforce so much... That scope is still in their SHOT booth and likely could be what saved my face from a 338 Lapua going kaboom. Not to say the razor couldn't do it, but I sure as heck don't want to find out!

4JcXiJf.jpg
 
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#43
Max said:
Oh and Vortex makes it more than clear that coating or painting your scope has no effect on the warranty. I wonder what NF policy is?
Click to expand...
No idea... never had an issue with a NF.

To quote the late Tommy Callahan III - "If you want me to take a dump in a box, and mark it guaranteed I will... I've got spare time."

Not to say that the Razor is junk, but as stated before, I like not having to ever use the warranty in the first place. That fancy autograph on each Nightforce scope showing it has been inspected makes me feel all warm and fuzzy... much more so than the few times ive had to box up my new Vortex scope and send it back for repair/replacement without having ever used it.
 
#44
Fenix Mike said:
This is the reason I support Nightforce so much... That scope is still in their SHOT booth and likely could be what saved my face from a 338 Lapua going kaboom. Not to say the razor couldn't do it, but I sure as heck don't want to find out!
Click to expand...
I think they spelled “We gave him a free replacement wrong”.....?
 
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#45
Fenix Mike said:
No idea... never had an issue with a NF.

To quote the late Tommy Callahan III - "If you want me to take a dump in a box, and mark it guaranteed I will... I've got spare time."

Not to say that the Razor is junk, but as stated before, I like not having to ever use the warranty in the first place. That fancy autograph on each Nightforce scope showing it has been inspected makes me feel all warm and fuzzy... much more so than the few times ive had to box up my new Vortex scope and send it back for repair/replacement without having ever used it.
Click to expand...

So your vote is NF?.......
 
#46
Max said:
So your vote is NF?.......
Click to expand...
Yes. I also drive a Toyota... Why you ask? Simple, instead of buying from the auto manufacturers that offer 7 year, 10 year, or even lifetime vehicle warranties that you will more than likely have to use at some point, I like knowing my truck just wont break in the first place. Piece of mind that I purchased the higher quality product, and not the one that said they will fix the cheaper one, no matter how many times it breaks.

You can keep dancing around this all you want. Im sure ive spent more with Vortex than the majority on this forum (the amount spent has 5 digits before the decimal, and starts with no less than a "2" as the first digit), but ive decided to spend my money with Nightforce for the majority of my products. If you search my name, you will see ive bought and sold numerous optics from various manufacturers because I like to try EVERYTHING before offering my opinions, or insight as to which I prefer and why. If the only thing you seek is a no questions asked warranty, then Vortex is clearly the answer, and I wont argue that.
 
#47
Well the scope 338 story is a nice anecdote but it is just that. There is absolutely no supporting data to the conclusion that it save this guys life. This is not the first 338 to blow up. The conclusions are marketing. In fact the rings breaking away at the right stress load, could have been the definitive factor.

Let’s assume that it did save his life. It well could have. There is absolutely no evidence provided to show that my wider & 10oz heavier (depending on what model NF, more) Razor Gen II would not have done the very same thing.......Any conclusion is simply more hyperbole.
 
Last edited:
#48
Max said:
Well the scope 338 story is a nice annectdote but it is just that. There is absolutely no supporting data to the conclusion that it save this guys life. This is not the first 338 to blow up. The conclusions are marketing. In fact the rings breaking away at the right stress load, could have been the definitive factor.

Let’s assume that it did save his life. It well could have. There is absolutely no evidence provided to show that my wider & 10oz heavier (depending on what model NF, more) Razor Gen II would not have done the very same thing.......Any conclusion is simply more hyperbole.
Click to expand...
that is MY scope off MY rifle. I also have the video of it. It ripped the base off the rifle with the rings still attached to it, blew a 2 inch hole in the bottom of the scope and launched the assembly 40 yards away where I had to find it.
 
#50
Fenix Mike said:
that is MY scope off MY rifle. I also have the video of it. It ripped the base off the rifle with the rings still attached to it, blew a 2 inch hole in the bottom of the scope and launched the assembly 40 yards away where I had to find it.
Click to expand...
Exactly. And this post is what we know to be fact. The rest is conjecture and marketing hyperbole.
 
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